If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by RavenEyry on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:37 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
RavenEyry wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
It's proven because IT is fact, hence Theory.

What is this, I don't even...
Please refute it or shut the fuck up.

Proof: Evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

IT is fact, because as a Theory we've compiled evidence that establishes it as so. Since it's fact, that means it's proven.

In this same way, Evolution is proven and only batshit crazy people end up question it. So I don't get the double standard.

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:47 pm

RavenEyry wrote:
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
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. . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.}
. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../
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. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
. . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__
,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-,
. .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--

Why do you guys get to spam? This just proves you don't give actual logical reasons and instead result in a lot of bullshit and self ego promoting.

100% of all the evidence points to IT. Not even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% goes against it. That's conclusive.

something unbelievably minor like Bioware claiming they intended IT, is not going to actually bring any more real evidence to the table. Their word means nothing.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:51 pm

IronicParticle wrote:Cronos Station does not seem real because of how perfectly it was lined up. Why would you wipe out Cerberus JUST before going to wipe out the Reapers? It just seems too perfect.
Quoting so it doesn't get lost.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:52 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Cronos Station does not seem real because of how perfectly it was lined up. Why would you wipe out Cerberus JUST before going to wipe out the Reapers? It just seems too perfect.
Quoting so it doesn't get lost.
A lot of games have you eliminate the main villian's henchmen before facing the main villian.
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Charlie Sheen on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:53 pm

Everything since the beginning of ME2 is indoctrination/a dream.

Can you refute that? No because not even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% goes against it.

Anyway, this arguing is going no where.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:55 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
100% of all the evidence points to IT. Not even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% goes against it. That's conclusive.

something unbelievably minor like Bioware claiming they intended IT, is not going to actually bring any more real evidence to the table. Their word means nothing.
Religious people say the same thing. 100% of evidence points to *insert deity/force here*'s work in all things, yet until *insert deity/force here* comes out and says it exists, there will be people doubting it's existance.

Same with IT, until Bioware comes out and says that they intended IT, people will doubt it's existance.
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:59 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
100% of all the evidence points to IT. Not even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% goes against it. That's conclusive.

something unbelievably minor like Bioware claiming they intended IT, is not going to actually bring any more real evidence to the table. Their word means nothing.
Religious people say the same thing. 100% of evidence points to *insert deity/force here*'s work in all things, yet until *insert deity/force here* comes out and says it exists, there will be people doubting it's existance.

Same with IT, until Bioware comes out and says that they intended IT, people will doubt it's existance.
Selim horrible example, Religious people say they have 100% evidence when they really have 0%. Hence why people doubt them and why only children and people in a gullible state are converted.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:59 pm

Drewton wrote:Everything since the beginning of ME2 is indoctrination/a dream.

Can you refute that? No because not even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% goes against it.

Anyway, this arguing is going no where.
Wrong, there is loads of evidence against Hellish's idea. I can list some if you want, and none of it will go against IT.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:00 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
100% of all the evidence points to IT. Not even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% goes against it. That's conclusive.

something unbelievably minor like Bioware claiming they intended IT, is not going to actually bring any more real evidence to the table. Their word means nothing.
Religious people say the same thing. 100% of evidence points to *insert deity/force here*'s work in all things, yet until *insert deity/force here* comes out and says it exists, there will be people doubting it's existance.

Same with IT, until Bioware comes out and says that they intended IT, people will doubt it's existance.
Selim horrible example, Religious people say they have 100% evidence when they really have 0%. Hence why people doubt them and why only children and people in a gullible state are converted.
What do you know, that's what the "reductionalists" say about us.
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:04 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Selim horrible example, Religious people say they have 100% evidence when they really have 0%. Hence why people doubt them and why only children and people in a gullible state are converted.
What do you know, that's what the "reductionalists" say about us.
But yet Selim, using logic and reason you can deduce the reality of the situation. The fact that you've tried to argue your way out of logic, puts you closer to the literalists than however much you think I am.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:08 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Selim horrible example, Religious people say they have 100% evidence when they really have 0%. Hence why people doubt them and why only children and people in a gullible state are converted.
What do you know, that's what the "reductionalists" say about us.
But yet Selim, using logic and reason you can deduce the reality of the situation. The fact that you've tried to argue your way out of logic, puts you closer to the literalists than however much you think I am.
They see their interpretaion and logic as valid as you see yours. I never said you were close to a literalist, and as I said earlier "all interpretations are valid to me" so I'm sure I appear closer to literalists to ITers the same way as I appear closer to IT than literalists.
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:14 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:They see their interpretaion and logic as valid as you see yours. I never said you were close to a literalist, and as I said earlier "all interpretations are valid to me" so I'm sure I appear closer to literalists to ITers the same way as I appear closer to IT than literalists.
But there is no such thing as "their logic" or "my logic". There is only 1 logic, and only 1 person can be closer to actually following logic. Both cannot be logical.

I understand they believe it makes sense, but only the person ACTUALLY using logic is closer to knowing the reality.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:16 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Cronos Station does not seem real because of how perfectly it was lined up. Why would you wipe out Cerberus JUST before going to wipe out the Reapers? It just seems too perfect.
Quoting so it doesn't get lost.
A lot of games have you eliminate the main villian's henchmen before facing the main villian.
I don't think that's how Bioware works....

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Charlie Sheen on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:18 pm

That's exactly how KotOR worked.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:22 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Cronos Station does not seem real because of how perfectly it was lined up. Why would you wipe out Cerberus JUST before going to wipe out the Reapers? It just seems too perfect.
Quoting so it doesn't get lost.
A lot of games have you eliminate the main villian's henchmen before facing the main villian.
I don't think that's how Bioware works....

You take out all commandos before facing Benezia
You take out all Thorian thralls before facing Thorian
You take out all slavers before facing Balak
You take out all Heretics on the Citadel before facing Saren
You take out all Shadow Boker Guards before facing Shadow Broker
etc, etc

Mass Effect not only does this in general, they do this in Mass Effect.
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:23 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:They see their interpretaion and logic as valid as you see yours. I never said you were close to a literalist, and as I said earlier "all interpretations are valid to me" so I'm sure I appear closer to literalists to ITers the same way as I appear closer to IT than literalists.
But there is no such thing as "their logic" or "my logic". There is only 1 logic, and only 1 person can be closer to actually following logic. Both cannot be logical.

I understand they believe it makes sense, but only the person ACTUALLY using logic is closer to knowing the reality.
But there is their interpretation and your interpretation, and since this doesn't take place in the real world, we cannot test to find the "true" logic.
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:31 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Cronos Station does not seem real because of how perfectly it was lined up. Why would you wipe out Cerberus JUST before going to wipe out the Reapers? It just seems too perfect.
Quoting so it doesn't get lost.
A lot of games have you eliminate the main villian's henchmen before facing the main villian.
I don't think that's how Bioware works....

You take out all commandos before facing Benezia
You take out all Thorian thralls before facing Thorian
You take out all slavers before facing Balak
You take out all Heretics on the Citadel before facing Saren
You take out all Shadow Boker Guards before facing Shadow Broker
etc, etc

Mass Effect not only does this in general, they do this in Mass Effect.
Well it doesn't really change the fact that the timing seems too perfect.

You take out Cerberus, then take out TIM. Timed perfectly to take out the Reapers. While the Reapers have indoctrinated TIM, TIM is not technically a henchmen. He is a also a main villain unto himself. Hence why some people are upset with how he went out because they feel he needed more consideration from Bioware.

Taking him out was times perfectly.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:33 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:Cronos Station does not seem real because of how perfectly it was lined up. Why would you wipe out Cerberus JUST before going to wipe out the Reapers? It just seems too perfect.
Quoting so it doesn't get lost.
A lot of games have you eliminate the main villian's henchmen before facing the main villian.
I don't think that's how Bioware works....

You take out all commandos before facing Benezia
You take out all Thorian thralls before facing Thorian
You take out all slavers before facing Balak
You take out all Heretics on the Citadel before facing Saren
You take out all Shadow Boker Guards before facing Shadow Broker
etc, etc

Mass Effect not only does this in general, they do this in Mass Effect.
Well it doesn't really change the fact that the timing seems too perfect.

You take out Cerberus, then take out TIM. Timed perfectly to take out the Reapers. While the Reapers have indoctrinated TIM, TIM is not technically a henchmen. He is a also a main villain unto himself. Hence why some people are upset with how he went out because they feel he needed more consideration from Bioware.

Taking him out was times perfectly.
Mass Effect is a work of fiction. There's going to be those moments. It was convenient that we eliminate any minions before fighting the boss too. And he'a a villian, yet still a henchmen, like Benezia.
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:40 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:But there is their interpretation and your interpretation, and since this doesn't take place in the real world, we cannot test to find the "true" logic.
There is loads of logic behind the notion that the literalist ending is bad writing. But since we are off topic as it is, I won't go into detail, I'm simply listing an example. Needless to say a lot of IT's evidence is logic based.

As well, everything in ME points to IT but none of it goes against it. Why? Because despite what has been said, it is NOT just an interpretation. It's directly in the name, Indoctrination THEORY. A Theory is an interpretation of facts, so yes it's an interpretation, but one based solely on fact and has the full support of ALL fact and the opposition of NO facts.

If the facts pointed elsewhere, a different theory would've taken it's place. There is other theories, but they are not as well substantiated.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:58 pm

Selim Bradley wrote:Mass Effect is a work of fiction. There's going to be those moments. It was convenient that we eliminate any minions before fighting the boss too. And he'a a villian, yet still a henchmen, like Benezia.
Except there is many other things that make Chronos make no sense and seem to be constructed from the mind. So much so that every ITer I've seen has at least concluded that while not part of the dream, is full of hallucinations. So not only does it fit so perfectly, but the whole nature of it also seems off. It seems perfect even more so because it fits the whole dream weirdness.

As for treating TIM as a henchmen. Then that would violate the normal ordeal still. According to you it doesn't go Henchmen<Henchmen<Villain according to you it's Henchmen<Villain.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:06 am

IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:Mass Effect is a work of fiction. There's going to be those moments. It was convenient that we eliminate any minions before fighting the boss too. And he'a a villian, yet still a henchmen, like Benezia.
Except there is many other things that make Chronos make no sense and seem to be constructed from the mind. So much so that every ITer I've seen has at least concluded that while not part of the dream, is full of hallucinations. So not only does it fit so perfectly, but the whole nature of it also seems off. It seems perfect even more so because it fits the whole dream weirdness.

As for treating TIM as a henchmen. Then that would violate the normal ordeal still. According to you it doesn't go Henchmen<Henchmen<Villain according to you it's Henchmen<Villain.
You said it seemed too perfectly timed, and I responded that works of fiction have those moments. as for Chronos not being all reality, I'm not touching that. And it does go like you said: Cerberus< TIM< Reapers. You eliminate them in that order. TIm is the leder of Cerberus, yet a henchman of the Reapers. Just like Saruman was the leader of the orcs, yet a henchman of Sauron.
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Terramine on Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:15 am

Selim Bradley wrote: You said it seemed too perfectly timed, and I responded that works of fiction have those moments. as for Chronos not being all reality, I'm not touching that. And it does go like you said: Cerberus< TIM< Reapers. You eliminate them in that order. TIm is the leder of Cerberus, yet a henchman of the Reapers. Just like Saruman was the leader of the orcs, yet a henchman of Sauron.
Hm alright then, I take back the "feeling perfectly timed" thing.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by BleedingUranium on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:34 am

All fiction is "perfectly timed", and Mass Effect is a standard Hero's Journey.

I think Cronos is 100% real, please don't speak for everyone.

IT is not proven.
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BleedingUranium
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:36 am

BleedingUranium wrote:All fiction is "perfectly timed", and Mass Effect is a standard Hero's Journey.

I think Cronos is 100% real, please don't speak for everyone.

IT is not proven.
I agree 100%.


Last edited by Selim Bradley on Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

Post by Charlie Sheen on Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:33 am

BleedingUranium wrote:All fiction is "perfectly timed", and Mass Effect is a standard Hero's Journey.

I think Cronos is 100% real, please don't speak for everyone.

IT is not proven.
This.

I also think Citadel is 100% real and pre-ending.

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Re: If you think the breath scene isn't on the Citadel and that Cronos Station is real: WHY?

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