Major Coats, we are all onto you.

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Nightvayne on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:07 am

Selim Bradley wrote:
dork wrote:
southbeatz wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:You see, Anderson being indoctrinated would make more sense, sheerly out of a story-telling perspective.

Option A: Your best friend and mentor is indoctrinated, leading to an emotional and dramatic scene of stopping him.

Option B: Random soldier you just met is indoctrinated, leading to a scene with no emotion or drama whatsoever.

Well I hope they don't add any type of scene where Shepard has to kill Anderson. I never would kill Mordin or Wrex, although Mordin will do it himself basically regardless so if they did make Anderson indoctrinated I'd hope they'd do it right.

for the mission to succeed if anderson becomes a threat to the success of that mission for whatever reason then shepard would have to have the mental strength to do whats necessary. It would be utterly heartbreaking to be sure, but Andersons mind might have been lost when he stayed behind imo. What a choice for Shep to have to face.
Exactly.
This
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Terramine on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:39 pm

Crap I made a mistake before, I didn't mean to say Shepard became unconscious so let me retry:

Take Harbinger's beam for example, you SEE Shepard about to get blasted and there is a fade to white and he is lying on the ground afterwards, correct? However this is not how the Geth Consensus worked, Shepard never had a gap in consciousness, he was fully aware before, during, and after the transition to the Geth consensus. This is how I believe indoctrination is likely to work, it should force Shepard into his subconscious without him becoming unconscious at any points.

Ever heard of Lucid Dreaming? It's where you are conscious in your dream, and you can train to do it. There is different methods for mastering Lucid Dreaming, the hardest method is called WILD. It stands for Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming, you try to go to sleep while retaining your awareness, whereas when you normally sleep you become unconscious.

Shepard has to be aware during indoctrination, otherwise he doesn't actually choose anything. Have you ever heard of someone having a change of opinion while they were dreaming, and said change remained when they woke up? The answer is inevitably no, because it's impossible. However it would be possible if you were Lucid while dreaming, because then you'd be conscious.

So my point is that indoctrination HAS to invoke a WILD in order to work. Anyone who has succeeded at WILD will tell you that from the first person perspective, it's seamless. In fact it's VERY common that when you succeed, your dream will be identical to your room and thus you will think you FAILED to fall asleep when in reality you are in the dream at that moment.

If Shepard fell asleep, or if he got damaged so bad he fell unconscious. Then indoctrination couldn't work because it could not invoke a change in resolve.

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Terramine on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:44 pm

As for Anderson having to be murdered, I think it would depend on how well you have done so far one way or another. Maybe killing him would be for if you didn't have enough Renegade or Paragon to do an interrupt that keeps him alive somehow. Or heck maybe it would depend on when he died in the hallucination beforehand.

Coats doesn't need a storytelling reason, he seems to be a blunt wake up call considering his appearance in Synthesis. In fact Coats is why I wonder whether or not Synthesis supporters actually pay attention to their own preferred ending -_-

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:17 am

Yes, Coates could be the red herring, and Anderson is the one indoctrinated.

Hey, we'll see! Or not. Or we could be speculating about nonsense. Haha.

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by CSSteele on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:50 am

In the game files, is it only when Coates is present we get the infrasonic sounds, or is it something we can examine as eminating from the character itself?

I ask because Coates and Anderson are always together on Prio:Earth, aren't they? So, if the infrasonics is just THERE when they're around it leaves it open to which one is actually the 'bad' one, where-as if it can be nailed down to coming from a specific character, or only starts when one or the other is there - when things separate, then we'll know.

Also, we can't use Anderson on the Citadel as a test for that, as it being 'not real' it doesn't matter what happens there. Only Prio:Earth itself.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by southbeatz on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:20 am

CSSteele wrote:In the game files, is it only when Coates is present we get the infrasonic sounds, or is it something we can examine as eminating from the character itself?

I ask because Coates and Anderson are always together on Prio:Earth, aren't they? So, if the infrasonics is just THERE when they're around it leaves it open to which one is actually the 'bad' one, where-as if it can be nailed down to coming from a specific character, or only starts when one or the other is there - when things separate, then we'll know.

Also, we can't use Anderson on the Citadel as a test for that, as it being 'not real' it doesn't matter what happens there. Only Prio:Earth itself.

You talk to Coates after they pick up Shepard and land, Anderson leaves and Shepard talks to Coates briefly. I might check it out when I get to that point since I'm doing a play through this week because like the fool lol I deleted my saves to give myself reason to play the series through again.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:26 am

southbeatz wrote:
CSSteele wrote:In the game files, is it only when Coates is present we get the infrasonic sounds, or is it something we can examine as eminating from the character itself?

I ask because Coates and Anderson are always together on Prio:Earth, aren't they? So, if the infrasonics is just THERE when they're around it leaves it open to which one is actually the 'bad' one, where-as if it can be nailed down to coming from a specific character, or only starts when one or the other is there - when things separate, then we'll know.

Also, we can't use Anderson on the Citadel as a test for that, as it being 'not real' it doesn't matter what happens there. Only Prio:Earth itself.

You talk to Coates after they pick up Shepard and land, Anderson leaves and Shepard talks to Coates briefly. I might check it out when I get to that point since I'm doing a play through this week because like the fool lol I deleted my saves to give myself reason to play the series through again.
I just listened to the scene where you are alone with Coats, and I don't hear the infrasound. This is with top-of-the-line headphones too.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Terramine on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:22 am

Selim Bradley wrote:
southbeatz wrote:
CSSteele wrote:In the game files, is it only when Coates is present we get the infrasonic sounds, or is it something we can examine as eminating from the character itself?

I ask because Coates and Anderson are always together on Prio:Earth, aren't they? So, if the infrasonics is just THERE when they're around it leaves it open to which one is actually the 'bad' one, where-as if it can be nailed down to coming from a specific character, or only starts when one or the other is there - when things separate, then we'll know.

Also, we can't use Anderson on the Citadel as a test for that, as it being 'not real' it doesn't matter what happens there. Only Prio:Earth itself.

You talk to Coates after they pick up Shepard and land, Anderson leaves and Shepard talks to Coates briefly. I might check it out when I get to that point since I'm doing a play through this week because like the fool lol I deleted my saves to give myself reason to play the series through again.
I just listened to the scene where you are alone with Coats, and I don't hear the infrasound. This is with top-of-the-line headphones too.
As far as I know literally every encounter has it. Also just because your headphones are top of the line, that doesn't mean it could play it, and as far as I knew it's literally proven because someone looked at the audio files directly and found infrasound.

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by dorktainian on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:23 am

i'm gonna have to try the headphones thing tonight. never really done it tbh.

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:46 am

IronicParticle wrote:As far as I know literally every encounter has it. Also just because your headphones are top of the line, that doesn't mean it could play it, and as far as I knew it's literally proven because someone looked at the audio files directly and found infrasound.
If you have a link to the infrasound, please link it. As it stands now, all I have is your "to the best of my knowledge", which is beaten by me knowing that I didn't hear anything during the scene where Shepard and Coats are alone.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Lokanaiya on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:22 pm

I don't think that headphones or speakers even CAN play infrasound... After all, it has been proven to actually cause major health/mental problems, such as headaches and hallucinations of ghosts (lol)

No matter how good your headphones are, they won't do infrasound both because the developers would get sued and the fact that it's pointless anyway since people can't even (consciously) hear infrasound. More evidence that the infrasound in game files is a legitimate clue.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Andromidius on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:36 pm

Aye, the ultrasound is 'there' but isn't being processed. Only very powerful speakers can even begin to play what's in the sound files.

Mind you, even the audible soundwaves we get can be pretty disturbing. The viberations during Reaper Horns and the ending of the Dreams sends shivers down my spine.

I consider them to be pretty substantial proof, considering the known qualities of infrasound in reality and the fact its mentioned in the codex entry under Indoctrination. Anyone who dismisses that is just being a tool. Its better proof even then the stuff flycammed, and I consider much of that to be 4th wall breaking evidence.

Its literally 4th wall breaking, since you yourself need to break the 4th wall to see it!
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Terramine on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:35 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DghVe7R3c

Here is a video showing the game has infrasound. Including whenever Coats is around.

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:35 pm

Lokanaiya wrote:I don't think that headphones or speakers even CAN play infrasound... After all, it has been proven to actually cause major health/mental problems, such as headaches and hallucinations of ghosts (lol)

No matter how good your headphones are, they won't do infrasound both because the developers would get sued and the fact that it's pointless anyway since people can't even (consciously) hear infrasound. More evidence that the infrasound in game files is a legitimate clue.

Good speakers will be able to play infrasound, only you won't be able to hear it, you'll feel it instead.

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by TurianRebel212 on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:01 pm

Coates, quit trying to indoctrinate me you POS, I'm trying to save the galaxy.

I've thought something was up with coates since some dude on BSN proved, without a doubt, that infrasonic sound emits from the guy when he's around. Plus he looks nothing like the guy from the big ben. Nothing.

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MAJOR COATES, THE RED HERRING

Post by SZKSYPCZE on Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:35 pm

I did not want to start this topic out in the open, cause I would get flammed by the people who can't even fathom the IT.

I was watching the vids by Prtez Zell, which are very good BTW. During this I came up with the vid on major coates and I got this thought. Remember the Red Herring used during the promotion before ME3 release?? It was one of the last clues Bioware gave us. As far as I remember it's relevance hasn't been really disclosed. Also, during this promotional vid of ME3 red herring picture was composed in the frames of Major Coates video showing him hiding in Big Ben.

So then, I noticed a few things about Major Coates:
- he is introduced during the finale of ME3 out of nowhere;
- he is the one ordering retreat during the beam run, against Anderson's orders;
- he was disclosed by the Reaper light after shooting husk in the initial trailer;
- there are those strange things about him being in the shuttle, not being in the shuttle, being up the Citadel, etc.

It got me wandering so I decided to start from scratch. I went to wikipedia for Red Herring as I did before Me3. It was the same as before - nothing revealed.....but wait...let's check the wikipedia in my language, i.e. Polish on the term "red herring" without translating it into Polish. WOW! Some new info. So I got to learn that red herring is red only by it's name. The term was created by the English Hunting Art and means actually "smoked herring". It was used by the hunters and thrown to the dogs to distract them, before they got to and damaged the precious fur of the killed animal (all forces are being distracted by Coates right bfore they reach their goal). The wikipedia entry said that "red herring" usually means sth very interesting and intriguing to distract one's attention, move the attention off the main goal. Well, how about that?

But the best part is still to come. Then the wikipedia entry says that in literature or cinematography, "red herring" is used to distract one's attention from the main plot, which often leads to a surprise (this may be a wrong word here), so called "twist ending". Very often, the "red herring" is actually a second- or a third stage character, whose presence or actions mislead other characters and create interpretation traps to the reader resulting in achieving wrong conclusions and answers. Hope you guys are getting the idea. There is more.

Then wikipedia says that there is a usage of this term in the Oxford English Dictionary form 1686 (keep to your chairs): "..."To draw a red herring across the track..." Major Coates oredrs to retreat during the run, right??

So there you have it. This is my interpretation of the Red Herring in ME3. Bioware wanted us right from the beginning to look for the clues. So I did. What do you think guys??
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:42 pm

Merged the two Major Coats topics.

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by southbeatz on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:35 pm

I believe Bioware had plans for Coates regarding all that's mentioned. The question is did Bioware have time and opportunity to implement what they wanted? We know EA has a bad reputation and we can assume EA would rush things but we do not work for Bioware or EA so we can only assume. I'll go with the assumption from Bioware's past glory.

Bioware probably placed Coates the way they did on purpose. I'm not sure if there's any major significance in Coates past the fact that he doesn't fit, he's out of place and he also orders people to retreat which is going against "Admiral" Anderson's orders which would be a big deal under any circumstance to disregard and go against the military leader's direct orders. Anderson made it clear that everyone was to go for the beam no matter the cost. Coates directly goes against this trying to get people that could have made it up to possibly retreat. Maybe Coates is a Reaper plant. The Reapers have been doing this harvesting cycle for millions of years so we have to assume they have a near infinite amount of tricks to deploy against us, Coates being one of them.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:08 am

southbeatz wrote:I believe Bioware had plans for Coates regarding all that's mentioned. The question is did Bioware have time and opportunity to implement what they wanted? We know EA has a bad reputation and we can assume EA would rush things but we do not work for Bioware or EA so we can only assume. I'll go with the assumption from Bioware's past glory.

Bioware probably placed Coates the way they did on purpose. I'm not sure if there's any major significance in Coates past the fact that he doesn't fit, he's out of place and he also orders people to retreat which is going against "Admiral" Anderson's orders which would be a big deal under any circumstance to disregard and go against the military leader's direct orders. Anderson made it clear that everyone was to go for the beam no matter the cost. Coates directly goes against this trying to get people that could have made it up to possibly retreat. Maybe Coates is a Reaper plant. The Reapers have been doing this harvesting cycle for millions of years so we have to assume they have a near infinite amount of tricks to deploy against us, Coates being one of them.
One problem: He only does that after the Harbinger Beam, which everyone has agreed makes it only in Shepard's mind. Coats never in reality orders a retreat, in fact he tells those who think about it to stay the course.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by BleedingUranium on Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:25 am

^That definition of red herring could apply Synthesis and Control. A shiny thing to distract you from the main goal.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Terramine on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:53 am

@Selim Bradley: But then Shepard should've been woken up before making his choice, someone should be saying "wake up" or something. We know the beam run is a trap, everyone's sanity should be checked purely because they did not call this plan into question. The only one who DID was EDI, and Shepard gave a pretty stupid response by saying the Reapers underestimate them. It IS a trap, inevitably so, even if the plan was trustworthy... the fact that it ISN'T trustworthy makes it worse.

When you get hit by Harbinger's beam, the sounds are out of focus. Now it sounds similar to when a grenade goes off right next to you, but that's because of how loud it is, isn't it? Harbinger's beam is not that loud, so I doubt it would do that. Besides even if that was the case, Shepard is unconscious so why would he have this problem in his dream? It's more like it is sounds from the REAL WORLD entering his dream, which would make sense as he is at that exact moment transitioning from being fully aware, to entering his subconscious mind.

@BleedingUranium: But then Destroy is most definitely a Red Herring too, also it is true that Major Coats IS a big fat Red Herring even if Bioware was talking about something else. That's why he is so out of place :l

Edit: Just want to point out, that it's more so questionable that Anderson is on the citadel. It's way more believable a retreat was his idea, he may have said no retreating but it's not like they can do anything else. We definitely know he is not actually on the citadel, so where is Anderson and the remaining people if they didn't retreat? Won't they die by Harbinger's doing?

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by SZKSYPCZE on Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:02 am

Could anyone try to find the original video where the red herring was shown in one of the mass effect 3 trailers. I'm pretty sure that it was shown in connection to the Big Ben sniper.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:18 am

IronicParticle wrote:@Selim Bradley: But then Shepard should've been woken up before making his choice, someone should be saying "wake up" or something. We know the beam run is a trap, everyone's sanity should be checked purely because they did not call this plan into question. The only one who DID was EDI, and Shepard gave a pretty stupid response by saying the Reapers underestimate them. It IS a trap, inevitably so, even if the plan was trustworthy... the fact that it ISN'T trustworthy makes it worse.

When you get hit by Harbinger's beam, the sounds are out of focus. Now it sounds similar to when a grenade goes off right next to you, but that's because of how loud it is, isn't it? Harbinger's beam is not that loud, so I doubt it would do that. Besides even if that was the case, Shepard is unconscious so why would he have this problem in his dream? It's more like it is sounds from the REAL WORLD entering his dream, which would make sense as he is at that exact moment transitioning from being fully aware, to entering his subconscious mind.
That would ruin the point of IT. There would be no speculation if you hear someone saying wake up in the vanilla game. As for the plan, it's Anderson, not Coats, who deviced it. Coats even claims that certain parts are "death traps", but Anderson waves that away. For the rest, to quote Javik "the Reapers are cunning in their deception." Being hit by a beam would definately daze you and scrample your senses, if not from the blast itself then from Shepard falling to the ground hard. Harbinger would use his knowledge of human anatomy to help make everything in the illusion appear real to Shepard, or else Shepard would detect something suspicious.
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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Terramine on Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:36 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:@Selim Bradley: But then Shepard should've been woken up before making his choice, someone should be saying "wake up" or something. We know the beam run is a trap, everyone's sanity should be checked purely because they did not call this plan into question. The only one who DID was EDI, and Shepard gave a pretty stupid response by saying the Reapers underestimate them. It IS a trap, inevitably so, even if the plan was trustworthy... the fact that it ISN'T trustworthy makes it worse.

When you get hit by Harbinger's beam, the sounds are out of focus. Now it sounds similar to when a grenade goes off right next to you, but that's because of how loud it is, isn't it? Harbinger's beam is not that loud, so I doubt it would do that. Besides even if that was the case, Shepard is unconscious so why would he have this problem in his dream? It's more like it is sounds from the REAL WORLD entering his dream, which would make sense as he is at that exact moment transitioning from being fully aware, to entering his subconscious mind.
That would ruin the point of IT. There would be no speculation if you hear someone saying wake up in the vanilla game. As for the plan, it's Anderson, not Coats, who deviced it. Coats even claims that certain parts are "death traps", but Anderson waves that away. For the rest, to quote Javik "the Reapers are cunning in their deception." Being hit by a beam would definately daze you and scrample your senses, if not from the blast itself then from Shepard falling to the ground hard. Harbinger would use his knowledge of human anatomy to help make everything in the illusion appear real to Shepard, or else Shepard would detect something suspicious.
Except the Reapers are not even trying that hard, there is trillions of things beyond easily noticeable that render the situation as NOT REAL. Shepard just eats it up because he is in a dream-like state, much like I once thought having a Dragon as a neighbor was totally normal in a dream once. Once you are dreaming, you don't know poop from applesauce... you don't know that it makes no sense that your grandma is a Popsicle. This is because you are detached from the majority of your memories, especially the ones pertaining to the laws of physics, and other such rules of reality, etc. There is not a lick of reality in this indoc attempt.

Also remember, Anderson is a bigger destroyer than Coats. If Anderson is indoctrinated, Coats is TOO -_-

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Re: Major Coats, we are all onto you.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:39 am

If those things were that easily noticable, why doesn't everyone support IT? The answer is because it's subtle and not easily noticable. As for dreams, I'm sorry to say I don't have much experience with the kiind of dreams you are talking about, so I reaslly can't comment one way or the other on that.
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