Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

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Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:35 pm

I've seen polls about the endings, I've seen polls about the EC, but I haven't seen any polls about ME3. So, here we go, is ME3 good? I'm not talking about the endings, I'm talking about the whole game. Do you like ME3? No, "If the endings are IT," no, "If the endings are literal," do you like ME3 as a game? That's my question. It's a simple question, really, one that I'd very much like an answer to. I want to know just what the general mood here is about ME3 as a whole.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:37 pm

Mass Effect 3 is an amazing game.
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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by DSharrah on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:40 pm

I say you need to add another option, "Incomplete". While I enjoy the game, I think that if you believe in IT its more than fair to give the game that "grade".

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by BansheeOwnage on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:42 pm

DSharrah wrote:I say you need to add another option, "Incomplete". While I enjoy the game, I think that if you believe in IT its more than fair to give the game that "grade".
There is something to be said for this. It's almost like the end of ME3 and ME3 are just different things to me. In some ways. I mean, I think it's a great and incomplete game.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Restrider on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:48 pm

BansheeOwnage wrote:
DSharrah wrote:I say you need to add another option, "Incomplete". While I enjoy the game, I think that if you believe in IT its more than fair to give the game that "grade".
There is something to be said for this. It's almost like the end of ME3 and ME3 are just different things to me. In some ways. I mean, I think it's a great and incomplete game.

That's also the reason why many people replay ME3 - and mostly enjoy it - but when it is going to Cronos Station hesitate and have to force themselves to finish the game or they simply stop playing at all.
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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by dorktainian on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:05 pm

broken questing system means i vote no. it's a bloody shame that.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by BansheeOwnage on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:06 pm

Restrider wrote:
BansheeOwnage wrote:
DSharrah wrote:I say you need to add another option, "Incomplete". While I enjoy the game, I think that if you believe in IT its more than fair to give the game that "grade".
There is something to be said for this. It's almost like the end of ME3 and ME3 are just different things to me. In some ways. I mean, I think it's a great and incomplete game.

That's also the reason why many people replay ME3 - and mostly enjoy it - but when it is going to Cronos Station hesitate and have to force themselves to finish the game or they simply stop playing at all.
Yeah... and that should never happen with a game. In fact, the opposite is common. A lot of people love replaying the climaxes of games. I mean, I know Blur has played the Suicide Mission more that any other part of ME. And I was expecting ME3 to be just as epic on a larger scale. I mean who wasn't? If your fans are still wanting a way out, whether it be not playing the end, using MEHEM, using Citadel, or wanting an IT reveal, you're not in the clear yet. Not even close.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:13 pm

Restrider wrote:
BansheeOwnage wrote:
DSharrah wrote:I say you need to add another option, "Incomplete". While I enjoy the game, I think that if you believe in IT its more than fair to give the game that "grade".
There is something to be said for this. It's almost like the end of ME3 and ME3 are just different things to me. In some ways. I mean, I think it's a great and incomplete game.

That's also the reason why many people replay ME3 - and mostly enjoy it - but when it is going to Cronos Station hesitate and have to force themselves to finish the game or they simply stop playing at all.

You know, it's getting to the point where I've stopped caring about the ending, really. I mean, I like Destroy. Not in a lesser of four evils sort of way, but in a genuinely liking it sort of way. If we could just blow the Reapers to Hell without there being some consequences, it wouldn't be Mass Effect. Victory through sacrifice. Ruthless calculus. Also, it wouldn't make sense since every synthetic in the galaxy is based on Reaper code at this point. Of course, that brings up the same issues that Control and Synthesis had already (what with them being so specific and so broad in what they target respectively), but that's another story. The key here is that Destroy purges the galaxy of EVERYTHING Reaper. It gives us a chance to start anew, without their specter looming over us. Are the sacrifices nice? No, they've not. I regret what I have to do to stop the Reapers, but the alternatives are things I could never choose in good conscience.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Raistlin Majere on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:39 pm

Mass Effect 3 made me cry more times than I remember crying over a videogame. Mordin's death I cried so much and it repeated with Thane and Legion.

Now a lot of this came from these characters and our interaction from ME2, but I feel Mass Effect 3 followed up on (most) of the interactions beautifully and I can truly say i have never cared so much for characters as those I learned across the 3 games of the Mass Effect series.

On that alone I give it pass.

Other good things I can mention though is the epic set pieces and battles, like Kalros against the Destroyer, the amazing start of the battle to take back Earth, the sense of loss and urgency running through the game (minus Citadel). You get a good feel for the desperation of the situation even if certain elements could be handled better (*cough* Crucible *cough*)

And the multiplayer was surprisingly deep and addictive with a absolutely staggering amount of classes, races and weapons by the end.

So yes, pass.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Ghost Of Kesak11 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:42 pm

I have to say no for me. The current ending decreases my opinion by a lot but also for the auto conversations, journal system and a few other things.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:42 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:Mass Effect 3 made me cry more times than I remember crying over a videogame. Mordin's death I cried so much and it repeated with Thane and Legion.

Now a lot of this came from these characters and our interaction from ME2, but I feel Mass Effect 3 followed up on (most) of the interactions beautifully and I can truly say i have never cared so much for characters as those I learned across the 3 games of the Mass Effect series.

On that alone I give it pass.

Other good things I can mention though is the epic set pieces and battles, like Kalros against the Destroyer, the amazing start of the battle to take back Earth, the sense of loss and urgency running through the game (minus Citadel). You get a good feel for the desperation of the situation even if certain elements could be handled better (*cough* Crucible *cough*)

And the multiplayer was surprisingly deep and addictive with a absolutely staggering amount of classes, races and weapons by the end.

So yes, pass.

I agree with you 100%. These are all the things I love about Mass Effect 3, and these are the things that make me want to see ME:Next. I really do think ME:Next will be good, despite what many think. If it's a sequel, and if it does things right, I'll buy it. Maybe I'm just setting myself up for disappointment again, but I don't care. In fact, the simple fact that I'm aware it could go horribly wrong means I won't be caught off guard if it does.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:43 pm

Kesak11 wrote:I have to say no for me. The current ending decreases my opinion by a lot but also for the auto conversations, journal system and a few other things.

The journal system sucked, I don't deny that. However, the auto conversations really didn't bother me. Most RPGs do that anymore.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Argolas on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:45 pm

Uncertain. Ending as it is ruins the whole franchise. Only IT can save it.
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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:46 pm

Argolas wrote:Uncertain. Ending as it is ruins the whole franchise. Only IT can save it.

I really don't see how the ending ruins the whole franchise...

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Argolas on Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:53 pm

Dwaling wrote:
Argolas wrote:Uncertain. Ending as it is ruins the whole franchise. Only IT can save it.

I really don't see how the ending ruins the whole franchise...

Just how I feel about it. It appears many others do as well. I have heard many people say something like "I wanted to replay the game so often but after seeing the ME3 ending I don't want to play any Mass Effect game at all anymore."

Here's a copypaste from what I consider one of the main reasons (wrote that on BSN a few days ago):

Fiction does not have to play by real-world rules. Good fictional universes make up their own rules- but keep them consistent. Eternal consistency facilitates suspension of disbelief.
While we experience the story, we are ready to believe in Element Zero, FTL travel and space magic (biotics). Why do we believe in that weird stuff? Not because it's fiction and we are ready to believe anything in fiction. It is because Mass Effect established the existence of eezo as a rule at the very beginning of the franchise, then explained the mass effect that makes eezo special, what it is and what you logically can do with that. A secondary belief is established- we learn what you can and can't do in the MEU. You can travel faster than light using eezo. You can manipulate your environment with your mind if you are a biotic. You can make weapon, armor and even toothbrushes that use the mass effect. However, you can't throw yourself into a beam of light to disintegrate and thus (???) alter all life in the galaxy (?????) so it will no longer be hostile to each other (OMG RLY?). This can neither be explained by real-world nor by Mass Effect rules, it has nothing to do with actual science or eezo.

Once these rules that we learned about and accepted so long ago are broken that drastically without explanation, everything changes. Suddenly, the Mass Effect universe is not a believable alternate reality that follows fictional but consistent rules anymore. Suddenly, the Mass Effect universe is some weird place where anything can happen at any time for no reason, and that's something we can't believe in. That breaks everything. It breaks our immersion into the story. It breaks our secondary belief in the universe. It creates disbelief that we can't simply suspend.

That retrospectively kills the whole franchise because all those rules and consistencies that defined the universe suddenly have no meaning anymore. Anything can happen at any time for no reason. The universe we came to love is broken by that.
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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Charlie Sheen on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:03 pm

The poll options are way too limiting.

I like ME3 but think I don't think it's a "pass".

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Raistlin Majere on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:04 pm

Dwaling wrote:
Argolas wrote:Uncertain. Ending as it is ruins the whole franchise. Only IT can save it.

I really don't see how the ending ruins the whole franchise...

Destroy could work, it is a huge deus ex machina (or diabolous ex machina :devil:? ), but then again the Crucible was introduced as such. However advertising Control or Synthesis as anything good is to go against everything we had learned in the games.

"So the Illusive Man was right after all" is all you need to hear to realize just how stupid the premise of Control is. They are literally telling us that TIM, the guy who has murdered and/or tried to control countless humans and other aliens was right all along, that his methods were acceptable, they are telling us the villain was right!

And Synthesis...I don't have to start do I?

Anything, any follow up, any quote which places either of Control of Synthesis in a positive light is a betrayal of the themes established across those three games.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by BansheeOwnage on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:06 pm

Oh, Dwailing I just noticed the title. Thanks for the nod Rofl

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:13 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:
Dwaling wrote:
Argolas wrote:Uncertain. Ending as it is ruins the whole franchise. Only IT can save it.

I really don't see how the ending ruins the whole franchise...

Destroy could work, it is a huge deus ex machina (or diabolous ex machina :devil:? ), but then again the Crucible was introduced as such. However advertising Control or Synthesis as anything good is to go against everything we had learned in the games.

"So the Illusive Man was right after all" is all you need to hear to realize just how stupid the premise of Control is. They are literally telling us that TIM, the guy who has murdered and/or tried to control countless humans and other aliens was right all along, that his methods were acceptable, they are telling us the villain was right!

And Synthesis...I don't have to start do I?

Anything, any follow up, any quote which places either of Control of Synthesis in a positive light is a betrayal of the themes established across those three games.

We don't know about BioWare's intentions regarding Control and Synthesis yet. Until we see the sequel, we can't know one way or the other exactly what they intend to do with them.

Edit: I will just say that if Javik is intended to be a BioWare avatar, however, then that makes a few things MUCH more clear.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:16 pm

BansheeOwnage wrote:Oh, Dwailing I just noticed the title. Thanks for the nod Rofl

That's what I was doing with the title. The poll itself has a slightly different purpose, but I figured I would do a shout out to you for the title of the thread.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by BansheeOwnage on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:20 pm

Dwaling wrote:
BansheeOwnage wrote:Oh, Dwailing I just noticed the title. Thanks for the nod Rofl

That's what I was doing with the title. The poll itself has a slightly different purpose, but I figured I would do a shout out to you for the title of the thread.
Thanks. Sideways

On topic: I don't think this is such a black and white issue. TIM I mean, sure, the vast majority of the game was awesome. But the effect of the ending was retroactive (even across the other 2 games) and long lasting. The end indirectly makes the rest of the game, even the trilogy, suffer. And more importantly, it makes the fans suffer.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Raistlin Majere on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:22 pm

Dwaling wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:
Dwaling wrote:
Argolas wrote:Uncertain. Ending as it is ruins the whole franchise. Only IT can save it.

I really don't see how the ending ruins the whole franchise...

Destroy could work, it is a huge deus ex machina (or diabolous ex machina :devil:? ), but then again the Crucible was introduced as such. However advertising Control or Synthesis as anything good is to go against everything we had learned in the games.

"So the Illusive Man was right after all" is all you need to hear to realize just how stupid the premise of Control is. They are literally telling us that TIM, the guy who has murdered and/or tried to control countless humans and other aliens was right all along, that his methods were acceptable, they are telling us the villain was right!

And Synthesis...I don't have to start do I?

Anything, any follow up, any quote which places either of Control of Synthesis in a positive light is a betrayal of the themes established across those three games.

We don't know about BioWare's intentions regarding Control and Synthesis yet. Until we see the sequel, we can't know one way or the other exactly what they intend to do with them.

Edit: I will just say that if Javik is intended to be a BioWare avatar, however, then that makes a few things MUCH more clear.

Off course, but i am just saying that continuing this franchise on Control or Synthesis in a positive manner would be shooting the established themes with a M-300 Claymore at point blank.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:22 pm

I have to be honest, I love the game, it's probably my favourite of the three, despite certain shortcomings.

I don't have this aversion to the endings that others have. I don't have a problem at all playing through Cronos and London.

In fact, and this is probably blasphemy to many people here, but London is my favourite part of the game. I know it's in many ways a let down for people because it's no suicide mission, it lacks music, etcetera, but I love it for what it is.

I think the fact that there is almost no music is actually an awesome design choice.

It's all just so grim-dark, but here's the thing: I love grim-dark. I'm a total sucker for it.

The darker things are, the brighter the light shines when it finally does.

(Example, having seen the events in Revenge of the Sith really added more emotion to Darth Vader's final redemption in Return of the Jedi for me.)

I love that there's no music, it's in many ways more immersive. The constant sirens going off in the background, the sounds of the Reapers and Reaper horns blaring in the background, knowing you're walking in London, it's just so incredibly immersive. It really adds to this dark feeling of despair it creates.

The first time playing the game (actually every playthrough so far, excluding the one where I played Citadel - because that totally broke that feeling) there was this huge build-up of despair, and a general uneasy feeling of "How is this story ever going to end well?"

I still find it surreal. The Crucible never managed to inspire much confidence or hope in me, not even on the first playthrough.

Not that I thought that it was fishy on my first playthrough though. I expected the actual purpose of the Crucible to be something that would be a huge plot twist. I thought the twist was going to be that it wasn't actually a weapon, but something else. It didn't actually occur to me that it could be a trap, I really should have noticed that.

I just thought that it seemed like such a huge macguffin, but I couldn't actually believe that Bioware would actually go for a magical 'Reaper off' button. And in a sense, they both did and did not at the same time.

So in a sense, I really got what I wanted.

Except that I never got see the light shine after all that darkness.

But man, do I love this game. The moment when I was running like hell TOWARDS THE MOTHER OF ALL REAPERS, no music, just blaring Reaper horn sending shivers down my spine, instant death rays showering all around me, spewing pure destruction, I was thinking to myself: "Holy SHIT, this is the insanest thing I've - EVER- done in a game."

That moment will forever be my favourite moment in all of the trilogy. Just pure awesomeness.

And even though I'd love to hear Harbinger taunt me, the fact that he didn't made it extra scary, really.

I mean, I would have loved to hear him speak at some other point in the game, but the fact that he does not on the beam run... I understand that design choice. Also, anything he would have said, would have prepared you for what was about to come. It would have given away too much.

Do I love ME3?

Hell yes, it'll forever be a classic, it's one of my all-time favourite games ever, hell... maybe even my favourite.

I do understand why the endings ruined it for people, even though that was not the way I experienced it.

But as much as I love the game for what it is, a reveal would do it so much justice and make it ten times better just because HOLY SHIT MINDS WOULD BE BLOWN.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:55 pm

I'm not talking about the endings, I'm talking about the whole game. Do you like ME3? No, "If the endings are IT," no, "If the endings are literal," do you like ME3 as a game?

People, read! It's a limiting question for a reason.

Ultimately, yes, I like it. In itself, without ANY DLC, it's a 7/10 to me (not objective rating but personal), which still qualifies for me liking it.

With all DLC it's a 8/10.

If there's IT (or even beyond IT), sure, a 9-9.5/10 is possible, with 0.5-1.0 from my crazy rating scale taken away because of their DLC and PR practices outside and even inside of the game itself.

But back to the start, the base ME3 is a good game. It doesn't beat ME2 in fun or ME1 in storytelling, but there's combat improvements, customization is just near where I always wanted Mass Effect to be, and I like the overall plot if only for its speculative potential. (Unlike others, I enjoy speculating on things for forever, when it comes down to it)


The only Bioware game I would give a 'No' to would be TOR anyway (which also has enjoyable parts!). DAII is an 'alright to good' game, but not a good main series Dragon Age game.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Argolas on Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:58 pm

As I said. in my case, the endings decide my opinion on not just ME3 but the whole franchise. Explanation above. Agree or disagree...
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