Love chain : one last observation of core narrative

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Love chain : one last observation of core narrative

Post by applepie_svk on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:06 am

Chain of love : Catalyst – Crucible – Leviathans - Vendetta

Do you ask yourself, what the hell I am just looking at ? That´s right question and the answer is simple, it´s just some sort of observation of core narrative and irrationality within this "masterpiece".


1.0


Crucible



To begin with why is Crucible poorly done, it´s the size of retcon comming from this plotdevice, it was told that each cycle start with closing relay network and Reaper invasion. Repears hit first while the civilizations fell to this trap as a victim. We found a plans for Crucible on Mars while the VI which had knowlendge for Crucible we could find on Thessia, if Thessia would be in close neighbourhood away just few system out of Earth, I would be fine with such an explanation, but Mars and Thessia are pretty much distant from each other. Therefore Protheans were unable to travel any other way then by ships betwen those two distant systems which would take at least few years and such uncertainty in war couldn´t be afforded.

Crucible is the plot device which was supposed to push forward whole plot and not kept plot walking in circles, we could compare its to goal as was finding a Conduit. The difference was that while Conduit and Protheans were mistery since beginning, Crucible was supposed to stop the reapers because plot demmands it. As far is it goes, Crucible has no foreshadowing from previous games at all, and niether the proper explanation over most of the plot of ME3, Crucible looks more like a dog bitting own tail running in circles then plotdevice which is trying to be explained.

Whole explanation of Crucible you could sum up as a big one “maybe”, Hacket was equating the use of Crucible with A-Bombs back in WW2. While I do agree with statement, that whatever it will do it has to be big, I don´t agree with this comparison from the historical standpoint, A-bomb was created based on research and theories which have led sciencists to final product – bomb, and they also proved their theories to be true by testing it. Crucible was created based on blind hope that this device will stop the Reapers, sciencists didn´t knew about its purpose niether effect, part called a Catalyst, place of origin or creators... only what was told by game is that whatever will cause the Crucible it will be big.


Hey you – YES, YOU OUT THERE! The ice cream and snowball are both icy but the taste is different... see what I did there ?

Sorry BioWare,but this it´s not an explanation .

The only real answers to Crucible holds Vendetta, read next part...


1.1


Vendetta



Vendetta is VI which had an information about Crucible, everything which Protheans managed to salvage out of previous cycle about this device. I do believe to Vendetta much more than to Catalyst or Leviathans, because it is just a VI which cannot lie but only works with informations which it has recieved, but I am not saying that Vendetta cannot be wrong.

So what Vendetta said ?

Presented as fact - Crucible is colaboration of work across the countless cycles.

If we are taking this as a fact which was presented by Vendetta, then it makes sense – first cycle found a way, warning or they were eqaully advanced but not so widespread as Reapers which gave them enough time to built this structure.

Presented as fact - Citadel is a Catalyst.


Again, if we are assuming that first sentence is true – then creators of Crucible expose the weakness of Reapers and thanks to Citadel and Relay Network found a way to destroy the Reapers. Crucible in each of 3 out of 4 endings co-operate with Citadel which means using relay network to spread a signal or power or whatever thru this network.

Presented as an assumption/belief - Reapers are servants of the pattern, niether its masters


While the Crucible has nothing to do with intelligence at that point, it was nothing more than just an assumption of VI based on belief of Protheans which fought again Reapers and tried to deploy a Crucible.

Catalyst enhances the dark energies and using its powers against Reapers, Catalyst is Citadel...

It was feared that if the Reapers were aware of the Catalyst´s intended use, they would retake to control of it.

I was programed to withold that information till the Crucible is ready.



If you were paying attention to lore, then IT is proven to be right by those few lines.




1.2


Leviathan - Crucible



If the Leviathans were included in game, we wouldn´t be at least bitching about lack of context. Unfortunatelly that´s untrue, and while Leviathans managed to add some of the context they also again did nothing more which doesn´t managed the EC with supposed clarification. All what Leviathan said was that they followed the Crucible, but structure was never finished in time and cycle fell as a victim to intelligence.

Leviathans – intelligence

Leviathans said that they are those who are basically behind the creation of cycle, they´ve made an intelligence to solve a supposed problem but it backfired and they were first lunch to eat.
Intelligence was supposed to preserve all life for any cost, bang – what a shame that creators were so stupid that they didn´t create a proper chains which would limit intelligence power.

Leviathans - intelligence - Reapers

First created reaper was Haringer perfect in its design, by harnessing Leviathan´s control ability intelligence and its puppets were able to take a power over the minds of organics.


1.3


Intelligence


It was never in game stated that intelligence and Catalyst are the same entity by anyone outside the Catalyst´s chamber, which again create a rift in plot. While Leviathans are the optional for plot they as much as proved the ending sequence to be true in literal form they also disproved this whole assumption.


You ask why ? Another plotdevice which is in game is called indoctrination, unfortunatelly this plotdevice managed to create such a disbelief that it´s impossible to take literal form seriously, till you are ignoring whole subplot of Reapers. I won´t go thru details, but only what I can say that everyone who fell to indoctrination end up like a husk mumbling about “ascension”.

If we are taking a premise of Leviathan conversation, then we have learned that idncotrination is perfected mindcontrol ability which is not just able to control the victim but also read in his/her mind. That´s the answer for indoctrination, it alone was reading in Shepard´s mind and shapping a truth in such an angles how it desired.


1.4


Rannoch reaper:



If there was anything worht about conversation with reaper on Rannoch, then it was mentioning of Harbinger significance for reaper´s hierarchy.

Now we make a step back to ME2, do you remember Harbinger and Collector´s ship ? All those crazy things about deeply genetically altered ex-Protheans or his funny quotes ? Yes I do and with the context of synthesis ... means justify the end ? I don´t know.


Another part is the Harbinger, Vendetta mentioned that Reapers are just servants of its pattern and the master is rather unkown, but Harbinger alone is so frequently mentioned in the context of ME3.

Harbinger using collectors for observation,Harbinger leading the Reapers on Earth, destroyer on Rannoch speaking highly about Harbinger, Harbinger mentioned as a first Reaper by Leviathans, Harbinger runs to the beam...

None ever said that Harbinger and intelligence couldn´t be the same entity.



1.5


Catalyst and ending sequence:



Magic elevator – path to hell:
Shepard never made it into the Catalyst´s chamber on his/her own, but he/she was summoned by Catalyst instead. Which is fundamental flaw with endings, if you have low EMS then it doesn´t make any sense. Why would Catalyst invited you into the chamber, even if Crucible was heavily damanged? Why would Catalyst take a risk and gave you a chance to destroy it ? Why would Catalyst denying own agenda ? Is it even real ?

Catalyst was pressenting himself as an intelligence, but disbelief comes just from his first sentece that he is the Catalyst. Do you ask why ?

Well, Vendetta said that Catalyst is a Citadel, which make sense if someone managed to expose a reapers and their weakness and thru this path found a way to built a Crucible.

But a truth is far more complicated, Catalyst stated three things:
1.He is Catalyst and Citadel is his home
2.He knew the creators of Crucible but there is not enough time to explain.
3.Shepard is first organic who ever made it so far

From the knowlendge acquired so far, we can say:
1.Crucible was created by synthetics after what they found a Catalyst
2.Crucible was created by organics which were guided by Catalyst
3.Crucible was created by organics which were guided by Leviathans
4.Crucible was created by synthetics which were guided by Catalyst
5.Crucible was created by organics/synthetics which found a weakness[/list]


1. means that Catalyst was avoiding to answer

2/3/4 means that either Catalyst or Leviathans were lying or deceiving... Do you ask why ? Blueprints were created from two parts and these are Crucible and Catalyst, while Crucible could be easily explained as collective effort of cycles, a second part the Catalyst was explained as Citadel and not an intelligence which raising a question that how could all the cycles create something which should work with AI without knowlendge of this AI ? - The only answer is that whoever started with Crucible was just a guided by one of those two factions.

5 means that indoctrination is true.

That´s not an explanation BioWare that´s just a mental gymnastics, how can you explain something with raising of more questions ?



Catalyst – Crucible

The device you refer as the Crucible is little more than a power source...



1. If this is just a power source, where the choices came from ?
2. If this is not just a power source, then why is Catalyst lying to me ?
3. How can power source alter the Catalyst ?

Catalyst – purpose – choices given by Catalyst

Catalyst was using an absolute machine logic – 1 and 0 or black and white... what´s matter is the Catalyst´s purpose – goal for which he was programed to, it´s a preservation of all life for any costs.


If I will avoid to four basic flaws in his logic like:

1. Preserving all life for any cost – which is impossible due to infinite size of space

2. He sent a minions to harvest, endgangering own work. So some of his minions – reaper/Canon foder fell to war with the cycle.

3. Some of the species are not suitable for being transformed into the Reaper form, at least it was told by ME2. Therefore not the every race can be preserved and they are being used as a servants and canon fodder

4. Big chunks of population could fall to war with the Reapers, and that means that they were not preserved as a Reaper form neiter as Canon fodder.



While synthesis literally doing what was Catalyst doing for countless cycles therefore changing everyone into hybrids of machines and organics – preserving and controling life.

Control was again doing only what was did the Catalyst since beginning and that was the controlling the flow of powers in galaxy, even if in different form. Before it was all about restarting cycle to kept a balance now it should be about keeping a balance without cycle.

But destroy is quite opposite of what was Catalyst doing, destroy is not just nullifying all the effort which Catalyst had to put into a harvests but also denying its own agenda which should be as saint for it.

Refuse, if you choose refuse you´ve lost even after what Catalyst admited that his solution won´t work anymore. Catalyst wasn´t programed to create a reapers but to preserve life, he could stop the reapers whatever he wished and look for different path to achieve its goal but he didn´t.


1.6

Unasnwered Questions
for literal form


Who made a Crucible ?
How did they managed to invent a Crucible ?
How do we know that Crucible isn´t a plan of Leviathans or the intelligence?
Why the presence of intelligence denying plot of ME1 ?
Or Better... Why ME1 denying existence of intelligence ?
Why intelligence didn´t try to open Citadel relay ?
Why intelligence didn´t try to help a Sovereign ?
Why intelligence needed a Keepers ?
Why intelligence needed a Sovereign ?
Why intelligence didn´t try to lock the Relays in ME3?
Why the Reapers didn´t try to take Citadel first ?
How do we know that intelligence and Habrinber aren´t the same entity ?
How do we know that intelligence and Catalyst are same entity ?
How can we trust to Leviathans or Catalyst when they bring more questions then answers ?
How do we know that ending sequence really happened when it´s filled with contradictions and vagueness?
How do we know that that choices came from Crucible ?
How do we know that Catalyst didn´t mess with choices ?
How do we know that Catalyst isn´t lying ?
Why was Catalyst trying to ignore the existence of Crucible ?
How is possible synthesis ?
How is possible control ?
Why the Catalyst gave me a chance to destroy it ?
Why the Catalyst proceed in harvest when I refused ?

1.7

Verdict –



Ah, yes... Feel free ! Ah, yes...


Endings doesn´t make any sense, not for the literal form without more of context which is missing and that´s why the end of game is ambiguous. But it´s only so ambiguous if you are looking at the end of game thru literal form, Vendetta simply disproving Catalyst´s existence.

The problem is simple, BioWare thinks that what is ambiguous is good, while the truth is quite opposite. Till the release of ME3 we had always some sort of explanation –


Back in ME1 it was a Conduit and Prothean cypher which forced us to continue and look for answers which we could get across the game from multiple sources – Shaia, Benezia, Prothean cypher, Vigil, Saren and Sovereign.

Back in ME2 it was all about Collectors and Omega 4 relay, the sources of information were again spread across the whole game on mutliple occasions and thru this you´ve recieved an insight into what has to be done or what happened to collectors, collonists.

But these explanation always fall in line, they were explaining only one point of view and in the ME3 you get 2 more povs which were trying to ignore information given by Vendetta.

In ME3 we have recieved once again an attempt to explain, there was too much attempts to explain the end of game - pov of Leviathans, Catalyst and Vendetta. Each of them had some sort of weight - but only reliable is Vendetta because it cannot lie niether to use mind control.
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Re: Love chain : one last observation of core narrative

Post by magnetite on Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:32 am

I'm just going to go out there and say sci-fi is known to have plot holes. Even TV shows like Stargate, Fringe, X-Files, plus many sci-fi movies have plot holes or stuff that isn't fully explained in great detail. Or is contradictory or illogical.

If there was way too many errors in the plot, the QA team would have picked up on this (story editors, who check the lore and such for accuracy). However, every work of fiction is going to have some inconsistencies.

Just remember what Homer said on the Simpsons. It doesn't have to be 100% realistic and to the book. It's fiction. Sure a TV show might contradict some universal law and such, but those laws are real, where as Mass Effect is a work of fiction.


The problem is simple, BioWare thinks that what is ambiguous is good, while the truth is quite opposite. Till the release of ME3 we had always some sort of explanation –

Well a lot of people wanted everything explained. I mean everything. Plot devices, closure for characters. Everything. Unfortunately, probably due to budgets and deadlines, certain things had to be cut in order to meet deadlines.
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Re: Love chain : one last observation of core narrative

Post by applepie_svk on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:12 am

magnetite wrote:I'm just going to go out there and say sci-fi is known to have plot holes. Even TV shows like Stargate, Fringe, X-Files, plus many sci-fi movies have plot holes or stuff that isn't fully explained in great detail. Or is contradictory or illogical.

If there was way too many errors in the plot, the QA team would have picked up on this (story editors, who check the lore and such for accuracy). However, every work of fiction is going to have some inconsistencies.

Just remember what Homer said on the Simpsons. It doesn't have to be 100% realistic and to the book. It's fiction. Sure a TV show might contradict some universal law and such, but those laws are real, where as Mass Effect is a work of fiction.


The problem is simple, BioWare thinks that what is ambiguous is good, while the truth is quite opposite. Till the release of ME3 we had always some sort of explanation –

Well a lot of people wanted everything explained. I mean everything. Plot devices, closure for characters. Everything. Unfortunately, probably due to budgets and deadlines, certain things had to be cut in order to meet deadlines.


That´s true and I agree, but plotholes in the end of game are generated basically by two elements - Catalyst and Leviathans, while they were creating more holes and questions the Vendetta was the only one consistent. While Vendetta described Crucible as a powerful device, Leviathans avoid the answers and Catalyst were dancing around fire.


-------------------------------
Leviathan: We followed it´s creation

Catalyst: We found a pattern few cycles ago

Vendetta: It´s a colaboration of work across the cycles since its invention
-------------------------------
Leviathans : The outcome is unkown

Catalyst : It´s a battery

Vendetta : It co-operate with Citadel by releasing a waves of dark energy against the Reapers
-------------------------------
Catalyst: We believed that the pattern was destroyed few cycles ago

Vendetta: The Crucible of last cycle was sabotaged from within.
-------------------------------

Catalyst isn´t trying to explain, to expand, but only to decieve and avoid to explain of from what we have found in the Vendetta´s explanation. That´s basic conclusion, while Vendetta cannot lie - Catalyst and Leviathans might be liars.

Harbinger


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Re: Love chain : one last observation of core narrative

Post by Rifneno on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:32 pm

magnetite wrote:
If there was way too many errors in the plot, the QA team would have picked up on this (story editors, who check the lore and such for accuracy).


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Re: Love chain : one last observation of core narrative

Post by magnetite on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:34 pm

applepie_svk wrote:
Catalyst isn´t trying to explain, to expand, but only to decieve and avoid to explain of from what we have found in the Vendetta´s explanation. That´s basic conclusion, while Vendetta cannot lie - Catalyst and Leviathans might be liars.

Harbinger

Might be liars?

Catalyst is Harbinger. Leviathans want the cycle to continue (well initially). I do not trust any of them.

Thing is, if people sit and pick about all the inconsistencies and such, they are going to spend more time doing that than playing and enjoying the game. At the end of the day, concentrate on having fun, rather than focusing on the plot holes and such. When I first played Mass Effect 3 I was too busy having fun, and wasn't really concerned with all the plot holes, bugs or other stuff with the game.

Just remember, video games are made by human beings like you and me. They make mistakes, they mess stuff up.
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