IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

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IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by Charlie Sheen on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:36 am





Like I said in the main thread, the Mass Effect: Evolution comic series heavily featuring indoctrination, husks, and hinting at synthesis. It's also written by ME3's lead writer Mac Walters It starts the indoctrination process for both the Illusive Man and Saren during the First Contact War, who meet in this story. It starts with the "Arca Monolith", which is very similar to Object Rho and has a blue beam of light in the middle. People are thrown into the beam and come out as husks.



When TIM's friend gets too close to it, he is turned into a husk and TIM gets his blue cyborg eyes. The Turians are using it to experiment evolving the Turian race. All of the Turian husks are constantly referred to as "evolved". Anyways, there's a lot of interesting quotes throughout the comic.

TIM (recovering from the artifact): "I've been having headaches since I woke up. Visions of darkness. Destruction. The future - and it's all tied to that artifact."

Desolos (Saren's brother): "I have a monolith too - and like his, mine is an evolution accelerator. Too long there has been parity between the races on the Citadel."

TIM: "I'm telling you again - you don't know what you're dealing with. Ancient classic aside, there's more to your monolith than just an evolutionary jumpstart. It's dangerous!"
Turian: "Exactly what I would expect from a radical partisan - standing in the way of Turian destiny!"

"Imagine a legion of Turians evolved to a state of ultimate physical perfection. Never resting - never yielding!"

Saren: "Premature. These...meta-Turians are simple minded - and don't obey worth a damn. I thought you said [the Illusive Man] held the key to controlling them." (foreshadowing TIM controlling the Reapers)

TIM: "You've been letting people in slowly to prevent a public backlash, but soon the "priests" will be too numerous to care. They'll put the monoliths in your city squares and forcibly transform your entire-"
Saren: "Shut up, damn it - and let me think! Why would anyone want to do this? And what's the point of advancing a species to its physical peak if you sacrifice intelligence?"

Foreshadowing the Crucible most of all:

TIM: "I finally know what [the Arca Monolith] is. It isn't an evolution device - it's a devolution device. A booby trap. Its creators planted it, to alert them to the presence of advanced species - and to transform members of those species into something they could control."





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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by Charlie Sheen on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:00 am

Posted this on BS Network. Of course it will be locked, but I don't care...

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/16121174

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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by RavenEyry on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:37 am

Nice work. I'd heard this stuff mentioned several times but the images are a great aid, thanks.
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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:50 am

"Hardly. They're being improved."

"Imagine how strong humanity could be, if we could control them. (the Reapers)"

"We can dominate them, use their power, harness their very essence to bring humanity to the apex of evolution."

"I don't expect you to understand, and I'm certainly not looking for your approval. You were a tool, an agent with a singular purpose, and despite our differences, you were relatively successful, but like the other relics (Prothian) of this place, your time is over."
(Leviathan: Your confidence is singular.)

~~~

"You've helped uncover the key to subjugating the Reapers" *handles Vendetta VI*

"They're just trying to control us! Think about it - if they wanted all organic life destroyed, they could do it. There would be nothing left. ... I know them, I know how they think."

"No, I'm saying they've got it right. Why kill when you can control?"
"No, I just, see things differently."

"Don't ever question my intentions. I've sacrificed more for humanity than you'll ever know (referencing Evolution?), and don't assume you know me. My methods for dealing with the reapers are simply more refined than yours."

"Poetic, but as usual, you miss the point. The world is more grey than you care to admit."

("You're either with me or against me. There's nothing grey about that." What? Shepard, if you put your shoe on the other foot, seems almost like a bad guy with that line. Almost.)

"No, I suppose there isn't. Leng, the commander has something I need. Please relieve him of it, then give me the data."

~~~~

"I have what I need to make it a reality (controlling the Reapers)."
"The Catalyst."
"Yes."

"You think because I'm willing to use the enemy's tactics, that they are no longer my enemy? Every Shepard, everything I've done has uplifted humanity. Not only above other species in our galaxy, but over the Reapers."

"It's not that simple (handing over the Catalyst."

"Your idealism is...admirable Shepard, but in the end, our goals are simply too disparate. I believe that destroying the Reapers could be the biggest mistake we could ever make. And nothing you say will ever convince me otherwise."

You know what I think?

1. TIM is alive. His Citadel form is the dream, based on Shepard's understanding of indoctrination and TIM (based on Shep's personal bias) to date. His plan is in motion, to help lead Shepard to Citadel. He used Cerberus to bring Shepard to Cronos, knowing Kai Leng was inept. (Leng was more of a tool than even Shepard)

2. TIM is undergoing indoctrination, but he is *incredibly resistant to it*. He is, essentially, indoctrinated into Reaper (and thus Leviathan) arrogance, intelligence, and narcissism, but not a slave to them.

3. This relates to humanity and its connection to evolution. Some humans may be very resistant to Reaper powers.
"Not only above other species in our galaxy, but over the Reapers." might mean

4. In essence, TIM is quite aware of Harbinger's plans, just as Harbinger is quite aware of TIM's plans. They are linked, but not as much as Harbinger believes, or at least Harbinger doesn't see TIM as a real threat. Thus Harbinger attacked Sanctuary, but TIM may have sent Shepard to London for a reason.

5. This reason was to use Shepard, the true (of this cycle) Catalyst, to somehow control the Reapers. I expect the Shep that chooses Control to be more TIM like, BUT VICTORIOUS. It will, however, be a BAD GUY ENDING, or at least very GREY. You control the Reapers, but sacrifice your humanity to do so.

6. When you consider the layout of the 'Crucible', it at least appears that Control and Destroy are shown as *mostly* equal choices. In fact, if you preserved the Collector Base in ME2 and have super low EMS in ME3's ending, your default choice is Control (and only Control), not Destroy. I think it's possible to control anything in the Mass Effect universe, except:
a)it's short lived, or at least temporary
b)it is NEVER an outright 'good' thing to do
c)dealing with controlling or manipulating Reaper tech is a hugely dangerous proposition. The Catalyst also paints Control in a bad light, just not nearly as bad as Destroy. It also describes Destroy is more ambiguous terms (Do you think you can destroy us?), while claiming you outright CAN control the Reapers. Currently, I see the Catalyst as only committing lies of omition or semantics, so I believe him here.
d)you basically die and your intelligence become a Reaper, at some point, somehow. Grats? It's still ruination, just not as a slave (which Synthesis is, once you get past the semantic bullshit)

7. I think this cycle is *different*.

-Shepard is an avatar of this cycle that surpasses what may have been many more (the Neo Effect, which I think is in full force, behind the scenes).

-The Normandy probably had its own less effective counterparts in previous cycles (including Javik's crew, which coincidentally all became indoctrinated).

-The Leviathans were involved, but for the first time, they're in the fight.

-The organic races are involved, but actually having substantial victories in some fronts (even as they're being pushed back at all sides).

-So you know what? I think TIM is still corrupted, still foolish, still arrogant... BUT, I think he has had enough opportunity to provide the keys to Control the Reapers. I do NOT think this is a GOOD thing. I also do NOT think this effect would be PERMANENT. But I DO think it is possible, but TIM is still alive, finishing his plan. Does Shepard join and/or take over his plan, or does he stop him, or does he convince TIM to finally help Shepard instead?

We'll see, hopefully.

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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:53 am

I still think Control is allowing indoctrination and the cycle to continue.

I also think this is monstrous unless we find out that the Leviathans hold a larger threat or some crap.

I just think that Shepard truly is special enough to control the Reapers. Just at great cost. It's not a 'hero' ending, to be perfectly clear.

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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by dorktainian on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:38 am

the truth speaks for itself. We are just messengers.

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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by CSSteele on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:29 am

I think that the comic, with it's imagery and plot ... IF the Crucible is of Reaper design, as a trap, then the 'space magic' is possible, but not the way we've been shown in game.

I can see our version of the decisions, as proposed in IT in some ways being projected through the relays to alter the galaxy, but in the bad way that we see them. IE - Synthesis is indeed a Reaperfication process, like the beam that instantly turned the humans and turians into husks/Mauraders.

Of course, I'm not Mac Walters, so I'm not entirely sure what he was intending and I stand by IT in general, but I am fairly certain we haven't figured out what they intended with full clarity.
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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:59 am

I should really check those out.

I still think control = being controlled, and synthesis = harvested/preserved in Reaper form.

For once I have to disagree strongly with SwobyJ. In my opinion it is absolutely impossible to control the Reapers.

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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:35 pm

And I think you're misunderstanding what I'm defining 'control' as...

It's not a winning condition.

If you're controlling the Reapers' direction and actions, yet indoctrinated into their methods and cycle mentality... it doesn't matter.

You still 'control' the Reapers, but you LOSE control of everything else. You lose all self-agency and well, anything resembling empathy. Shepard loses everything.

So yeah, I can certainly see Control meaning Shepard is just used to create a new Reaper, a prime one or incorporated as some major entity in the Reapers.

Controlling the Reapers, sure, but you're still controlled by everything ABOUT them.

That's what I was saying about TIM not being indoctrinated enough to be a 'willing servant', yet still indoctrinated into their philosophy, so still under their heel, even as he resists.

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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:36 pm

Okay, I can see that.

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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:30 pm

I thought you knew my position!

Destroy = 'Good guy'
Control = 'Bad guy'
Synthesis = 'Dumb guy'

:)

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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by CSSteele on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:54 pm

Is it possible that the cruicible turns the Citadel into a giant Reaperfication beam as seen in the Evolution comic and what they used there?

In the vein of it being a trap and all... Using this comic I can see how it all becomes literal, though I don't LIKE it, I can see how it ties together and makes far more sense in that perspective... I just don't see how Shep jumping into the beam allows it to change the whole galaxy.. that's still 'space-magic' but it does fit within the design of other Reaper artifacts.
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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by Charlie Sheen on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:08 pm

CSSteele wrote:I think that the comic, with it's imagery and plot ... IF the Crucible is of Reaper design, as a trap, then the 'space magic' is possible, but not the way we've been shown in game.
From the comic:

TIM: "Clarke's Third Law."
Desolas: "Ah. "Any Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Words from an earthly scientist - who was also a mythmaker, as I recall. As all scientists are."

TIM also says this when seeing a Turian husk:

"They're Turians - or they were. It's bigger. Stronger. Like it's more evolved. Or maybe - it's fully evolved."

There's some more imagery in the comics resembling the ending that I'll post soon.
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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by Charlie Sheen on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:35 am

Something a little more optimistic for today: this story shows:



Reaper devices with blue beams of light in the middle = bad (also note the people kneeling)





Contact with the beam = becoming a husk/indoctrinated. Also gives people blue cyborg eyes.


And both this and the ending are written by Mac Walters. I can't believe the similarities are a coincidence.
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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by HYR 2.1 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:02 am

Drewton wrote:When TIM's friend gets too close to it, he is turned into a husk and TIM gets his blue cyborg eyes. The Turians are using it to experiment evolving the Turian race. All of the Turian husks are constantly referred to as "evolved". Anyways, there's a lot of interesting quotes throughout the comic.

Eh, no offense, but don't be silly. Whatever the effect on his eyes, TIM does not become a husk.

TIM (recovering from the artifact): "I've been having headaches since I woke up. Visions of darkness. Destruction. The future - and it's all tied to that artifact."

'Bit reminiscent of Shepards encounter of Object Rho.

Likewise, I'm not convinced it indoctrinated Shepard.

Saren: "Premature. These...meta-Turians are simple minded - and don't obey worth a damn.

Remember that.

TIM: "You've been letting people in slowly to prevent a public backlash, but soon the "priests" will be too numerous to care. They'll put the monoliths in your city squares and forcibly transform your entire-"

Foreshadowing, yes, but of nothing new to us. We're aware of the transformation methods they employ.

TIM: "I finally know what [the Arca Monolith] is. It isn't an evolution device - it's a devolution device. A booby trap. Its creators planted it, to alert them to the presence of advanced species - and to transform members of those species into something they could control."

This, and "that," lend credence to TIM *not* being indoctrinated here.

Anyways, kudos on the quotes! I've been wanting some details on ME:E for a while now.
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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by CSSteele on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:07 am

You misread that first quote there, HYR. TIM's FRIEND is huskified and TIM gets the eyes.
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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

Post by HYR 2.1 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:55 am

Durr... yeah. Sorry about that!
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Re: IT foreshadowing in Mass Effect: Evolution

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