Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:15 am

Ok to put some more speculation on to other aspects apart from the DLC and ending per se.

This is going to be long I can already sense it. Sorry about that writing is not my forte.

We have many oddities. The crucible, The Beam, the run down to the beam, the lack of any reaper ground forces to protect the beam, the unexplained non-military like operation of the whole run down to the beam, the normandy evac scene, teammates are now ready to follow Shepard's orders to leave hims behind but were never going to do that anytime before this time. etc etc

But lets focus on some more subtle points.

We know the reapers create a large capital class vessels at the end of a cycle, so far the in-game lore supports that 1 such reaper ship is made (correct me if am wrong) for every cycle.

ME2 showed the collectors were doing the slave work for the reapers to build the proto reaper of human form which will then get enclosed in the outer cuttle fish shell. That fella went toast thanks to Shepard. Shepard

Aww how sad the plan failed. But wait, we know they have to make one reaper ship this cycle thats the end purpose of the cycles, a means to maintain their edge and grow their numbers a reproduction if you will. Forget the mumbo jumbo of the circular logic that the catalyst offers. We must think outside the box while still staying with the lore of the game, so where is that proto-reaper then? They have lost a lot of time on this proto reaper at the collector base because Shepard had everything undone for them.

In the ending of the SM in ME2:

Harbinger: You have failed, we will find another way.

Yeah I was wondering what that other way was and I think there may a few ways for that being possible again, a clever way that too.

So we know at Cronos station, smug mr TIM comes through his holoprojector and says he has informed the reaper forces what the catalyst really was and that prompted the citadel to be moved to earth. Citadel is the catalyst as the V.I vendetta alleges, yes am using the word ‘alleges’ as there is no need to really trust what he says.

Lets hold the above discussion in our minds while we jump to some details on other aspects all tying into the bigger picture

Crucible: Everyone from Anderson to Hackett to Liara, claim they don't know what the crucible does yet they know it’s a weapon that "will win them this war" Do you see the problem with this logic?

They have a schematic they follow on and then build on it but they have no idea what it does. thats just as dangerous as building a WMD without knowing how it’s supposed to work, what safetys you need to take what side effects it going to leave on the any world, let alone earth.

I know whats the first thing that comes to mind for some: badd ritting lulz

Perhaps it not, not even by a long shot.

Let say the crucible was not designed by cycles of past times as in the baseline work. It was rather given to them eons ago with a label saying "here is a weapon schematic thats not fully completed". This will give the true impression that its a genuine work but never completed on time because the reapers were too hard to deal with and build the thing in time. Plus if they never knew what it really does what guarantee you have that you can complete it with pace? You can only do so much with following schematics and putting in your ideas over a design you don't really understand.

What if its the reapers who provided this schematic in the first place? They leave it to be found and then the illusion is complete by virtue of its lack of completeness. Leaving something thats fully completed can raise suspicions as to how the reapers never took the time to find this annoyance in many cycles to get rid of it. If it’s complete it probably would have been atleast attempted at to be used as the pace to complete it is going to be faster.

So Reapers want this stuff to be built and waste the enemy’s resources and minerals for building this while the galaxy also tries to guard it and waste time on it while the reapers attack and pillage worlds of their citizens through harvesting. Very cunning. But then why have this, what is it going to do? Much speculations have already been put forward by some on the IT threads, what was not done probably was how it all connects to the whole picture, that's what am trying to do here in this post.

Coming back to where that missing proto-reaper ship is now.

So they lost their human reaper, they can just go back and start building a new reaper from other races now since they have launched their full blown ass whopping of the galaxy, no real issues there. But there is something that suggests why that hasn't happened.

Harbinger: Human: viable possibility, impressive genetic malleability
Harbinger: Human: viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled
Harbinger: Human: viable possibility, impressive technical potential.
Harbinger: Human: viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated.
Harbinger: Human: viable possibility, great biotic potential.

Those are his direct quotes, notice how he is impressed with humans in general, while his words for other species is one of "Meh"

Mordin said this himself: Humans offer great genetic diversity, makes sense as control group in tests. But immoral will never use humans in studies. Messy.

So we can now establish there is a genuine interest in the humans of this cycle compared to other races present during this period. It is no wonder the proto reaper was being built at the collector base using humans.

But Shepard destroyed that embryo.

Harbinger wants to still ‘find another way’, remember? He and his gang infact can….

Its full blown war, reapers are getting killed, when from what we can understand they have never lost capitals ships like this cycle in the past. They are obviously threatened by Shepard and the races of this cycle.

Then when its time for end-game, they quickly mobilize the citadel aka catalyst to earth. In-order to protect themselves from supposed threat this citadel now poses to them reapers. Shepard’s main in the game of ME3 is to retake earth and that serving as the main victory to driving out the reapers from other lands. So much is at stake when other races are pulling forces from their planets to aid earth. I don’t know about others but I think if am those aliens I will think hard and long before committing my forces to help another race when my own people are dying. It should be worth it. It should matter. Reapers know this, they are veterans of this ‘cycle’ business.

TIM is indoctrinated he already knows what the alliance is upto with the crucible. Yet the reapers don’t take the citadel away from earth rather beings it to earth. That’s a bone headed move even for a pompus army to bring you major weakness to the battlefield. They sure are arrogant in their belief they can’t be beaten, but they have seen their member nazar being killed, they know they can take loses too. This cycle is different for many reason.s They also know a kamikaze attack on the citadel to use it can open themselves to a huge risk. They should rather destroy it than to take the risk of having it exposed to possible boarding. Besides how stupid is it to bring your greatest threat the citadel to the battlefield? No they are not stupid in the slightest.

People can argue "oh but the crucible is being built and if it docks with the catalyst they can get the job done that’s why reapers are protecting it". New flash: the reaper forces are vast they can come right after your crucible than wait for you all at earth. They are way more than capable to punch through all defenses and paralyze the whole fleet, let’s not kid our selves with gung ho ideas. The fleets on earth were only a small portion of what was spread throughout the galaxy. We saw their sheer numbers at the end of ME2 it was a like storm from a bee nest, way too many, lord almighty there were too many of them in that cut scene!

Unless that’s also lulz badd editing

So no they are not trying to defend the citadel from being used infact they are trolling the whole galaxy, come and get it, here kiddy kiddy, here shepy shepy, come and get it.

Also explains why there was no real defense to the citadel beam, only harbinger shows up, he sure can fire a lot of beams but if someone sends in an army of dedicated soldiers supported by ships, gunships and fighters to distract, someone is bound to make it through to the beam, unlike the feeble group that hammer had to send in there.

It was a trap, a lure.

They wanted someone to make it in, harbinger even probably knew (who knows how) Shepard will be part of the team to attack it.

So that’s all good, it’s a trap, fine. But what for?

Remember they wanted to build a human reaper? Well, all their human harvesting has gone to waste and they want to end this cycle and get what they wanted before they go on the rampage and orbital bomb every other planet to dust. The beam + citadel + crucible are the means to that. It probably indoctrinates the whole planet and everything nearby in one blast easy to just shepard everyone to the processing plants to be harvested (see what I did there?), no more resistance on earth its over in one blow. They can happily build their human reaper and be done with their aim for this cycle, the rest of the systems will take years for the reapers to wipe out but they will take their time and get it done. Probably enjoy it as they do it, oh! there goes one into that cave pew pew, high fives harby!

This also proves why the reapers like to come through the citadel in the past cycles into the heart of civilization, not only does it cripple the HQ of galactic society, they also control the key back up plan in case someone like Shepard destroys their proto reaper plans. Also we can only speculate why they have to resort to building the proto reaper in secret, was this always the plan? Maybe explains why the crucible can be seen as a backup, which they cunningly use to fool the galaxy into thinking it’s a weapon for their cause. Maybe the secret building of proto reaper was this cycle specific and the plan was to always use the trap instead. Only a bioware reveal can put this straight.

So now that we can say the whole thing is a trap, why do they need Shepard? This could be done by any human that tries to go up, right?

Again lets go back to Mr Handsome.

Harbinger: “Preserve Shepard's body if possible.”

He does reference about trying to get Shepard to submit his mind as well.

So he can do with just shepard’s body, getting his mind is a bonus. Not sure why that is aye?

Oh but wait, there is a hint.

Leviathan says Shepard is an anomaly. The Leviathan takes one deep look at shepard and confirms this in that DLC. He is an anomaly, but in what way? Mind? Body? Maybe both?

There were a lot of suggestions Javik was the catalyst of the previous cycle in the original version before the leaks? Bioware can easily switch that around and give a bluff with the godchild when Shepard is infact the true catalyst to this cycle. But why Shepard, it can be anyone else as well, why him?, its easy if we keep in mind it is humans they are after in this cycle for reaper building. They will find another way and they have, all they need is Shepard to complete the reaction that sets off the trap.

The Starchild is either the reaper collective or harbinger himself trying to fool Shepard into not realizing they have set a trap, also pompously claiming it’s the catalyst. We have seen above how that doesn’t make much sense especially given how the reapers have played their hand so far. Leviathan also says Shepard is an anomaly. Well we don’t see Shepard with any super human powers, unless you play him as a biotic, but they are not anomalies for leviathan you can play the biotic capable class and you still get the same thing, you/Shepard are an anomaly. Makes sense now given how harbinger too has special interest in shepard. We can now argue TIM rebuilt Shepard with reaper tech from the subconscious control he was under from the reapers; they wanted this. Cerberus is really just a distraction the reapers play in every cycle to have more chaos. It is classic divide and conquer modus operandi. Javik also talks about a splinter group in his time much like Cerberus trying to control the reapers when really they are just pawns.

Reapers have used Cerberus as pawns, it is not a stretch to imagine how all this is another back up they used now since their human proto-reaper was gone. They have witnessed countless cycles they are very methodical in their extermination very precise, leaving only what they want to be found. They can and have left the plans to the crucible as the perfect deception.
And Shepard is important to their cause because he is the true catalyst he is that anomaly for this cycle as humans are the main target for reaper building. His name is also apt, ‘shepard’ as he steers his people either into doom or liberation. It is upto shepard/player to make the right call.

Casey Hudson revealed they removed the boss fight with TIM as It was too video gamey and wanted the talk with the boy catalyst to be on a more ‘high level’ state . That’s interesting because when you ask details that's low level poking around. They only wanted what you to know what bioware wanted you to hear from stareaper’s perspective; you didn’t have to know the secrets. Hmm like what the crucible was really a bout? ;)

There is good reason why the supposed citadel DLC could be in fact called “Citadel”, because it should expose the biggest lie that it’s not the catalyst but just part of a bigger trap like the crucible is.

Lets not forget that people have gone through the beam and have come back ‘changed’ as reported in one of the data pads you find. Reapers can do what Shepard was offered, offer them the same choices give the poor suckers a nice speech on how he/she succeeded in reaching there and can end this, control or synthesize. Ah but they want Shepard, it is only for Shepard. He is the anomaly, others are not. Maybe we will learn how he is the anomaly and therefore why he is the catalyst in this new DLC.

I am sure lots of ideas will be there to supplement this or be against this, this is just a possible theory.

And thank you for reading this.


Last edited by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:17 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : formatting)
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by dorktainian on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:16 am

nice.

_________________
avatar
dorktainian
Catalyst

Posts : 3499
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 48

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:07 pm

dork wrote:nice.

Thank you.

But maybe you have some specific comments? Can't be all nice, its still a theory. :)
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by ElSuperGecko on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:28 pm

Great post, and mirrors a lot of my thoughts on the ending.

Bioware never intended for the endings to be what you see is what you get. We know this. They left us with a mystery, they wanted us to speculate.

We're getting close. I can feel it.

_________________
avatar
ElSuperGecko
Space Cow

Posts : 800
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : Lying unconcious in a pile of rebar and rubble...

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by pasza89 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:03 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:We're getting close. I can feel it.

Well, we have to. I've been holding that damn line for so long, that if it turns out to be a waste of time, I may hurt someone with it
avatar
pasza89
Pod Crab

Posts : 33
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 28
Location : pl

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:03 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:Great post, and mirrors a lot of my thoughts on the ending.

Bioware never intended for the endings to be what you see is what you get. We know this. They left us with a mystery, they wanted us to speculate.

We're getting close. I can feel it.

Thank you for the feedback!

Yeah there is a lot to be explained in terms of how the reapers intended to complete their purpose of making that reaper.

The subtle and damning clues everywhere leaves us with only one possibility, what we saw is definitely not the end of this conflict.

pasza89 wrote:
ElSuperGecko wrote:We're getting close. I can feel it.

Well, we have to. I've been holding that damn line for so long, that if it turns out to be a waste of time, I may hurt someone with it

Lol, but hey atleast they may leave it open ended like how it is now.

The next DLC if its about the citadel, may actually give us hints about the deception it possibly is.
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by Baranus33 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:35 am

have you noticed how much of the crucible is completed between going to Mars and the talk with Hackett after Sur'Kesh? it is bonkers
avatar
Baranus33
Pod Crab

Posts : 40
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 28
Location : New England

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by BleedingUranium on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:12 am

This is a great post! I'd try to add stuff, but I'm tired right now :/
avatar
BleedingUranium
Thresher Maw

Posts : 1921
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 24
Location : BC, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:13 am

Baranus33 wrote:have you noticed how much of the crucible is completed between going to Mars and the talk with Hackett after Sur'Kesh? it is bonkers

Errm, don't remember, can you tell me though? Not sure I follow your drift.

Was it less, half way or most of it?
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:16 am

BleedingUranium wrote:This is a great post! I'd try to add stuff

Thank you BleedingUranium!, looking forward to your inputs once you get the time. Very Happy

BleedingUranium wrote:but I'm tired right now :/

You should go Shepard

...to get some rest I mean. Laughing
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:28 am

Wow, I actually said a bunch of this last night to my increasingly annoyed boyfriend :P

Very good way of putting this idea though, and some parts I didn't consider at all.



Also: "Harbinger: Human: viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled"

I think even Destroyers can be manipulated, just not indoctrinated to the Reaper cause itself.

But Destroy is the only weapon/method shown to be effective against the Reapers. They are masters of everything else. PEW PEW!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by Baranus33 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:20 am

windsurfing wrote:
Baranus33 wrote:have you noticed how much of the crucible is completed between going to Mars and the talk with Hackett after Sur'Kesh? it is bonkers

Errm, don't remember, can you tell me though? Not sure I follow your drift.

Was it less, half way or most of it?

if I remember correctly it is atleast halfway done or seemed so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJCE_UlJmTQ&t=14m22s
avatar
Baranus33
Pod Crab

Posts : 40
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 28
Location : New England

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:18 am

SwobyJ wrote:Wow, I actually said a bunch of this last night to my increasingly annoyed boyfriend :P

Very good way of putting this idea though, and some parts I didn't consider at all.

Glad more people see things this way, so its not just me. Very Happy




Baranus33 wrote:
windsurfing wrote:
Baranus33 wrote:have you noticed how much of the crucible is completed between going to Mars and the talk with Hackett after Sur'Kesh? it is bonkers

Errm, don't remember, can you tell me though? Not sure I follow your drift.

Was it less, half way or most of it?

if I remember correctly it is atleast halfway done or seemed so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJCE_UlJmTQ&t=14m22s

Thanks for the video link.

Going by usual ship building procedures (the crucible also has self propulsion from what we can see in the final cut scenes) The outer hull, or in this case the 'main body' gets to be worked on first before innards, other Electronics, chambers, sections, pathways, bulkheads, structural seams etc are constructed.

Lets assume like you say most of it was completed, which is unlikely judging from that video sequence like I suggested above, they are still following the Mars archives data which is still as they all put it an incomplete device. The problem remains, they somehow know its going work for their cause yet they don't know what it does. The perfect deception.
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by southbeatz on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:29 am

One thing to keep in mind is that roughly going by the time line in the game I would say aorund 6 months pass after the initial Reaper invasion on Earth. The Protheans were far more advanced but yet they fought for over 200 years and still lost. This current cycle seemingly can end the Reapers in 6 months? That alone should scream something is really not right here or really horrible writing.

I think the Reapers are playing everyone and have several plans in motion to compensate for any unexpected changes. The Reapers supposedly have been doing this for millions of years so I'm sure they have seen probably every type of strategy from Species they've harvested in the past. Over time, cycle after cycle, the Reapers probably have placed in motion different plans. The Reapers were created to find a way to bring order to the chaos of basically war between organic and synthetic so it would be smart for the Reapers to try a variety of things each cycle, one of which being the Human-Reaper which would be considerably different from other Reapers.

I know Bioware can in one single DLC prove many of us right or totally wrong but that shouldn't stop us from picking at this trying to figure it out anyways lol. The Reapers were created to look for a way to make organic and synthetic not end up in the same cycle of war as each wants what the other has which neither can have both of. A while back I deleted my save games for whatever reason who knows but I wanted a reason to play the series through again when I heard about the upcoming DLC originally so I figured delete my saves forces me to play and enjoy the series again but I also decided to record videos from the game as well.

It's surprising how before I looked through the crazy amount of videos and information on IT as to how many things I never thought much of while playing in the past. The conversation with Sovereign in ME1 on Virmire tells completely different things from what is said later in ME2 and ME3. He speaks of organics as a mutation, an accident. He talks about extinction, he also claims to have no beginning so he must not want to admit that Leviathan were before the Reapers.

It's a shame that I don't believe Bioware will take advantage of what all they've left the door open for. There's so much speculation, theories, in-game evidence of many things. They could easily push out another 3 or more games in this trilogy while keeping the story telling top notch. I know it's likely they'll end the Reapers with ME3 but it would be nice if they took advantage of what they got and continue to expand on it. The more they tell, the deeper they go into these stories could easily make them a lot of money with future Mass Effect games.

The Reapers supposedly have been around for millions of years and it took the Reapers over 200 years to finish off the Protheans so this current cycle winning in 6 months is just imo a slap in the face to Bioware themselves for botching some potential there in the story. This is of course if Bioware truly does intend to stop this Reaper saga after 3 games.

* I wanted to add one more thing. I believe all of this can easily be just the Reapers experimenting with each cycle in different ways. I do agree that the Reapers may have put the plans for the Crucible out there for Species to find while watching. Leviathan uses the ball artifact things to observe from a distance, so shouldn't the Reapers have something similar to observe from Dark Space to see how their experiments are going?
avatar
southbeatz
Geth Rocket Trooper

Posts : 230
Join date : 2013-01-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:44 am

southbeatz wrote:
I think the Reapers are playing everyone and have several plans in motion to compensate for any unexpected changes. The Reapers supposedly have been doing this for millions of years so I'm sure they have seen probably every type of strategy from Species they've harvested in the past. Over time, cycle after cycle, the Reapers probably have placed in motion different plans. The Reapers were created to find a way to bring order to the chaos of basically war between organic and synthetic so it would be smart for the Reapers to try a variety of things each cycle, one of which being the Human-Reaper which would be considerably different from other Reapers.

Thank you for your feedback southbeatz! Very Happy

That is exactly why this possible deception is even more palpable in this cycle.


southbeatz wrote:
The Reapers supposedly have been around for millions of years and it took the Reapers over 200 years to finish off the Protheans so this current cycle winning in 6 months is just imo a slap in the face to Bioware themselves for botching some potential there in the story. This is of course if Bioware truly does intend to stop this Reaper saga after 3 games.

Just makes the illusion even more complete.

Recall Javik says he never knew much about the crucible project, he heard about it but nothing much else. Who knows they figured out it was a lost cause because things felt fishy and they didn't know how to really works. Maybe they even tried it and it didn't do the job. Or if you ask me, MAYBE it did exactly what it was supposed to do, that is mass wide indoctrination of a large populous and there by complete the reaper goal of gathering their harvests for proto-reaper building.

Javik was long gone into deep hibernation before his race got wiped out for good. He wouldn't know what happened in the final hours.

southbeatz wrote:
* I wanted to add one more thing. I believe all of this can easily be just the Reapers experimenting with each cycle in different ways. I do agree that the Reapers may have put the plans for the Crucible out there for Species to find while watching. Leviathan uses the ball artifact things to observe from a distance, so shouldn't the Reapers have something similar to observe from Dark Space to see how their experiments are going?

Sovereign/Nazara was one such sentry/vanguard left behind by the reaper armada to lay dormant to, periodically (maybe every few thousands of years? ) wake up to check what is going on in the various civilizations. As soon as some of them reach space flight its the time to monitor them more closely on shorter intervals like maybe every 100 years or so.

It was mentioned somewhere in the codex or something that Sovereign used several agents apart from Saren.
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by southbeatz on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:14 am

Mostly I've been happy with the series aside from some of the obvious issues we all know about but I would feel that it'd be quite a waste if Bioware didn't have huge plans for years to come for this series. Like I said before, roughly 6 months into the Reaper war? That's simply too soon to end it. Being the Reapers, they can indoctrinate people like they did TIM and then Bioware could continue to expand on things. We don't need every moment and every mission to be millions of lives at stake fighting impossible odds every single time.

They could tone it down a bit with Harbinger playing a role from time to time in each game while manipulating the Galaxy. If I had any say in it, I'd probably want 6 games with the time line being roughly 5 or so years of war. To prevent loose ends near the end Leviathan could finally decide it's do or die time, for whatever reason, and fight the Reapers making for some crazy things for Shepard to have to deal with. Then we would have to find a way to stop both Leviathan and Reapers. Reapers can control but prefer to kill it seems while Leviathan prefers to control and enslave so neither of them should be allowed to exist.

I know this has gone off topic a bit from the original posts lol but I'm a bit tired, about to sleep so I'm just speaking on some thoughts I just had. They could also elaborate in future games as to why Shepard is an anomaly and reveal all of that on the last game. Imagine the reputation and money Bioware and even EA could make off of pulling out a huge story like that which likely would also very much entertain most people playing the series.

As it stands right now in the Mass Effect series, I feel I have more questions than answers and if Bioware doesn't do something about this then it would almost ruin the series for me. I know we can have our own ideas of what could or should happen or what did happen but if Bioware doesn't put it in the actual games then it didn't actually happen, that's just my opinion on that one. It would leave me feeling like so little was told.

As it currently stands while looking at this from an overall perspective from ME1 to ME3... A soldier named Shepard does heroic things, becomes a Spectre, saves the Citadel from Saren and a potential Reaper threat, works for Cerberus to stop the Reaper goons the Collectors, fights the Reapers and dances with StarBrat before puking (not shown in game but kind of amusing to think about lol) so there's really a lot that has not been touched on much or avoided by Bioware. They're wasting time adding all these things if they just want to leave it to us to speculate until Bioware is done with the series.
avatar
southbeatz
Geth Rocket Trooper

Posts : 230
Join date : 2013-01-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:38 am

southbeatz wrote:
As it stands right now in the Mass Effect series, I feel I have more questions than answers and if Bioware doesn't do something about this then it would almost ruin the series for me. I know we can have our own ideas of what could or should happen or what did happen but if Bioware doesn't put it in the actual games then it didn't actually happen, that's just my opinion on that one. It would leave me feeling like so little was told.

Thats 101% true, we can speculate all day even have very very compelling 99.99999% accurate facts that can back up I.T but we are not the writers, Bioware are. If they don't make it, its not canon.

They are standing on a gold mine, we'll have to hope they know what they are doing. I think they do, but I could wrong just the same.

*******

I hear ya, no problems with the off-topic stuff :) , all comments valuable!
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by Andromidius on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:50 am

The Crucible is just a giant battery. Which means its uses depend on what its plugged into.

So, hypothetically, assuming that this is definately a Reaper scheme or trap (which is probably is, let's be honest), its purpose is either:

1/ To power the Citadel, either as a superweapon or to open the Relay to Dark Space.

2/ As a power source for a new Reaper.

3/ To be a massive waste of time and resources for their victims.

Now, the third one we can discount since its wasteful and lacks machine logic. Why get someone to create something worthless when they could create something useful?

1 and 2 are more likely. It also explains why the 'Catalyst' might be pissed off with you if you have low EMS - the Crucible is crude and primative, of little practical use to the Reapers.

Now, let's go to London. To the Conduit beam.

We've deduced that its likely location is directly over the ruins of Vauxhaul Cross, MI6 headquarters. There are many tunnels and chambers underneith that, probably stretching underneith the Themes river. Meaning there might be a Proto-Reaper underneith the city, and those pylons we see are part of the construction!

The beam itself seems to originate from the Citadel, meaning its likely firing downwards and not upwards? So it might actually be an energy transfer into the Conduit?

Not enough data to really go further on that. But I'm getting the feeling things are going down in London more then them just building a teleporter pad for transporting bodies up to the Citadel!
avatar
Andromidius
Admin

Posts : 1153
Join date : 2013-01-07

http://indoctrinationtheory.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:03 am

Andromidius wrote:

Now, let's go to London. To the Conduit beam.

We've deduced that its likely location is directly over the ruins of Vauxhaul Cross, MI6 headquarters. There are many tunnels and chambers underneith that, probably stretching underneith the Themes river. Meaning there might be a Proto-Reaper underneith the city, and those pylons we see are part of the construction!

The beam itself seems to originate from the Citadel, meaning its likely firing downwards and not upwards? So it might actually be an energy transfer into the Conduit?

Not enough data to really go further on that. But I'm getting the feeling things are going down in London more then them just building a teleporter pad for transporting bodies up to the Citadel!

Wow thats goldmine right there Andromidius! Adds another dimension to the crucible deception.

Yeah we never know, it could be going downwards or upwards, nothing clear apart from the loading animation that gives shepards's supposed perspective of going upwards. Besides we are still assuming he is laying back on earth seeing it up all in his head like how leviathan can create a world for him to live and breath in as if it where real as anything else.

Thank you for these great feedback! This what I aimed to achieve, more ideas to be investigated on.


Last edited by windsurfing on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
avatar
windsurfing
Scion

Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Restroom, Deck 2, SR2 Normandy

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by Andromidius on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:22 am

The whole going up thing reminds me a lot about the Conduit on Ilos, which may have been Bioware's intention as well.

However, when we see a similar (or maybe the same?) beam up in the decision chamber, Shepard goes down when he/she leaps into it.
avatar
Andromidius
Admin

Posts : 1153
Join date : 2013-01-07

http://indoctrinationtheory.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:48 am

Andromidius wrote:The whole going up thing reminds me a lot about the Conduit on Ilos, which may have been Bioware's intention as well.

However, when we see a similar (or maybe the same?) beam up in the decision chamber, Shepard goes down when he/she leaps into it.

He shouldn't fall 'down' tho should he? there should be no gravity there. He should just 'float' What is creating gravity there? rotation? where? there should be no atmosphere there if they are in 'space'.

also....thinking about the whole decision chamber bullshit.

could the view of earth and space - and the battle be a virtual 360 degree environment projection? A trick of the mind?

_________________
avatar
dorktainian
Catalyst

Posts : 3499
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 48

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by Andromidius on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:54 am

Well it doesn't add up at all when you look at all the angles the Citadel must be at.

Shepard can see Earth directly above in the decision chamber. Meaning the Crucible is also above him, meaning the Crucible needed to dock while escaping Earth's gravity. Also meaning the Conduit beam also had to pass through where the Crucible now is.

Also, when the space-magic fires, the Citadel is now on its side, facing away from Earth. Meaning it pulled one hell of a fast spin in just a few seconds.

It just doesn't add up!
avatar
Andromidius
Admin

Posts : 1153
Join date : 2013-01-07

http://indoctrinationtheory.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by southbeatz on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:07 pm

I'll just repeat something I said yesterday. The Protheans fought for over 200 years and lost yet less advanced Humans and other Species can win in 6 months? I know what Bioware has done in the past and what they can do so I just find it hard to believe that Bioware doesn't have a deeper plan to all of this. I looked at BSN a few times lately, although I prefer to avoid it but it's been nearly a year and things regarding the Mass Effect series are possibly crazier than ever on several different forums. Does anyone think Bioware may have actually intentionally made a screwy original ending for the sake of all the buzz and attention it has caused Bioware and Mass Effect to receive in 2012 and going strong in 2013?

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong on any forum, even BSN, I think this proves that this series needs to live for many more sequels. We all have our opinions, some believe IT is a lie, some think IT is true, some have many other opinions, some think Synthesis is the best, etc. It just shows a crazy amount of interest in the game series regardless of ones opinion. If Bioware handles this right they could be seen as one of the best or the best developer atm and make more money from this series than they expected. I just feel at this point if they scrap the series after ME3 or take a huge different turn that they're making a few mistakes.

They could make a lot more money from all of this. They could give everyone a lot more to enjoy in the game series and to talk about. Bioware is simply sitting on a goldmine here so I really hope they think long term. Surely EA would even be on board for that given the amount of buzz this game series got in 2012 and is getting in 2013. EA wants to make profits, well this series can be a huge profit for many years to come if Bioware does it right. That would satisfy EA's greed, satisfy Bioware's "artistic integrity" as they call it and more importantly it would satisfy all of the fans of the series with more games to play, more adventures to enjoy, more stories to experience.
avatar
southbeatz
Geth Rocket Trooper

Posts : 230
Join date : 2013-01-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by Baranus33 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:19 pm

So I skipped visiting Javik after Eden Prime and did a random N7 mission instead. I found out to my surprise that I couldn't select him as a squad member until I did the cutscene, so after I did the mission I went to see him and this little gem of a conversation happened between Javik and Liara over the intercom

Liara: I'm sorry to trouble you again so soon, but... surely you must know something about the Device. Anything would help.
Javik: It was supposed to be our Miracle. But we were fragmented by that point. Communication had been severed. I put no faith in it. All we could trust were the weapons in our hands.
Liara: And you really know nothing about the Catalyst?
Javik: I already told you asari - no.
Liara: I'm sorry. It's just so much depends on this.
Javik: I know that, more than you do. Now please, let me be. I am still recovering.
Liara: Of course. I apologize.

Now I don't know if this is totally relevant to this discussion but it seems even Javik didn't see such an effort as worth it. If the fragmented group of Protheans working on the cruicble were also the ones who were indoctrinated then who knows what really is going on. There is no way of knowing because as he put it they they "were fragmented by that point."
avatar
Baranus33
Pod Crab

Posts : 40
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 28
Location : New England

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by southbeatz on Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:39 pm

Baranus33 wrote:So I skipped visiting Javik after Eden Prime and did a random N7 mission instead. I found out to my surprise that I couldn't select him as a squad member until I did the cutscene, so after I did the mission I went to see him and this little gem of a conversation happened between Javik and Liara over the intercom

Liara: I'm sorry to trouble you again so soon, but... surely you must know something about the Device. Anything would help.
Javik: It was supposed to be our Miracle. But we were fragmented by that point. Communication had been severed. I put no faith in it. All we could trust were the weapons in our hands.
Liara: And you really know nothing about the Catalyst?
Javik: I already told you asari - no.
Liara: I'm sorry. It's just so much depends on this.
Javik: I know that, more than you do. Now please, let me be. I am still recovering.
Liara: Of course. I apologize.

Now I don't know if this is totally relevant to this discussion but it seems even Javik didn't see such an effort as worth it. If the fragmented group of Protheans working on the cruicble were also the ones who were indoctrinated then who knows what really is going on. There is no way of knowing because as he put it they they "were fragmented by that point."

If you listen to Javik's conversations with other people and ones with Shepard, what he means by fragmented is that the Protheans were spread out, numbers thinned out, some indoctrinated, some not but overall by fragmented he meant that their numbers were too small to complete the Crucible.
avatar
southbeatz
Geth Rocket Trooper

Posts : 230
Join date : 2013-01-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Crucible Theory: Subtle hints in the ME series about the deception that is the crucible

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum