Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:05 pm

Argolas wrote:As I said. in my case, the endings decide my opinion on not just ME3 but the whole franchise. Explanation above. Agree or disagree...

So if there's no 'reveal', and 'ME4/Next' doesn't even strongly address the ME trilogy, is ME3 a good game to you? Do you enjoy it?

I'm only guessing from your words that no, it's not a good game to you, but I never got anything that actually said a 'yes or no'.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Argolas on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:15 pm

SwobyJ wrote:
Argolas wrote:As I said. in my case, the endings decide my opinion on not just ME3 but the whole franchise. Explanation above. Agree or disagree...

So if there's no 'reveal', and 'ME4/Next' doesn't even strongly address the ME trilogy, is ME3 a good game to you? Do you enjoy it?

I'm only guessing from your words that no, it's not a good game to you, but I never got anything that actually said a 'yes or no'.

Eh... I was enjoying the game while playing it without knowing the ending. That is why I voted yes.
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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:22 pm

BansheeOwnage wrote:
Dwaling wrote:
BansheeOwnage wrote:Oh, Dwailing I just noticed the title. Thanks for the nod Rofl

That's what I was doing with the title. The poll itself has a slightly different purpose, but I figured I would do a shout out to you for the title of the thread.
Thanks. Sideways

On topic: I don't think this is such a black and white issue. TIM I mean, sure, the vast majority of the game was awesome. But the effect of the ending was retroactive (even across the other 2 games) and long lasting. The end indirectly makes the rest of the game, even the trilogy, suffer. And more importantly, it makes the fans suffer.

Here's the thing, the ending only affects the future of the series. It doesn't change what came before. ME1 and ME2 are still great games, ME3 until the end is still a great game. I understand your thoughts, but I don't agree with them.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by hukbum on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:55 pm

I have a love/hate thingy going on with ME3 ... so ... where is the "not sure" option?

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Dwailing on Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:10 am

hukbum wrote:I have a love/hate thingy going on with ME3 ... so ... where is the "not sure" option?

Here's the thing, do you like the game overall? As in, are you able to like the rest of the game even with the ending? Or does the low quality of the ending ruin the whole experience for you and stop you from enjoying it?

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by hukbum on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:13 am

Dwaling wrote:
hukbum wrote:I have a love/hate thingy going on with ME3 ... so ... where is the "not sure" option?

Here's the thing, do you like the game overall? As in, are you able to like the rest of the game even with the ending? Or does the low quality of the ending ruin the whole experience for you and stop you from enjoying it?
Well, with IT it's a good game, without it's ...
There are many good parts within the game, but also really sloppy, wierd, stupid stuff, so I can't really tell. It's not black and white like good or bad ... for me the game is just grey.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Grey on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:17 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I have to be honest, I love the game, it's probably my favourite of the three, despite certain shortcomings.

I don't have this aversion to the endings that others have. I don't have a problem at all playing through Cronos and London.

In fact, and this is probably blasphemy to many people here, but London is my favourite part of the game. I know it's in many ways a let down for people because it's no suicide mission, it lacks music, etcetera, but I love it for what it is.

I think the fact that there is almost no music is actually an awesome design choice.

It's all just so grim-dark, but here's the thing: I love grim-dark. I'm a total sucker for it.

The darker things are, the brighter the light shines when it finally does.

(Example, having seen the events in Revenge of the Sith really added more emotion to Darth Vader's final redemption in Return of the Jedi for me.)

I love that there's no music, it's in many ways more immersive. The constant sirens going off in the background, the sounds of the Reapers and Reaper horns blaring in the background, knowing you're walking in London, it's just so incredibly immersive. It really adds to this dark feeling of despair it creates.

The first time playing the game (actually every playthrough so far, excluding the one where I played Citadel - because that totally broke that feeling) there was this huge build-up of despair, and a general uneasy feeling of "How is this story ever going to end well?"

I still find it surreal. The Crucible never managed to inspire much confidence or hope in me, not even on the first playthrough.

Not that I thought that it was fishy on my first playthrough though. I expected the actual purpose of the Crucible to be something that would be a huge plot twist. I thought the twist was going to be that it wasn't actually a weapon, but something else. It didn't actually occur to me that it could be a trap, I really should have noticed that.

I just thought that it seemed like such a huge macguffin, but I couldn't actually believe that Bioware would actually go for a magical 'Reaper off' button. And in a sense, they both did and did not at the same time.

So in a sense, I really got what I wanted.

Except that I never got see the light shine after all that darkness.

But man, do I love this game. The moment when I was running like hell TOWARDS THE MOTHER OF ALL REAPERS, no music, just blaring Reaper horn sending shivers down my spine, instant death rays showering all around me, spewing pure destruction, I was thinking to myself: "Holy SHIT, this is the insanest thing I've - EVER- done in a game."

That moment will forever be my favourite moment in all of the trilogy. Just pure awesomeness.

And even though I'd love to hear Harbinger taunt me, the fact that he didn't made it extra scary, really.

I mean, I would have loved to hear him speak at some other point in the game, but the fact that he does not on the beam run... I understand that design choice. Also, anything he would have said, would have prepared you for what was about to come. It would have given away too much.

Do I love ME3?

Hell yes, it'll forever be a classic, it's one of my all-time favourite games ever, hell... maybe even my favourite.

I do understand why the endings ruined it for people, even though that was not the way I experienced it.

But as much as I love the game for what it is, a reveal would do it so much justice and make it ten times better just because HOLY SHIT MINDS WOULD BE BLOWN.

This +100. 3 is my favourite as well. In fact, (ducks from the potential incoming) I don't even mind the literal version when taking destroy and I certainly do not have the hate that some do towards the endings as they stand. I could obviously add more but you happened to do it so well.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Raistlin Majere on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:42 am

Grey wrote:
DoomsdayDevice wrote:I have to be honest, I love the game, it's probably my favourite of the three, despite certain shortcomings.

I don't have this aversion to the endings that others have. I don't have a problem at all playing through Cronos and London.

In fact, and this is probably blasphemy to many people here, but London is my favourite part of the game. I know it's in many ways a let down for people because it's no suicide mission, it lacks music, etcetera, but I love it for what it is.

I think the fact that there is almost no music is actually an awesome design choice.

It's all just so grim-dark, but here's the thing: I love grim-dark. I'm a total sucker for it.

The darker things are, the brighter the light shines when it finally does.

(Example, having seen the events in Revenge of the Sith really added more emotion to Darth Vader's final redemption in Return of the Jedi for me.)

I love that there's no music, it's in many ways more immersive. The constant sirens going off in the background, the sounds of the Reapers and Reaper horns blaring in the background, knowing you're walking in London, it's just so incredibly immersive. It really adds to this dark feeling of despair it creates.

The first time playing the game (actually every playthrough so far, excluding the one where I played Citadel - because that totally broke that feeling) there was this huge build-up of despair, and a general uneasy feeling of "How is this story ever going to end well?"

I still find it surreal. The Crucible never managed to inspire much confidence or hope in me, not even on the first playthrough.

Not that I thought that it was fishy on my first playthrough though. I expected the actual purpose of the Crucible to be something that would be a huge plot twist. I thought the twist was going to be that it wasn't actually a weapon, but something else. It didn't actually occur to me that it could be a trap, I really should have noticed that.

I just thought that it seemed like such a huge macguffin, but I couldn't actually believe that Bioware would actually go for a magical 'Reaper off' button. And in a sense, they both did and did not at the same time.

So in a sense, I really got what I wanted.

Except that I never got see the light shine after all that darkness.

But man, do I love this game. The moment when I was running like hell TOWARDS THE MOTHER OF ALL REAPERS, no music, just blaring Reaper horn sending shivers down my spine, instant death rays showering all around me, spewing pure destruction, I was thinking to myself: "Holy SHIT, this is the insanest thing I've - EVER- done in a game."

That moment will forever be my favourite moment in all of the trilogy. Just pure awesomeness.

And even though I'd love to hear Harbinger taunt me, the fact that he didn't made it extra scary, really.

I mean, I would have loved to hear him speak at some other point in the game, but the fact that he does not on the beam run... I understand that design choice. Also, anything he would have said, would have prepared you for what was about to come. It would have given away too much.

Do I love ME3?

Hell yes, it'll forever be a classic, it's one of my all-time favourite games ever, hell... maybe even my favourite.

I do understand why the endings ruined it for people, even though that was not the way I experienced it.

But as much as I love the game for what it is, a reveal would do it so much justice and make it ten times better just because HOLY SHIT MINDS WOULD BE BLOWN.

This +100. 3 is my favourite as well. In fact, (ducks from the potential incoming) I don't even mind the literal version when taking destroy and I certainly do not have the hate that some do towards the endings as they stand. I could obviously add more but you happened to do it so well.

I don't hate destroy, I just find it very lazy. Victory through sacrifice, that is not something I hate, but the presentation is severely lacking with the sudden appearance of Starbrat and the over all Deus Ex Machina feeling surrounding the Crucible and its use. I can accept it on some level though.

Control and Synthesis however I despise. They go against the themes of the past 2.99 games and all but out right tells us the villains were right all along and yet they are presented as good, even better options than Destroy because there will be no sacrifice, hell we will ascend beyond what we are in Synthesis. There is never shown any drawbacks to it despite all we have learned throughout Mass Effect about such technology, the only drawback in both cases is that Shepard will die.

And that is the problem, my problem. As long as Control and Synthesis are shown as 100% positive it will have destroyed the themes running through the series and made the villains right.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Grey on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:26 am

Raistlin Majere wrote:

I don't hate destroy, I just find it very lazy. Victory through sacrifice, that is not something I hate, but the presentation is severely lacking with the sudden appearance of Starbrat and the over all Deus Ex Machina feeling surrounding the Crucible and its use. I can accept it on some level though.

Control and Synthesis however I despise. They go against the themes of the past 2.99 games and all but out right tells us the villains were right all along and yet they are presented as good, even better options than Destroy because there will be no sacrifice, hell we will ascend beyond what we are in Synthesis. There is never shown any drawbacks to it despite all we have learned throughout Mass Effect about such technology, the only drawback in both cases is that Shepard will die.

And that is the problem, my problem. As long as Control and Synthesis are shown as 100% positive it will have destroyed the themes running through the series and made the villains right.

I understand why you feel that way, I really do. I guess I just don't have much of an issue with the more 'speculative' aspect of the ending scenarios. One man's totalitarian, dictatorship over an entire galaxy is another man's benevolant galactic overseer in the form of ReaperShep. One man's homogenised galactic rape, is another man's utopian, biblical Eden, one man's heroic sacrifice to rid the galaxy of a cyclical galactic genocide, is another man's genocide of innocents to achieve an unnecessary goal. In short, what I have found really fascinating about how the endings have played out, (including I.T which is the most interesting IMO) is just how much those interpretations can differ from one player to another. For me there is no 100% positive simply because of that personal interpretation which makes the ends a very personal and very different experience for each player.

As I said though, I understand many players are not comfortable with personal interpretation coming into play and that a clear, definitive answer is required, myself included to some degree. To me though the end and how every single player has a slightly differing view upon what it means to them, is the only true time that the players Shepard become truly unique to all other Shepards and I can't help but somewhat like and appreciate that. All IMO.

ETA: I would of course like Bioware to tell me that my own personal interpretation is the correct one of course ;D

ETAA: Oh and an option to kick Harby right in the daddybags. Conventional victory not possible be damned.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Eryri on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:17 am

Raistlin Majere wrote:

I don't hate destroy, I just find it very lazy. Victory through sacrifice, that is not something I hate, but the presentation is severely lacking with the sudden appearance of Starbrat and the over all Deus Ex Machina feeling surrounding the Crucible and its use. I can accept it on some level though.

Control and Synthesis however I despise. They go against the themes of the past 2.99 games and all but out right tells us the villains were right all along and yet they are presented as good, even better options than Destroy because there will be no sacrifice, hell we will ascend beyond what we are in Synthesis. There is never shown any drawbacks to it despite all we have learned throughout Mass Effect about such technology, the only drawback in both cases is that Shepard will die.

And that is the problem, my problem. As long as Control and Synthesis are shown as 100% positive it will have destroyed the themes running through the series and made the villains right.

My feelings exactly. The fact that the loathsome Control and the ludicrous Synthesis are presented as better options to Destroy is what ruins both the ending and the whole series retroactively for me, irrational though that may be.

Perhaps it's my half hearted Catholic upbringing, but I like to see Pride followed by a Fall. Hubris punished by Nemesis. Control and Synthesis are so grotesquely arrogant, that I want to see them have terrible consequences. Instead we get the proverbial rainbow farting unicorns. They just turn my stomach and make the whole series unplayable.


Last edited by Eryri on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Humakt on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:52 pm

Definite pass. The best game in the amazing trilogy.

As for the ending, I think it is brilliant.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by WeAreHarbinger on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:04 pm

I liked it, not the strongest for me (ME 2 gets that) but i loved the game. The endings tarnished that slightly but i enjoy the whole game up until Cronos so yeah, it gets a pass from me.

I enjoy the trilogy up until Cronos to be fair, hands down one of my favorite game series to this date.

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:48 pm

Eryri wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:

I don't hate destroy, I just find it very lazy. Victory through sacrifice, that is not something I hate, but the presentation is severely lacking with the sudden appearance of Starbrat and the over all Deus Ex Machina feeling surrounding the Crucible and its use. I can accept it on some level though.

Control and Synthesis however I despise. They go against the themes of the past 2.99 games and all but out right tells us the villains were right all along and yet they are presented as good, even better options than Destroy because there will be no sacrifice, hell we will ascend beyond what we are in Synthesis. There is never shown any drawbacks to it despite all we have learned throughout Mass Effect about such technology, the only drawback in both cases is that Shepard will die.

And that is the problem, my problem. As long as Control and Synthesis are shown as 100% positive it will have destroyed the themes running through the series and made the villains right.

My feelings exactly. The fact that the loathsome Control and the ludicrous Synthesis are presented as better options to Destroy is what ruins both the ending and the whole series retroactively for me, irrational though that may be.

Perhaps it's my half hearted Catholic upbringing, but I like to see Pride followed by a Fall. Hubris punished by Nemesis. Control and Synthesis are so grotesquely arrogant, that I want to see them have terrible consequences. Instead we get the proverbial rainbow farting unicorns. They just turn my stomach and make the whole series unplayable.

Yeah, I do share this feeling about control and synthesis. The fact that these are portrayed to be perfectly okay, without any negative consequences is just wrong to me.

More than anything, more even than seeing Shepard getting out of the rubble, I want to see what -really- happens in those two endings.

But yeah, here we are talking about the endings again, haha. Chaaaaarge!

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by Humakt on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:21 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:

But yeah, here we are talking about the endings again, haha. Chaaaaarge!

You can't escape the endings. Starbrat

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Re: Mass Effect 3: Pass or Fail

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:26 pm

Seems like we are no better than the BS Network in this respect; Laughing

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