Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Cecilia L on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:21 am

Phantom Infiltrator wrote:The truth about the crucible ought to screw with a lot of minds. Theres no way that thing isnt a trap.

Cecilia L
Pyjak

Posts : 21
Join date : 2013-01-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by RavenEyry on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:42 am

Andromidius wrote:
Oh? I don't remember the datapad analyse. Can someone link or copy that somewhere for me?
#Speaking of datapad, has anyone ever looked through infiltrator? I've never once seen it mentioned in any meaningful way.
avatar
RavenEyry
Praetorian

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : Lincoln, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by solidsnake78 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:19 am

I like the Hackett indoctrinated theory, that line always rubbed me weird (Why haven't we heard from Hackett?). But I love Lance Henriksen, so I am conflicted.

_________________
Check out my Tumblr if you like - http://simpsonsscreenshotshowcase.tumblr.com/
avatar
solidsnake78
Combat Engineer

Posts : 351
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 26
Location : Nevada

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Rifneno on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:30 am

The Hackett indoctrinated theory has been around since like 5 minutes after release. There was never a time it was based on anything but downright insane what if scenarios and misinformation however.

_________________
Remember folks.  We didn't get A, B, C endings.  We got A, A, A endings.
avatar
Rifneno
Honey Badger

Posts : 2625
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 36
Location : Razgriz Straits

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by solidsnake78 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:37 am

Rifneno wrote:The Hackett indoctrinated theory has been around since like 5 minutes after release. There was never a time it was based on anything but downright insane what if scenarios and misinformation however.

True, but I still kinda like it. It just seems like you should see a shit load more indoctrinated people, right? I mean, Reapers are everywhere.

_________________
Check out my Tumblr if you like - http://simpsonsscreenshotshowcase.tumblr.com/
avatar
solidsnake78
Combat Engineer

Posts : 351
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 26
Location : Nevada

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by ElSuperGecko on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:43 am

If we're talking about people who are potentially Indoctrinated, then we have to talk about Coates.

Seriously, something is just wrong about that guy. From the moment I first saw him I didn't trust him. Maybe it's the dark rings around the eyes, maybe it's the fact that he calls a retreat at the beam (against every order Anderson and Shepard gave), but I just don't trust him one bit.

And of course, there's that creepy datapad hidden in the dark corridor at the FOB. It suggests that someone there is slowly falling under Reaper influence...

_________________
avatar
ElSuperGecko
Space Cow

Posts : 800
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : Lying unconcious in a pile of rebar and rubble...

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by solidsnake78 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:If we're talking about people who are potentially Indoctrinated, then we have to talk about Coates.

Seriously, something is just wrong about that guy. From the moment I first saw him I didn't trust him. Maybe it's the dark rings around the eyes, maybe it's the fact that he calls a retreat at the beam (against every order Anderson and Shepard gave), but I just don't trust him one bit.

And of course, there's that creepy datapad hidden in the dark corridor at the FOB. It suggests that someone there is slowly falling under Reaper influence...


Say what? I know not of this. FOB? Fountain of Blood? Never seen it or found it, I could just be blind though.

_________________
Check out my Tumblr if you like - http://simpsonsscreenshotshowcase.tumblr.com/
avatar
solidsnake78
Combat Engineer

Posts : 351
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 26
Location : Nevada

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by ElSuperGecko on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:58 am

Forward Observation Base. Where you say the goodbyes to all your squad and mow down husks with a mounted machine gun.

Right after the infirmary, and the conversation with Liara, there's a dark corridor on the right. At the end of the corridor, there's a datapad. With a creepy little message on it.

_________________
avatar
ElSuperGecko
Space Cow

Posts : 800
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : Lying unconcious in a pile of rebar and rubble...

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by solidsnake78 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:00 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:Forward Observation Base. Where you say the goodbyes to all your squad and mow down husks with a mounted machine gun.

Right after the infirmary, and the conversation with Liara, there's a dark corridor on the right. At the end of the corridor, there's a datapad. With a creepy little message on it.

Huh, will look for that (unless you have transcribed already). And I have been hearing about a "fountain of blood" but can not locate it in the ending for the life of me. Hoax? Or am I just dumb and cant find it?

_________________
Check out my Tumblr if you like - http://simpsonsscreenshotshowcase.tumblr.com/
avatar
solidsnake78
Combat Engineer

Posts : 351
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 26
Location : Nevada

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by ElSuperGecko on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:12 am

You can view the datapad here

This is the transcript:

Sammy (?) where are you? Can't find you, message me back please!!

People go into that place and come out not the same not human anymore.

Can hear the voices craling inside the back of my skull whispering they won't

Stop why won't it stop until I go where the others went get turned into one of those things

Oh god please makeit stop make itstop makeitstop!!!!!!!!!!!

Won't listen to the voices won t go in there. Can make it stop. Know what to do.

_________________
avatar
ElSuperGecko
Space Cow

Posts : 800
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : Lying unconcious in a pile of rebar and rubble...

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by solidsnake78 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:34 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:You can view the datapad here

This is the transcript:

Sammy (?) where are you? Can't find you, message me back please!!

People go into that place and come out not the same not human anymore.

Can hear the voices craling inside the back of my skull whispering they won't

Stop why won't it stop until I go where the others went get turned into one of those things

Oh god please makeit stop make itstop makeitstop!!!!!!!!!!!

Won't listen to the voices won t go in there. Can make it stop. Know what to do.

Grim Blank . How aren't all the soldiers on Earth indoctrinated a little? Reaper tech everywhere, and those dark circles do make Coates look evil, kinda like the guy from Jondum Bau's Hanar mission.

_________________
Check out my Tumblr if you like - http://simpsonsscreenshotshowcase.tumblr.com/
avatar
solidsnake78
Combat Engineer

Posts : 351
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 26
Location : Nevada

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Maximus on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:10 pm

Andromidius wrote:
CorranusMaximus wrote:
dork wrote:''what greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause?''

prophetic indeed

This! We all know what that quote means in KotOR, right? So imagine now, that they can do the same to Shepard! DD also provided some insight into those Datapads from Eden Prime. They said something about letting resistance's officer (Shepard) by Cerberus Forces (Reapers) escape after they did something to him (like indoctrination), then fire couple missed shots at him so it would look like they want to kill him, but they don't. Then resistance (Galaxy's Forces) would place him in command which makes the leader a perfect deep cover agent for Cerberus (Reapers). Brilliant!

Indoctrination entry from wikia: "If a galactic leader were to succumb to indoctrination, the resulting chaos could bring down entire societies."

Oh? I don't remember the datapad analyse. Can someone link or copy that somewhere for me?

Ask DD, He/She/It made this analysis. It's about Eden Prime Datapads an how they foreshadow possible ending and such...

_________________
"And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing. Now I know how you felt, my friend."
avatar
Maximus
Rampart Mech

Posts : 546
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : Europe

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Eryri on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:34 pm

Baldur's Gate 2 and it's expansion had a couple of twists too. Just in case anyone's planning to play the remastered editions I'll post them below in a dark colour. SPOILERS FOLLOW

One of your party members, the urbane thief Yoshimo, turns out to under a spell forcing him to obey the game's antagonist Jon Irenicus. Eventually you are forced to kill the unfortunate Yoshimo, but not before he assists Irenicus in capturing you. At which point Irenicus finally reveals his true objective, the theft of your demi-god soul.
In the expnsion Throne of Bhaal, you are welcomed to a besieged city by a benevolent priestess, who gives you the necessary information to find and destroy several fellow demi-Gods waging war on the land. Later it transpires that she was just using you to eliminate the competition, so she too could absorb their essences, before she attempts to do the same to you.
avatar
Eryri
Phantom

Posts : 1178
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 39
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Guest on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:11 pm

I don't think Hackett is with Cerberus, HOWEVER, I think it is a possibility that he knows many things about it/has done stuff with it that Shepard+the player don't know.

I also don't think Hackett is an indoctrinated tool, HOWEVER, I think it is a possibility that he is touched by indoctrination and pushed forward with the Crucible plan like SO many other people in ME3 (if an extended version of IT is correct).

Basically, I don't think he's at all a 'big bad', but I'm open to him being a more complicated and even semi-antagonist in the upcoming DLC or game. I'm not SAYING he is - just that I'm wary about him, but still respect him for, like Shepard, clearly working against the Reapers and Cerberus.

Doesn't mean he's not a tool for greater powers as well.

Think of it this way:

Synthesis = Husks under Reaper control, the galaxy under Reaper management

Control = Cerberus under Reaper influence but resisting, Organics under Leviathan enthrallment, Synthetics under organic control

Destroy = Free organics and synthetics, with conflict with each other, but generally determining their own fate, destroying those who threaten that.

BUT, if we put Shepard under DESTROY for most of the series...
That means that even if one is endeavoring to destroy the Reapers, with their allies etc, it still doesn't mean that they can't be CORRUPTED over time.

Putting it also this way:

Synthesis = Saren, Reapers, Husks
Control = The Illusive Man, Geth, Cerberus
Destroy = Shepard, Anderson, Hackett, United Galaxy (see: Multiplayer)

If Shepard is being under the process of indoctrination over at least the process of ME3, that COULD also mean that:

-Anderson is still himself, but is being influenced by the Reapers (by being on Earth) to push through with the Crucible plan, and the Suicide Run.

-Hackett is still VERY much himself, but is being influenced by the Reapers (pure speculation, some stuff to support it but it is at least pretty flimsy) to push forward with the Crucible plan, but not so much the Suicide Run (but goes along with Anderson), and doesn't question the nature of the Crucible.
Remember, even Shepard originally questioned the Crucible, wondering if was even right to work on. It was after the first dream that his questioning ended ;)

Just because one wants to Destroy the Reapers, doesn't mean they're FREE from Reaper influence. I think what Bioware wants, above all, is for Shepard to be affected by the Reapers. In Destroy, he pushes them away. In Control, he resists but gradually succumbs. In Synthesis, he embraces them without much hesitation. In Refuse, he dies in rubble. But even in Destroy, he's being affected by Indoctrination and the effects linger forever.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by BlueLogic on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:19 pm

Back to Baldur's Gate for a moment: I thought the Pantaloons enigma was pretty impressive. Never played BG1 myself, but read about it years later.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/pantaloonsenigma.php

Seemingly useless items, meaningless clues, encoded text, all across two games and their expansions finally leading to a suit of amazing armor and a super weapon. Don't tell me Bioware doesn't have the talent to pull off IT.

_________________
Prelate and Apostle of the Church of Refuse
avatar
BlueLogic
Rampart Mech

Posts : 534
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 39
Location : Calibrating something in ATL, GA, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:08 pm

BlueLogic wrote:Back to Baldur's Gate for a moment: I thought the Pantaloons enigma was pretty impressive. Never played BG1 myself, but read about it years later.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/pantaloonsenigma.php

Seemingly useless items, meaningless clues, encoded text, all across two games and their expansions finally leading to a suit of amazing armor and a super weapon. Don't tell me Bioware doesn't have the talent to pull off IT.

Oh my god

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Raistlin Majere on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:56 pm

SwobyJ wrote:
BlueLogic wrote:Back to Baldur's Gate for a moment: I thought the Pantaloons enigma was pretty impressive. Never played BG1 myself, but read about it years later.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/pantaloonsenigma.php

Seemingly useless items, meaningless clues, encoded text, all across two games and their expansions finally leading to a suit of amazing armor and a super weapon. Don't tell me Bioware doesn't have the talent to pull off IT.

Oh my god

Hold onto your save games forever indeed.

_________________
Heroes get Remembered, but Legends never Die.
avatar
Raistlin Majere
N7

Posts : 1089
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : Denmark

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:17 am

Loving it.

I'm just going to copy-paste an old BSN thread here:

Bioware actually used the Indoctrination Theory hallucination idea

Zombie Chow wrote...

Like many of you, I did not find the current ending of Mass Effect 3 entirely satisfactory. You likely know what I mean and you feel as I do, so I won't get into that.

I've been looking at the Indoctrination Theory thread and the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck, where the ending is basically a hallucination the Reapers created in Shepard's mind to fool him into just giving up. The train of thought and supporting evidence makes a lot of sense to me, at least more than taking the ending at face value.

What struck me was that Bioware has already done something like this, but almost a decade ago. It was in the game Neverwinter Nights, in an expansion called Hordes of the Underdark.

It was a Dungeons & Dragons fantasy RPG, where at one point you confront an advanced civilisation of psychic Mind Flayers, ruled by a giant Elder Brain. You can choose to negotiate with it, but if you try to attack, it psychically creates an illusion that makes you think you've won the war, ended up in a small idyllic forest, with a charming hostess inviting you to a celebration (to my recollection, it's been years since I played this). If you accept, the credits roll exactly as if you completed the game.

The preferred solution against the Elder Brain, of course, was to use your character's Wisdom score or just common sense to break out of the psychic deception and fight back.

Edit - Below, fellow player Ellychid32 pointed out something even I missed. Bioware also used this mind trick idea in Dragon Age: Origins (during a sequence where you enter the world of dreams). Again an enemy mentally constructs a perfect scenario where your mentor congratulates you on your victory and the only way out is to attack him. This trope just seems to be something that Bioware likes to use, 10 years ago, 3 years ago, and IMHO now.

Now back to ME3. I just found the secret ending to keep Shepard alive. More importantly, it only applies if you choose to destroy all synths, both Reaper and Geth according to the God Child. I didn't choose that before as that seems too Renegade for my previous Shepard alts, but now I know that exists, it maps closely to the situation in Hordes of the Underdark. The "correct answer" is not to make peace, not to control, not to even try to be a Paragon, but just fight back to resist the illusion.

I believe the pieces of evidence in the Indoctrination Theory are intentional clues left by Bioware. The current endings are a deliberate and very convincing mind trick not just on Shepard, but on us as players so that we're really immersed. We totally fell for it, so well done, Bioware! Bioware wants the fans to figure it out before they release a DLC that builds on this. Well, clearly you did figure it out, with your beautiful explanations, and soon the DLC with the true ending is coming.

I just wanted to share this information to those that never played the Neverwinter Nights series (as they're quite old), seeing that this is a sort of mind trick Bioware used before, to show that hope is on the way.

Don't post in the original thread please, that would probably get it locked now. :*tinfoil*:


_________________
"A good leader is someone who values the life of his men over the success of the mission, but understands that sometimes the cost of failing a mission is higher than the cost of losing those men." - Anderson
avatar
DoomsdayDevice
Being of Light

Posts : 2960
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : Probing Uranus

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:23 am

Oh yeah, I'm quite aware of Underdark now :)

It's pretty much the proof to me that at least Bioware, the company, is capable of this nature of deception.

And I just played the Fade in Dragon Age a month ago, so I'm updated with that too. So cool.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:10 am

Thought I bookmarked that post about the ending of Jade Empire...*mutter*

_________________
"A good leader is someone who values the life of his men over the success of the mission, but understands that sometimes the cost of failing a mission is higher than the cost of losing those men." - Anderson
avatar
DoomsdayDevice
Being of Light

Posts : 2960
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : Probing Uranus

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by BlueLogic on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:35 am

I never knew that the game "ended" if you failed to break the elder brain's illusion. Man...that makes me want to go back and give it a try. Awesome.

_________________
Prelate and Apostle of the Church of Refuse
avatar
BlueLogic
Rampart Mech

Posts : 534
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 39
Location : Calibrating something in ATL, GA, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by ElSuperGecko on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:12 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Thought I bookmarked that post about the ending of Jade Empire...*mutter*

I posted a video of the Jade Empire ending on the first page. Reminds me of Synthesis/Control - all we need is manaical laughter from the Catalyst and it would be almost identical.

BlueLogic wrote:I never knew that the game "ended" if you failed to break the elder brain's illusion. Man...that makes me want to go back and give it a try. Awesome.

Yup, if you fail to break the illusion, the credits roll as if you'd just completed the game. I see the ME3 endings as being similar, but far less obvious (no clearly-prompted resistance checks etc - you have to figure it out for yourself).

_________________
avatar
ElSuperGecko
Space Cow

Posts : 800
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : Lying unconcious in a pile of rebar and rubble...

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by dorktainian on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:01 am

''Hmm, Hackett was always suspicious to me, since Arrival I mean. There's something weird about him. He might be one of Cerberu's leaders, you know, Cerberus is a three-headed dawg.

The Illusive Man, Hackett, and...Udina? Cerberus Trio! Hackett is Alliance's highest rank officer, got access to all advanced, military tech and stuff. Udina - political leader, most powerful human in ME 3, after Humanity joined Citadel Council. TIM - Spiritual leader, He's all about Great Ideas, secrecy, experiments and such. The main "head" of Cerberus..."

3 heads theory? mmmmmm.....

Udina. The political heavyweight. Probably has Bailey in his pocket. Can keep track of all humans on the citadel. Can supply movement details of Shepard to the enemy. I often wonder if he was advising humans on the citadel to flee to Sanctuary on behalf of his best buddies.

Hackett. Lets send Shepard to Mars to get the blueprints for something that nobody has any idea what it is, what it does, or who designed it. Then lets help the enemy by tying up all the universes resources to construct this Crudible with the promise that it will save everyone - when in fact it is a gigantic power source for a reaper construction center. The ultimate betrayal of everyone. Getting us to build a weapon for our own destruction.

TIM. Cerberus exists to carry out Hacketts 'dirty work' in effect the Alliance has 2 military operations - both working towards the same long term goal. The fall of earth and ascension of humanity into Reaperhood. Humanity split makes us easier to conquer.





_________________
avatar
dorktainian
Sovereign

Posts : 3502
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 49

Back to top Go down

Re: Bioware's History Of Manipulating Its Players.

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum