I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by DSharrah on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:35 pm

Andromidius wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:In case it gets missed.... Demersel pointed out that the name Miranda has a root meaning of "memory." And we know that Maya from Maya Brooks means "illusion." So the clone's line....

"You have Miranda, and I have Brooks. Only mine's better."

Becomes

"You have memory, and I have illusion. Only mine's better."

That's if Miranda is dead, correct?

That's interesting.

Very interesting indeed.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by GethJuggernautMKII on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:50 pm

Andromidius wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:In case it gets missed.... Demersel pointed out that the name Miranda has a root meaning of "memory." And we know that Maya from Maya Brooks means "illusion." So the clone's line....

"You have Miranda, and I have Brooks. Only mine's better."

Becomes

"You have memory, and I have illusion. Only mine's better."

That's if Miranda is dead, correct?

That's interesting.

You get that line even if she's alive.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by GethJuggernautMKII on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:06 pm

That Memory vs illusions line is a pretty significant find. Its as Shepard is seeing first hand what she would be like if fully indoctrinated. Suddenly the idea of Citadel not being 100% rooted in reality is becoming more convincing.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by BleedingUranium on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:42 am

It can be very symbolic, but still totally in reality.

And this is a great find, that's an amazing little bit of writing there.
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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:42 am

BleedingUranium wrote:It can be very symbolic, but still totally in reality.

And this is a great find, that's an amazing little bit of writing there.

Yes, considering that other characters are named Shepard, Legion, Joker, etc. - this isn't actually proof of anything.

But stuff to put in an evidence pile? YES. It's a good find, for sure.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by demersel on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:46 am

This is not a find - the whole DLC is literally made from stuff like this - there is no sense pointing out single things - every. single. line. is like that in Citadel DLC.
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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Rankincountry on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:22 pm

demersel wrote:This is not a find - the whole DLC is literally made from stuff like this - there is no sense pointing out single things - every. single. line. is like that in Citadel DLC.

Probably why they needed all of the writers working on Citadel - the sheer quantity of symbolism and metaphor would have needed that level of input to pull off successfully.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by demersel on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:01 pm

I'm not convinced that the all writers thing was the citadel.
They were working on the citadel in late august.
And january is very late for this amount of quality writing that citadel has to be implemented - just not enough time. Doesn't fit. They were writing something else in january.
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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by ZerebusPrime on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:13 pm

I propose that someone with more free time than I make a collection of findings regarding the Citadel DLC and post them to the IT Group at BSN. I have seen IT enthusiasts pop up repeatedly on BSN in the last couple of weeks only to get mobbed and spat on by anti-IT'ers. It would be nice to have something to point to to prove that IT isn't dead.
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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:14 pm

Wow, good finds people.

I don't care if everything in the Citadel DLC is a find.

Keep bringing them in! cheers

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Terramine on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:26 am

Seriously, how anyone could look at a poster with Kai Leng on it and think "Oh yeah, totally real yo" is beyond me. It's like, they put more effort into this DLC to make it seem not real than they did the child... yet day 1 people were going on and on about how the kid wasn't real.

Like, I can point out something completely random about this DLC and whatever I state, it will be unreal. For example: The Normandy was shooting at Joker and Cortez. What's unreal about this? Well lets see. Why did C-sec not flip out over the Normandy open firing all over the place? How long is the Citadel in size lengthwise? A ship flying down one of the arms should've reached the end of the Citadel at some point, in fact it should've been fairly quick instead of the infinite stretch of buildings we got.

Heck you could calculate this, knowing the length of the Citadel and the speed the Normandy is flying at... you could figure it out.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by dorktainian on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:02 am

http://digitalmumbles.com/2012/04/09/mumbles-explains-all-plot-holes-in-mass-effect-3-and-everything-is-coool/

i found this. kinda off topic (in a way) but worth the chuckle.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by CSSteele on Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:00 am

Kai Leng in a poster? What? Where?
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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:22 am

CSSteele wrote:Kai Leng in a poster? What? Where?

Armax Arena and like..everywhere in Citadel DLC.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by ZerebusPrime on Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:30 am

Just caught Vega's comment about Shepard's apartment in relation to the decision chamber.

"...but this place, it's just so... not what I'm used to." "Which is?" "I grew up on the beach in the Pacific so, you know, water, sand... real air."




First Matrix indeed. "Is that air you're breathing?"
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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by BleedingUranium on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:22 am

IronicParticle wrote:Seriously, how anyone could look at a poster with Kai Leng on it and think "Oh yeah, totally real yo" is beyond me. It's like, they put more effort into this DLC to make it seem not real than they did the child... yet day 1 people were going on and on about how the kid wasn't real.

Like, I can point out something completely random about this DLC and whatever I state, it will be unreal. For example: The Normandy was shooting at Joker and Cortez. What's unreal about this? Well lets see. Why did C-sec not flip out over the Normandy open firing all over the place? How long is the Citadel in size lengthwise? A ship flying down one of the arms should've reached the end of the Citadel at some point, in fact it should've been fairly quick instead of the infinite stretch of buildings we got.

Heck you could calculate this, knowing the length of the Citadel and the speed the Normandy is flying at... you could figure it out.

As for Kai Leng, ads look different to each person viewing them, it's likely an ad for that headgear, and using Kai Leng was convenient. After all, Shepard, Ashley, and James can use that. Same reason 90% of the ads are for weapons and armour.

As for the length, that's just a gameplay thing. The end run of Halo 1 is three times longer than it should be (3km on a 1km ship, and far to far vertically as well), because it makes for more enjoyable story and gameplay. And given that there's no set time for the Normandy to fly in Citadel, because it depends on the clone battle, no, you cannot calculate it anyway.


@Zerebus Nice find!
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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:05 am

BleedingUranium wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Seriously, how anyone could look at a poster with Kai Leng on it and think "Oh yeah, totally real yo" is beyond me. It's like, they put more effort into this DLC to make it seem not real than they did the child... yet day 1 people were going on and on about how the kid wasn't real.

Like, I can point out something completely random about this DLC and whatever I state, it will be unreal. For example: The Normandy was shooting at Joker and Cortez. What's unreal about this? Well lets see. Why did C-sec not flip out over the Normandy open firing all over the place? How long is the Citadel in size lengthwise? A ship flying down one of the arms should've reached the end of the Citadel at some point, in fact it should've been fairly quick instead of the infinite stretch of buildings we got.

Heck you could calculate this, knowing the length of the Citadel and the speed the Normandy is flying at... you could figure it out.

As for Kai Leng, ads look different to each person viewing them, it's likely an ad for that headgear, and using Kai Leng was convenient. After all, Shepard, Ashley, and James can use that. Same reason 90% of the ads are for weapons and armour.

As for the length, that's just a gameplay thing. The end run of Halo 1 is three times longer than it should be (3km on a 1km ship, and far to far vertically as well), because it makes for more enjoyable story and gameplay. And given that there's no set time for the Normandy to fly in Citadel, because it depends on the clone battle, no, you cannot calculate it anyway.


@Zerebus Nice find!

Wrong. Citadel ads use preexisting info that relate to products. Examples:

1. You like guns, so we'll show guns! The specific models we sell.

2. You are in a shopping area, so we'll advertize a bank that states "*Commander Shepard* - we have a deal for you!"


Using Kai Leng and Shadow Broker and Jack is an entirely new thing. It was never in ME2 and it wasn't in any of ME3 until now. Even if they were drawing from news reports on the Citadel, it still makes no sense because it would be similar to selling a product with Osama Bin Laden plastered on billboards right after the towers were struck.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Raistlin Majere on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:09 am

SwobyJ wrote:
BleedingUranium wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Seriously, how anyone could look at a poster with Kai Leng on it and think "Oh yeah, totally real yo" is beyond me. It's like, they put more effort into this DLC to make it seem not real than they did the child... yet day 1 people were going on and on about how the kid wasn't real.

Like, I can point out something completely random about this DLC and whatever I state, it will be unreal. For example: The Normandy was shooting at Joker and Cortez. What's unreal about this? Well lets see. Why did C-sec not flip out over the Normandy open firing all over the place? How long is the Citadel in size lengthwise? A ship flying down one of the arms should've reached the end of the Citadel at some point, in fact it should've been fairly quick instead of the infinite stretch of buildings we got.

Heck you could calculate this, knowing the length of the Citadel and the speed the Normandy is flying at... you could figure it out.

As for Kai Leng, ads look different to each person viewing them, it's likely an ad for that headgear, and using Kai Leng was convenient. After all, Shepard, Ashley, and James can use that. Same reason 90% of the ads are for weapons and armour.

As for the length, that's just a gameplay thing. The end run of Halo 1 is three times longer than it should be (3km on a 1km ship, and far to far vertically as well), because it makes for more enjoyable story and gameplay. And given that there's no set time for the Normandy to fly in Citadel, because it depends on the clone battle, no, you cannot calculate it anyway.


@Zerebus Nice find!

Wrong. Citadel ads use preexisting info that relate to products. Examples:

1. You like guns, so we'll show guns! The specific models we sell.

2. You are in a shopping area, so we'll advertize a bank that states "*Commander Shepard* - we have a deal for you!"


Using Kai Leng and Shadow Broker and Jack is an entirely new thing. It was never in ME2 and it wasn't in any of ME3 until now. Even if they were drawing from news reports on the Citadel, it still makes no sense because it would be similar to selling a product with Osama Bin Laden plastered on billboards right after the towers were struck.

Not even mentioning that no one on Citadel had any photo or video of Kai Leng what so ever. Bailey specifically mentions that Kai Leng uploaded a VI into the Citadel security network which erased him from any camera or other security measure which picked him up. A picture of him as he looks there should not exist, at least not one I can imagine a shop or similar getting their hands on.

Also if it was just to create an advertisement for the gear, why use Kai Leng's picture (from a developer standpoint)? If Shepard, Ashley or James can use that gear then use their image with the gear for the advertisement. It would be far less jarring and could even be explainable, especially in James case. Imagine a throw away line from James saying he participated in an advertisement for battle armor while on shore leave, could easily be paired up with a joke about Shepard's own advertisements in ME2.

But no, they used Kai Leng.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Terramine on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:40 am

BleedingUranium wrote:
As for Kai Leng, ads look different to each person viewing them, it's likely an ad for that headgear, and using Kai Leng was convenient. After all, Shepard, Ashley, and James can use that. Same reason 90% of the ads are for weapons and armour.

As for the length, that's just a gameplay thing. The end run of Halo 1 is three times longer than it should be (3km on a 1km ship, and far to far vertically as well), because it makes for more enjoyable story and gameplay. And given that there's no set time for the Normandy to fly in Citadel, because it depends on the clone battle, no, you cannot calculate it anyway.


@Zerebus Nice find!
That's the kind of stuff a literalist thinks up.

As mentioned from a in-lore perspective, there is no possible way a shop got hold of that picture... not without Bioware trying to set some red flags up that C-Sec once again horribly fails to notice these pictures. If they were re-using resources, like Kai Leng was an easy example since he always wears it... then Bioware is leading us on, they know what the hell that would seem like. This is the kind of stuff Spotless has a great point about how they keep leading us on, they know what their saying and doing when they do shit like this. That it sets red flags. Meaning, it's not harmless, Bioware has very obvious intentions behind it.

As for the Citadel, what you are describing is not Bioware's usual MO. Why not battle on stable ground? They've never done something like you are suggesting, nothing like this battle.

They've had all hands on deck working on it since fairly early last year, to just brush it off as laziness and whatnot is inexcusable. Just like trying to say the content we've gotten fits the 4gb, is inexcusable. That was not 4gb worth of content.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by dorktainian on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:00 am

or maybe the citadel DLC was a massive 'fuck you' to anyone that enjoyed (past tense) biowares games that actually had a brain.

I mean.... come on. It's complete and utter bollox. Parody for parodys sake. Yeah lets make a shapard clone. WTF? ok this raise the possibility that shep himself might not be all he appears to be. Stealing the normandy? who cares? we're all going to die shortly and I havent got time to be chasing my fecking ship across the universe for no fucking reason at all but to make moar money for a company that apparently doesnt even know what a fucking story structure is.

You know what they say Bioware 'The customer is always right'.

more of this shit and you dont deserve any more of my money.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:05 pm

dork wrote:or maybe the citadel DLC was a massive 'fuck you' to anyone that enjoyed (past tense) biowares games that actually had a brain.

I mean.... come on. It's complete and utter bollox. Parody for parodys sake. Yeah lets make a shapard clone. WTF? ok this raise the possibility that shep himself might not be all he appears to be. Stealing the normandy? who cares? we're all going to die shortly and I havent got time to be chasing my fecking ship across the universe for no fucking reason at all but to make moar money for a company that apparently doesnt even know what a fucking story structure is.

You know what they say Bioware 'The customer is always right'.

more of this shit and you dont deserve any more of my money.

It'll either be seen as their 'parody love letter'.

Or 'jumped the shark fuck-you'.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Pascal219 on Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:40 pm

I'll put this here as well ;)

''You forgot homicidal synthetics rebelling against their masters.'' - EDI

I finally found a video of a playthrough without Wrex where she says this, I have a few playthroughs of the Citadel DLC where Wrex is dead and I could've sworn I heard this line. Finally have the proof to back it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUvT6KYtjlVpWm25NVUrsS_g&feature=player_detailpage&v=N1JOetCsiKE#t=554s

IMO, this just confirms this DLC is post-ending and will be placed there after a reveal DLC/expansion is out. The dialogue in the DLC itself requires minor tweaking to accomplish that and could be very well already present in the DLC or be brought along with the reveal DLC/expansion.

Okay, that last part is just me being hopeful, I know. But what she mentions is only brought up by Starbrat and nowhere else in the game. ;)
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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:44 pm

Pascal219 wrote:I'll put this here as well ;)

''You forgot homicidal synthetics rebelling against their masters.'' - EDI

I finally found a video of a playthrough without Wrex where she says this, I have a few playthroughs of the Citadel DLC where Wrex is dead and I could've sworn I heard this line. Finally have the proof to back it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUvT6KYtjlVpWm25NVUrsS_g&feature=player_detailpage&v=N1JOetCsiKE#t=554s

IMO, this just confirms this DLC is post-ending and will be placed there after a reveal DLC/expansion is out. The dialogue in the DLC itself requires minor tweaking to accomplish that and could be very well already present in the DLC or be brought along with the reveal DLC/expansion.

Okay, that last part is just me being hopeful, I know. But what she mentions is only brought up by Starbrat and nowhere else in the game. ;)

Yeah.

Personally, I view Citadel as 'technically but also not post-ending', due to the 'everything is an indoctrination world in ME3, based on legit memories' idea.

Essentially, Citadel DLC is drawing upon your memories of Rannoch arc, even if you haven't 'done it yet', because the whole game is a time-cycle in Shepard's mind, until he reaches the 'Crucible', the nexus of his memories.

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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:45 pm

Quite familiar to certain goings on in Citadel DLC.


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Re: I am SO confused about all of this... (Major ending foreshadowing in Citadel DLC)

Post by Pascal219 on Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:29 pm

SwobyJ wrote:
Pascal219 wrote:I'll put this here as well ;)

''You forgot homicidal synthetics rebelling against their masters.'' - EDI

I finally found a video of a playthrough without Wrex where she says this, I have a few playthroughs of the Citadel DLC where Wrex is dead and I could've sworn I heard this line. Finally have the proof to back it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUvT6KYtjlVpWm25NVUrsS_g&feature=player_detailpage&v=N1JOetCsiKE#t=554s

IMO, this just confirms this DLC is post-ending and will be placed there after a reveal DLC/expansion is out. The dialogue in the DLC itself requires minor tweaking to accomplish that and could be very well already present in the DLC or be brought along with the reveal DLC/expansion.

Okay, that last part is just me being hopeful, I know. But what she mentions is only brought up by Starbrat and nowhere else in the game. ;)

Yeah.

Personally, I view Citadel as 'technically but also not post-ending', due to the 'everything is an indoctrination world in ME3, based on legit memories' idea.

Essentially, Citadel DLC is drawing upon your memories of Rannoch arc, even if you haven't 'done it yet', because the whole game is a time-cycle in Shepard's mind, until he reaches the 'Crucible', the nexus of his memories.

Tinfoil Hat

Yeah, that's not my favorite theory. Too out there imo.
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