Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:44 pm

shep117 wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:I played it Shep.

Good DLC overall but I am not sure I quite agree with the ending. I like how it ties Infinite into Bioshock 1 but beyond that I have some gripes.

Great DLC still though, much longer than the first and with some interesting pieces. Always lovely to see more of Elizabeth and (sort of) Booker.

The overall dlc was pretty grim, I too liked the way they tied it to Bioshock 1, the moment they showed us the plane I had goosebumps all over. I too have mixed feelings for the ending, I think it suits her character pretty well ( debt paid in full just like booker ) but they put her through so much ( that lobotomy scene ) only to end up that way.

Yeah that lobotomy scene was nasty.

And she has indeed been through so much, even just before the DLC, I just felt Elizabeth deserved better in the end. I also cant shake the feeling that she really should have just walked away on this. Yes she set the stage for saving the little sisters, but thousands of people in Rapture died as a direct result of her actions...and while Rapture was not the nicest place even before Bioshock 1 (that school near the start of Burial at Sea 2 told its clear language about how children were raised) I cant imagine everyone deserved what was unleashed upon the city.

Also i have a bit of a personal gripe gameplay wise with the way the ending played out. This is in general about gameplay and story segregation though, but I felt it more than ever in this DLC. Elizabeth knows she will be killed, we know she will be killed, yet we cant do anything about it because the game took away our plasmids without a sufficient explanation as to how. Weapons are explainable enough, but plasmids?

Maybe it is just me who has not played Bioshock 1 if it is explained there,but it seriously bothered me. At least they could have given us an empty salt bar and just not given us any salt, would have been a better solution.

4 shots of possesion in the end and Atlas would be dead, the people possesed knocked out by the upgrade you can get to possesion and Elizabeth would be free to walk away with Sally. Hell just a good steel pipe and invisibility could with some trickery have been enough.

But no...

Only comfort is that we probably still have at least one universe where Booker got another chance at raising Anna as per the after credits scene of Infinite's main story.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by ericformans_sisterisdead on Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:11 pm

i thought this dlc was fantastic and u deff cannot play this or appreciate it as much if u didnt play bioshock 1 and 2. Raistlin u fucked up

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Raistlin Majere on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:50 pm

ericformans_sisterisdead wrote:i thought this dlc was fantastic and u deff cannot play this or appreciate it as much if u didnt play bioshock 1 and 2.  Raistlin u fucked up

Maybe, but to be fair I did not come into the DLC to appreciate the return to Rapture. I came into it for a followup to Elizabeth's story, the ending to which did not really satisfy me.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by shep117 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:09 am

Raistlin Majere wrote:
shep117 wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:I played it Shep.

Good DLC overall but I am not sure I quite agree with the ending. I like how it ties Infinite into Bioshock 1 but beyond that I have some gripes.

Great DLC still though, much longer than the first and with some interesting pieces. Always lovely to see more of Elizabeth and (sort of) Booker.

The overall dlc was pretty grim, I too liked the way they tied it to Bioshock 1, the moment they showed us the plane I had goosebumps all over. I too have mixed feelings for the ending, I think it suits her character pretty well ( debt paid in full just like booker ) but they put her through so much ( that lobotomy scene ) only to end up that way.

Yeah that lobotomy scene was nasty.

And she has indeed been through so much, even just before the DLC, I just felt Elizabeth deserved better in the end. I also cant shake the feeling that she really should have just walked away on this. Yes she set the stage for saving the little sisters, but thousands of people in Rapture died as a direct result of her actions...and while Rapture was not the nicest place even before Bioshock 1 (that school near the start of Burial at Sea 2 told its clear language about how children were raised) I cant imagine everyone deserved what was unleashed upon the city.

Also i have a bit of a personal gripe gameplay wise with the way the ending played out. This is in general about gameplay and story segregation though, but I felt it more than ever in this DLC. Elizabeth knows she will be killed, we know she will be killed, yet we cant do anything about it because the game took away our plasmids without a sufficient explanation as to how. Weapons are explainable enough, but plasmids?

Maybe it is just me who has not played Bioshock 1 if it is explained there,but it seriously bothered me. At least they could have given us an empty salt bar and just not given us any salt, would have been a better solution.

4 shots of possesion in the end and Atlas would be dead, the people possesed knocked out by the upgrade you can get to possesion and Elizabeth would be free to walk away with Sally. Hell just a good steel pipe and invisibility could with some trickery have been enough.

But no...

Only comfort is that we probably still have at least one universe where Booker got another chance at raising Anna as per the after credits scene of Infinite's main story.

I agree that Elizabeth deserved better but I think she chose to die, she was a captive all her life and when she finally broke free. She got her ultimate freedom, she could be anywhere at any point of time, I like to think she visited places not just Paris, but got lonely she had freedom but no one to share it with , no one could understand her or what she has been through. The only person that did was Booker. He was her only friend and I think the Paris sequence shows that. Where everyone seemed know her and back in Rapture, she says she was not happy even in Paris. The elevator scene where she sees Infinite Booker and Liz and when she says she missed Booker it was heartbreaking. I think she thought she had nothing to live for. Elizabeth was omniscient she knew every possible outcome, she knew the Big Daddy would attack her after it was done with Comstock, she knew her super positioned self would come back to Rapture and loose her powers and at the end die like a normal person. She was a smart woman with omniscient powers if she wanted she could have saved Sally and come out of this unharmed.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by shep117 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:12 am

@ericformans_sisterisdead
and I do agree, it was a treat for long time Bioshock fans. The Big Daddy scene with those two little sisters and all the tidbits of detailing were great, and that Suchong death scene, I remember trying to visualize it during bioshock 1 and being there to see how it happened was awesome.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite: Will the circle be unbroken..? *** MAJOR SPOILERS ***

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:58 pm

shep117 wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:
shep117 wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:I played it Shep.

Good DLC overall but I am not sure I quite agree with the ending. I like how it ties Infinite into Bioshock 1 but beyond that I have some gripes.

Great DLC still though, much longer than the first and with some interesting pieces. Always lovely to see more of Elizabeth and (sort of) Booker.

The overall dlc was pretty grim, I too liked the way they tied it to Bioshock 1, the moment they showed us the plane I had goosebumps all over. I too have mixed feelings for the ending, I think it suits her character pretty well ( debt paid in full just like booker ) but they put her through so much ( that lobotomy scene ) only to end up that way.

Yeah that lobotomy scene was nasty.

And she has indeed been through so much, even just before the DLC, I just felt Elizabeth deserved better in the end. I also cant shake the feeling that she really should have just walked away on this. Yes she set the stage for saving the little sisters, but thousands of people in Rapture died as a direct result of her actions...and while Rapture was not the nicest place even before Bioshock 1 (that school near the start of Burial at Sea 2 told its clear language about how children were raised) I cant imagine everyone deserved what was unleashed upon the city.

Also i have a bit of a personal gripe gameplay wise with the way the ending played out. This is in general about gameplay and story segregation though, but I felt it more than ever in this DLC. Elizabeth knows she will be killed, we know she will be killed, yet we cant do anything about it because the game took away our plasmids without a sufficient explanation as to how. Weapons are explainable enough, but plasmids?

Maybe it is just me who has not played Bioshock 1 if it is explained there,but it seriously bothered me. At least they could have given us an empty salt bar and just not given us any salt, would have been a better solution.

4 shots of possesion in the end and Atlas would be dead, the people possesed knocked out by the upgrade you can get to possesion and Elizabeth would be free to walk away with Sally. Hell just a good steel pipe and invisibility could with some trickery have been enough.

But no...

Only comfort is that we probably still have at least one universe where Booker got another chance at raising Anna as per the after credits scene of Infinite's main story.

I agree that Elizabeth deserved better but I think she chose to die, she was a captive all her life and when she finally broke free. She got her ultimate freedom, she could be anywhere at any point of time, I like to think she visited places not just Paris, but got lonely she had freedom but no one to share it with , no one could understand her or what she has been through. The only person that did was Booker. He was her only friend and I think the Paris sequence shows that. Where everyone seemed know her and back in Rapture, she says she was not happy even in Paris. The elevator scene where she sees Infinite Booker and Liz and when she says she missed Booker it was heartbreaking. I think she thought she had nothing to live for. Elizabeth was omniscient she knew every possible outcome, she knew the Big Daddy would attack her after it was done with Comstock, she knew her super positioned self would come back to Rapture and loose her powers and at the end die like a normal person. She was a smart woman with omniscient powers if she wanted she could have saved Sally and come out of this unharmed.

And of course, one thing to keep in mind is that the Stinger at the end of Bioshock Infinite still applies.  Booker still lives on in another universe, and Anna still gets to grow up and live a normal life.  Ultimately, I don't think Bioshock really could have ended any other way.  With the death of Elizabeth, the debt is paid in full.  Comstock is gone, the Booker who sold Anna is gone, Elizabeth is gone, and everything else related to that particular reality is gone.  Well, except the Luteces.  We never know exactly what happened to them.  That might be a plot point in whatever the next Bioshock is.  However, on the whole, the Infinite universe as it pertains to us is, for all intents and purposes, gone.  Just as the Infinite universe is gone for us, likely to never return, so is it gone for the Bioshock multiverse as a whole.  For a game as meta as Bioshock Infinite, I really don't think there could be any other ending.

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