World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:28 am

So I'm curious as to how one deals with the suffering of the world? I mean every day, millions suffer... many in ways that make me feel like even a real life Reaper invasion would not make things worse, and heck may even be a preferable experience in some cases. Knowing that hundreds of thousands of things at least happen everyday just as horrible as say... a mother getting knife raped while she watches her children also get raped and gutted or something to that extreme effect, etc.

Knowing, that's what is going on somewhere in the world... mostly pointlessly. How do you deal with that?

I mean, it's not that I blame myself for it... I am very empathetic, so it's not about me at all. I think about what they are experiencing, and really the sheer amount of it, the evil of it, the cruelty, the pain, the absurdity, etc. Just shatters any real motivation and hope. I mean, even when imagining the whole picture, I don't want to kill myself... but I have to use all my willpower to stay somewhat sane. So I'm kind of asking for a bit of help here, Therapists tend to try and get me to think it's not my fault, not my burden, etc. But they just don't get, how that's not the point. Does it matter? When someone is hurt, that makes me hurt, that's empathy... it doesn't matter that I didn't cause the pain, their still hurting...

So, maybe someone here can give a bit of personal insight...

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:58 am

I'm probably not going to get an answer to this. Well, what can I expect if the professionals do no better?

Of course, I'm being cynical Rolling Eyes

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Lombus on Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:48 am

Well I'm actually a little like you. I spend a lot of time (maybe too much) thinking on the state of the world, the meaning of life and things like that. I have no idea why but I've always being like that. ;)
And I agree with you with the fact that most of time life seems pointless and cruel, but there's good things out there too.
In my case I'm rather touchy and sensible to animal cruelty: people throwing stones at cats, hungry and sick dogs in the streets dying, and knowing that people kill tigers, foxes and so on just to have so some stupid coat and that rhinos are murdered everyday because their horn it's said to have healing powers...it's sickening In my country there's also this stupid practice of Bullfighting and I absolutely hate it. When I think about all this and that I can't just make much to prevent it... I get mad and disgusted on humanity, it's all damn revolting.
So how can we fight this feelings? Well first we have to accept that no matter how good we are we can't fix everything and that some things can't even be fixed. Second we try to fix something, we may not fix the world but we can't just sit down and wait for a change to happen. We have to fight.
So what do I suggest you to do is some charity and voluntary work. Do you think elders are mistreated? Then go to a retirement home and help there, speak with them, hear their stories and make them laugh...you'll feel on the top of the world once they smile and thank you. You can also join support groups for any cause you feel connected to: I for e.g. am a member of a group that's trying to make bullfighint illegal here, it's being damn hard but I like to think that once we win...it's all been worth it.
So... I hope I helped Ironic Laughing *hugs*

_________________
Mass Effect: Strength through diversity.  And victory through unity.

"In our darkest moments, when life flashes before us, we find something. Something that keeps us going. Something that pushes us. When all seemed lost, I found a truth. And I knew what I must become. "
cat Hell Cat  cat
avatar
Lombus
Adjutant

Posts : 559
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 24
Location : Portugal

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:23 pm

Lombus wrote:Well I'm actually a little like you. I spend a lot of time (maybe too much) thinking on the state of the world, the meaning of life and things like that. I have no idea why but I've always being like that. ;)
And I agree with you with the fact that most of time life seems pointless and cruel, but there's good things out there too.
In my case I'm rather touchy and sensible to animal cruelty: people throwing stones at cats, hungry and sick dogs in the streets dying, and knowing that people kill tigers, foxes and so on just to have so some stupid coat and that rhinos are murdered everyday because their horn it's said to have healing powers...it's sickening In my country there's also this stupid practice of Bullfighting and I absolutely hate it. When I think about all this and that I can't just make much to prevent it... I get mad and disgusted on humanity, it's all damn revolting.
So how can we fight this feelings? Well first we have to accept that no matter how good we are we can't fix everything and that some things can't even be fixed. Second we try to fix something, we may not fix the world but we can't just sit down and wait for a change to happen. We have to fight.
So what do I suggest you to do is some charity and voluntary work. Do you think elders are mistreated? Then go to a retirement home and help there, speak with them, hear their stories and make them laugh...you'll feel on the top of the world once they smile and thank you. You can also join support groups for any cause you feel connected to: I for e.g. am a member of a group that's trying to make bullfighint illegal here, it's being damn hard but I like to think that once we win...it's all been worth it.
So... I hope I helped Ironic Laughing *hugs*
Yeah it's pretty sad when you can make a truthful joke about how people judge animal rapists, but oh no, horribly torturing animals is perfectly fine. Obviously, animal rape is wrong, but the joke is obviously that people are so hypocritical. Now personally, I eat meat... though I do think there is lots of things factories NEED to change, but I do eat meat for certain reasons I don't really care to expand on here.

But there is animal cruelty everywhere, and it's so pointless. I have nightmares about my dog named Hatchet dying, just as I do of my family and human friends. I mean, we brought animals into our world... they didn't come to us. We dragged them into our hell, what kind of madness is that?

Then again, I can't entirely hate Humanity... whenever I ponder on where it all started, I realized how fragile humans are. All it would take to breed the cycle of despair, would be for a person to hit their head and get brain damage, or to be born with a "defiecency", etc. Heck back when we were cave men, we apparently were so violent as to bash each other over the head with rocks when we got into arguments. We also, were pressured by the wilderness, not exactly creating great mental health standards lol

Not that I don't BLAME Humanity NOW, but I don't necessarily hate em either, as far as I know a victimizer is a victim. Which is another piece of the horrors of reality.

I probably should get into charity work, I just don't know where to do that out here in the middle of almost nowhere... Thanks Lombus Joyful

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Lombus on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:29 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
I probably should get into charity work, I just don't know where to do that out here in the middle of almost nowhere... Thanks Lombus Joyful
Ah...I didn't knew that. Well there's always someone that needs help or something that needs fixing so keep your eyes open and you may notice something :) . You're also quite welcome, I hope I helped. Very Happy

_________________
Mass Effect: Strength through diversity.  And victory through unity.

"In our darkest moments, when life flashes before us, we find something. Something that keeps us going. Something that pushes us. When all seemed lost, I found a truth. And I knew what I must become. "
cat Hell Cat  cat
avatar
Lombus
Adjutant

Posts : 559
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 24
Location : Portugal

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by BlueLogic on Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:30 pm

Mankind's capacity for evil is perhaps the most disturbing aspect of life. Hearing stories of the horrors committed against civilians during wartime, the pain inflicted on people by dictators to keep them obedient through fear, the brutality committed by individuals against their neighbors even in free and lawful countries, is more than enough to seriously challenge my belief in a Good and Just God. I realize a lot of people don't think God exists, and, in light of the subject, I totally understand why.

Why would he allow these things to happen? If he supposedly has the power to create the universe, why can't he stop people from hurting each other? I've heard it answered, "he doesn't stop us because he gave us free will, so that we could choose to do what's right because we recognize and desire what's good and right, rather than doing good because we have no choice which would be meaningless".

That doesn't make any sense from the perspective of the victim who's being raped by someone who had the free will to choose to hurt her. Where is the justice in that? Isn't God supposed to be Just? It sure as hell doesn't seem like justice when a man rapes then kills a woman and gets away with it all.

In my mind then, seeing that justice cannot be guaranteed in a world with free will, the value of free will can only be realized if this world, this life, is not the end. In other words, the only way God can both be Just and give us free will over our lives is if justice is delayed until we pass away from this world. And justice after we've already passed is only meaningful if there is a life for us to live after our death.

Anyway, that's how I cope with the terrible evil I see perpetrated on people. That's the only way I can keep from being totally consumed with dismay and hopelessness when there is no justice for so many. Our job then, is to do as much good as we can, to hopefully help those who've been hurt, and protect others from being hurt.

I really hope I didn't sound preachy.

Looking back over the posts, I realize I probably could have just said, "Right on Lombus. Charity and volunteerism is a great way to help people and do some good in this world." ;)

_________________
Prelate and Apostle of the Church of Refuse
avatar
BlueLogic
Rampart Mech

Posts : 534
Join date : 2013-01-15
Age : 39
Location : Calibrating something in ATL, GA, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by BleedingUranium on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:04 am

Do what you can to help make people's lives better, but don't worry about those you can't help. All you'll accomplish is making yourself unhappy.
avatar
BleedingUranium
Thresher Maw

Posts : 1921
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : BC, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:15 am

BleedingUranium wrote:Do what you can to help make people's lives better, but don't worry about those you can't help. All you'll accomplish is making yourself unhappy.
Not that I'm judging people who do ignore it, it's just that the whole point to empathy is that you don't ignore it... I'm a very empathetic person, so to ignore it would be to suppress a part of me. Which would be like saying there is something wrong with me... not the world, not the experience, nah the suffering is normal and fine, it's my empathy that is the problem.

I don't want to suppress myself, I want to be the empathetic person I am while I help to make the world a better place... both, at the same time.

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:37 am

BlueLogic wrote:Mankind's capacity for evil is perhaps the most disturbing aspect of life. Hearing stories of the horrors committed against civilians during wartime, the pain inflicted on people by dictators to keep them obedient through fear, the brutality committed by individuals against their neighbors even in free and lawful countries, is more than enough to seriously challenge my belief in a Good and Just God. I realize a lot of people don't think God exists, and, in light of the subject, I totally understand why.

Why would he allow these things to happen? If he supposedly has the power to create the universe, why can't he stop people from hurting each other? I've heard it answered, "he doesn't stop us because he gave us free will, so that we could choose to do what's right because we recognize and desire what's good and right, rather than doing good because we have no choice which would be meaningless".

That doesn't make any sense from the perspective of the victim who's being raped by someone who had the free will to choose to hurt her. Where is the justice in that? Isn't God supposed to be Just? It sure as hell doesn't seem like justice when a man rapes then kills a woman and gets away with it all.

In my mind then, seeing that justice cannot be guaranteed in a world with free will, the value of free will can only be realized if this world, this life, is not the end. In other words, the only way God can both be Just and give us free will over our lives is if justice is delayed until we pass away from this world. And justice after we've already passed is only meaningful if there is a life for us to live after our death.

Anyway, that's how I cope with the terrible evil I see perpetrated on people. That's the only way I can keep from being totally consumed with dismay and hopelessness when there is no justice for so many. Our job then, is to do as much good as we can, to hopefully help those who've been hurt, and protect others from being hurt.

I really hope I didn't sound preachy.

Looking back over the posts, I realize I probably could have just said, "Right on Lombus. Charity and volunteerism is a great way to help people and do some good in this world." ;)
As an Atheist, I'll admit it's obvious why good people do believe. Hope that things will get better in some universal way such as an afterlife. It's just the "good guy" in me, is thinking about how that doesn't feel good enough. It all hinges on how there MIGHT be something after, but if this is the only life then it definitely is not good enough. I'm not deterring people from having that hope, but I think the main focus is to find out a better hope.

I've been trying to think of a more secular hope, and essentially so far I've come up with this:

I don't necessarily think everyone past and future needs to be in the "afterlife/better world" in the end in order for things to be "alright", in order for justice to be served. If there is no chance for people of the past to be in a better world, then there at least needs to be a better world where had they been there, they would've been happy. Essentially if you can answer "How would [insert person here], feel if they were here?", and no matter who it is you can answer that they'd be happy and everything would be alright for them... then justice has been served. The reason I think this, is because I feel even if I never get to live in a better world... that as long as I helped make that world exist, that makes me happy enough to outweigh the bad.

But I don't know how well this viewpoint works, it also doesn't do anything for my empathy towards the suffering currently. That's why I am asking for insight into how I may deal with it a bit better... and as I've said, so far the only advice I have is to not worry about it... which defeats the point. I want to have as much will as possible, to use towards making a better world but not by suppressing a part of myself.


Last edited by IronicParticle on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:40 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by BleedingUranium on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:38 am

I never said suffering is okay, but for the time being it's inevitable. It's simply reality.

For example, thousands of people die everyday in traffic collisions, but I can't do anything meaningful about that. All I can realistically do is try not to be involved in any. For all intents and purposes I'm doing all I can, thus I'm content with that.
avatar
BleedingUranium
Thresher Maw

Posts : 1921
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : BC, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:49 am

BleedingUranium wrote:I never said suffering is okay, but for the time being it's inevitable. It's simply reality.

For example, thousands of people die everyday in traffic collisions, but I can't do anything meaningful about that. All I can realistically do is try not to be involved in any. For all intents and purposes I'm doing all I can, thus I'm content with that.
I know you didn't... for me it's not about a lack of being content, of course I try my best to minimize suffering in the world and that brings closure on blaming myself. As I've said the point to empathy, is not that I'm causing the pain... but rather their hurting in general. If they hurt, I hurt.

I worry about it because that's who I am. I'm asking for help, whether from insight or whatever, to get a bit more motivation and willpower so I can be one of those great people who do more than anyone else... I want to do something great, but I don't have the willpower to be empathetic and do that at the same time.

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by BleedingUranium on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:51 am

I used to be overly empathetic like you, then I realized all I was doing was feeling negative emotions for no reason, so I stopped.
avatar
BleedingUranium
Thresher Maw

Posts : 1921
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : BC, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:47 am

BleedingUranium wrote:I used to be overly empathetic like you, then I realized all I was doing was feeling negative emotions for no reason, so I stopped.
Well it's certainly not for no reason, it's simple.. I care when people hurt. That's what empathy is. Also, you are admitting that you stopped being empathetic right? By definition, and this isn't meant as an insult, that's the definition of a psychopath. No joke, that's the 1 and only part of the test for psychopathy. It's not really "overly empathetic" either, it's scaled to the gravity of the situation. Essentially, you are saying you are "deficient" in empathy. You're overly apathetic...

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by BleedingUranium on Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:19 pm

No, I'm very empathetic, but I chose to stop being so about things I can't do anything about. It hurts me and benefits no one.
avatar
BleedingUranium
Thresher Maw

Posts : 1921
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : BC, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:19 am

BleedingUranium wrote:No, I'm very empathetic, but I chose to stop being so about things I can't do anything about. It hurts me and benefits no one.
Well, I didn't know being a good person had anything to do with benefits... Nice guys finish last, remember?

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by lex0r on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:08 am

IronicParticle wrote:
BleedingUranium wrote:No, I'm very empathetic, but I chose to stop being so about things I can't do anything about. It hurts me and benefits no one.
Well, I didn't know being a good person had anything to do with benefits... Nice guys finish last, remember?

I don't think that was the point he was trying to make, he was rather talking about the whole "thinking" about it. He didn't say anything about how he won't do anything because there are no benefits in it. It is totally fine to prioritize your own feelings or views on the world.

It just sounded to me as if you are accusing him of being selfish or apathetic with this common catchphrase. Just be very careful about what you say to people when you talk about a topic as serious as this one.

avatar
lex0r
Admin

Posts : 599
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:31 am

lex0r11 wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
BleedingUranium wrote:No, I'm very empathetic, but I chose to stop being so about things I can't do anything about. It hurts me and benefits no one.
Well, I didn't know being a good person had anything to do with benefits... Nice guys finish last, remember?

I don't think that was the point he was trying to make, he was rather talking about the whole "thinking" about it. He didn't say anything about how he won't do anything because there are no benefits in it. It is totally fine to prioritize your own feelings or views on the world.

It just sounded to me as if you are accusing him of being selfish or apathetic with this common catchphrase. Just be very careful about what you say to people when you talk about a topic as serious as this one.

I technically already directly said, they seemed to be apathetic. Nor is simply stating something, an insult. Just because something doesn't sound good, doesn't mean anything really. I'm a bit confused here. Essentially as far as I know, it's not that you care therefore you think... it's that you think therefore you care. Emotion is a reaction right? You can't have the reaction to something before it happens, or more importantly before you are aware of it. So it's the thought that precedes the care, not the care that proceeds the thought. For all intents and purposes this means, no thought=apathetic.

As I said before, apathy over something like this is what defines psychopathy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUsGDVOCLVQ

As you can see, the difference between a psychopath and a normal person is apathy. However, more specifically it's inherent apathy, as in you don't care even when you are aware of the problem. So Blur is not a psychopath, not a bad person either. If blur WAS aware, he/she would fit the group of normal people because in said scenario he/she would not be apathetic.

But that's not the point, by choosing to be Apathetic... you are essentially forcing yourself to be in the state... that makes the difference between a psychopath and a normal person, namely apathy. As I said I'm not trying to say Blur is a psychopath, it's Blur's right to shut off the "good" when nothing bad that can be helped is going on. All I am trying to say is I don't want to do that, Blur is the one who said my position is entirely pointless... but it's not. The point is, that I don't want to ever have to turn "off" the "good", even if it is safe to do... it's simply the mind set, I do not like being.

Also I should note: I do not purposely invoke the thoughts about such things as suffering in the world. It comes to my attention whether by news or whatever. I don't want to ignore it when it comes my way, I'd prefer dealing with the suffering than ignoring it. That's why I don't just shut off empathy... because I prefer the empathy, to the lack of it.

I want to face it head on, not avoid it. I dislike avoiding it, more than I dislike how bad I feel when I'm empathetic. So if anything, only advice that will help me take it head on will work.

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by lex0r on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:01 pm

@IronicParticle

So what have you done up until now to face those problems/your problems with those problems? I gather that you would like to do somethings about it, correct?

Because it is all very well that you can point to scientific principles or a video test on the internet to promote your mindset on these things but they are just one side of a coin. I'm just asking because I have been to the other side of this coin. As a result, I am convinced, without wanting to sound smug, that I am in a position to believe that you might change your stance on this a little bit to the middle of these two extremes after you have made direct contact with it all.

Believe me, I like to be idealistic on paper. But it is always easy on paper. If someone asked you what you would do in a certain situation and how your morals would hold up and you would say you know 100% what you would do, that would be a lie. You can only answer that question after you have been in that situation.

Maybe after awhile you too would choose to sometimes shut it out. Even if it is only for a short time.
avatar
lex0r
Admin

Posts : 599
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:53 pm

lex0r11 wrote:@IronicParticle

So what have you done up until now to face those problems/your problems with those problems? I gather that you would like to do somethings about it, correct?

Because it is all very well that you can point to scientific principles or a video test on the internet to promote your mindset on these things but they are just one side of a coin. I'm just asking because I have been to the other side of this coin. As a result, I am convinced, without wanting to sound smug, that I am in a position to believe that you might change your stance on this a little bit to the middle of these two extremes after you have made direct contact with it all.

Believe me, I like to be idealistic on paper. But it is always easy on paper. If someone asked you what you would do in a certain situation and how your morals would hold up and you would say you know 100% what you would do, that would be a lie. You can only answer that question after you have been in that situation.

Maybe after awhile you too would choose to sometimes shut it out. Even if it is only for a short time.
I take it head on, like I said. Which, as I said, uses up my will to the point where I can only do both that and live my usual life. If I wanted to sit here, and stay where I'm at? Then it'd be fine, I'm managing that already. Furthermore, I don't just spew an answer with 100% certainty... I've thought about it. As well, I already deal with it head on as it is, so technically I already have all the evidence I need of what I'd do. Not every person is the same, there are people for whom... it's not about easy or hard, it's about their values. You can see this throughout history.

I really don't get, why you're trying to convince me to just give in like that. If you've tried and you need to do it, that's your right. But this is the problem, you end up stunting growth in mental strength by advising others to FIRST try to cave in. If I was in your guy's position, I don't think I would be trying to spread it to everyone as much as possible. What if the next Genius is around the corner and you get him to do it, when he really doesn't need to and instead is stunted in ability because of it?

You're supposed to promote utmost strength in all facets of life, even if you yourself have had to fall back on alternatives.

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by lex0r on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:47 pm

Maybe I wasn't specific enough in my post. I am not advocating to just "give up". There is a difference between just giving up and taking a break from it all for a little while. And I get that you want this to be one of your values. I just wanted to know what you are planning to actually do about the worlds problems because you talked to another poster here about going into charity work or something.

And I gather from what was posted in here that your only contact with the worlds missery was through the media? TV, internet and such? If not, I hope you can share some of your experiences so I might better understand your positions on this. Don't you think there is a difference between watching report on CNN about how a group of people were locked in a burning building and actually being able to do something about it because you are in the same region right in the middle of it. We actually were in a position to turn misery into something better, to help a people in the best way we could. So we did our best but we couldn't fix everything. We can't be everywhere. We can't save every life or right every wrong. You think I like the idea of that? I am still trying to process the fact that I couldn't save a life. I learned through the reality of being right in the middle of this shit that you can't. We would've done more but we couldn't.

So don't be offended when I say it is very hard to swallow your "utmost strength in all facets of life" thing, when you actually haven't been anywhere near the sufferings you worry about. Don't say that it is "stunting growth in mental strength" when in reality admitting that you can't always take it requires great strength also.

You say that the therapist you consulted can't really help you because they don't get it. Then you can try to help yourself and your empathy in actually doing something. Look for something that is wrong and make it right.

I am an idealistic person in a time where you have to accept reality and do everything you can. There is no reason for you to believe anything from me. I'm just some dude on the internet but here it is.
avatar
lex0r
Admin

Posts : 599
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:56 pm

lex0r11 wrote:*snip*
Technically, there is not a difference when the subject in question is about taking it head on... because if the goal is to do that, and you are saying not to, then?

I can't solve the World's problems all by myself, what I would be planning to do is based on what I've seen succeed the most throughout history. Great people contribute something one way or another to the world, and it drastically helps. Many different ways to contribute, but the way that appeals to me the most is science... but I of course, need the motivation to move on from just being an average Joe in order for that to happen.

As for my contact with world misery, I've had first hand experience with that. Physical, Mental and sexual abuse, neglect. It doesn't help that I have a Biological relative who has mental issues, because that can be hereditary. But as a kid, I still had role models that helped me stay strong by giving me the values I do. I also want to add that my ADHD doesn't help... speaking of the news, I have thoughts racing uncontrollably all the time, if I hear grave news then the thoughts are going to trigger anyways. But I actually don't care, because if I could choose to I wouldn't... I already have shown signs of turning into a bad person, likely a serial killer, I know what it is like to be apathetic in the ACTUAL way a serial killer is... let it be known it was much worse than anything I've ever experienced, for someone like me, even of all the suffering I've had combined.

"when you actually haven't been anywhere near the sufferings you worry about."

What was the point of asking me if I've had any personal suffering, if you were going to presume that I had none?

"when in reality admitting that you can't always take it requires great strength also."

Glad you recognize this, considering I admit I am struggling to push beyond. Though, I believe you have no substance to say you can't, unless you try... and by try, I mean ACTUALLY try. If you've tried, and you are strong enough to admit you can't, good. But I am still in the process of trying, and I am miles away from being allowed to say that I've tried.

"Look for something that is wrong and make it right."

That's where I'm at, that's the average Joe. Not that there is anything wrong with the average Joe, I just strive to be the not-so average Joe.

"I am an idealistic person in a time where you have to accept reality and do everything you can."

As am I. I tend to be "stubbornly" logical, and logically the refutation of being idealistic that it's "unrealistic" is a load of crock. It's very simple actually, and complicated at the same time, but really look around. We live in a world dominated by a majority of real villains, throughout history it's the Heroes who are the minority.

However, it takes so many villains to create the despair we have reached. But it took the few Heroes that there have been, to do a lot just by themselves individually. It's obvious, if the majority WERE Heroes, they'd create much more prosperity than the despair we have now. Furthermore there is hardly such thing as bad people, most of it is good people for which corruption took a hold of first. Corruption is weak, if you lean on it, it crumbles. This is not unrealistic, it's fact.

Those arguing it is unrealistic, I'm sorry to sound like I'm the idealist who is being naive... But I'm not, it's rational.

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by lex0r on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:07 pm

IronicParticle wrote:

[...]

"when you actually haven't been anywhere near the sufferings you worry about."

What was the point of asking me if I've had any personal suffering, if you were going to presume that I had none?

"when in reality admitting that you can't always take it requires great strength also."

Glad you recognize this, considering I admit I am struggling to push beyond. Though, I believe you have no substance to say you can't, unless you try... and by try, I mean ACTUALLY try. If you've tried, and you are strong enough to admit you can't, good. But I am still in the process of trying, and I am miles away from being allowed to say that I've tried.


The first was poor wording from me. I meant if you've been to any place where there is suffering and you tried to help. I now know that you yourself are a victim of the subject we are talking about but I'd still like to know if you ever been in another part of the world seeing it for yourself. Seeing other people suffer in person in contrast to other people watching it on TV.

About the second part I quoted. You are in no position to say "you have no substance to say you can't" to anyone when you haven't been in the same situation. That was the point I was trying to make. You cannot judge about these situation unless you've been there. Everything else is just an assumption. And as I tried to explain, we did more than try. We helped everyone we could while we were there. And the paradoxical thing about it all was that "helping" was never the main objective of our assignments. We just made it so because we had the means to help. We didn't give up just because some of us are at home now, but the thing about what we did is you can't do it forever. I can totally understand people who can't go back to it. They have done more for the sake of another human being in 6 months than most others will ever do in their entire life. So I'd like so see someone critize a person who wants to get away from it all, at least for awhile, because he/she has seen enough burned or mutilated corpses. Someone died right in front of me because I couldn't find the right way to prevent it from happening. I learned, I kept on going until it was time for us to go gack.

I like to think that I can speak for everyone in that group I worked with. So again, no one gave up on anything. No one is lacking strength or willpower. I imagine there are very few people who can do this for years without a little down time. This is my assumption now, because I still have to meet such a person. But everything else I said is from experience and you can think of it what you want. What I am talking about goes beyond the "being a volunteer in a soup kitchen". I am not belittling it, I am just saying that my experience comes from contact with the worst of the worst that happens on this planet. And it is not for everyone. I just hope I was specific enough to bring it across.

I also did not try to say that being idealistic is unrealistic itself. The part when you have to project those ideals onto the world will sometimes be unrealistic. The reality is that everything that you imagine has to happen will not always work. Sometimes it is just impossible. That is what you have to accept. The world as it is now doesn't work in absolutes.

I am trying to understand your position but simply cannot believe you due to the reasons I explained above. But I'm glad to hear that you are in the process of "getting there", and maybe you will gain a new perspective or maybe not. I hope I did understand that right. And I hope you will find a way to help others because I can see how much this means to you.



edit
I seem to have missed something from your post. I thought you were making assumptions, so I striked my response to that.
avatar
lex0r
Admin

Posts : 599
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:48 pm

lex0r11 wrote:*snip*
"I seem to have missed something from your post. I thought you were making assumptions, so I striked my response to that."

I want to clarify that reading your post it does seem like you assumed I meant something I didn't. For example I wasn't criticizing anyone, I was in fact just explaning my position, I was not meaning to put down anyone else. I can see how it felt that way...

"Though, I believe you have no substance to say you can't, unless you try... and by try, I mean ACTUALLY try."

This was not actually meant at YOU Lexor. When I said "I believe you have no substance" by "you" I meant any person in general who is in said scenario. I also wasn't criticizing anyone for doing what you suggest. If anything, I was holding judgement of myself. I can't say I'VE tried, until I've actually tried. Nor do I intend to become apathetic PERSONALLY.

"I am trying to understand your position but simply cannot believe you due to the reasons I explained above."

What reason, that I don't know what it's like? What I find interesting, is that you're the person who's suffered severely because you have experience with witnessing someone suffer severely... and I'm the kind of person you would have seen suffer. So even IF I didn't have first hand experience of watching other people suffer, I know how the people feel when I hear of their suffering... Ironically, I HAVE had first hand experience of watching other people suffer and not being able to help it. Alas, I have siblings, you think I was the only one to endure what I did? I'm not doubting you at all, you're the one doubting me, just remember that.

Which now, the worst thing of all for someone like me: Becoming the person who causes the suffering. I know what that's like, do you? you know what it's like to not be able to help save people from monstrosities, but do you know what it's like BEING one of those monstrosities? Worst thing ever... the most maddening fact is not the suffering in the world, it's that the suffering is perpetrated by victims and accidents. So I personally don't want anything to do with apathy, I've felt the psychopathic kind and that was enough for a lifetime for me... and enough for me to never hate a bad person again because I am now capable of empathizing with their situation.

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by lex0r on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:45 pm

IronicParticle wrote:

[...]

Which now, the worst thing of all for someone like me: Becoming the person who causes the suffering. I know what that's like, do you? you know what it's like to not be able to help save people from monstrosities, but do you know what it's like BEING one of those monstrosities? Worst thing ever... the most maddening fact is not the suffering in the world, it's that the suffering is perpetrated by victims and accidents. So I personally don't want anything to do with apathy, I've felt the psychopathic kind and that was enough for a lifetime for me... and enough for me to never hate a bad person again because I am now capable of empathizing with their situation.

I'm not sure if what I am about to say will sound similar to yours, but here it is.

I am a soldier. I was taught various ways to efficiently render a hostile individual incapacitated. The technical term sounds odd, doesn't it? But yeah, I was taught to kill. Or to inflict injuries to a person so severe that they were incapacitated. A big portion of that training was with firearms. Now here comes the thing I was pondering about for awhile. As a person I hate the concept of a weapon. I hate that it exists because I know what we can do to each other with that weapon. I am frightened of it, I detest it. Yet at the same time, I can't deny the feeling of handling a weapon. A certain sublimely good feeling. The touch. Firing it. The Precision. I hate it but at the same time I admire it. And I have my concerns that one day I might just accept it. I kind off want to hate myself for feeling this fascination or if the fear goes away.

Someone told me that it is good I am scared of that weapon. It is good to have respect for such a tool. And it might make me a better person than someone who doesn't have these thoughts. Granted, it might seem odd for someone with such feelings about weapons to become a soldier but that story doesn't belong here right now. Maybe later.

I still think about it, but I mostly know what that makes me. What do you think?
avatar
lex0r
Admin

Posts : 599
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Terramine on Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:52 am

lex0r11 wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:

[...]

Which now, the worst thing of all for someone like me: Becoming the person who causes the suffering. I know what that's like, do you? you know what it's like to not be able to help save people from monstrosities, but do you know what it's like BEING one of those monstrosities? Worst thing ever... the most maddening fact is not the suffering in the world, it's that the suffering is perpetrated by victims and accidents. So I personally don't want anything to do with apathy, I've felt the psychopathic kind and that was enough for a lifetime for me... and enough for me to never hate a bad person again because I am now capable of empathizing with their situation.

I'm not sure if what I am about to say will sound similar to yours, but here it is.

I am a soldier. I was taught various ways to efficiently render a hostile individual incapacitated. The technical term sounds odd, doesn't it? But yeah, I was taught to kill. Or to inflict injuries to a person so severe that they were incapacitated. A big portion of that training was with firearms. Now here comes the thing I was pondering about for awhile. As a person I hate the concept of a weapon. I hate that it exists because I know what we can do to each other with that weapon. I am frightened of it, I detest it. Yet at the same time, I can't deny the feeling of handling a weapon. A certain sublimely good feeling. The touch. Firing it. The Precision. I hate it but at the same time I admire it. And I have my concerns that one day I might just accept it. I kind off want to hate myself for feeling this fascination or if the fear goes away.

Someone told me that it is good I am scared of that weapon. It is good to have respect for such a tool. And it might make me a better person than someone who doesn't have these thoughts. Granted, it might seem odd for someone with such feelings about weapons to become a soldier but that story doesn't belong here right now. Maybe later.

I still think about it, but I mostly know what that makes me. What do you think?
That does sound pretty similar, I think it's the same concept except centered around an object rather than Apathy. I don't know about you, everyone's an individual and thus hardly ever the same. But for me, on what that makes me, I've come to conclude that the side of me that enjoys it... the side of me that is this dark twisted "thing". Is not me, it's something else... whatever it is, it is definitely not me. So I try to remember that, and push it back. Which is another thing I have to spend my willpower on doing. Sometimes it leaks through.

Another thing I learned from apathy, is what insanity feels like. The first time I ever faced the psychopathic apathy, it was out of the blue. I was ALMOST completely apathetic to every emotion, which I noticed right away. This started to annoy me, but without anger... however the hell that is possible. I knew I was supposed to feel anger, or sadness, or happiness in a specific moment... but instead nothing. Which was driving me crazy, it was like being starved of emotion, you KNOW what you are supposed to feel but no matter what you don't feel anything. This is where I felt insanity, which is that I couldn't get over it till I felt emotion again. Insanity, is the depravity of something that you absolutely must have. Not that you ACTUALLY need it, not like food or water, but rather something that you feel you must have. Not in the sense of being spoiled or something to that effect, neigh it's a feeling that you cannot control.

You can see it in people who have Schizophrenia, an example is someone who believes a specific person MUST die. In their head, it's as needed as food or water. Not because THEY want it to be so, but rather there is this undying "hunger" for it. Insanity, feels like that "hunger".... it is that hunger.

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2468
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 24
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: World Suffering?(Warning, VERY depressing and dark topic, 18+)

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum