Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Page 5 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by Arian Dynas on Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:58 am

Hrothdane wrote:
Arian Dynas wrote:http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2429#comic

I prefer this version: http://dresdencodak.com/2010/06/03/dark-science-01/

I want to find this director; and beat him to death with a copy of Moby Dick.

_________________

My Collected Works The Bioware Buisness Plan, The Birth of the Reapers, and An End Once and For All
"We didn't go out with a bang or a whimper. We went out with a whisper."
avatar
Arian Dynas
Space Cow

Posts : 879
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : Anchorage Alaska

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by Rifneno on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:10 am

boeloe wrote:
Rifneno wrote:
boeloe wrote:
Is that why homicides by guns (or homicides in general) is significantly higher in the US than in any other developed country?

For all the guns so readily available in the US is it really a safer country? The data seems to suggest the contrary.

If you're an utter simpleton and think something as massive and widespread as the behavior of an entire nation can have only one cause, sure.

Not a very strong point to make, since I've never even hinted at that. In fact I'm fairly positive that many socio-economic factors are involved such as high economic inequality, unemployment perhaps, failing law enforcement, crime rates etc. None of which are unique to the US, except your country's fascination for it's guns. You think Italy doesn't have organized crime, or the Netherlands drug trafficking, Spain high unemployment rates, the UK gang violence, etc.? Despite that, gun deaths is an order of magnitude lower in those countries compared to the US. Is it really so strange to think that a high availability of guns is major contributing factor to the high gun death rate? Be honest and don't deflect by making some stupid joke.

I don't give a damn about the gun death rate. To you, apparently it only matters how someone is killed rather than if they're killed. If I wanted to make a stupid joke, I'd pretend that the countries are equal enough sans the guns laws. By the perversion you call logic then whatever industries are most prevalent in Japan must be the cause of all their overworking deaths. Because we all know that no nation is unique and it can't simply be their culture. Quick, ban jobs in electronics production!

Speaking of culture, I find it befuddling that you people even think it's possible to ban firearms in the US. Such a change would be impossible to get passed in our government. IMPOSSIBLE. Even if we magically changed to an autocracy so that wasn't an obstacle, the change would be met with fierce -- and violent -- resistance by the people. If you think all those assholes with a basement full of assault rifles are a problem when they're just making crazy plans for the fall of civilization, try seeing how much of a problem they are when you try to take those guns away. But I suppose tools like you just sit there and dream about fairy tale worlds where someone signs a piece of paper and society magically changes overnight. Or perhaps, and this one is my guess, since you phrased it "your country", you're a foreigner who probably has never even been to America and in fact doesn't know jack shit about my country beyond second-hand propaganda.

_________________
Remember folks.  We didn't get A, B, C endings.  We got A, A, A endings.
avatar
Rifneno
Honey Badger

Posts : 2620
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 36
Location : Razgriz Straits

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by spotlessvoid on Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:46 am

The US is full of black market weapons. Even if you hypothetically managed to remove every legal weapon, violent gun crime would remain prevalent, leaving only honest citizens unarmed.



And let me explain this one last time:

The Founding Fathers were ABSOLUTELY clear on the purpose of the 2nd amendment. The greatest defense against government tyranny is an armed population.

The American people are the largest armed force on the planet. Our government has been trampling on the Bill of Rights. Now more than ever, the power to confront a government that is deeply corrupt is a last line of defense. I'm certainly not advocating that. I'm not even saying it's going to happen. But Americans should not give up that right under any circumstance.
avatar
spotlessvoid
Blood Pack Warrior

Posts : 906
Join date : 2013-01-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by Fur28 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:24 am

People from other countries should understand that in America(continent) things are different, our culture wasn´t founded with swords like in Europe or Asia, we won our independence and revolutions with guns, they´re part of our culture.

_________________
I Love Selim Heart
Anti-Shield Drill (Super Effective against the Ultimate Shield)

Fur28
Commando

Posts : 1278
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 23
Location : Mexico

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by Rifneno on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:42 am

spotlessvoid wrote:The US is full of black market weapons. Even if you hypothetically managed to remove every legal weapon, violent gun crime would remain prevalent, leaving only honest citizens unarmed.

True story. Anyone who disagrees has never been to North Mexico. ... Oh, sorry, "Texas."

_________________
Remember folks.  We didn't get A, B, C endings.  We got A, A, A endings.
avatar
Rifneno
Honey Badger

Posts : 2620
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 36
Location : Razgriz Straits

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by BlueLogic on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:49 pm

boeloe wrote:
Is that why homicides by guns (or homicides in general) is significantly higher in the US than in any other developed country?

For all the guns so readily available in the US is it really a safer country? The data seems to suggest the contrary.

boeloe wrote:
...I'm fairly positive that many socio-economic factors are involved such as high economic inequality, unemployment perhaps, failing law enforcement, crime rates etc. None of which are unique to the US, except your country's fascination for it's guns. You think Italy doesn't have organized crime, or the Netherlands drug trafficking, Spain high unemployment rates, the UK gang violence, etc.? Despite that, gun deaths is an order of magnitude lower in those countries compared to the US. Is it really so strange to think that a high availability of guns is major contributing factor to the high gun death rate?

Wall Street Journal - Murder in America

According to this database, if you're just talking about murder (not including armed robberies and other violent crimes), then it seems you're right. Between 2000 and 2011, more people were murdered by guns than all other types of weapons combined. But that's really no surprise. If I want to kill someone, and I have a gun, I'm going to use it rather than, say, a knife. There are lots of guns in America, so they're often used for murder and other nefarious deeds.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, I don't have a gun. All the guns have been removed from society somehow, and they are impossible to obtain. Well, I'll go with the knife. She's a small woman and I can easily overpower her. The low gun death rate looks good, but the victim still dies. After all, it's not like she has a gun to defend herself. EDIT: Headline at Yahoo! News today: Indian women given kitchen knives, chili to fend off rapists. /EDIT

That's the best case scenario really (and perhaps the most applicable to countries other than the U.S. where there are not already a lot of firearms). Chances are, if guns are made illegal in America, only the lawful people will disarm. So the more likely case, and one that we see play out in some places already, is that I'll have the gun and not have to worry that my victim might be armed too.

Consider Chicago where my mom lives. They have the strictest gun laws in the country. It is very very difficult to legally obtain a weapon and maintain ready access to it (strict carry laws, etc.). Chicago had 514 (!) homicides last year alone. It's reasonable to expect that the vast majority of these homicides weren't committed with guns due to the strict laws. As it turns out, of the 514 homicides, 441 were committed with guns. The professional criminals and gang members ignore the law, while law abiding citizens remain unarmed and vulnerable.
avatar
BlueLogic
Rampart Mech

Posts : 534
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 39
Location : Calibrating something in ATL, GA, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by Restrider on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:08 pm

A totally different approach to reduce crime in general and specifically organized crime is to legalize drugs.
Let's face it, the majority of gangs and crime syndicates fund themselves through selling, producing and/or trafficing drugs.
And not only small gangs, but global organizations. How do you think do the taliban finance themselves? Or the AQMI terrorists in Africa? By trafficing and producing drugs.

Furthermore a controlled production of drugs would provide the user with more security since there will not be some lethal/toxic residues in the product. Of course drugs are unhealthy/toxic, but most damage is done by other residues that are in the product due to poor skills in refining them or to stretch the drugs.

In addition the increased revenue due to taxes on these drugs could be used for detox programs or in general to finance the costs that drugs cause in the medical sector (the latter applies for european countries though).

Thoughts?

_________________
IT's Top Ten||IT Variations||BSN Census||First Playthrough Choice||IT and Refuse
The Decision Chamber and you||IT Discussion Flowchart||IT Council||IT Personality Test
avatar
Restrider
Blood Pack Warrior

Posts : 934
Join date : 2013-01-07
Location : Democratic Republic of New Germany - Phase 1 Space

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by BlueLogic on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:16 pm

Restrider wrote:A totally different approach to reduce crime in general and specifically organized crime is to legalize drugs.

*snip*

Thoughts?

A very thoughtful argument. I have long been on the other side of this debate, but this line of thought has changed my mind rather recently. While drugs are certainly destructive, and their use should be firmly discouraged, I am now convinced it is not the place of the legal system to do so. Parents and advocacy groups should be relied on to encourage people to voluntarily abstain from harmful drugs, just as they already discourage abuse of substances such as inhalants that are readily available in everyday products.

While it's true drug abuse destroys lives, and making them legal will almost certainly expose some who would otherwise have been deterred by threat of the legal consequences, lives are also destroyed by the incarceration of a family's provider.

I do not, however, think it wise to link government revenue to the use of intoxicating substances. I'm not aware of any abuses brought about by such perverse incentives, but it just strikes me as wrong for an increase in destructive behavior in the population to financially benefit the government (in the short term at least). Then again, I'm a Fair Tax guy, so no surprise there.

EDIT: Rereading your argument on taxation, and the intended use of the revenue, I realize my disagreement is largely misplaced.
avatar
BlueLogic
Rampart Mech

Posts : 534
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 39
Location : Calibrating something in ATL, GA, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by spotlessvoid on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:25 pm

The fact is there are millions of illegal weapons in the US. Outlawing guns will leave only outlaws with guns.

The majority of murders are with illegal weapons and involve gangs who are fighting over the illicit drug trade.


Mass shootings occur almost exclusively in gun free zones.


The largest and most aggressive military led by a deeply corrupt government should not be allowed a monopoly of force over the public. Americans must remain suitably armed to make the use of force against them by their own government prohibitively difficult
avatar
spotlessvoid
Blood Pack Warrior

Posts : 906
Join date : 2013-01-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:29 pm

Has little to do with guns.

Has only somewhat to do with gun culture.

Has everything to do with America being a uniquely fear based culture. Criminals after you - Government after you - Psychopaths after you - Immigrants after you - Gun Manics after you - Leebrals after you - etc etc

So many in USA don't even know their neighbors. And if they do, they still don't know anyone outside that area.

Citizens can only trust their government if they can trust each other. Once they trust each other, they hold government accountable as a society, instead of snapping at each other, allowing the government to take full advantage of the bi-polarity of the nation.

So yeah, gun ownership is only OK for me because it at least puts the plug on what would otherwise be a horrible situation. It doesn't fix anything.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:35 pm

Keep in mind that this fear culture is:

1)Not unique in it existing. Lots of national cultures are afraid of many things. It's unique in its emphasis on the foundation of the nation. 'Liberty against tyranny' is a much better way of saying 'I'm afraid the other will take everything we have!'. And that's fine btw, if it is justified.

2)Like I was just getting to, it is also useful. American culture is the new empire of the world. Like any empire, the ones inside it become fearful of losing what they have - to the barbarians, to the corruption within, and to each other.
Just another manifestation of that. So yeah, so far, I'd rather people have guns because I actually AM quite sure that the majority of your government does not give a damn about your civil rights when it comes down to it.
And now with globalism, the empire is much larger than the USA itself.
Doesn't mean guns are good or productive to improving society and against incidents with other guns involved, in any way. I'm just saying 'don't ban guns'. *shrug*

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by spotlessvoid on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:22 am

That's my stance basically. I'd rather not need one. But I do.
avatar
spotlessvoid
Blood Pack Warrior

Posts : 906
Join date : 2013-01-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Politics. Dirty, dirty, politics.

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum