Magnetite's internal struggle

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by windsurfing on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:06 am

Can I have a link please?
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:11 am

No you can't.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by windsurfing on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:12 am

demersel wrote:No you can't.

Is it because its from a questionable site?
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:14 am

I cannot either confirm it or deny it.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by windsurfing on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:17 am

I guess your joking? I found the site that's selling the app. So its an app for a small fee, I thought it was some free app or leaked content by someone.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:26 am

Yes it is an app for a small fee. And yes i was joking. )
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by umadcommander on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 am

i couldnt disagree more, i loathe the very idea of leaving it ambiguous. Just my 2 cents

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by BleedingUranium on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:44 am

umadcommander wrote:i couldnt disagree more, i loathe the very idea of leaving it ambiguous. Just my 2 cents

Same here. I want a "Return of the King" ending and all that goes with it, including not having future games. I like the idea that the story is over for good and everyone who survived lived happily ever after, with nothing galaxy shaking happening.

On the other hand, since we know we're getting another game, the only way I'd accept a player character other than Shepard is if we can choose from any race. Which seems very likely, since it's being made my the Montreal studio, who made MP, and all the unique playable characters of various races in it. It may even be the point of making the Geth individuals in ME3.

Human
Asari*
Salarian
Turian
Krogan
Quarian
Geth*
Drell
Batarian
Vorcha
Volus
Elcor**
Hanar**
Rachni**

*no gender selection
**maybe
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by umadcommander on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:55 am

BleedingUranium wrote:
umadcommander wrote:i couldnt disagree more, i loathe the very idea of leaving it ambiguous. Just my 2 cents

Same here. I want a "Return of the King" ending and all that goes with it, including not having future games. I like the idea that the story is over for good and everyone who survived lived happily ever after, with nothing galaxy shaking happening.

On the other hand, since we know we're getting another game, the only way I'd accept a player character other than Shepard is if we can choose from any race. Which seems very likely, since it's being made my the Montreal studio, who made MP, and all the unique playable characters of various races in it. It may even be the point of making the Geth individuals in ME3.

Human
Asari*
Salarian
Turian
Krogan
Quarian
Geth*
Drell
Batarian
Vorcha
Volus
Elcor**
Hanar**
Rachni**

*no gender selection
**maybe
romance as a geth? could be tricky to pull off Laughing

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by Eryri on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:05 pm

I'm afraid I would really prefer a reveal too.

While I can intellectually appreciate the idea of a forever ambiguous ending, ME3 as it stands is terribly unsatisfying on an emotional level.

There's simply no sense of climax. No thrill. No... fun.

Call me old fashioned, but I'd like a boss fight and an unashamedly happy ending for Shepard and crew. Dancing Voluses and all.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by windsurfing on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:34 pm

Eryri wrote:I'm afraid I would really prefer a reveal too.

While I can intellectually appreciate the idea of a forever ambiguous ending, ME3 as it stands is terribly unsatisfying on an emotional level.

There's simply no sense of climax. No thrill. No... fun.

Call me old fashioned, but I'd like a boss fight and an unashamedly happy ending for Shepard and crew. Dancing Voluses and all.

I agree, I think open endings are more fit for live action content where you are not going to be invested in the whole universe of that art, as in you control the effects in that universe.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:15 pm

There's no happy ending because nothing ends.

Name that game. ;)

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by windsurfing on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:18 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:There's no happy ending because nothing ends.

Name that game. ;)

Mass Defect 3?
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by clennon8 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:08 pm

I mostly just want the Bad Writing Theory to be disproven. So I can say "SEE? TOLD YOU SO!!!" to all the Synthesis groupies.

Is that so wrong?
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:23 pm


They also said we won't be getting bespoke endings with A, B and C choices but hey thats what we got, I thought I recalled them talking about upto 16 different endings.....

In ME2 Shepard can die after SM, yet ME3 you are forced to start with a new Shepard. Consequences of choices went right out the window.

Technically there was at least 16 different endings, if people see it as based off of EMS (up to 24 actually).

I think the whole choices affecting the ending may have been misleading. If people see the third game as the end, then your past choices have an impact. However, a lot of people that I've talked to keep seeing the last 5 minutes of the game as the ending, and nope, you don't see any previous choices have any impact (eg. save council, or destroy collector base).

Even though Bioware considers the third game as the end, and not the last 5 minutes.

They did say that previous choices would affect the war. With Mass Effect 3, the war is basically the whole game, so they were right on that. There was also past choices regarding DLC (eg. BDTS, Overlord), which did have an impact during the course of the game (Balak shows up or he doesn't. Legion mentions Overlord DLC. Dr. Archer and David show up, or they don't), but not during the ending itself.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by Restrider on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:48 pm

clennon8 wrote:I mostly just want the Bad Writing Theory to be disproven. So I can say "SEE? TOLD YOU SO!!!" to all the Synthesis groupies.

Is that so wrong?
Hey, here you are mixing two different things!

On the one side we have all the bitter literalists, who usually go with destroy/refuse (but also a few with the other endings). This group can be devided into:
1. Sees the merits of IT, but has lost hope.
2. Hates IT and everyone admitting its merits (these are usually the bitter trolls).

Then we have the pro-ending group that supports Control and/or Synthesis. They resent IT because it nullifies their preferred ending(s) - even though they may be against the themes of ME.

Personally, I'd like to rub it into the faces of the bitter trolls more than even the Synthesizers/Controllers.

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by BlueLogic on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:06 pm

clennon8 wrote:I mostly just want the Bad Writing Theory to be disproven. So I can say "SEE? TOLD YOU SO!!!" to all the Synthesis groupies.

Is that so wrong?

Exactly. While I can now appreciate the ending(s) in light of the IT, for many the ending of Mass Effect is the literal vision. Besides, if IT is true, we have yet to see what becomes of...anything really. Still looking for closure here. If you want to call it a "Return of the King" ending, that works for me. I prefer Final Fantasy VI ending, but hey, same difference.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by CSSteele on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:44 pm

demersel wrote:Now that's what i call a VISION. Just switch Xbox2 for a new gen console and everything will fall into place.


Mass Effect's first pitch - Project SFX

SFX(September 15, 2003)

. A spectacular new Sci-Fi roleplaying game and IP created by BioWare. With online capabilities and gameplay features that fill redefine the genre, SFXwill become a mainstream phenomenon and a must have game for Xbox2.

INGAME
. SFX takes place in a thrilling futuristic setting, with a combination of familiar locations and exotic worlds.
. It is the dawn of the interstellar age, with only a few explored worlds and many more accessible via exploration.
. Sleek vehickles and spectacular vistas create a unique identifiable look to the universe, while special rendering techniques depict the player's experience with a stylish ultra-realism.

PLAY
. An epic Bioware story will be at the center of the powerfull, character driven story.
. Gameplay will build on the elements from SW:KotOR - but will be more accessible to the mainstream audience,
. Players will lead a small party of 2 or 3, selected from a larger group of adventurers. Players can switch to control other party members at any time, and characters not controlled by the player will perform player-designated actions and AI scripts.
. The combat system will allow dazzling combat choreography and intense ranged combat. but will also be more responsive than round-based system.
. Players will be able to freely explore a galaxy of procedurally generated planets in an upgradable starship, to obtain valuable items and resources. Players can explore areas freely, or trevel to special locations as part of the single-player story.
. Xbox2 Live support will allow an additional dimension of gameplay though trading and communicating with players around the world.
. Story progression, planetary exploration, and online trading will create an emergent style of gameplay that is unprecedented in the RPG genre.
. Because of the Xbox2 Live capability and the procedural galaxy exploration system, the game continues limitlessly beyond the end of the single-player story.

TRADE
. Through Xbox2 Live, you can meet friends online in special locations in the game to chat and trade valuable items in a virtual environment.
. Some items found in the game will be different from one Xbox2 system to another, and they can be combined with other items online to create powerfull new items not available without online trading.
. A dynamic in-game economy will make trading online compelling, as precious items may be valued differently from one Xbow2 system to another.
. Xbox live can also tie the entire SFX community together in other exciting way, such as the addition of new locations, special items, new quests, and online new updates about the best players.

THE SFX PROJECT - DEVELOPMENT STRENGTHS
. SFX will be developed by the team that developed SW:Kotor. Their experience will be directly applied to making a bigger and better RPG franchise on the Xbox2.
. SFX will be developed on a new engine, custom tailored to push Xbox2 to its limits though a focus on realistic lighting, and render quality.

TARGET RELEASE: 2007


Thanks Dem. It is definitely an interesting view on Mass Effect. We'll see how 4 turns out, huh? ;)


And on topic. I want more Shepard, but I would be okay with a new protagonist, I just love the IP Bioware created. Which I have stated several times in this thread already. I was actually expecting and ending similar to DA:O the first time around, so not having it was part of my extreme disappointment with the ending. I chose Destroy, btw. The wackyness was .. acceptable .. to me, until the cutscenes started playing (Pre-EC), after I watched that nonsense, there was the breath and then ... It left me so upset and disappointed. I reloaded and tried Synthesis, didn't like that any more than the previous ending and vowed never to touch ME again, until my brain engaged and I got to thinking about it, then found Byne's thread and it all came together.

Anyway, that was an off-topic rant! I want closure, if this is to be the very last game featuring Shepard, we need closure, we need to know what happens to us, our friends and everyone else, even if it's just set-up for ME4.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by BleedingUranium on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:07 pm

magnetite wrote:

They also said we won't be getting bespoke endings with A, B and C choices but hey thats what we got, I thought I recalled them talking about upto 16 different endings.....

In ME2 Shepard can die after SM, yet ME3 you are forced to start with a new Shepard. Consequences of choices went right out the window.

Technically there was at least 16 different endings, if people see it as based off of EMS (up to 24 actually).

I think the whole choices affecting the ending may have been misleading. If people see the third game as the end, then your past choices have an impact. However, a lot of people that I've talked to keep seeing the last 5 minutes of the game as the ending, and nope, you don't see any previous choices have any impact (eg. save council, or destroy collector base).

Even though Bioware considers the third game as the end, and not the last 5 minutes.

They did say that previous choices would affect the war. With Mass Effect 3, the war is basically the whole game, so they were right on that. There was also past choices regarding DLC (eg. BDTS, Overlord), which did have an impact during the course of the game (Balak shows up or he doesn't. Legion mentions Overlord DLC. Dr. Archer and David show up, or they don't), but not during the ending itself.

I agree, but it doesn't change that the Reaper war, the main plot of the series, hasn't been resolved yet.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by windsurfing on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:59 am

magnetite wrote:

Technically there was at least 16 different endings, if people see it as based off of EMS (up to 24 actually).

I think the whole choices affecting the ending may have been misleading. If people see the third game as the end, then your past choices have an impact. However, a lot of people that I've talked to keep seeing the last 5 minutes of the game as the ending, and nope, you don't see any previous choices have any impact (eg. save council, or destroy collector base).

Even though Bioware considers the third game as the end, and not the last 5 minutes.

They did say that previous choices would affect the war. With Mass Effect 3, the war is basically the whole game, so they were right on that. There was also past choices regarding DLC (eg. BDTS, Overlord), which did have an impact during the course of the game (Balak shows up or he doesn't. Legion mentions Overlord DLC. Dr. Archer and David show up, or they don't), but not during the ending itself.

Mere mention of an event based on the pull of flags from the previous saves is not really much a impact creating effect with the backdrop of their marketing claims.

Technically we can then say that the war to take back earth happened in the mind battle between Shepard and TIM and Catalyst. But their launch video shows something completely different. Technically Shepard is also dead in 2 endings and alive/last breath in destroy, technically anything can be argued that they did what they claimed. Technically even I.T can be now summarily dismissed. Technically so many anomalies in ME3 can be dismissed using real technicalities. Technically 'bad writing' is very much possible.

But we all know that its hardly going to make much for the people who actually pay attention to the lore and the game's rich universe who know well when they were given BS in terms of the game being 'complete'

I can put it another way.

The very first time you played through ME3, before EC DLC, when harbinger shot Shepard down and he wakes up, what was the first thing that came to your mind?

To me it was "oh good another dream", I was expecting a critical mission failure TBH.


This was an instantaneous reaction. But then we play on and it goes on and on until the scene with the catalyst was over and the game ends. By then am not pissed or saddened, that was way later, I am thinking "wait where did the dream end? It did start as a dream right?" So if Bioware says this is how it is and there is nothing more to it, then they have lied and sold us a sub-standard piece of nonsense with huge plot holes. Then everything the trolls have been spreading all over will come to stand as fact. Because without I.T or something similar there is no way to explain away things that we have all discussed to death in detail. There are plenty of holes in ME3 much more than maybe ME1 and ME2 combined (I sound like TIM here)

Thats the problem of using technicality in analyzing things its a double edge sword, both sides can play with technicalities. Even the ending slide show was what anyone could just head canon on their own to be really honest. The slideshow montage is just what anyone can guess it offered nothing really in terms of a reveal if you think about it. What the EC DLC did add though are more I.T related clues, if they are not I.T related then they are more oddities in the game.

Lets not forget infogamer's interview with Casey Hudson, he makes it very clear they read through all this stuff, they maybe on here right now reading our stuff to get feelers on opinions for current and future works. But he clearly stated they strive to not give us what we expect but try to surprise us or shock us, for good or for worse.

Maybe they may have something in play and it maybe nothing like what I.T supporters, trolls, non-aligned groups may have thought of. Works as well if the plot holes and weirdness can be properly explained that happened in the final moments of the game. If they have something like this in-store they need to deliver because technicality doesn't cut it.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by magnetite on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:52 am

windsurfing wrote:
I can put it another way.

The very first time you played through ME3, before EC DLC, when harbinger shot Shepard down and he wakes up, what was the first thing that came to your mind?

To me it was "oh good another dream", I was expecting a critical mission failure TBH.

The first thing? I didn't get the breath scene the first time (didn't do multiplayer). When I did get it I probably said that it was some kind of indoctrination attempt. Hell, even before I got the breath scene, when I was given the choices by Starbinger, I knew something was up, so I did the "TIM was indoctrinated", "Saren was indoctrinated", therefore destroy is the best option.

I don't see how they could have done it any other way though. Maybe the point of the game wasn't to destroy the Reapers? Just resist the indoctrination process. As Demersel said, without Reapers, there'd be no more Mass Effect.

I guess I'm one of those guys who likes the whole ambiguity of the ending. I personally didn't need them to sit here and explain it for me. I can use the information in the game to figure it out.

Way our society works these days, people have been conditioned not to think for themselves and just believe, say Bioware, as the word of God so to speak. It's a form of indoctrination (not Reaper indoctrination, a real life indoctrination). Kind of like us (the followers) believe what the leader says (Bioware). If Bioware says the ending is crap and they screwed up, people would believe them, without question.

Thing is people need to form their own opinions about the ending, regardless of what Bioware says.

They even said before the game launched that part of the game is gathering information to solve a puzzle. If Bioware just told us the ending was an indoctrination attempt (Shepard wakes up and explains everything that happened), they would just solve the puzzle for us. Defeats the purpose.

People would probably hate me for saying that.

Bottom line, just wait until they release the final DLC. Then we'll talk.

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by windsurfing on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:41 am

magnetite wrote:
The first thing? I didn't get the breath scene the first time (didn't do multiplayer). When I did get it I probably said that it was some kind of indoctrination attempt. Hell, even before I got the breath scene, when I was given the choices by Starbinger, I knew something was up, so I did the "TIM was indoctrinated", "Saren was indoctrinated", therefore destroy is the best option.

I didnt have Mutliplayer since I played it on my roomate's account. I don't own ME3, I decided against buying it when I first heard of the fuss over the endings. My roommate bought it anyway since he pre-ordere it or something.

Yeah I didn't see the high EMS breath scene (EA trying to promote multiplayer?) but even then I just went by the game's lore and my morals as a result of my playthroughs, I choose destroy. Anderson, the millions killed, Legion, Mordin, Thane, Kaiden etc the loses all reminded me of what they died for, self determination. I just went straight to destroy. I also had this feeling, where is that last boss fight? where is that last ditch attempt to stop me? All I see is nothing but 3 options A, B and C, cant be that straightforward. I was really expecting the boss fight to start after I picked my choice of color.

I was actually surprised to see many had a huge dilemma when the choices came up. But now I know its because I was more boot camped into the paragon morals of the game, am projecting my ideas on the game so it was quick to make destroy as the choice. Everyone will react differently but the commonality is that we all know something is up. Even if we all don't get it right away.

magnetite wrote:
I don't see how they could have done it any other way though. Maybe the point of the game wasn't to destroy the Reapers? Just resist the indoctrination process. As Demersel said, without Reapers, there'd be no more Mass Effect.

I share the same notion that there is no ME without Shepard and the Reapers. They made it up as all this nearly unbeatable, unknowable force of destruction who's motives where unclear. This was really the biggest appeal to the game to me in ME1, that mystery. Sure the character development and our vested attachments developed, but my curiosity about the reapers peaked. Think of mass effect and I remember Sheploo's face and the outline of the reaper in the same weight.

Now if they are gone, how will Bioware top it? Make something even more powerful? Sure but it would be a rehash of the reaper threat. There is no need for that. Might as well end the franchise as the biggest threat is over. Expectations are high now, they cant top that. Not in this universe. Unless reapers and leviathans are not telling us the whole truth.

I also find it boring to play through backstory material on what we already know, that's why prequels suck, not unless this prequel was an documented part of the game's history, then it maybe worth playing. But will be as fun as fighting the reapers for the final battle? I know me, nope it ain't enough good for me.

But those who think like us are probably equaled or less or maybe out numbered by those who are thinking Shepard is not needed or that reapers are not needed. Those people may have other reasons and how they want to go forward. We don't know what Bioware now intends with the franchise. So our ideas are just hopes, maybe because of that we might all just loose interest in ME franchise if they do something that doesn't meet our expectations.

magnetite wrote:
I guess I'm one of those guys who likes the whole ambiguity of the ending. I personally didn't need them to sit here and explain it for me. I can use the information in the game to figure it out.

I favor opening endings when the outcome is one path and the end is never made clear, thats great!, but when the intent is to reflect on choices throughout the series and then make it ambiguous as well is defeating the point of multiple endings. We can have one ending and multiple interpretations. Multiple endings and multiple interpretations here is pointless. The super-set of everything is still the same.

Even without EC, and even without multiplayer I knew the endings were weird. I knew something was up thats when I saw a quote on youtube by a guy saying he saw Shepard getting indoctrinated, he got a lot of thumbs down for it though,.... wait a minute thats it!, Then sure enough someone by the name 'byne' has opened a topic on it asking fellow players for opinions, rest is history.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by demersel on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:55 am

ME3 is not about defeating the reapers, and the end of reaper war. It is about the beginning of the reaper war, but mainly - Shepard succumbing to/resisting to indoctrination. That is the story. That is what this particular game is about game is about.
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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by Raistlin Majere on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:59 am

demersel wrote:ME3 is not about defeating the reapers, and the end of reaper war. It is about the beginning of the reaper war, but mainly - Shepard succumbing to/resisting to indoctrination. That is the story. That is what this particular game is about game is about.

"This is not the end, it is not even the beginning of the end, but it might be the end of the beginning" Laughing

I hope that is the case.

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Re: Magnetite's internal struggle

Post by BleedingUranium on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:05 am

demersel wrote:ME3 is not about defeating the reapers, and the end of reaper war. It is about the beginning of the reaper war, but mainly - Shepard succumbing to/resisting to indoctrination. That is the story. That is what this particular game is about game is about.

If that's the case, then there's no problem. That would make the end of ME3 no different from the end of ME1 or 2: current plot resolved, Reaper plot ongoing.
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