Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

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Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by TJBartlemus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:15 am

I know it's been claimed time after time after time by Chris Priestly (not so sure about the rest of BioWare) that there will be no post-ending DLC. However what the misconception by a lot of people on this forum and subsequent others is that the ending is the second after you choose one of the 4 endings. This is quite hilariously wrong. If looked at closely, the end of Mass Effect 3 is quite literally the Star Gazer scene, which last was changed by the EC in the addition of the Reject form of the Star Gazer scene. So if you take all the comments by Chris, I would agree with him in that there will be no post ending DLC. That would be quite foolish and a waste of time. That scene may take many years in the future for all we know and nothing we know of the ME trilogy as is would be relevant.

So this raises the question. What does BioWare perceive as the ending of Mass Effect 3?

What many people have been wanting is indeed content that takes place after the breath scene. If BioWare does indeed perceive the Star Gazer scene as the ending, then as said, this content requested has been misnamed as Post-Ending DLC. What it really should be referred to is Post-Choice DLC, of which has yet to be denied by any official from BioWare or any employee including Mr. Chris Priestly. This could quite possibly still mean that the next and last DLC could contain Post-Choice content.

Thoughts?
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Allynna on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:37 am

Post-Choice, post-ending, I don't really care how it is called as long as it takes place after the breath scene... We deserve a real closure to the series and that slide show after the red explosion is very far from it.

The Star gazer scene... I cant take it seriously. What is the point of it? What is the point of the three choices if after 100/1000/10000 years everything looks the same... and it really doesn't matter what color you choose... Rolling Eyes

I don't know what BioWare thinks when they hear about "post-ending" DLC... A story that that takes place after the war? A closure? That closure have to be in the game from the start. They want speculations, ok, they want us to talk about the game, to think about it... ok... but they have to deliver something eventually.

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:44 am

Depends who you ask. According to my poll that I made (with examples of previous choices having an impact on the story), it's very close. Only a small number of people voted though.

If you look at the original leaked script, the point where Shepard destroys the Reapers (or makes his choice) was technically the ending. You make your choice, and you see the cutscenes where the Reapers get destroyed, controlled, synthesized. There is a mention of Shepard living in the destroy option (breath scene), but anything after that isn't mentioned. That was technically the ending

So if you're like me, I see the whole third game as the ending. The previous choices that I made do have an impact on the entire game from the start in Vancouver, to the beam run in London.

What people were upset about is that you pick your choice at the end with the Starbrat and it doesn't play out based off of potentially thousands of different variations of choices (thousands of different endings). However, the cutscene is exactly the same, minus a color swap.

Or they rant on about how the mass relays get destroyed, everyone starves to death (an illusion, as per IT), and none of your choices mattered.

What they sold people was a game where previous choices affect how the war plays out. They said this in the pre-release statements. The war is the entire third game (supposedly, not sure if the next game is going to be taking back other planets besides Earth). So they didn't technically lie to us.

Just people might be a bit confused about the definition of the ending. Whether it's the last 5 minutes where Shepard makes his choice, or as the entire third game.
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Allynna on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:03 pm

End of the trilogy that still cuts off in the middle of something... The IT can explain the ending perfectly, that is not unintentional, that was part of a plan. And I am not talking about "Omg, the ending is so bad, maybe its just a dream". I am talking about real, logical explanation, that actually make sense.
So, for me, this is not an ending at all. Now I have even more questions that stands almost a year now and i am not the only one as you can see :) Of course people will rant. They want to know what the hell happens in the actual end of the story. Obviously "Commanda Shephurd stopped da Reapas and its now a legend" is simply not enough...

People can never be "confused" when and what is an ending, that is different for everybody. So there cant be right and wrong.

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Andromidius on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:12 pm

If you think you'll get a straight or honest answer from CP, good luck.

But you're 100% correct that the 'end' of ME3 is Stargazer. Which is so vague that ANYTHING could happen beforehand (other then, you know, the Universe ending).

And Bioware have altered the end sequence twice now already - the EC and to a lesser extent Leviathan.

So anyone who says "Bioware said they won't change the ending" needs to get clued up on the actual details.
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by TJBartlemus on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:41 am

Andromidius wrote:If you think you'll get a straight or honest answer from CP, good luck.

But you're 100% correct that the 'end' of ME3 is Stargazer. Which is so vague that ANYTHING could happen beforehand (other then, you know, the Universe ending).

And Bioware have altered the end sequence twice now already - the EC and to a lesser extent Leviathan.

So anyone who says "Bioware said they won't change the ending" needs to get clued up on the actual details.

Exactly.
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by ElSuperGecko on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:00 am

If only Bioware actually WOULD answer some of our questions.

I get the feeling from the comments on the BSN and Twitter etc that some of the devs are seriously itching to get in on the debate, to discuss the fans interpretations and ideas with them.

But they don't, and/or can't.

Bioware remain silent, and we have to keep on speculating. Hopefully there'll come a point when they'll open up and have a good chat with us.

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by magnetite on Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:02 am

I can honestly say that the part in London where you talk to your crew and surviving squadmates was the final goodbye so to speak. Given that it's a suicide mission, you weren't going to see them after that. Least how the Final Hours app wrote it.

There was no guarantee that you or anyone was going to survive the Reaper onslaught, so I guess that's how they wrote it.

I'm sure people probably expected to have all your squadmates and LI survive, grow old and have children, but that isn't realistic given the circumstances here.

I guess I'm kind of on the side where an ending that explains too much, and drags on for hours after the conflict is solved (Reapers defeated) is not as good as one which makes people think and use their imagination a bit.

That was the mission essentially. Put an end to the Reaper threat. Showing 4 hours of cutscenes of how all your surviving squadmates lived to grow old and have families would just drag it on too long (see ROTK example in another thread. Got a ton of flak for being too long).

Now I'm sure some may think that Mass Effect 3 deserves this kind of thing, but I don't know how many big budget films that do this. Matrix trilogy certainly didn't. Neo took control of the sentinels, ended the war, and show people celebrating. That was basically it as I remember it.


So anyone who says "Bioware said they won't change the ending" needs to get clued up on the actual details.

They didn't change the ending, they expanded on what is already there. Not like they deleted anything.
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:20 am

Mag, I think they only have London 'seeming' to be the 'end', because it very well might be for Shepard specifically, if you pick Synth/Control.

Ashley: Everything depends on this. Think we have a chance?
Shepard: There's always hope. It's how we got this far.
Ashley: And you made it happen, Shepard. You're the reason we're here.
Shepard: I've had people like you picking me up and dusting me off when I stumbled.

Garrus: How are you holding up, Shepard? This all has to be taking a toll.
Shepard: There's only so much fight in a person, only so much death you can take before--
Garrus: Before your friend picks you up, dusts you off, and tells you you're the best damned soldier he's ever met.

Jacob (to Shepard, FOB): There's this great little bar in Rio we have to check out.
Shepard: I'll hold you to it.


Javik (to Shepard, FOB): The future is still out there. It is something my people could never say: There will be a tomorrow.
Shepard: Only if we win today.

Kasumi (to Shepard, FOB): If you live through it, drinks are on me.

Samara: I want you to know there's no one else I'd rather see leading us in our last hours.
Shepard: These aren't our last hours. I'm fighting this war to win it.
Samara: (...) We'll both be tested in fire soon enough.

Shepard (to Miranda, FOB): This isn't goodbye. You have to believe we're not done yet.


Vega (to Shepard, FOB): So I guess this is it, no? One more push... one last fight.
Shepard: Not necessarily our last.

(Earthborn) Shepard: The city on Earth where I grew up was hard and dirty. I can see it as a war zone.
(IMO RIO RIO RIO :D)



Thanks to DD for the quotes.
I love how you said it's a 'Suicide Mission', when the last one we did was one that everyone can survive in, lol.
And then continue on to kick more Reaper ass.

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by magnetite on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:26 pm

SwobyJ wrote:
I love how you said it's a 'Suicide Mission', when the last one we did was one that everyone can survive in, lol.

If Shepard dies in 23 of the 25 different endings (based off EMS), as well as everyone gets harvested/indoctrinated, that would definitely make this game more of a suicide mission.
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by TJBartlemus on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:37 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:If only Bioware actually WOULD answer some of our questions.

I get the feeling from the comments on the BSN and Twitter etc that some of the devs are seriously itching to get in on the debate, to discuss the fans interpretations and ideas with them.

But they don't, and/or can't.

Bioware remain silent, and we have to keep on speculating. Hopefully there'll come a point when they'll open up and have a good chat with us.

I actually talked with Chris on what BioWare believes the ending is, and of course he couldn't answer. I didn't expect him to. He suggested though that I talk to the likes of Casey or Mike or one of the writers. I PM'ed Mike as I don't know any other writers/producers on BSN and am waiting for a response.

Anyone know any ways to contact a writer?
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Allynna on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:17 am

There are many ways - BSN, twitter, but the problems is that they don't respond. Depends on the questions I guess... If you want to know what happened to your Shepard and the crew, and your LI, the Reapers, the Galaxy.. well... good luck! Magic!

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:38 am

magnetite wrote:
SwobyJ wrote:
I love how you said it's a 'Suicide Mission', when the last one we did was one that everyone can survive in, lol.

If Shepard dies in 23 of the 25 different endings (based off EMS), as well as everyone gets harvested/indoctrinated, that would definitely make this game more of a suicide mission.

Well I actually consider the breath scene to be an easter egg. I think victory is possible in all but the Low EMS or Refuse endings - but Shepard might be lost or evil or whatever.

I'm just reminded of going dark side in KOTOR, when you can kill like 1/3 of your team out of nowhere.

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by dorktainian on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:17 am

DO NOT TRUST!!

just for the laughs....

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Home run MF on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:12 pm

About the Stargazer scene, does everyone know about this? from here

The Stargazer scene concept was taken from a seventh grade student from Berlin who sent a letter to Casey Hudson.
The boy stated that "It would be cool if Shepard had a child and this child was roaming around a cave and found a prophecy and knew what to do about it because he's Shepard's son."

Casey Hudson stitched that letter to his office door as a reminder that everybody should get at least, one piece of the ending which was the same for every player.

I think everyone takes it too seriously.
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Restrider on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:54 pm

Maybe we haven't seen the actual ending yet? And they are referring to that when saying they will not change them?
I know it is reaching and I am pretty sure that CP is not having access to all those confidential stuff.

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by Restrider on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:00 pm

Home run MF wrote:About the Stargazer scene, does everyone know about this? from here

The Stargazer scene concept was taken from a seventh grade student from Berlin who sent a letter to Casey Hudson.
The boy stated that "It would be cool if Shepard had a child and this child was roaming around a cave and found a prophecy and knew what to do about it because he's Shepard's son."

Casey Hudson stitched that letter to his office door as a reminder that everybody should get at least, one piece of the ending which was the same for every player.

I think everyone takes it too seriously.
So it actually confirms Blur's assertion that it takes place outside of the narrative.

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by TJBartlemus on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:12 am

It's sorta funny to compare all the versions of this thread in the different forums. Clever Noob and this thread have both been the most supportive, while the BSN one is quite the opposite. Hmm...
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:15 am

Hey Homerun! =)

Interesting.

I actually always considered that scene to be outside of the narrative. Connected, yes, but not to be taken super seriously.

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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

Post by southbeatz on Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:34 am

Restrider wrote:Maybe we haven't seen the actual ending yet? And they are referring to that when saying they will not change them?
I know it is reaching and I am pretty sure that CP is not having access to all those confidential stuff.

It's hard to speculate sometimes since EA is involved. If EA were not involved I would have complete confidence that Bioware has a huge surprise and plan but with EA involved it may not be so good. It would be cool if the current endings end up not being the actual endings though.
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Re: Post-Choice DLC (and a question to BioWare)

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