"User "Gummy" banned" Response

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"User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Lombus on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:44 pm

I made this topic in the hope that some of you know the other side of the story; there are always 2 sides of it.

Let me start my saying that I’ve been a lurker in the BSN from at least Mark II, I posted once or twice, but I gained the habit of checking the thread almost every day. You guys didn’t know me but I knew you all, and of course I remember Gummy old days in there. I remember provocations, discussions and fights from both sides.

When I came to this forum I only met the “New” Gummy so to speak, and she was always a perfectly reasonable and nice person. I understand why those who contacted more with her in the past might feel some resentment and anger towards her, I really do.
Gummy also had different interpretations on the game and I can’t shake the feeling that one of reasons most of you didn’t like her was because of it as well. But you really need to remind yourselves that the main motto of this forum is, or was, freedom of speech and opinion. If we start attacking those who don’t agree 100% with IT then I’m sorry….but then we’re turning in the thing we hated.

The main reason that made me express my opinion though is a clear misconception in the statement that really needs to be addressed: her multiple quittings.

She wanted to quit multiple times, but the fact is that she always came back because some people from here pressure her to do so, and those who did it know it and can confirm that fact, if they wish of course.
In fact she added some friends at skype, me included, so that’s not the reason she came back either.

I really think you guys may have understood everything the wrong way, or maybe there’s just too much bad blood clouding your judgement. If you wanted her gone at least you should have been honest about it. What you express in the summary of the statement really contradicts what is said during the whole speech, you didn’t like her and that was the main reason. Is clearly said in the following parts:

“If she really thought that she is the victim, that everyone (or a huge part) of the ITers hated her and considering that she even disagrees with most or the entirety of the interpretation most of us have adopted as their ending for ME3, why did she keep coming back?” -Restrider

“Please, do not try to create any more accounts and just leave this community and get on with your life, because the truth is - we don't like you and don't want you around.” -Demersel

With this kind of opinions…I’m surprised she hanged as long as she did, I would have left.

Finally I just want to end this by saying that this is my last comment in the matter, I will move on like she did, as will everyone. I still like everyone in this forum and I don’t want to take sides or attack anyone. This is an awesome community and I would like to continue to be a part of it. Everyone makes mistakes and I understand and accept that.
I just wanted to show the other side of the story and prevent anything like this to happen again.

Lombus

EDIT:

I think I didn’t make myself as clear as I wished so I apologize for that. The reasons for the posts were:

-To say that Gummy came back because people asked her too;

-That though is always sad to see someone get banned like that, in this case this is good for her and for the community;

-I understand and accept that is impossible to be complete objective in such matters, we’re humans after all (Lexor’s post says it better than me);

-I wanted to call to people’s attention that this could have been a misunderstanding, and if it’s then we should try our best to prevent it from happening again. I just don’t want this place to be another BSN. Uncertain

And like I said before I still love you guys and want to continue here nevertheless, and the issue is considered dropped by me.

Lombus



Last edited by Lombus on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by RavenEyry on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:57 pm

I think the manipulative messages were the main reason for the ban. If occasionally being rude and getting into arguments was a bannable offense there'd be about three people left on the forum.

I agree demersel could have been a bit more polite about it though.
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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Rifneno on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:03 pm

I had written a reply for your post in the main thread, but I'll post it here instead since you went and made a thread just to talk about how you fell for her act.

Lombus wrote:
Restrider wrote:To make sure that everony sees it:

Announcement
I'm gonna be perfectly honest about this...it's quite sad. The good thing is that at least now the two sides can stop fighting each other and move on. I only wish there had been another way Sad

The only thing sad about it is that such a person exists in the first place. The community did not lose a member, it was cured of a disease. Megumi wasn't here to discuss IT or be friends with anyone. If anyone thought she was a friend, she was probably just playing nice so they'd fall for her manipulations. She was a troll of the highest caliber. One that didn't just say something to get people angry at her, but rather pulled everyone's stings. I knew she was subtly screwing with us well before we moved to these boards; nobody is simply mistaken as often as she was. She was planting misinformation to discredit IT. But I had no idea how deep that rabbithole went. How low she'd sink. Trying to turn friends, even siblings, against each other. What a pathetic, despicable excuse for a human being.

If you think she was the victim in all this or that she was genuinely a decent person, you got taken in. It's as simple as that.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by demersel on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:06 pm

Lombus wrote:If you wanted her gone at least you should have been honest about it.

"we don't like you and don't want you around.” -Demersel

Lombus
You kind of contradict yourself in your long post - so I cut it down to the essentials - and ask this - isn't the thing you said we should have done exaclty the thing that we actually did?

Lombus wrote:
With this kind of opinions…I’m surprised she hanged as long as she did, I would have left.

I know, right?? That is one of the main points actually.

RavenEyry wrote:
I agree demersel could have been a bit more polite about it though.

I was extremely polite.
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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Hrothdane on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:21 pm

I have never supported permanently banning anyone thus far, except Gummy. I barely ever interacted with her and stayed neutral during the feud between her and Rif.

We found a clear pattern of behavior stretching back well into the history of our BSN days. She went beyond simple flame-baiting and manipulated people in the most underhanded manner.

The vote was over a two thirds majority just for instant ban with no votes for doing nothing, and we discussed it for weeks before and after, and nobody was in a hurry to do the actual ban. It was a good move done with proper consideration and procedure.

As for what was written on Gummy's profile, demersel wrote that on his own when he did the chat ban, so don't take it as a statement of the opinions of everyone.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by lex0r on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:23 pm

The reason we voted was this:


Restrider wrote:

To say it crystal-clear:
She was not banned for having a different opinion.
She was not banned for insulting someone (although she did that in the past in a very personal and offensive fashion).
She was banned for the malicious intent to drive the posters on these boards against each other.



We reviewed reports from several people. It is over.

The reason stands. I tried to make it clear, while discussing this with everyone, not to make it into a wichhunt and get it over with fast and keep it clean without any more fighting.

People are right to expect an explanation and they are right to expect the mods to stay objective when it comes to these matters. Sometimes it is very hard to do so when people involved in the process were part of the fight too.

That some sentences in the announcement have a too personal touch is regrettable but it doesn't matter anymore. What's done is done and it is too late to change anything about the wording.
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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by marajade on Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:42 pm

i though gummy was bad banner until i discover that she told me manipulative pms against people telling me that i was being insulted. I had bad arguments in chat thanks her influence. And im not the only one i dont care her mass effect opinions or whatever she did in Bsn LIE and manipulate are real razonable reason to banning her multiple times

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Byne on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:04 am

Lombus wrote:
Gummy also had different interpretations on the game and I can’t shake the feeling that one of reasons most of you didn’t like her was because of it as well. But you really need to remind yourselves that the main motto of this forum is, or was, freedom of speech and opinion. If we start attacking those who don’t agree 100% with IT then I’m sorry….but then we’re turning in the thing we hated.


There are plenty of people who have differing interpretations of the game, and we havent banned any of them, so this just seems like you're trying to make excuses for why she was banned, or trying to find secret reasons for why we dislike her. Truth is, we dont need secret reasons to dislike her, as the ones we have presented are more than enough. I disliked Megumi ever since she randomly insulted Rif for being disabled, and since then she's only done more things to prove my dislike was warranted. At no point in time have I ever cared about what she thought about ME, as its entirely irrelevant to why she was banned.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Maximus on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:12 am

I was a lurker since...Mark I/Mark II - something like that. Never posted on BSN...and Megumi was still pissin' me off every time I read her posts. She was always lookin' for a fight, always goin' for confrontation with everybody and pretendin' that she is a victim...
IMO, She deserved that perma-ban. I won't miss her, at all.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Rifneno on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:35 am

I'm still at an absolute loss as to how anyone can read Restrider's crystal clear explanation of her incredible douchebaggery and still think she was banned because she didn't agree with IT. Seriously, it's incredible. It is not a thing I can comprehend. Reaper

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Maximus on Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:30 am

“Your understanding is limited...” Harbinger

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Rifneno on Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:32 am

That which you know as Megumi is your salvation through manipulation. Harbinger

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:57 am

I'm cool with this because, like I've said in chat before, I could see she was trying to manipulate me too, so whatever.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by DSharrah on Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:44 am

I remember some of the fights from BSN...and I respect Rif's reaction given the history...but I do think that it is sad that it had to come to this...I thank all the mods for taking the steps necessary to prevent this forum from falling into the toxicity that the BSN became. I wish there had been a better way...but it is what it is...

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:55 am

I am accepting of it but a little conflicted about it at the same time. On the one hand, she was always nice to me and never did any of this 'turn ITers against others' thing the announcement said she did. On the other hand, she did do it to others so I understand the complaints. In the end, there is nothing I could do about it and I will have to accept the Mod's decision in this even if I think it could have been handled differently.
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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Terramine on Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:00 am

I've been gone for a bit... I'm just staying out of it lol

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by MaximizedAction on Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:47 pm

Agree with everything OP wrote, also the edit.

I also think this could've been handled A LOT better. And hopefully, in the future, it will.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Restrider on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:29 pm

MaximizedAction wrote:Agree with everything OP wrote, also the edit.

I also think this could've been handled A LOT better. And hopefully, in the future, it will.
Such as?
There already were several attempts to mediate between the respective parties, here and already in Mark III.
And as I said, this wasn't due to the typical, heated debates she usually was an integral part of. It was due to her trying to manipulate people into fighting each other through some sort of vague, ambiguous secret "diplomacy". So far there are four confirmed times this has happened - some more "intense" than others.
What are you going to do as a moderator? Politely ask her to stop?
It would've just resulted in the typical shit storm she is so apt in creating and she more than likely would've dragged a lot of people into this, leading to internal fighting over something not at all connected to the topic of these boards.
Basically, not permanently banning her would've just fulfilled her main objective, setting these boards on fire and have everyone fighting.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Rifneno on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:05 pm

"This was badly handled" and such are kind of like "IT breaks lore". People say it, but they never explain it. Wonder why that is. Hmm.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by DSharrah on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:17 pm

Rifneno wrote:"This was badly handled" and such are kind of like "IT breaks lore". People say it, but they never explain it. Wonder why that is. Hmm.

IMHO, it was handled poorly...if anything it was a necessary evil - the shame is that it was necessary.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Rifneno on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:31 pm

DSharrah wrote:
Rifneno wrote:"This was badly handled" and such are kind of like "IT breaks lore". People say it, but they never explain it. Wonder why that is. Hmm.

IMHO, it was handled poorly...if anything it was a necessary evil - the shame is that it was necessary.

Again, saying it was handled badly is completely meaningless without explaining why. And no, it wasn't a necessary evil because it wasn't an evil. That piece of shit tried to sabotage this community. There is nothing negative about losing her. She brought nothing but poison to the board.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Hrothdane on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:38 pm

I would really like to know what was so wrong about our procedure. We discussed the issue for ages from many angles before we ever voted on anything. The first discussion of the Gummy issue started months and months ago. Nobody was even considering banning her for her attitude, and the discussion only turned to a perma-ban when her more malicious activities became uncovered.

We barely ever do any actual moderating, so consider it a measure of how serious we felt the situation had become.

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by MovieMachine on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:51 pm

A thread like this is exactly what every troll would want to achieve: Attention and drama.

OP could have discussed this in that chat or PM'd the moderators instead.
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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by DSharrah on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:44 am

Sorry Rif...meant to type "wasn't mishandled"...typing too fast for my own good...

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Re: "User "Gummy" banned" Response

Post by Rifneno on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:40 am

DSharrah wrote:Sorry Rif...meant to type "wasn't mishandled"...typing too fast for my own good...

Ahh, fair enough. The question still stands for the others that said it though.

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