Evil Gods?

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:25 am

Drewton wrote:So in other gods, they are like gods but they are not actually gods? Non-gods cannot create gods. How does something non-inter-dimensional even create something inter-dimensional, let alone gods?

It's debatable whether or not they created Harbinger.

Like Saren said, all advanced technology seems to be beyond our comprehension.
Why can't a non-god create a god? There is nothing in the laws of physics that makes this impossible and one way to refute one of the versions of the Ontological argument is to point out the possibility that a lesser god created an even higher god.

AIs prove you can create something more complex than yourself. Basically you build a super powerful AI, and it will surpass you... this is like common knowledge.

I mean hell, everything in the laws of physics says more complex things come from less complex things. As seen in Astronomy and Evolution.

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Charlie Sheen on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:27 am

What is your definition of a god?

How does super powerful AI = god?

IronicParticle wrote:The Reapers are real gods if you define a god as a creator of the universe/universes or/and life.
Do you mean aren't? Because the Reapers didn't create the universe.


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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:35 am

Drewton wrote:What is your definition of a god?

How does super powerful AI = god?

IronicParticle wrote:The Reapers are real gods if you define a god as a creator of the universe/universes or/and life.
Do you mean aren't? Because the Reapers didn't create the universe.
They are able to though, since they are above the laws of physics. If you are above the laws of physics, just talk to my man Carl Sagan. You can create an apple pie from scratch as he put it, meaning you can create something from nothing. Thus, you could create a universe and control it's laws, etc.

In order to become a god you need the intelligence required to violate the laws of physics. Ergo, an AI is the best candidate. It's also possible, that becoming a god is impossible. But that's a bit irrelevant.

I personally define a god to be the most great thing possible. Which is why I'm more Pantheist than I am Atheist, which is to say I consider the Universe(and potential Multiverse even more so) itself worthy of that title. So the Reapers are fake gods to me, they are also fake gods under the definition of a morally perfect being.


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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:36 am

This seems a perfect quote for this. It's from my Comparison Project. Just replace Philosopher's Stone with Proto-Reaper, and Honunculus with Reaper.

“You insist on treating humans as a lower lifeform, but don’t you see: only through them can a Philosopher’s Stone be created, and only through a stone can a Homunculus arise, but what does a Homunculus produce? What do you create? Creation is all and you’ve done nothing but destroy. You may think you’ve reached a perfect state of being, but in truth all you’ve reached is a dead end.” – Van Hohenheim


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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:48 am

Selim Bradley wrote:This seems a perfect quote for this. It's from my Comparison Project. Just replace Philosopher's Stone with Proto-Reaper, and Honunculus with Reaper.

“You insist on treating humans as a lower lifeform, but don’t you see: only through them can a Philosopher’s Stone be created, and only through a stone can a Homunculus arise, but what does a Homunculus produce? What do you create? Creation is all and you’ve done nothing but destroy. You may think you’ve reached a perfect state of being, but in truth all you’ve reached is a dead end.” – Van Hohenheim

Sums it up yes. I like how FMA fits with it pretty well.

Also SwobyJ has a point, religion does not HAVE to be built in a way that you end up worshiping an evil god and that it's just been twisted to do so. It is more anti-abuse of religion than anything else. But it also depends on whether you think that it will ever change or not. Which honestly there is no evidence of such, Religion is a dogma and dogmas will always be corruptible. Spirituality has never been a problem, it's the dogma of Religion that is the problem.

There will always, at least until WAAAAAAAYYYYYY into the future, be people who will corrupt it. It seems that it makes vastly more sense to leave it behind, instead of keeping it around for hundreds of thousands more years so it can cause hundreds of thousands more years of pointless suffering and bloodshed in exchange for goodness that can be achieved without religion anyways.

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Charlie Sheen on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:53 am

IronicParticle wrote:It seems that it makes vastly more sense to leave it behind, instead of keeping it around for thousands more years so it can cause thousands more years of pointless suffering and bloodshed in exchange for goodness that can be achieved without religion anyways.
It's obvious you just have an anti-religion agenda with this thread and you're imposing these ideas on the game as fact.

I can just as easily say with as much reasoning if not more that Mass Effect is a kind of Christian allegory, with Shepard being a Christ figure, the Reapers being devils, and more. And that synthesis or even mass relays are the forbidden fruit. The list could go on and on...

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:05 am

Drewton wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:It seems that it makes vastly more sense to leave it behind, instead of keeping it around for thousands more years so it can cause thousands more years of pointless suffering and bloodshed in exchange for goodness that can be achieved without religion anyways.
It's obvious you just have an anti-religion agenda with this thread and you're imposing these ideas on the game as fact.

I can just as easily say that Mass Effect is a kind of Christian allegory, with Shepard being a Christ figure, the Reapers being devils, and more. And that synthesis or even mass relays are the forbidden fruit. The list could go on and on...
I was not, sorry to say but what you quoted was separate from the topic. I specifically said it does not technically have an Anti-religion message. More so anti-abuse of religion. Though contrary to your suggestion, the Reapers are gods under the basic definition because they can create universes because they are above the laws of physics. Shepard may be an allegory for Jesus, but the moral of the story is that you fight evil no matter what, even if your enemy is invincible.

Again, would you stand up to an evil god? Like say the Christian one, on judgement day, if it came down to it? Simple question, would you stand up to an evil god? The moral of the story is that you are supposed to fight.

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:33 am

So again to clarify, it is not Anti-Religious and not Anti-God. It is simply against the abuse of religion and the abuse of the concept of god.

For example, if the Christian god existed and it was a morally good being... then it would have to be a god that does not fit the modern interpretations of the bible. The gods of the major religions are in fact evil if you go with what people consider today. So if there is a god, it could be a good god. Just in case anyone is feeling I'm being too Anti-Religious, so there, it's a bit more balanced.

As I said Drewton and Selim summed it up, it's just more complex than that because the Reapers are powerful.

Usually when society deems a god fake, they do so because they believe the being is incapable of the title, usually for power based reasons. This attitude is reflected in the idea that humans "play god" all the time. So it's only fair to say that by this definition the Reapers ARE real gods, because their power is genuine. It's only their immorality that can invalidate the legitimacy of them being gods.

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by dorktainian on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:12 am

OK back to B5 (always a good idea when talking about story)

Talking about creatures vastly more advanced than ourselves, look at the end of the Shadow War. Vorlons and Shadows both arrogantly teach the younger races that they are gods - in order to guide their development and manipulate them.

"Understanding had finally come to the Younger races. For the first time since the cycle of conflict between the Vorlons and Shadows had started, the truth of the First Ones goals and motives had been laid bare to the Younger Races thanks to Sheridans adventure on Z'Ha'Dum. Both the Vorlons and Shadows had stayed behind when the other First Ones had moved beyond the Rim as shepherds and guardians of the Younger Races. Their purpose had been to teach until they were ready to stand on their own, and then to step aside, much as Lorien had done for them so long ago. But over time, these once noble ideals had started to slip away as guidance turned into manipulation, and teaching into indoctrination. Convinced that their answer was the only answer, both the Vorlons and Shadows had spent untold millenia manipulating the Younger races as proxies for the 'great argument', no longer for any benefit of the Younger races, but simply to prove that 'they' had been right all along."(B5 wiki)




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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by BlueLogic on Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:16 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
DoomsdayDevice wrote:Reapers violate the laws of physics?
Yes, it is specifically stated that their technology violates the known laws of physics and EDI confirms it and theorizes on how it's possible and that they might be inter-dimensional. So it's kind of official.
(My emphasis)
That doesn't mean they violate the laws of physics.

IronicParticle wrote:
Drewton wrote:What is your definition of a god?
How does super powerful AI = god?
IronicParticle wrote:The Reapers are real gods if you define a god as a creator of the universe/universes or/and life.
Do you mean aren't? Because the Reapers didn't create the universe.
They are able to though, since they are above the laws of physics. If you are above the laws of physics, just talk to my man Carl Sagan. You can create an apple pie from scratch as he put it, meaning you can create something from nothing. Thus, you could create a universe and control it's laws, etc.
But...above you just stipulated, under questioning, to the fact that it is only the "known" laws of physics that the codex states the Reapers are above. That does not mean they are above the laws of physics.

IronicParticle wrote:
Selim Bradley wrote:Ignoring the anti-religion vide spewing from this thread, they have a word for that. It's called devils.
All you are pointing out is that I am right, that there is an Anti-Religious message. The Reapers are real gods if you define a god as a creator of the universe/universes or/and life.
Yes, but above...you...*sigh*

IronicParticle wrote:...I've never really met a single person who believed in a god and said that if the god was evil, that they'd oppose them. Maybe I've heard like 1 religious person say they would.
Make it two.

IronicParticle wrote:Everyone else tries to avoid the question through cop outs, such as God is not evil, etc.
That's actually disagreeing with your premise rather than, say, a cop out.

IronicParticle wrote:And of course one of the major things about Religion, is it usually downplays mankind. Like we are inherently evil, which in turn is what you are saying is happening.... mankind is the evil god. It's a load of crap, not that it isn't possible but it's always the same shtick. Humanity is not good enough, everything is their fault, yada yada. Boring, and not artistic at all.
Is the truth required to be artistic and exciting?
Margaret Thatcher wrote:Of course it's the same old story. Truth usually is the same old story.
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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:12 pm

BlueLogic wrote:*Snip*
"That doesn't mean they violate the laws of physics."

But the difference is trivial, if they are following unknown laws of physics then they are still above the laws of physics we know... so they could still create a universe.

"Make it two."

Good, right on.

"That's actually disagreeing with your premise rather than, say, a cop out."

What premise? The question is, would they oppose an evil god. I never said only an evil god can exist, the question is simply IF god is evil, would they oppose it. So it is dodging the question and is a cop-out because it's been done by so many people and they've gotten it from indoctrination(Real life kind, not Reaper kind, but that should be obvious).

"Is the truth required to be artistic and exciting?"

It's not the truth, sorry to say but mankind is innocent under any quality morality system. We cannot be blamed for our situation simply by the nature of the universe, victimizers are victims, so on and so forth. It's not truth that mankind is evil, it's the opposite and all this mankind-hating BS is not truthful even in the slightest, it's propaganda.

Is there is part of humanity that may blow us to hell with nukes? Is there a part of humanity that rapes, murders, cheats, etc? Yes but a victimizer is a victim, something has happened that messed them up to result in them doing what they do. Point is, that it's not that we are evil and it's not Humanity's fault. Whereas the "shtick" I am talking about pins it all on us, in a completely incorrect way.


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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:16 pm

If the Reapers violate the laws of known physics, that does not necessarily mean they violate the laws of physics. More than anything it probably means they have better knowledge of the laws of physics and can therefore do things that seem like magic to us.

You are making huge leaps of logic here, by claiming Reapers can create a universe, etc.

They're not above the laws of physics, they just seem to be, because they have a better understanding of these laws than we do.

Any significantly advanced technology will appear to violate the laws of physics, it is simply a lack of knowledge on our part.

Just like a light bulb would be like magic to people of medieval times.

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:42 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:If the Reapers violate the laws of known physics, that does not necessarily mean they violate the laws of physics. More than anything it probably means they have better knowledge of the laws of physics and can therefore do things that seem like magic to us.

You are making huge leaps of logic here, by claiming Reapers can create a universe, etc.

They're not above the laws of physics, they just seem to be, because they have a better understanding of these laws than we do.

Any significantly advanced technology will appear to violate the laws of physics, it is simply a lack of knowledge on our part.

Just like a light bulb would be like magic to people of medieval times.
Actually they fit type Omega-Minus very well. Husks and the like require Type IV-minus technology. Eezo is type VI-Minus, if the Reapers created it. Which I believe the dark energy ending was going to specifically have it to where Reapers made Eezo and I don't see why they'd change that explanation since it makes perfect sense and they have yet to explain where Eezo comes from. If the Reapers are Type VI-Minus, which is not a huge leap. Then manipulating space and time is within their reach and thus they truly are above the laws of physics.

Of course it'd be like a caveman seeing a gun and of course it looks like magic. But scientists already accept the fact that after a certain point technology is identical to miracles. Creating intelligent life, creating planets, reviving people, turning water into wine, bread into fish, walking on water, etc. All of this is within the laws of physics.

But the thing you need to realize is Bioware is clearly aiming for the Omega Point, what with the Reapers being Alpha and Omega and being several singularities above us, etc. The Reapers have reached a point where in their vastly superior intellect they are pretty certain they are gods. They aren't dumb enough to think worship is what makes them gods, they know their power is immense and that it's vastly above our comprehension.

Which is another thing.... things like Time Travel, FTL Travel, practically infinite resources, Immortality, creating life, etc. these things are not above our comprehension in real life, nor are they above our comprehension in the Mass Effect world. What do you think is left to be above our comprehension besides Dimensional Travel, Multiverse Travel, and creating Universes?

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by BlueLogic on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:55 pm

IronicParticle wrote:
BlueLogic wrote:That's actually disagreeing with your premise rather than, say, a cop out.
What premise? The question is, would they oppose an evil god. I never said only an evil god can exist, the question is simply IF god is evil, would they oppose it. So it is dodging the question and is a cop-out because it's been done by so many people and they've gotten it from indoctrination(Real life kind, not Reaper kind, but that should be obvious).
Ah, I see. If asked, "would you oppose God if you came realize he is evil", one answered, "God is not evil", then that would be a cop out. Yes, I agree, and I was incorrect.

IronicParticle wrote:
BlueLogic wrote:Is the truth required to be artistic and exciting?
It's not the truth, sorry to say but mankind is innocent under any quality morality system. We cannot be blamed for our situation simply by the nature of the universe, victimizers are victims, so on and so forth. It's not truth that mankind is evil, it's the opposite and all this mankind-hating BS is not truthful even in the slightest, it's propaganda.

Is there is part of humanity that may blow us to hell with nukes? Is there a part of humanity that rapes, murders, cheats, etc? Yes but a victimizer is a victim, something has happened that messed them up to result in them doing what they do. Point is, that it's not that we are evil and it's not Humanity's fault. Whereas the "shtick" I am talking about pins it all on us, in a completely incorrect way.
Of course, it is not "Humanity's" fault. What is "Humanity" but a collection of every individual that exists or has existed? The fault and responsibility for evil done rests solely with the individual who does it. Is it an excuse for rape to have been raped in the past? No. Of course it isn't. Then it is the rapist who is guilty and stained by evil, regardless of whether they were once called "victim". I don't care to make the argument for the inherent tendency toward evil and selfishness in mankind here, and I wouldn't have responded at all to this point, but the suggestion that a victimizer is somehow absolved in whatever degree by prior victimization demanded a response.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:If the Reapers violate the laws of known physics, that does not necessarily mean they violate the laws of physics. More than anything it probably means they have better knowledge of the laws of physics and can therefore do things that seem like magic to us.

You are making huge leaps of logic here, by claiming Reapers can create a universe, etc.

They're not above the laws of physics, they just seem to be, because they have a better understanding of these laws than we do.

Any significantly advanced technology will appear to violate the laws of physics, it is simply a lack of knowledge on our part.

Just like a light bulb would be like magic to people of medieval times.
I couldn't have said it better.

EDIT:
IronicParticle wrote:
DoomsdayDevice wrote:*snip*
...Then manipulating space and time is within their reach and thus they truly are above the laws of physics.
...I was going to respond to this, but then I read the next paragraph.

IronicParticle wrote:Of course it'd be like a caveman seeing a gun and of course it looks like magic. But scientists already accept the fact that after a certain point technology is identical to miracles. Creating intelligent life, creating planets, reviving people, turning water into wine, bread into fish, walking on water, etc. All of this is within the laws of physics.
So...resurrecting people is within the laws of physics? Perhaps so, but not within the "known" laws of physics. None of the things you mentioned are within the "known" laws of physics.

Also, I don't know of anyone who has claimed to have ever turned bread into fish. ;)

IronicParticle wrote:But the thing you need to realize is Bioware is clearly aiming for the Omega Point...
Supposition.
IronicParticle wrote:...The Reapers have reached a point where in their vastly superior intellect they are pretty certain they are gods.
That does not make them gods.
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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:58 pm

BlueLogic wrote:*snip*
I look at things from the viewpoint that people like Sam Harris does.

If you found out that a person had a brain tumor and it was the cause of their actions... you would consider them a victim because they couldn't help it. The thing is, free will is debatable and the more important thing to realize is that a victimizer may not have the ability to NOT do what they did. It was not really their choice because it was dictated by things that are out of the persons control. for instance it depends on personality, mental health, genetics, etc.

The point is, they wanted to do it and to them they felt they had enough of a reason to do it. Yet they didn't choose to have such a desire, or to feel the way they do about it. They couldn't choose to not do it, because they are the type of person who does it. It's like saying "if I was you"... if you were that murderer, you'd have murdered. If you were that rapist, you'd have raped. You wouldn't do anything different because you'd be them, you'd be the person who does that thing. The only way they could've not done the action, was to be a different person.

They should still be locked up for the safety of society but I feel we need to stop this idea of hating them. Hate breeds nothing but despair and seems out of place.

Also if you'd read my topic in General Randomness about world suffering, I've been that type of person. Luckily it was only temporary, but I know what it feels like to be a psychopath. You can't help that you are apathetic, that is what a psychopath is and they cannot help it. They cannot help how they feel, you can treat them like they are evil and they know better but the fact is they don't. They are broken, they didn't break themselves, someone or something did it to them. When someone murders, there is motivation and desire behind it. Choosing to not desire it is like, choosing your sexuality or your favorite flavor. You don't choose desire and motivation, they are predetermined by uncontrollable factors.

"Also, I don't know of anyone who has claimed to have ever turned bread into fish. ;)"

Nanotechnology.

"That does not make them gods."

It does mean they must have a good reason for thinking so... like say, being able to create a universe. Technically they just need to be able to travel between universes and as I asked, what about them is above our comprehension when all that is left is traveling through dimensions and the Multiverse.

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by BlueLogic on Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:23 pm

I don't know what to make of the injustice foisted on people who are mentally handicapped. I agree, depending on the circumstances of their condition, it may well not be their fault. Having reason to believe in a just and omniscient God gives me comfort in that they will not be judged unfairly. It also gives me pause because I know I cannot fool Him.

IronicParticle wrote:
BlueLogic wrote:That does not make them gods.

It does mean they must have a good reason for thinking so... like say, being able to create a universe. Technically they just need to be able to travel between universes and as I asked, what about them is above our comprehension when all that is left is traveling through dimensions and the Multiverse.

There's nothing to suggest they "must" have a "good" reason for thinking themselves to be like gods. They could be simply contrasting themselves against those species they conquer. Do I have good reason to think myself like a god because I can crush an insect with fleeting effort? Beyond that, they could be simply programmed to think it by the Intelligence. Or, my personal favorite option: they could be lying to us.
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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:26 pm

BlueLogic wrote:I don't know what to make of the injustice foisted on people who are mentally handicapped. I agree, depending on the circumstances of their condition, it may well not be their fault. Having reason to believe in a just and omniscient God gives me comfort in that they will not be judged unfairly. It also gives me pause because I know I cannot fool Him.

IronicParticle wrote:
BlueLogic wrote:That does not make them gods.

It does mean they must have a good reason for thinking so... like say, being able to create a universe. Technically they just need to be able to travel between universes and as I asked, what about them is above our comprehension when all that is left is traveling through dimensions and the Multiverse.

There's nothing to suggest they "must" have a "good" reason for thinking themselves to be like gods. They could be simply contrasting themselves against those species they conquer. Do I have good reason to think myself like a god because I can crush an insect with fleeting effort? Beyond that, they could be simply programmed to think it by the Intelligence. Or, my personal favorite option: they could be lying to us.
Well I wasn't trying to be Mr. Negative.... was just trying to say it gets tiring hearing about how evil mankind is. I don't consider it true at all, if nobody suffered I'm fairly positive there'd be no evil among humanity. Hence why I don't believe that if we ever reached the Omega Point that we'd be evil, because suffering by that point would've been non-existent eons before that.

As for fooling god, the vast majority of Atheists are not trying to fool anyone. If god exists and they are good, then we will find out eventually. Hence why it doesn't make sense for people to try and convert us, because the very reason we don't believe is that we need evidence which it shouldn't hurt anything if we wait for the evidence. The problem is all the people wanting us to believe NOW, not later.

For the second paragraph, the problem is the Reapers are vastly above our comprehension. So actually it will anoy me to no end if Bioware dumbs the Reapers down even more. A Reaper suffering from Hubris, is as absurd as a god having jelousy and anger. You know, such lowly weaknesses. At least make them formidable enemies.

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by BlueLogic on Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:11 pm

IronicParticle wrote:Well I wasn't trying to be Mr. Negative.... was just trying to say it gets tiring hearing about how evil mankind is. I don't consider it true at all, if nobody suffered I'm fairly positive there'd be no evil among humanity.
Chicken and egg. Are people made to be evil because they suffer, or do people suffer because others are evil? The point of free will is to rise above the cause and effect cycle of injustices committed against one another. That's my take at least.

IronicParticle wrote:As for fooling god, the vast majority of Atheists are not trying to fool anyone.
I was talking about me personally. I can't fool God into thinking my intentions were pure when they were not. Rather sobering.

IronicParticle wrote:If god exists and they are good, then we will find out eventually. Hence why it doesn't make sense for people to try and convert us, because the very reason we don't believe is that we need evidence which it shouldn't hurt anything if we wait for the evidence. The problem is all the people wanting us to believe NOW, not later.
At the risk of sounding preachy, no one is so good as to earn by their own virtues what God sent Jesus to buy for us. So it does make sense.

IronicParticle wrote:For the second paragraph, the problem is the Reapers are vastly above our comprehension. So actually it will anoy me to no end if Bioware dumbs the Reapers down even more. A Reaper suffering from Hubris, is as absurd as a god having jelousy and anger. You know, such lowly weaknesses. At least make them formidable enemies.
Why should the powerful not feel emotions? What degree of power could you achieve that would make you apathetic to the suffering of a child? Besides, hubris is a natural result of great power. What a small misstep of logic it is to assume since nothing has ever defeated us, nothing ever will.
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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:42 pm

IronicParticle wrote:"Also, I don't know of anyone who has claimed to have ever turned bread into fish. ;)"

Nanotechnology.

"That does not make them gods."
Umm...but to make fish, you'd need protein and bread doesn't have any. You can add protein, but that is no longer "turning bread into fish" because you're adding something that wasn't there to begin with.
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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by DSharrah on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:11 pm

Bread into fish, huh? Behold my godly powers...



So does this make me a god?

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by BlueLogic on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:15 pm

Bow down!!

LOL

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Hrothdane on Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:34 pm

I think the writers were going for something more like this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SufficientlyAdvancedAlien

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:47 pm

To add some humor to this thread, check these out. All the "immoral things" that happens isn't God's fault, but his boss Craig's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HUBOD7Qt74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIXMQLpJiRk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV9Onxd2gho
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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:13 am

Selim Bradley wrote:To add some humor to this thread, check these out. All the "immoral things" that happens isn't God's fault, but his boss Craig's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HUBOD7Qt74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIXMQLpJiRk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV9Onxd2gho
Funny videos, I've saw this channel before for a different type of video and forgot to subscribe.

Ironically I've heard something more serious like this turned into an argument to explain why evil exists. But the downfall is the fact that this kind of god, clearly is not deserving of worship.

Anyways thanks for the laughs.

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Re: Evil Gods?

Post by Terramine on Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:18 am

Hrothdane wrote:I think the writers were going for something more like this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SufficientlyAdvancedAlien
Well technically yes, but Bioware was clearly aiming for making a game that could be considered art. Which I caught onto when I played ME1, and saw it succeeding in ME2. As well, it's kept going up until the "ending" where Bioware might actually screw the entire picture up.

The first time you hear sovereign talk, you know Bioware was aiming for something much more than that trope you mentioned. In fact this is inevitably true because ME is influenced by Lovecraftian Sci-Fi.

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Re: Evil Gods?

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