Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

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Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by southbeatz on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:07 am

I'm sure this has been talked about before but I wasn't always around on the different forums since originally the ME3 endings made me take quite a long break from the series due to the rage and disappointment. I know the majority of us seem to believe in the Indoctrination Theory because of all the evidence discovered throughout ME1,2 and 3. We all know that Bioware may be looking stupid lately but we know what they have done in the past and what they were once known for. It wouldn't be a stretch to suggest they have had plans for IT or something equally as big and simply tried to keep it silent all this time.

If Bioware reveals that IT is in fact real and we are all correct then that could easily offer the potential for Commander Shepard to continue his/her saga into a Mass Effect 4 and even more sequels if Bioware didn't screw it up. I wonder if they do any of this if they'll ruin ME4 or attempt to bring back elements that made many people get hooked on the Mass Effect series. Things like exploration in the Mako on ME1, random bodies laying on planet surfaces with clues for other things. Mass Effect 2 had more Hub Worlds, a nice variety of short side quests that didn't have to involve hordes of enemies or lots of combat but more like almost an exploration or investigative feeling. In ME1 and ME2 we had loyalty missions, although in ME1 those were just Wrex, Garrus and Tali but still. In ME2 we had 12 loyalty missions, 10 if you didn't have Zaeed and Kasumi's DLCs. We had recruitment missions and much more.

In ME3 I felt it was more like "omg the Reapers are gonna fuck us all and shit us out as goo" lol. I mean it was like a race and not an adventure. I understand the Reapers were wiping out everyone but Bioware didn't have to move away from elements that I felt originally brought me to the series to begin with. ME3 just didn't truly feel like Mass Effect to me except when I was interacting with crew members, squad mates, people like Anderson or Hackett. Bioware once said that ME1 has 20,000 lines of dialogue, ME2 25,000 and ME3 40,000 but yet it seemed a large portion of that dialogue is easily missed since it is from NPCs that you cannot actually engage in a proper dialogue conversation with. The side quests were not even side quests, they were ease dropping then flying around scanning to collect items and war assets to complete useless quests that only amount to more war assets.

I wanted to summarize how I felt the game series has changed before I got to what I think the IT can do to the series or do for the series. If Bioware reveals that IT is in fact real and we were all correct on this then that surely could lead to a ME4 with Shepard unless Bioware just wants to dump a potential money maker. If Bioware does go for a ME4 and doesn't add exploration, world hubs, side quests back to the series then I'm not sure if it would even feel like Mass Effect any more but we can hope they do what's best. I wanted to cover some possibilities that crossed my mind lately.

1. Characters from ME1 and ME2 that might not be good for a potential ME4 imo would be Kaiden, Ashley, Zaeed, Kasumi, Jacob, Wrex. Kaiden and Ashley both cannot be alive without save editing or modding so that's just double work to keep them in the series, Bioware might as well remove them. I have to really assume that nobody would want anyone in ME2 to die since the suicide mission is beyond easy to have 100% survival and any that dies takes from some ME3 content, so with that assumption I'll continue. Zaeed is a merc and past his contract with Cerberus and helping Shepard in ME3, he probably wouldn't want to join up again. Kasumi makes it clear that she doesn't want to get involved in more suicide missions so she's a no go as well. Jacob just was so poorly written as a character that he lacks usefulness or interest I think. Wrex has too many variables on if he's alive or dead and also he would most likely be leading the Krogan keeping the peace between them all.

2. This part can vary depending on how Bioware handles IT. Miranda was around TIM and a lot of Cerberus and likely Reaper tech at some point so there's the potential she could later become indoctrinated for a potential story line swerve. I was thinking she might even go as far as taking over the fallen Cerberus group. Let's face it, Cerberus became the Collectors of our cycle so I doubt they would truly go away unless the Reapers were completely defeated.

3. Jack and Grunt could rejoin Shepard. Grunt would want to travel the Galaxy with Shepard to better evolve himself as a proper Krogan. Jack likes to kill shit so maybe she gets bored being a teacher lol. Garrus, Tali and Liara were with Shepard a long time so they probably wouldn't want to leave until it was all over with.

4. The Protheans were more advanced and fought the Reapers for over 200 years but still lost. It is just impossible to even believe that Bioware would be so stupid to assume that we would accept that a lesser advanced Cycle can wipe out the Reapers in a mere 6 months. I know there's people at BSN that probably never even thought of that one lol but they're a lost cause so who cares. This fact alone I think screams that the series needs a ME4 and maybe even more after that to properly cover the true scale of the Reaper war and invasion. This is going by the back story and story that Bioware has placed throughout the games so if they can't use this then maybe they're stupid for adding so much content to the series that could potentially just mean nothing and be wasted space in the series.

5. Given that this should take over 6 months to defeat the Reapers, let's assume for now that Bioware is the old Bioware that delivered amazing story telling. I know some of us may have felt Cerberus was in ME3 too much but evidence suggests that they have become the new Collectors more or less so they will still serve a purpose. I think having Miranda succumb to Reaper Indoctrination could be a possibility because she was around TIM in person at the beginning of ME2 and TIM trusted her to bring back Shepard. Who knows what she may have been exposed to so she could be a good candidate to take over Cerberus. I know some wouldn't want her as an enemy lol but it would work out.

6. Leviathan claims to have create the Reapers so that alone should make them be a huge part of upcoming Mass Effect games unless Bioware just pisses all over all this potential in this game series. If Leviathan would play a larger role then eventually they would turn against Shepard and attempt to either control or wipe out the Reapers and reclaim their place as the dominant Species in the Galaxy thus leading to more content, adventures, fighting, mind control, betrayal, drama, emotion, etc. Imagine if Leviathan and Reapers began fighting each other. Both sides able to control people. Indoctrination has been said to be permanent even if released so there's little hope for anyone indoctrinated but it was proven that Leviathan's mind control is far less severe so Shepard would likely want to attempt to save people being controlled by Leviathan rather than just kill them all, thus adding a twist to things.

7. During all of this, we could explore, have more hub worlds, more side quests, gather information. It would be like an impossible quest looking for a way to win a war that cannot be won but has to be won. We could travel to many planets to piece together information. This also would mean that the crucible may have been a waste of time or a Reaper trap since the crucible idea I felt was not that good anyways. They could also have more scenes and interactions with the LI and squad mates to add to the story, the adventure and over all feeling of the game.

I know all of this strongly is based on the IT being real. If Bioware doesn't go with IT then they have lost out on so much potential for this series. I could go on and on but I'll stop here to see what everyone else thinks about what I've put on here so far.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:22 am


I know all of this strongly is based on the IT being real. If Bioware doesn't go with IT then they have lost out on so much potential for this series. I could go on and on but I'll stop here to see what everyone else thinks about what I've put on here so far.

I personally won't go this route. That's kind of like saying "If I don't get my boss fight with Harbinger, or blue babies I'm not going to buy another game from them again". That's someone's choice as a consumer, but it's a bit silly.

They never actually promised us an IT reveal or some kind of confirmation of IT. There wasn't a post-breath scene in the script either.

I mean there's lots of hints and such, but I don't think they will make it so obvious that this was their plan. Part of what they said before the game launched was that we are going to be gathering clues to solve a puzzle (IT). We've mostly solved all the pieces and know 98% for sure that the ending is an indoctrination attempt.

Creating a post-breath scene will solve the puzzle, but at the same time render their plan to have us gather clues meaningless. I know, a lot of people do not like my take on this, but that's just my opinion.

Haven't defeated the Reapers. However, they didn't say anything about taking back the rest of the galaxy, only Earth during the pre-release statements.

My bet, the Reapers are still there in Mass Effect 4, but you haven't taken the other worlds yet.

Either that, or we defeat them for good with this next DLC, and the next game has something to do with rebuilding the shattered galaxy.

Mass Effect 3 doesn't have much exploration in it, because you're in a race to destroy the Reapers before they harvest everyone. No time to enjoy the sights.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by southbeatz on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:30 am

My main reason for thinking the way I do on these things is that Javik talked about it taking over 200 years for the Reapers to wipe out the Protheans which were far more advanced. Shepard and others being able to actually defeat the Reapers in just 6 months, going by the time line in the game, that just is insulting to me as someone who has bought all 3 games and all of the DLCs so I just prefer to hope Bioware has some plan to make the story a good one and not a joke. I know not everyone will see it the same way but that's totally fine.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:33 am

southbeatz wrote:My main reason for thinking the way I do on these things is that Javik talked about it taking over 200 years for the Reapers to wipe out the Protheans which were far more advanced. Shepard and others being able to actually defeat the Reapers in just 6 months, going by the time line in the game, that just is insulting to me as someone who has bought all 3 games and all of the DLCs so I just prefer to hope Bioware has some plan to make the story a good one and not a joke. I know not everyone will see it the same way but that's totally fine.
That's video game logic, though. For example, Blights in Dragon Age usually take several years through the collective fighting forces of a group of nations. Yet in Dragon Age: Origins, you defeat one in only a few months with at best half a single nation's strength behind you.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by southbeatz on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:48 am

I know but still lol. I remember the old Bioware when they did such awesome work so sometimes I wonder if they had plans in the Mass Effect series that they've kept secret. I know there is a chance that it could end up being that EA rushed Bioware into finishing ME3 without getting it right.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by Andromidius on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:24 am

IT means sequels are possible. Literal means no sequels are possible without being ridiculously difficult to develop due to potentially everyone being a cyborg abomination.

What I'd like to see?

1/ Reapers bloodied, but not defeated. Perhaps they pull back their main fleets due to attrition, not wanting to risk damage that would take a million years to recover from.

2/ ME4 becomes the 'Breath' game - the whole Galaxy coming up for air and smelling the ashes, but knowing it isn't over yet. The game could focus on rebuilding and trying to maintain the shakey alliance Shepard built. Conflicts could arise from decisions made in ME3 - the Salarians may have a civil war based on the Dalatrass' actions, the Krogan may rebel if they realise they were betrayed, the Batarians may attempt to retake territory and make use of the chaos, the Terminus may attempt an invasion, the Yahg might come into the Galactic Community and start causing havoc.

3/ Introduce new characters. If we don't get Shepard, we need someone new. Either Shepard is alive and promoted (taking more of a role Anderson filled), is dead and martyred, or was indoctrinated and becomes a threat that needs to be hunted down.

4/ Maybe take a leaf out of Dragon Age: Origin's book and allow us to choose our race and background, with different 'origin' missions and story variations. Regardless of race choice, you become one of the new Spectres of an expanded Citadel Council. Race choices and 'origins' that I think would be nice are:

Human (Soldier, Resistance Fighter)
Turian (Soldier, Cabalite)
Krogan (Clan Urdnot, Mercenary)
Asari (Soldier, Justicar)
Salarian (STG)
Batarian (Mercenary)

(Vorcha, Volus, Elchor, Geth, Quarian, Drell or Hanar would either not work due to mechanics or story, or would presumably be too uncommon to feel warrented. Plus that would probably be too much to code for!).

5/ Bring back some planetary exploration, but make it optional. Maybe fly a Kodiak shuttle around the planet instead of a Mako?

6/ Keep ME3's combat style, but add more variety of enemies.

7/ Bring back neutral dialogue, tone down auto-dialogue.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by southbeatz on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:22 pm

I agree but we can only hope Bioware goes with the IT. I do believe from a business stand point that the IT would be better for Bioware and ultimately make EA happy since if done right it could easily offer the option for several more Mass Effect games with big sales so long as they try to avoid pissing off too many of the fans of the series. I just believe IT should be a no brainer for them at this point since it's money and makes them look good in the end.

If they went with IT then my guess would be in the upcoming DLC or maybe a DLC after that, they would have to think of some way for Shepard and others to deliver a huge blow to the Reapers without it being totally pointless feeling like the current endings of ME3.

At this point I do think much of the Galaxy would turn on each other thinking the Reaper threat is over and then Shepard would have to play peace maker again or at least attempt to.

I do think Shepard is an icon of the series but ultimately the Mass Effect series is the entire Universe which imo needs things like the Mass Relays and Aliens. I guess Bioware thought about that one a bit when they changed the endings in the EC to not blow up the Mass Relays since those are sort of a huge part of the game series.

I would like to see other Species as playable characters and not just forced to be a male or female Human Commander Shepard. I do like Shepard's character but they need to build this series on others also and not just Shepard. That would give them more freedom to change direction whenever they wanted. There has been far too much uproar over Shepard potentially being dead so if Bioware fixes that then maybe they should think about that in ME4 and maybe do like you suggested and promote Shepard into a role similar to what Anderson played.

I don't think so many Species would be a good idea though because each character would need potentially the full dialogue done for the entire game and per voice actor might be costly. I think they could use the same voice actor for a Female Human and an Asari but I'm not sure about the males offhand.

Exploration in ME1 was entirely optional. None of the main missions in ME1 required exploration so bringing back that aspect I think would be a nice touch. ME2 had some cool small side quests from scanning planets also. Even if they rehash things that'd be fine with me lol. I'd love to see lots of side quest content just because it feels different. It's like a change of pace in the game, taking a pause from the main story.

ME3's combat style I felt was just right for the series. Any more combat added might make it feel too much like a shooter.

I really think they should add the proper dialogue wheel back. The auto dialogue, especially in the Citadel from NPCs I found a bit annoying having to stand there then run away and run back sometimes to get more dialogue to ease drop on. There were quite a few times in ME1 where there would be 6 dialogue options in the wheel. They do need some of that back, many conversations in ME1 had lots of options.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by Restrider on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:16 pm

I'd really like those totally optional mini-campaigns that were present in ME1 (Cerberus plot for instance) and ME2 (Blue Suns, Eclipse, VI-virus, Blood Pack).
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by southbeatz on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:26 pm

Restrider wrote:I'd really like those totally optional mini-campaigns that were present in ME1 (Cerberus plot for instance) and ME2 (Blue Suns, Eclipse, VI-virus, Blood Pack).

Yea.. For my part, I wouldn't even care if it was a re-hash of other content or cheaply done. It was a nice escape from the main story while playing ME1 and ME2.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by magnetite on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:55 pm


I know there is a chance that it could end up being that EA rushed Bioware into finishing ME3 without getting it right.

The Bioware doctors have a different viewpoint on this matter.

Regarding Mass Effect 3 though. They said the game is the way it is because they operate within a budget. Some things would have to be cut in order to meet that budget.

They could probably put everything that anyone could want in the game, but their budget would probably double and the price of the game would go up significantly.

There has been other games in the past that have actually cut certain levels because they weren't ready when the game shipped. This was back in the 1990s, BTW. After the game had shipped, they just left these levels out. Did not offer them to players.
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Re: Implications Of IT Regarding A Potential ME4

Post by southbeatz on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:21 pm

Cutting content due to a budget is understandable. If that really was the case then they should have left out MP to focus on SP since SP is what made the series what it is.
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