ME1 ME2 ME3 Preparing For The Worst

Has anyone ever thought about ME2 almost being a prep at times for ME3? I'll provide some examples after my recent play through of ME2. It seems every time I play I think of things I didn't think of before. Miranda's loyalty mission is dealing with keeping her sister safe, choosing to kill or just be pissed at her friend, also her father is someone she seemed furious with in ME2 although he doesn't make an appearance until ME3. Jacob's loyalty mission was to find his father and well we all know how that ended up but it ended with choices of his father living to be arrested, dying, being left to the hell he created.

Garrus's loyalty mission was about betrayal, do we kill this guy or get Garrus to let him live? Jack's loyalty mission was about the abuse she received as a child and the torture she endured then faced with an option to spare or kill this one dude. I can't remember these people's names that are barely in the game lol. Grunt's loyalty is about him becoming an adult but also fighting with other clans potentially losing lives. Mordin's loyalty was about the genophage and his friend Maelon. Do we spare Maelon or kill him for his barbaric experiments? Do we keep the genophage data to potentially use later for a potential cure or do we destroy it and basically give the Krogan a fuck you?

Samara's loyalty mission is to deal with her daughter and stop her from murdering people but then we have the choice of picking between the two of them as to who to keep on the Normandy. Thane's loyalty mission is to help prevent his son from making mistakes and ending up in prison or dead. Tali's loyalty mission is to clear her name in court, protect or insult her father's name, take a shot at brokering future peace with the Geth, get friends of Tali's to come to her aide in court willing to sacrifice everything to help her. Then we get Legion's loyalty mission. We end up with the choice to re-write or destroy the heretic Geth. If we destroy them that is some form of murder, if we re-write them then we are no better than a Reaper for our own form of indoctrination.

ME2 was just packed full of strong moral choices. I only mentioned the 12 loyalty missions. There's more in ME2 but those seem to cover the point the best. Was ME2 mere just an awesome game with sometimes tough choices or was it some sort of preparation for the tougher choices to be made in ME3? I have opinions on this but would like to know what others think about it. There's also quite a bit in ME1 that can add to this I think.

Uhm interesting perspective. In way yeah some of ME2 missions were quite difficult to decide in a moral way, ME1 had some as well. I guess in way the choices get bigger in each game, which makes sense of course since the climax of the story it's in ME3.
The point you make about the preparation makes sense has we have to decide on what to do with Maelon's research for e.g., and in a way that sets the way to the Genophage's cure and our decision there. In ME1 the Rachni's Queen arch it's also important later on and the choice has some importance too: if you kill her you will face a less trustworthy one later on, if you saved her you get an ally.
ME is a game full of this hard but at the same time amazing choices that makes us think and find out our feelings about some subjects, like Artificial Intelligence for e.g.

Yea, I totally agree. One thing I meant to mention but forgot to was that I felt ME2's loyalty missions, in a way, were some sort of preparation for the decision chamber on ME3. I know we want IT to be revealed and all that other good stuff but for the sake of conversation, if Bioware doesn't reveal or if Bioware makes the decision chamber choices actually matter then these choices from ME2 loyalty missions could help everyone to realize that there is not always a happy perfect result to be had for every situation.

The heretic Geth on Legion's loyalty mission play a small part towards the Geth and Quarian peace in ME3 but do you re-write or indoctrinate them to make them good again? That is almost Reaper logic or do you destroy them thus murdering a lot of Geth that likely just made poor choices. I know destroying them supposedly helps towards peace in ME3 but it still goes to the decision chamber since Reaper Kid claims Destroy ending will effect the Geth as well as the Reapers. I think some of the things on ME2 loyalty missions simply cover a broader outcome based on choice.

Jacob's loyalty mission proves that sometimes there is no happy ending possible in a mission since that one doesn't truly have a happy ending no matter how it's done. ME1 had some big choices but I think ME2 was in many ways a huge preparation for what would come in ME3. The new style of combat, choices that can potentially effect hundreds, thousands or potentially even millions of lives.

The suicide mission also was a test I think. The first time playing it, you send a tech into the vents. I would assume that on everyone's first time playing it they would have a fear that the tech they send might die and that is possible if the loyalty missions were not completed but you have to risk a squad mate's life regardless. I think it just all goes back to that Shepard cannot save everyone and sometimes there will be losses that cannot be avoided and ME2 I felt done such a superb job of previewing what was to come in ME3 regarding choices.

ME2 I don't think needed to be over dramatic or have some super threat. I never felt that the Collectors were a huge threat, more like a bump in the road but a lot of the missions inbetween had a lot of story I felt and meaning. I think ME2 was the actual masterpiece of the series so far. ME1 I think was perfect for introducing the series, ME2 had a lot of content and was huge on character development. Take a look at James and Javik in ME3. We talk to them, get to know them but we never got to help them with anything really important to them, aside from fighting Reapers.

In ME1 we helped Garrus with that one Doctor butcher person, we helped Wrex find his family armor, we helped Tali with Geth data for her pilgrimage. We helped Liara step away from her mother's shadow. I think Kaiden and Ashley are mostly throw ins even though I'm sure people will disagree. I never felt much depth from those two in any play through and they both try to ride Shepard's ass over Cerberus in ME2 and 3.

southbeatz wrote:

The heretic Geth on Legion's loyalty mission play a small part towards the Geth and Quarian peace in ME3 but do you re-write or indoctrinate them to make them good again? That is almost Reaper logic or do you destroy them thus murdering a lot of Geth that likely just made poor choices. I know destroying them supposedly helps towards peace in ME3 but it still goes to the decision chamber since Reaper Kid claims Destroy ending will effect the Geth as well as the Reapers. I think some of the things on ME2 loyalty missions simply cover a broader outcome based on choice.

Good catch. It's like a foreshadowing on Control and Destroy.

southbeatz wrote:The suicide mission also was a test I think. The first time playing it, you send a tech into the vents. I would assume that on everyone's first time playing it they would have a fear that the tech they send might die and that is possible if the loyalty missions were not completed but you have to risk a squad mate's life regardless. I think it just all goes back to that Shepard cannot save everyone and sometimes there will be losses that cannot be avoided and ME2 I felt done such a superb job of previewing what was to come in ME3 regarding choices.

As I was reading that I remember the first time I did the suicide mission, I could even hear my hearbeat lol. Never before a game made me feel so nervous about what was going to happen next, it was amazing.

southbeatz wrote:
In ME1 we helped Garrus with that one Doctor butcher person, we helped Wrex find his family armor, we helped Tali with Geth data for her pilgrimage. We helped Liara step away from her mother's shadow. I think Kaidan and Ashley are mostly throw ins even though I'm sure people will disagree. I never felt much depth from those two in any play through and they both try to ride Shepard's ass over Cerberus in ME2 and 3.

I understand what you said and why you say it, it would have been cool if they had added a similar mission to Kaidan and Ashley that allow more players to connect with them. The same goes for ME2, I which there was a mission similar to what Shadow Broker mission was to Liara, that allowed Shepard to reconnect with them or at least make them understand a little better what was happening in ME2. Regarding they distrust on Shepard because of Cerberus I think it's understandable, well on my opinion, because they had no freaking idea what was going on, which was both theirs and Shepard's fault for the lack of effort to contact each other and talk about it.
Of course I'm hardly being objective since they're my favourite characters, maybe you could try romance one of them in the future and maybe you'll see them in a different light :P .

Lol, I've done every romance before at some point with male and female Shepard just to see it since I'm one of those that likes 100% completion in games so it was more of a wanting to see different things in the games. I never actually had dislike towards Ashley or Kaiden, I really just felt that they could have been done much better. In ME1 there's quite a bit of good conversation with them and well in ME3 it seems the bulk of their conversation is the auto dialogue bs.

I guess Bioware didn't intend to touch on the Cerberus and Shepard thing as good as they could have. Shepard should have had the option to just say it like it was to others and directly to TIM. I felt Shepard should appreciate TIM giving him/her a second chance in life to fight the Reapers but also felt Shepard should have been clear to TIM and people like Ashley/Kaiden and others that Shepard was merely paying a debt so to speak. TIM brings Shepard back to life to fight and all TIM asks is for Shepard to wipe out the Collectors so at face value TIM is being very generous. I even believe Shepard should give the Collector base to TIM even though I know what happens in ME3 lol.

We all know that it won't matter anyways in ME3 but it would be fair from a realistic perspective. Aside from Cerberus going nuts and crazy in ME3, I think it was far more enjoyable to work for TIM than the Alliance. He basically stayed out of Shepard's way unless he had something of actual importance to say and anytime Shepard went against Cerberus like Jack's loyalty mission or Project Overlord to name a couple, TIM would accept it although likely not too thrilled about it.

I guess that can be another thing in ME2 lol. TIM let's us do whatever it takes to get the job done. The Alliance might want us to get the job done but if we do anything bad like on the Arrival DLC the Alliance would want to punish Shepard for it where as I believe TIM would say it was unfortunate but saved far more lives than it cost. It's obvious TIM was far more ready for a war than the Alliance was and that is obvious when Earth is invaded by the Reapers. Maybe we can get a ME4 without all of the politics and such bs. I'd personally rather ME4 and beyond (if they make a ME4) to have us as a character (Shepard or someone else) not in the military ever or not in the military anymore just to avoid some of that.

southbeatz wrote:Lol, I've done every romance before at some point with male and female Shepard just to see it since I'm one of those that likes 100% completion in games so it was more of a wanting to see different things in the games. I never actually had dislike towards Ashley or Kaiden, I really just felt that they could have been done much better. In ME1 there's quite a bit of good conversation with them and well in ME3 it seems the bulk of their conversation is the auto dialogue bs.

I guess Bioware didn't intend to touch on the Cerberus and Shepard thing as good as they could have. Shepard should have had the option to just say it like it was to others and directly to TIM. I felt Shepard should appreciate TIM giving him/her a second chance in life to fight the Reapers but also felt Shepard should have been clear to TIM and people like Ashley/Kaiden and others that Shepard was merely paying a debt so to speak. TIM brings Shepard back to life to fight and all TIM asks is for Shepard to wipe out the Collectors so at face value TIM is being very generous. I even believe Shepard should give the Collector base to TIM even though I know what happens in ME3 lol.

We all know that it won't matter anyways in ME3 but it would be fair from a realistic perspective. Aside from Cerberus going nuts and crazy in ME3, I think it was far more enjoyable to work for TIM than the Alliance. He basically stayed out of Shepard's way unless he had something of actual importance to say and anytime Shepard went against Cerberus like Jack's loyalty mission or Project Overlord to name a couple, TIM would accept it although likely not too thrilled about it.

I guess that can be another thing in ME2 lol. TIM let's us do whatever it takes to get the job done. The Alliance might want us to get the job done but if we do anything bad like on the Arrival DLC the Alliance would want to punish Shepard for it where as I believe TIM would say it was unfortunate but saved far more lives than it cost. It's obvious TIM was far more ready for a war than the Alliance was and that is obvious when Earth is invaded by the Reapers. Maybe we can get a ME4 without all of the politics and such bs. I'd personally rather ME4 and beyond (if they make a ME4) to have us as a character (Shepard or someone else) not in the military ever or not in the military anymore just to avoid some of that.

Someone's a TIM fan Joking aside It's true that he's a better boss then the Alliance ever was. Also about ME4: BioWare already stated that the next protagonist is not tied to the Alliance so your wishes should come true, *crosses fingers* here's hoping.

I sure hope so lol. I felt like the Alliance and even the Council at times were getting in Shepard's way. Unlike some people, I can accept Shepard being out of the series and given a new character in ME4. I have had good times playing as Shepard but really they went too big too soon and what else can Shepard do after defeating the Reapers? It might be best to replace Shepard with someone that doesn't have those insane expectations placed on them. I really would prefer it to be more like ME2 where the vibe of the game is more mellow but has plenty of drama and emotion in missions but the overall vibe isn't as pressured.

I am a fan of TIM lol but also not a fan of TIM. Bioware kind of went screwy with that one. We know without any doubt that TIM was indoctrinated in ME3 and that is why he changed so much. In ME2 his eyes say he should be indoctrinated and supposedly he was exposed during the first contact war but in ME2 he wasn't bad at all. I never really thought about it this way before, not sure why but Cerberus is an enemy in ME1 and huge enemy in ME3 yet in ME2 we work for them the entire game lol. Maybe that could be enough to not be annoyed by Kaiden/Ashley for being skeptical in ME3.

southbeatz wrote: I am a fan of TIM lol but also not a fan of TIM. Bioware kind of went screwy with that one. We know without any doubt that TIM was indoctrinated in ME3 and that is why he changed so much. In ME2 his eyes say he should be indoctrinated and supposedly he was exposed during the first contact war but in ME2 he wasn't bad at all. I never really thought about it this way before, not sure why but Cerberus is an enemy in ME1 and huge enemy in ME3 yet in ME2 we work for them the entire game lol. Maybe that could be enough to not be annoyed by Kaiden/Ashley for being skeptical in ME3.

I think towards the ending he got more desperate to "save humanity", and if you add that to the implants and the continuous contact he had with Reaper Artefacts, he's state declined faster then it ever did. He was a mastermind though, like it's mention in the game by Hackett or Anderson, if they had joined forces I'm sure he's ideas would have helped immensely in the war.

Back to the topic though I really like how every side mission in ME2 seemed to have some moral decision sooner or later, from the top of my head I can recall the one where you have to decide to save the colony's apartments or industries. Those were the little details that made it worth doing all of them, for me at least. Unfortunately I think that ME3 seemed to lack that since it only added some EMS, and even though it was important in the long run, It would have been better if they had actually showed off those resources we worked so hard to get actually in action against the Reapers.
In my opinion though the most difficult decision was actually on Arrival, even though we barely decide, it was a warning that soon enough the war would begin and we could have to sacrifice a species to save the galaxy.

ME3 at times did feel like it's all about gaining higher EMS yet Bioware didn't take the time to give us any good cut scenes of our high EMS in action. After we cure the Genophage we find out that the Krogan and Turians are doing ok against the Reapers but that's all we get, no video no anything just a few words in a conversation on the Normandy. I know we get a scene before leaving Tuchanka but that felt more directly related to the Genophage and nothing to do with EMS and war assets.

I had thought about before that maybe Cerberus and Cronos Station should have been more like mid way in the game to offer a chance to get TIM to join us but then I realized even if that happened he'd just become a war asset and mean nothing really. I think ME2 got things right aside from removing exploration like we did with the Mako. The side quests didn't need to be anything huge or special but they were fun and a nice way of stepping away from the main quests. In ME3 they could have used side quests as a way to obtain war assets instead of just flying near a planet and doing an area scan and somehow magically have the item we're after just be beamed up I guess lol.

southbeatz wrote:ME3 at times did feel like it's all about gaining higher EMS yet Bioware didn't take the time to give us any good cut scenes of our high EMS in action. After we cure the Genophage we find out that the Krogan and Turians are doing ok against the Reapers but that's all we get, no video no anything just a few words in a conversation on the Normandy. I know we get a scene before leaving Tuchanka but that felt more directly related to the Genophage and nothing to do with EMS and war assets.

I had thought about before that maybe Cerberus and Cronos Station should have been more like mid way in the game to offer a chance to get TIM to join us but then I realized even if that happened he'd just become a war asset and mean nothing really. I think ME2 got things right aside from removing exploration like we did with the Mako. The side quests didn't need to be anything huge or special but they were fun and a nice way of stepping away from the main quests. In ME3 they could have used side quests as a way to obtain war assets instead of just flying near a planet and doing an area scan and somehow magically have the item we're after just be beamed up I guess lol.

Like that rescue mission for the Elcor? That mission gets in my nerves I tell you. So much freaking potential, a great opportunity to show us their world and them fighting like we heard about. Nope you search the planet and vacuum them into the ship somehow and that's it...Yep thanks BioWare .

Yea.. I'd of been happy with those quests being like the short quests on ME2 from scanning planets. Like the planet we find an injured Quarian on in ME2 and protect her while the shuttle comes to get us. ME3 could have had some Quarian on the Citadel looking for a lost Quarian, just saying this as it could have been a potential idea. Going to the Elcor world would have been interesting even if it was a 2 or 3 minute mission.

All the war assets we get from planning scanning could have involved short missions to fight to get to them and then they offer to help us in the war against the Reapers since we helped them but instead Bioware wanted us to planet scan and auto collect and complete quests without actually doing quests or exploring.