Magnetite's internal struggle

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Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:26 am

I'll probably get flamed for this, but what is the point of having an open ended ending, and a story that people could talk about, and a year later, they just spell everything out for people via DLC? I agree on a lot of stuff regarding IT, but I still think they should leave some mystery and wonder in there. Kind of how they were initially going to leave the Reaper's origins up to debate, then they spelled it out for people.

Yes, having Shepard actually defeat the Reapers for real once he wakes up provides "closure".

As one guy put it, he thought that he was getting a game about saving the galaxy and putting an end to the Reaper threat, but instead, he got a game where it's the ultimate battle for one man's soul. Or the soul of organic life.

Or another guy who was worrying about whether IT was going to be true or not, then his post is kind of an interesting debate about IT. Especially his last point at the end of the blog.

What's the point of speculation if everything is going to get spelled out a year later via DLC or future games? There'd be nothing to speculate about if everything is going to get confirmed or spelled out for people via DLC.

Uncertain Unsure :*tinfoil*:
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by BleedingUranium on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:52 am

I'd say it's because it's not so much about people speculating about ME3 until the end of time, as it's an attempt to indoctrinate their own fanbase. For there to be a payoff they have to reveal to the community that they got them.

And because the Reapers are still there killing everyone.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:59 am

How would people react to the fact they were sold a game without an actual ending (back in March last year)? If this last DLC is the real ending?
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by DSharrah on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:27 am

magnetite wrote:How would people react to the fact they were sold a game without an actual ending (back in March last year)? If this last DLC is the real ending?

Depends...if its done well, than I won't mind at all. For me that is part of the allure of the ME Universe, I always want more - it always finds a way to pull me back in. In a way, I don't want the story to end - I want every detail of the characters that I have grown to love confirmed. I don't want to have to head canon that Liara and Shep have their blue babies, or that Geth and the Quarians continue to live a peaceful co-existence, or that the Krogan are able to join the galaxay as a productive member, etc., etc., etc.

It was one of the reasons that I liked the EC - even though I never felt like it answered all my questions or gave me the closure that I needed, it was alot better than what we initially got. And if an "ending" DLC can continue to improve the end of the game - I am all about that!
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:44 am

For me that is part of the allure of the ME Universe, I always want more - it always finds a way to pull me back in. In a way, I don't want the story to end - I want every detail of the characters that I have grown to love confirmed. I don't want to have to head canon that Liara and Shep have their blue babies, or that Geth and the Quarians continue to live a peaceful co-existence, or that the Krogan are able to join the galaxay as a productive member, etc., etc., etc.

Do you mean a "Return of the King" kind of ending?
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by DSharrah on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:51 am

magnetite wrote:
For me that is part of the allure of the ME Universe, I always want more - it always finds a way to pull me back in. In a way, I don't want the story to end - I want every detail of the characters that I have grown to love confirmed. I don't want to have to head canon that Liara and Shep have their blue babies, or that Geth and the Quarians continue to live a peaceful co-existence, or that the Krogan are able to join the galaxay as a productive member, etc., etc., etc.

Do you mean a "Return of the King" kind of ending?

Sure...or even like DA:O's epilogue slides. The point being more about my voracious appetite for the ME Universe...as long as it expands the universe in a meaningful way, I am more than happy to consume it. Especially when it comes to the games...I have bought every single piece of story DLC and never once did I dismiss it with a claim of this should have been in the original game. That part just doesn't worry me.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:55 am

This guy brings up a good point regarding the Return of the King type of ending (if that's what we get with the final DLC).
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by DSharrah on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:08 am


True enough. And for the record, I believe IT is the most valid interpertation - and because of this I really don't have a problem with the way that the game "ended". But I do feel like there is an enormous opportunity to take advantage of with IT - and I hope that Bioware sees the potential it can have for the story and can deliver a reveal in a way that still blows the minds of the staunchest IT supporters.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:29 am

I'd rather have a mind-blowing ending of epic proportions (IT) that would be hailed as the greatest ending in recent video game history, than an ending that spells everything out for me. My two cents.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by DSharrah on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:31 am

magnetite wrote:I'd rather have a mind-blowing ending of epic proportions (IT) that would be hailed as the greatest ending in recent video game history, than an ending that spells everything out for me. My two cents.

I get that...but don't know if they have to be mutually exclusive. For me, what's best for the franchise it what works best for me.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:42 am

I'd say because they wanted to pull a really cool stunt in order to give us fourth game in the series.

It's a publicity stunt.

Everybody thought Shepard was over.

Surprise!

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:41 am

Or better yet, surprise, reapers are still here!

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:19 am

Magnetite, here's how it is. The ending is the ending. It will be forever that. A battle for one man's soul. And no DLC will ever change that.
No amount of additional pew-pew and chit-chat will harm or change that. Proven by the EC.

And besides, you said it yourself - they didn't want to explore the origins of the reapers, leaving it a mystery. And they didn't - in the core game. In DLC however - if you're game for that and willing to pay - why not? Hence the leviathan.

They got a lot of criticism for their handle of ME2 DLCs - while they were awesome - they had too many crucial plot points. And without them - the story felt incomplete.

So here's what you need to know, before getting yourself all worked up about the upcoming DLC. ME3's story is complete. everything you need is in the core game.

However if you really like your expirience - you can expand it through DLCs, and they have been of excellent quality for ME3 so far. Top notch. (no sarcasm)

. You want an additional squadmate complete with interesting recruitment, more awesome squadbanter and lively normandy interractions between the crew? Purchase From Ashes.

. The ending is too brief and abrupt for you and FOB farewells were not enough? Also, you think it is too bleak and depressing? Download the EC and knock yourself out. Comes complete with rainbows and sunshine, and is not some funfiction and headcanon, offically made by bioware. comes free.

. You think that the game became too straight forward and lacks mystery and the element of being on a quest? Leviathan is just what you need.

. You feel that the games combat became too easy and uninteresting and miss the feel of ME2's stand alone loyalty missions, where each was a story of it's own complete with unique extensive locations, unique challenging combat situations, it's own story arc, with extensive dialoge paths and choices at the end? You can have that all in Omega. (and whatever anyone says - Omega is awesome)

. ME3's diverse and extensive arsenal is not diverse and extensive enough for you? You can fix that with numereous weapon packs.

. Want more skins and costumes for your sqaudmates and for yourself, but don't want to rely on modders? here's alternative appearance packs.


Now if you consider all this, there is only two MAJOR things they can add as optional DLC, without it being more of the same.

1 - vehicle gameplay and free exploration.
2 - a huge, over the top boss battle. (the ending of the game is mental battle for one man's soul, but that doesn't mean that we can't have some good old-school-video-gamey fun, later on).

possibly an easter egg of an aftermath chilling in the beach bar Avenger's shaurma eating scene style.

Consider this - the 7 Harry Potter book. It really ended when Harry went into the forest to face Voldemort and let him strike him down. to later have a trippy hallucination talk with imaginary Dumbledore. That is the ending ME3 style. If you really think about it - everyhting that comes later in the book is filler. Events are already set in motion - stuff just happens, Harry has his stand off with Voldemort (where he destroys him with words and casts one spell - here's your DLC Boss Battle). But the whole point of harry's long speech is that he doesn't really have to do ANYTHING anymore - Voldemort is already done for and has nothing left. (he's already 6/7 dead by this point, just doesn't know it yet, and unable to harm anyone too)






Last edited by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:27 am

I'm probably getting too worked up as usual.

I tend to worry about stuff, and in the end everything works out fine.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:35 am

Magnetite - don't worry - it is already great, and everything is fine. And will be.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:13 am

Good point about Harry Potter, and that's exactly how I see it.

You'll have your import for ME4, regardless of any DLC they release. A 'reveal' DLC will only illustrate just what your choice meant... + a lot of friggin awesome scenes.

But plot wise, it won't be specifically necessary.. just very enticing to buy.

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by RavenEyry on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:34 am

I can see why some would feel the speculation is pointless with later clarification, and I know several people like the IT ending as it stands, but personally the game will never be complete for me without defeating the reapers.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:46 am

The thing is - ME3 is not about defeating the reapers. It is about fighting evil.
The reapers are an idea. The idea of some asshole, who thinks he knows better. It doesn't matter who created them. It doesn't ever matter if you destroy the actual reapers - if idea, the notion persists - then soon you'll create new reapers, or some other contraption.
To fight them - you have to fight then in yourself. And that is all that matters.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by RavenEyry on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:50 am

Please don't start demersal. Nothing you ever say will make me think leaving the whole reaper plot unresolved is a good thing and last time you preached it at me I got so pissed I quit BSN for a while.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:02 am

Which, you have to agree, in retrospect, was a very sane thing to do. The BSN is a nuthouse.

And they are not leaving this whole reaper thing unresolved - there will be another full ME game. There is no ME without reapers. (and no ME without Shepard, but that is another topic)

The thing is, what people often overlook, but what the game itself fully achknowledges - you really don't HAVE TO fight the reapers. Fighting the reapers is a choice.

As Liara points out - you can just as easily go someplace far, and live the rest of your life in peace. Fighting the reapers - is a life style. You can't just be done with it.
There isn't any killswitch or magic wand to just wave them away in a split second.
It is going to be a very long and gory war, that can last more than a lifetime, and which you have not even begin to actually fight.
But how can you even begin to fight, when you can't be sure of yourself? Of what you stand for? That is what ME3 is all about.

The war with the reapers have not even started yet. Mass Effect is all about getting ready for it.
And probably, taking earth back. But that remains to be seen.
I think it is a safe bet to assume that the years cycle will conclude in a huge battle for earth.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:10 am

demersel wrote:Which, you have to agree, in retrospect, was a very sane thing to do. The BSN is a nuthouse.

And they are not leaving this whole reaper thing unresolved - there will be another full ME game. There is no ME without reapers. (and no ME without Shepard, but that is another topic)

The thing is, what people often overlook, but what the game itself fully achknowledges - you really don't HAVE TO fight the reapers. Fighting the reapers is a choice.

As Liara points out - you can just as easily go someplace far, and live the rest of your life in peace. Fighting the reapers - is a life style. You can't just be done with it.
There isn't any killswitch or magic wand to just wave them away in a split second.
It is going to be a very long and gory war, that can last more than a lifetime, and which you have not even begin to actually fight.
But how can you even begin to fight, when you can't be sure of yourself? Of what you stand for? That is what ME3 is all about.

The war with the reapers have not even started yet. Mass Effect is all about getting ready for it.
And probably, taking earth back. But that remains to be seen.
I think it is a safe bet to assume that the years cycle will conclude in a huge battle for earth.
I disagree with this. While there is no Shepard without Reapers, and visaversa, Mass effect is not dependant on them. The Reaper War is simply Shepard's story, which means this game is the end of it. Bioware has been stating this since ME1 time, with such sincerity that I am convinced it is not a deception. Moreover, I don't want Mass Effect to solely be about Shepard and the Reapers. Bioware has created an immense scifi sandbox not seen since Star Wars itself, and i want them to explore it more. There's so many more stories to tell than just Shepard's here, so let's do what the scifi genre implores us to do: explore the unknown.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:13 am

Wrong. the war with the reapers is not shepard's story. the war with the reapers is Mass Effect. Don't believe me? Everything that has something to do with Mass Effect - has reapers in it in one form or another. Books, Comics, even Anime. And only games have Shepard in it. The War with the Reapers is not Shepard's story. It is Everyone's story in ME universe.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by CSSteele on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:17 am

Mass Effect is intimately tied to the Reapers story and their past. The Mass Relays, the Citadel... Sovereign said it himself back in ME1, we evolve along the paths they desire.

Now, can we derail that in 3 and have more Mass Effect without the Reapers? Yeah, I think the stage for that was set with Leviathan. Will Reapers still play a part? Most definitely, but they don't have to be the main thrust. The Legacy of the Reapers is Mass Effect, they can die off and still let us explore the universe/sandbox they created.

Something I definitely look forward to.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:22 am

demersel wrote:Wrong. the war with the reapers is not shepard's story. the war with the reapers is Mass Effect. Don't believe me? Everything that has something to do with Mass Effect - has reapers in it in one form or another. Books, Comics, even Anime. And only games have Shepard in it. The War with the Reapers is not Shepard's story. It is Everyone's story in ME universe.
I know the Reapers involve more than just Shepard, but Shepard is the focal point. To use Star Wars as an example: The Clone Wars was Anakin Skywalker's story, even though it also heavily involved other characters when Anakin was nowhere to be found. The entire galaxy revolved around the Clone Wars, but survived that event to tell dozens of other stories. Mass Effect is a universe capable of doing the same.
CSSteele wrote:Mass Effect is intimately tied to the Reapers story and their past. The Mass Relays, the Citadel... Sovereign said it himself back in ME1, we evolve along the paths they desire.

Now, can we derail that in 3 and have more Mass Effect without the Reapers? Yeah, I think the stage for that was set with Leviathan. Will Reapers still play a part? Most definitely, but they don't have to be the main thrust. The Legacy of the Reapers is Mass Effect, they can die off and still let us explore the universe/sandbox they created.

Something I definitely look forward to.
Exactly. Beautifully said, CSSteele.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:26 am

As Liara points out - you can just as easily go someplace far, and live the rest of your life in peace. Fighting the reapers - is a life style. You can't just be done with it.

Whoa, I must have missed that. Or forgot she said it.

I always thought future games would be something like you playing as some turian during the First Contact War.

Yeah, we know how it turned out in the books, but would be cool to experience it first hand. Kind of like LOTR. You read about it in the books, and you experience it for yourself in the movies.
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