Refuse in the place of Destroy

Page 11 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by vlad78 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:59 am

Terramine wrote:Also did anyone actually listen to this?:



Sounds like Shepard is indoctrinated to me. And this is evidence from Mass Effect 4 itself.

Video's description: "The lyrics are about people being forced to fight for the amusement of higher beings. Think gladiator. The sing is about the primal part in all of us that takes over that fights for survival. You know its wrong, but if you know if it's either you or the other guy, something deep down will fight for your survival. The moment of death can seem like an eternity (or so we've heard haha) so "Beautiful still behind your eyes" represents that last moment of life that fades from your opponent's eyes."

And you also missed something, 'The lyrics are about people being forced to fight for the amusement of higher beings.'  the reapers do not fight amongst themselves as far as we know.
It means there's a third side or at least two and we 're not one of them.
avatar
vlad78
Nemesis

Posts : 297
Join date : 2014-05-04
Location : Normandy real crash site

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:00 am

Terramine wrote:
You literrally just avoided everything i said without addressing it. Again, it makes less sense that Shepard can break out. It's impossible in lore. In fact, hey Raistlin Majere... too strong eh? How's that workin out for you when it was established in lore, that there is no such thing? Maybe Shepard was too strong for that specific thing, but he cannot be too strong for indoctrination itself. Shepard cannot break out, that has been established as impossible.
Well actually, both Saren and The Illusive Man broke out of a fully indoctrinated state. The problem is by the time they do, their bodies are so full of Reaper tech that their mind isn't really needed by the Reapers to control their functions, hence them using what little control they have over their bodies to kill themselves.
avatar
Hanako Ikezawa
The Thorian

Posts : 3094
Join date : 2013-01-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by Raistlin Majere on Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:24 am

Terramine wrote:
You literrally just avoided everything i said without addressing it. Again, it makes less sense that Shepard can break out. It's impossible in lore. In fact, hey Raistlin Majere... too strong eh? How's that workin out for you when it was established in lore, that there is no such thing? Maybe Shepard was too strong for that specific thing, but he cannot be too strong for indoctrination itself. Shepard cannot break out, that has been established as impossible.

There is a difference between no precedence and impossibility. And Shepard truly breaking free would not exactly be the first time he does something described as impossible...though in this case it is not even impossible as people have broken free of Indoctrination to various degrees of success, as pointed out. The Rachni Queen says she hears the Reaper voices and Shiala, the Asari Saren left with the Thorian keeps her Indoctrination in check through the connection the Thorian left her with the rest of the colonists. Saren and Benezia also broke free for periods in their own ways.

So it is possible to break free, it is just the method and how long it lasts that varies.

_________________
Heroes get Remembered, but Legends never Die.
avatar
Raistlin Majere
N7

Posts : 1089
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : Denmark

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by vlad78 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:30 am

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
Terramine wrote:
You literrally just avoided everything i said without addressing it. Again, it makes less sense that Shepard can break out. It's impossible in lore. In fact, hey Raistlin Majere... too strong eh? How's that workin out for you when it was established in lore, that there is no such thing? Maybe Shepard was too strong for that specific thing, but he cannot be too strong for indoctrination itself. Shepard cannot break out, that has been established as impossible.
Well actually, both Saren and The Illusive Man broke out of a fully indoctrinated state. The problem is by the time they do, their bodies are so full of Reaper tech that their mind isn't really needed by the Reapers to control their functions, hence them using what little control they have over their bodies to kill themselves.

They did so only when Shep was there.
avatar
vlad78
Nemesis

Posts : 297
Join date : 2014-05-04
Location : Normandy real crash site

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by vlad78 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:32 am

Raistlin Majere wrote:
Terramine wrote:
You literrally just avoided everything i said without addressing it. Again, it makes less sense that Shepard can break out. It's impossible in lore. In fact, hey Raistlin Majere... too strong eh? How's that workin out for you when it was established in lore, that there is no such thing? Maybe Shepard was too strong for that specific thing, but he cannot be too strong for indoctrination itself. Shepard cannot break out, that has been established as impossible.

There is a difference between no precedence and impossibility. And Shepard truly breaking free would not exactly be the first time he does something described as impossible...though in this case it is not even impossible as people have broken free of Indoctrination to various degrees of success, as pointed out. The Rachni Queen says she hears the Reaper voices and Shiala, the Asari Saren left with the Thorian keeps her Indoctrination in check through the connection the Thorian left her with the rest of the colonists. Saren and Benezia also broke free for periods in their own ways.

So it is possible to break free, it is just the method and how long it lasts that varies.

We have never heard of people breaking free of reaper indoctrination by themselves afaik.

2 exceptions,

1 - those connected to another neural network like shiala and the rachni queens (Rachni which were controlled by Levi btw)

2 - When shep was there
avatar
vlad78
Nemesis

Posts : 297
Join date : 2014-05-04
Location : Normandy real crash site

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by Raistlin Majere on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:17 am

vlad78 wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:
Terramine wrote:
You literrally just avoided everything i said without addressing it. Again, it makes less sense that Shepard can break out. It's impossible in lore. In fact, hey Raistlin Majere... too strong eh? How's that workin out for you when it was established in lore, that there is no such thing? Maybe Shepard was too strong for that specific thing, but he cannot be too strong for indoctrination itself. Shepard cannot break out, that has been established as impossible.

There is a difference between no precedence and impossibility. And Shepard truly breaking free would not exactly be the first time he does something described as impossible...though in this case it is not even impossible as people have broken free of Indoctrination to various degrees of success, as pointed out. The Rachni Queen says she hears the Reaper voices and Shiala, the Asari Saren left with the Thorian keeps her Indoctrination in check through the connection the Thorian left her with the rest of the colonists. Saren and Benezia also broke free for periods in their own ways.

So it is possible to break free, it is just the method and how long it lasts that varies.

We have never heard of people breaking free of reaper indoctrination by themselves afaik.

2 exceptions,

1 - those connected to another neural network like shiala and the rachni queens (Rachni which were controlled by Levi btw)

2 - When shep was there

True enough, but if there is anyone who could potentially do it in the galaxy, would it not be Commander "Make a living out of doing the impossible," Shepard, whether Renegade or Paragon?

And the neural network part is one of my ideas for what "Major impact" the Rachni Queens survival could have in the ending. A kind of fall back if the player fuck up his choice where the Rachni Queen links with Shepard's mind (as we know she can to at least some extent) and gives a second chance (with possibly other drawbacks later or the Rachni Queen dying to make it possible).


Last edited by Raistlin Majere on Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Heroes get Remembered, but Legends never Die.
avatar
Raistlin Majere
N7

Posts : 1089
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : Denmark

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by smash016 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:46 am

Interesting idea. I like it.

I'm convinced there's something more / there was supposed to be more to the rachni anyway. Just looking at how they're presented to us it feels the writers were holding back. A bit like with TIM and the SB.

_________________
"Refuse to believe life ends here. Too wasteful. Have more to offer. Mistakes to fix. Cannot end here. Could do so much more."
avatar
smash016
Scion

Posts : 642
Join date : 2014-03-25
Location : Everywhere at Once

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by Terramine on Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:25 pm

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
Terramine wrote:
You literrally just avoided everything i said without addressing it. Again, it makes less sense that Shepard can break out. It's impossible in lore. In fact, hey Raistlin Majere... too strong eh? How's that workin out for you when it was established in lore, that there is no such thing? Maybe Shepard was too strong for that specific thing, but he cannot be too strong for indoctrination itself. Shepard cannot break out, that has been established as impossible.
Well actually, both Saren and The Illusive Man broke out of a fully indoctrinated state. The problem is by the time they do, their bodies are so full of Reaper tech that their mind isn't really needed by the Reapers to control their functions, hence them using what little control they have over their bodies to kill themselves.
Benezia wasn't chocked full of Reaper tech. She died a slow death from the wounds of battling Shep and squad. Why? Because she would never be the same again. She will forever be a slave of the Reapers. All the Reaper tech does, is maintain cognitive quality. Just because your mind won't deteriorate, doesn't mean you can be free. They were nowhere close to breaking free completely.

vlad78 wrote:And you also missed something, 'The lyrics are about people being forced to fight for the amusement of higher beings.'  the reapers do not fight amongst themselves as far as we know.
It means there's a third side or at least two and we 're not one of them.

What the hell are you talking about. The higher being ARE the Reapers. The Reapers are the higher beings. It sounds like Shepard had to fight someone under indoctrination? Or something like that.

jojon2se wrote:Terramine, I thought you were done arguing? This latest explosion of, hmm... "forum-hogging" posts do not help anybody -- least of all yourself.

You'd spare yourself lots of grief, if you were to be content with there only being one person here who share many of your assessments of the Mass Effect situation, and refrain from poking sleeping bears. Do not try to ram your opinions down their throats, and they'll keep their own ramming non-personal.
Everybody started talking about Destroy, so I started talking about Refuse. Y'all stop talking about Destroy, I'll stop talking about Refuse. Note how i didn't pop up talking about this UNTIL Y'all did it first. don't be hypocrites.

I stopped fighting before because y'all stopped talking about destroy. I'll stop if y'all stop. I didn't start it.

Raistlin Majere wrote:Terramine you seem to have missed the fact that I do not believe the TIM / Anderson / Shepard confrontation to be real in any shape or form. To me it is all in Shepard's mind. This Anderson being indoctrinated or not means jack shit, cause Shepard does not think he is Indoctrinated (and I would personally be cautious declaring any certainty on it. Sure he has his weird moments, but just about everyone, Shepard included, are acting weird to some degree in those final parts of the game).

While Shepard has many close friends in his crew, Anderson is the closest to a mentor figure and he was close Harbingers beam knocks Shepard over, thus the reason he appears there. TIM and Anderson to me are not but projections, TIM is the indoctrination fighting for control, Anderson is the part or a part of Shepard's mind, possibly his subconsciousness, resisting that.

When the scene is over the direct part of the Indoctrination, the force full part is dead, but with died part of Shepard's own resolve in the form of Anderson. It forces the Reapers to use subterfuge in the form of the choices, but Shepard is also not quite there anymore either being heavily mentally weakened.

There is certainly plenty of weird things in the Tim / Anderson scene. The fact that Anderson supposedly comes up after Shepard despite no sign of him as we push to the beam, him coming up somewhere else for some reason. TIM suddenly gained fucking magically precise biotics as it is not Indoctrination since it is not affecting their brain, only their body. And the strange wound Shepard has after Anderson "dies."

I'm basing the assertion that Anderson is indoctrinated from the sheer fact that he's been on planet earth this whole time, in indoctrination central. He's surrounded by shitloads of actual reapers, he only needs to be in distance of hearing the Reaper horns. But he's also surrounded by reaper minions who not only emit their own indoctrination signals, they amplify any signals near them. Basically, earth becomes this mega indoctrination central where you wouldn't even last a week without getting indoctrinated. Yet how long has Anderson been there? You COULD argue that Shepard is the protagonist and can take a literal shit on Harbinger's laser hole for all I care, but Anderson doesn't have that perk. He doesn't don the protagonist badge that gives him passage into impossible land. Not to mention Anderson is a how old man, with loads of regrets and compromised mental stability?

vlad78 wrote:

They did so only when Shep was there.
In case it wasn't clear, Vlad is demersel or whatever that corrupt Admin's name was. There's no way he knows of ideas like Shepard having his own indoctrination ability, unless he's been in this thread for a long time and has been interacting with other people. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

@Everybody Y'all still haven't accounted for the fact that, either Shepard is or he isn't indoctrinated. It would require 2 different games to have both.

_________________
Life is chaos itself. Organisms appear and evolve as a mere byproduct of thermodynamics.

Welcome to a universe made up of many universes, enter prisoner 092993 of a tiny blue dot.

We are the Masters of the descended world!
avatar
Terramine
Destroyer

Posts : 2466
Join date : 2013-01-09
Age : 23
Location : USA

http://Tumblr Blog: terraminelightvoid.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by vlad78 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:27 pm

Terramine wrote:
vlad78 wrote:And you also missed something, 'The lyrics are about people being forced to fight for the amusement of higher beings.'  the reapers do not fight amongst themselves as far as we know.
It means there's a third side or at least two and we 're not one of them.

What the hell are you talking about. The higher being ARE the Reapers. The Reapers are the higher beings. It sounds like Shepard had to fight someone under indoctrination? Or something like that.


I'm talking about the beings everybody think were created only for a post ending dlc sake.
Leviathans.

Galactic contest between those 2 godlike entities.


Last edited by vlad78 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
vlad78
Nemesis

Posts : 297
Join date : 2014-05-04
Location : Normandy real crash site

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by dorktainian on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:44 pm

FWIW....(just jumping into the convo here) imo Shepard is not Indoctrinated if he chooses wisely. He is indoctrinated if he picks Blue or Green.

If he wakes up he breaks the game and wins.

_________________
avatar
dorktainian
Catalyst

Posts : 3499
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 48

Back to top Go down

here we go again

Post by vlad78 on Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:48 pm

dorktainian wrote:FWIW....(just jumping into the convo here)  imo Shepard is not Indoctrinated if he chooses wisely.  He is indoctrinated if he picks Blue or Green.

If he wakes up he breaks the game and wins.

Or at least gives hopes.
avatar
vlad78
Nemesis

Posts : 297
Join date : 2014-05-04
Location : Normandy real crash site

Back to top Go down

Re: Refuse in the place of Destroy

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 11 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum