The Dragon Age Thread

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by RavenEyry on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:44 am

http://www.oxm.co.uk/49379/dragon-age-3-artist-sings-frostbite-2s-praises-admits-to-disappointment-over-dragon-age-1-2/#null

It's been officially announced DA3 will have less brown, shunning the trend of every 'gritty' game ever.

Edit: And 800 posts is space cow apparently. I approve. Sneaky bastard steals electronic money from your pocket.
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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Norlond on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:03 pm

Not brown-dominated? Very nice, brown just doesn't fit Orlais, needs brighter colors, to look powerful and noble

I really like this concept art too, I'd love to explore Elvhenan ruins like this

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Rifneno on Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:31 pm

On their promises of a brighter game, remember that BW also promised us that ME3 wouldn't be as dark and gloomy as ME2 was.

On elven ruins, I'm still not completely convinced that the Primeval Thaig wasn't really the ruins of Arlathan. I remember having a big thread full of pictures, IT-style speculations, ect. about it. Basically the premise was that the horror show that Tevinter was doing in Kirkwall was that ritual to sink Arlathan. We thought it was dwarven because it was underground but there's no solid proof. And there was an odd bit of very elven stuff down there. More importantly, the codex description of the Profane sounds exactly like the victims of Arlathan's disaster would've said.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by umadcommander on Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:07 pm

graphics has always been a part of the game that has let dragon age down imo, not that its that important but still it will be nice not looking at everything being so dull

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by DSharrah on Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:42 pm

Rifneno wrote:On their promises of a brighter game, remember that BW also promised us that ME3 wouldn't be as dark and gloomy as ME2 was.

On elven ruins, I'm still not completely convinced that the Primeval Thaig wasn't really the ruins of Arlathan. I remember having a big thread full of pictures, IT-style speculations, ect. about it. Basically the premise was that the horror show that Tevinter was doing in Kirkwall was that ritual to sink Arlathan. We thought it was dwarven because it was underground but there's no solid proof. And there was an odd bit of very elven stuff down there. More importantly, the codex description of the Profane sounds exactly like the victims of Arlathan's disaster would've said.

I remember this as well...the discussion had me convinced. It was one of the things that really stood out to me in DA 2...I thought that they did an amazing job deepening the lore.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Norlond on Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:24 pm

@Rif you convinced me in the chat, so no more comment on that Wink

umadcommander wrote:graphics has always been a part of the game that has let dragon age down imo, not that its that important but still it will be nice not looking at everything being so dull
We also get Frostbite 2, so be ready for graphigasm

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by GethJuggernautMKII on Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:29 pm

I thought DA:2 was great, minus the reused maps.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Rifneno on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:03 pm

GethPrimeMKII wrote:I thought DA:2 was great, minus the reused maps.

The problem was the set-in-stone storyline. Even things you should be reasonably able to prevent, you can't. You make virtually no difference in anything. You can decide whether a few minor characters live or die, but you have no impact on the world at large. As opposed to DAO where you personally decide not one but two monarchs for example. And even those minor characters, your decision means nothing. If the writers decide to bring them back, they will retcon their your decision to kill them just like the did player's decisions to kill Leliana, Anders, or Justice. While they were retconning away other decisions and epilogues. Cullen wound up a raving madman and murderer at large? Lol, retcon. You got the Circle freed from the Chantry? Lol, retcon. You got the Dalish their own lands? You guessed it: lol, retcon!

David Gaider sucks dick.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Raistlin Majere on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:15 pm

Rifneno wrote:
GethPrimeMKII wrote:I thought DA:2 was great, minus the reused maps.

The problem was the set-in-stone storyline. Even things you should be reasonably able to prevent, you can't. You make virtually no difference in anything. You can decide whether a few minor characters live or die, but you have no impact on the world at large. As opposed to DAO where you personally decide not one but two monarchs for example. And even those minor characters, your decision means nothing. If the writers decide to bring them back, they will retcon their your decision to kill them just like the did player's decisions to kill Leliana, Anders, or Justice. While they were retconning away other decisions and epilogues. Cullen wound up a raving madman and murderer at large? Lol, retcon. You got the Circle freed from the Chantry? Lol, retcon. You got the Dalish their own lands? You guessed it: lol, retcon!

David Gaider sucks dick.

I actually looked at it more like headcannon than retcon.

Mass Effect was the series where I felt like I was going to decide my storyline through my choices, it was marketed as such. Dragon Age less, so at least from what I saw. I certainly expected choices within context of each DA game (and DA2 was a let down there) but i never expected something Mass Effect big to carry on into the next game in the series.

I fully expect the same to be the case in DA3 as Bioware carries the overaching storyline along the way they want it to go, with only minor changes carrying over from each game.

I am pretty sure the same will happens once the Reaper war is over and we carry on to the next game set after it in Mass Effect. Even without the clusterfuck that is the litteral ending the differences between different saves is still overwhelming by the end of Mass Effect 3. Rachni may or may not be alive, same for Quarians, Geth and Krogan. Especially the last 3 is what makes me quite sure that moving forward Bioware will be forced to headcannon certain events.

My reasoning is that the massive changes each of those events will cause will make it near impossible to write the story. Ths goes double if you want the Quarians / Geth / Krogan to have any kind of major role in a sequel, which considering they are on the rise again they should have. You simply cannot write a story where a major race may or may not be dead, at least not one where said race has any kind of significance...or at the very least it would take an enormous amount of ressources due to the massive changes logically incurred.

In essence it is a choice between the Krogan / Geth / Quarians having absolutely no real significance on the main story of a sequel and essentially just appearing as cameos or headcannoning certain events so that you can move forward and use each race to its full potential within the storyline. I personally would rather see the later than the first.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Rifneno on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:16 pm

You can look at it however you want. It's still retcon.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by umadcommander on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:23 pm

Rifneno wrote:You can look at it however you want. It's still retcon.
i have a feeling the dark ritual from DAO will have happened no matter what you picked in DA3, just beacause i can see this god child thing being what drives the plot

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Raistlin Majere on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:35 pm

umadcommander wrote:
Rifneno wrote:You can look at it however you want. It's still retcon.
i have a feeling the dark ritual from DAO will have happened no matter what you picked in DA3, just beacause i can see this god child thing being what drives the plot

Exactly. Mass Effect is for the branching storyline across multiple games, Dragon Age on the other hand seems to be moving along a more set in stone "canon" main story route.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by FFZero on Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:04 pm


DA2 struck me as a game where the developers didn’t really know what they wanted to do with the franchise they’d created. I don’t think they were expecting DAO to be as well received as it was so when writing started on DA2 they were like “okay wtf do we do?” and then decided on creating a very convoluted story with various plot lines but no clear narrative.

That and in every area it felt like they were taking two steps back then falling off a cliff. To go from the in depth character interaction in DAO to ME’s character interaction in DA2 was a huge let down for me, especially since it was only because the dev’s wanted the game to flow more cinematically. Does anyone else here ever feel like BW devs need to be reminded that they are making video games and not movies?
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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Cyberfrog on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:01 pm

Awesome graphics with the new engine? I'll believe it when I see it.
Varied locations and quests? I'll believe it when I see it.
Gaider respecting player agency? I'll believe it when I see it.
DA:I not being a disappointing mess with a pretty lame player character? I'll believe it when I see it.

DAO was a great game, DA2... not so much.
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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Lombus on Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:04 pm

RavenEyry wrote:
DSharrah wrote:I did not mind DA 2, though I seem to be in the minority with that...hope DA 3 ends up being a huge bounce back for the franchise.
I enjoyed 2 more than origins, despite it's flaws. I'm in an even bigger minority.
You're not alone actually, just the fact that Hawke talked improved the game alot.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:09 pm

Lombus wrote:
RavenEyry wrote:
DSharrah wrote:I did not mind DA 2, though I seem to be in the minority with that...hope DA 3 ends up being a huge bounce back for the franchise.
I enjoyed 2 more than origins, despite it's flaws. I'm in an even bigger minority.
You're not alone actually, just the fact that Hawke talked improved the game alot.
I'm in this group too. The talking protagonist, mages using their staff as a lance in CQC, and other things made it more enjoyable to play.


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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Raistlin Majere on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:21 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:
Lombus wrote:
RavenEyry wrote:
DSharrah wrote:I did not mind DA 2, though I seem to be in the minority with that...hope DA 3 ends up being a huge bounce back for the franchise.
I enjoyed 2 more than origins, despite it's flaws. I'm in an even bigger minority.
You're not alone actually, just the fact that Hawke talked improved the game alot.
I'm in this group too. The talking protagonist, mages using their staff as a lance in CQC, and other things made it more enjoyable to play.

PS: It will also always hold a special place because it made a video game version of me in the form of Merrill. Joyful

Also the ability trees (or whatever they are called) of DA2 were miles ahead of DA1 even if not all of it was balanced.

Also I actually liked the enemies gtting reinforcements in combat. It meant you could not simply blow everything you have the moment the enemies showed up and then rest afterwards. You had to gradually use your abilities, saving crowd control and high damage attacks for dangerous targets which might show up. I actually liked this aspect on the higher difficulty.

However I did not like the staggering system as it was way to easy to be locked down if you were not a shield wielding warrior. This was especially a problem as a Duelist Rogue as it did not matter with all my bonuses against my chosen enemy as it simply staggered me with every blow.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by GethJuggernautMKII on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:39 am

I personally thought assassin, and shadow were the best two specializations to pick. Stealth IMO worked out far better in DAII than it ever did in DA:O.

With DA:O, while stealth was effective way of gaining superior position, there was nothing besides a standard backstab to use on the enemy once you got behind him. On higher difficulties there was no way an elite or above was going to be taken out in one backstab or even several, and this is with a pure cunning rogue with specializations specifically chosen to draw out the best damage potential

DAII's assassins felt more....well....assassin like. Lightning fast but weak strikes, coupled with occasional bursts of insane damage, and also the ability to misdirect enemies with decoys and smoke screens.

As for the ability trees, I felt it was an improvement over DA:O. I didn't like having to spend 2 or 3 levels investing in useless skills to get at the one I wanted (I'm looking at you Crushing Prison).

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Raistlin Majere on Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:37 am

GethPrimeMKII wrote:I personally thought assassin, and shadow were the best two specializations to pick. Stealth IMO worked out far better in DAII than it ever did in DA:O.

With DA:O, while stealth was effective way of gaining superior position, there was nothing besides a standard backstab to use on the enemy once you got behind him. On higher difficulties there was no way an elite or above was going to be taken out in one backstab or even several, and this is with a pure cunning rogue with specializations specifically chosen to draw out the best damage potential

DAII's assassins felt more....well....assassin like. Lightning fast but weak strikes, coupled with occasional bursts of insane damage, and also the ability to misdirect enemies with decoys and smoke screens.

As for the ability trees, I felt it was an improvement over DA:O. I didn't like having to spend 2 or 3 levels investing in useless skills to get at the one I wanted (I'm looking at you Crushing Prison).

Force Mage was to me bar none the best specialization in the game simply for the spell Gravitic. On paper the reduced attack and movement speed depending on distance from the center did not seem so great, but once I realized that an enemy standing in the exact center was essentially paralyzed the spell became gold, especially since the enemy could not resist the effect.

Unless the enemy was fully immune to all slowing effects (suprisingly few in the game were) you could drop Gravitic directly on top on it and have a full duration, no save, paralysis effect, weakening surrounding enemies as well.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Rifneno on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:25 am

Raistlin Majere wrote:
umadcommander wrote:
Rifneno wrote:You can look at it however you want. It's still retcon.
i have a feeling the dark ritual from DAO will have happened no matter what you picked in DA3, just beacause i can see this god child thing being what drives the plot

Exactly. Mass Effect is for the branching storyline across multiple games, Dragon Age on the other hand seems to be moving along a more set in stone "canon" main story route.

Only because, as Cyberfrog said, Gaider has no respect for player decisions. This is entirely a failing of the head writer. They didn't sit down and decide "let's make a jRPG out of Dragon Age, the players shouldn't get any meaningful decisions." That's stupid.

FFZero wrote:
DA2 struck me as a game where the developers didn’t really know what they wanted to do with the franchise they’d created. I don’t think they were expecting DAO to be as well received as it was so when writing started on DA2 they were like “okay wtf do we do?” and then decided on creating a very convoluted story with various plot lines but no clear narrative.

That and in every area it felt like they were taking two steps back then falling off a cliff. To go from the in depth character interaction in DAO to ME’s character interaction in DA2 was a huge let down for me, especially since it was only because the dev’s wanted the game to flow more cinematically. Does anyone else here ever feel like BW devs need to be reminded that they are making video games and not movies?

Once again, it's because of Gaider's badness. He can't handle it when one of his "moral dilemmas" isn't so much of a dilemma. When the playerbase slants too much in one direction. As it turns out, not too many people picked the "yes, let's brutally murder children because some religious nutjob said it's probably a good idea" option at the Circle Tower in DAO. No really, Wynne won't take "I annul now!" no matter how belligerently you try. You actually have to go through dialogue and pick the option of "yes, I understand this option murders kids, and I choose to kill terrified children." It's such a wonder why this was an unpopular option! Someone call fucking Unsolved Mysteries! So Gaider got his panties in a twist and decided the next game would be about showing us the dangers of magic and why the templars aren't just plain evil.

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Humakt on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:46 pm

Man, Return to Ostagar sucks.....

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Norlond on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:09 am

I hope DA3 addresses the issue of Leliana's resurrection...

Humakt83 wrote:Man, Return to Ostagar sucks.....
It does, nothing of importance to loot there, and naive King Cailan might as well rot hanging there

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by southbeatz on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:16 am

I had thought about getting DA2 before but never did because I heard too often that it sucked but I did like DAO. Would DA2 be worth buying before DA3?
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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Norlond on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:37 am

Well it explains the whole conflict in DA3 and sets up the Qunari storyline, so I think you should play it before DA3, but maybe stick to the main-questline and the qunari-sidequests, the rest is a waste of time... kinda...
Mark of the Assassin and Legacy are relatively nice DLCs though, nothing groundbreaking, but better than the main-game, so you may want to consider buying those too

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Re: The Dragon Age Thread

Post by Andromidius on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:51 am

Humakt83 wrote:Man, Return to Ostagar sucks.....

I liked it. I used the armour I found there for quite some time. And after I didn't need it, I gave it to Alistair.

Anyway. The problems with DA2 were fixable. I think that's what pisses the fans off most - it was abandoned, when some patching, DLC or a mini-expansion could have solved all its problems.

1/ Plot retcons, character resurrections? Fixed.

2/ New locations? Fixed.

3/ Less intrusive or emotionally needy companions? Fixed.

4/ Railroading? Fixed.

Etc. Wouldn't even need to add much in the way of 'new' content then, the fix would make the game enjoyable and prime for proper DLC. Think 'Extended Cut' but done properly and actually improving the game.

But no, game gets abandoned so they can work on DA3. It better not suck.
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