How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

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How are the Reapers defeated?

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Total Votes : 22

How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Humakt on Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:45 pm

Lets see what people have thought on the matter. How you see the allied forces of the Galaxy winning this war? It would also be interesting to hear how you think the option you selected is actually achieved.

I will abstain from voting for now.


Last edited by Humakt83 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by marajade on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:13 pm

its a freaking videogame so i dont care if its realistic or not
I JOINED ALL GALLAXY AND WE SEND THEM TO HELL i dont cure genofage save eva and wrex achieve peace between geth and quarians to do whatever casper says i want win the fight and kill harby with convencional stuff

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by RavenEyry on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:26 pm

Something to do with going to the citadel relay's dark space counterpart.
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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by BlueLogic on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:57 pm

I'm still of the opinion that the Reapers would be more interesting opponents if they relied more heavily on their incredible powers of deception and subversion rather than near physical invincibility.  Basically the Reapers are fewer in number than they've led everyone to to believe, and depend on surprise, panic, and disruption of the mass relays to severely weaken the galaxy's ability to respond militarily.  Therefore, this cycle is different in that Shepard has disrupted their plans from the beginning and given the galaxy a fighting chance.

Also, when Shep overcomes Harbinger's indoctrination attempt, Harby is left vulnerable in a way similar but less severe to how Sovereign was disabled by destroying his avatar.  Harby is destroyed by...something, and the galaxy turns the tables on the Reapers, hunting them to the edge of the galaxy and pushing them back into dark space.  The Cycle is broken, the galaxy is saved for the moment, but the threat of the Reapers lingers on.
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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Raistlin Majere on Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:29 pm

I voted the Crucible Destroys them, but not as in the Crucible is legit.

I think it is a trap, but it is still a device which generates an obscene amount of energy. Direct that energy towards the right purpose and I think even something intended as a trap can be turned to our advantage.

Conventional I do not see happening simply because even a rough estimate of their numbers at Earth leave us utterly outgunned.

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by dorktainian on Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:56 pm

if the citadel is a reaper (not a huge leap of logic) then the catalyst has to die to stop the reapers - as he is the 'hub' that holds everything together.  destroy the citadel, destroy the reapers.

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Raistlin Majere on Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:28 pm

dork wrote:if the citadel is a reaper (not a huge leap of logic) then the catalyst has to die to stop the reapers - as he is the 'hub' that holds everything together.  destroy the citadel, destroy the reapers.
That is assuming the Catalyst is the leader and not just a creation made to fool Shepard.

I personally would be very disappointed if we went with a "keystone army" scenario, especially since it is so ridicoulously common with robotic armies. The Reapers are allready diminished as enemies by the mere idea that something is controlling them instead of the "each a nation" quote from Sovereign.

Sovereign and Harbinger showed no signs that anything was controlling them or maintaining them in their conquest. To them this was their choice (though it could be indoctrination, I would not mind that as long as there is not some magical device maintaining it) and every single action, every single dead caused by each Reaper is ultimately something which lays on the Reapers, not some puppet master in the background.

And really if we have to go with a "keystone army" mastermind scenario, the Citadel is not the logical place to place it. The logical place would be the Citadel equivalant in Dark Space, far away from any fighting.

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by dorktainian on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:31 pm

or can the citadel be in two places at once?  Both in Dark Space and above Earth?  Like some kind of Quantum Shift?  a gateway that needs a key to open (the crudible)

What if locating the crudible under the citadel allows this - opening a portal to dark space?  therefore you still need to destroy the citadel - and thus render it's twin in dark space useless (so maybe we can go and kick their arses in ME4)

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Rifneno on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:48 pm

FTL projectiles.

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:38 am

The Reapers aren't going to be defeated.

The point of the ending is that the Reapers win, no matter what you choose.

You may choose to believe whichever of the endings/illusions you like. Shepard always ends up indoctrinated. Everyone always ends up harvested.

The story of Mass Effect is the story about the end of the human race. (And the rest of the cycle)

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by FreewheelinDylan on Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:14 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:The Reapers aren't going to be defeated.

The point of the ending is that the Reapers win, no matter what you choose.

You may choose to believe whichever of the endings/illusions you like. Shepard always ends up indoctrinated. Everyone always ends up harvested.

This was my ending...with Refuse as the only true response.  Otherwise, all the ending results/slideshows/Buzz Aldrin/etc are just Indoctrinated Visions Shepard has as he becomes absorbed into a Reaper.  Imo, this ending is the only ending that makes sense within the confines of what BioWare gave us and matches the frustration, depression, and sense of hopelessness that was ME3's ending.  It's akin to a Kafka story.  

Also, no one ever finds Liara's Beacon.  It gets lost on one of the thousand other unexplored planets.

Of course, if I had to say how it ended, Shepard would have to destroy the Catalyst, the AI which connects all the Reapers.  It's akin to the Geth Consensus.  This puts the Reapers out of commission.  However, Shepard is interrupted by Harbinger who reveals he has been attempting to rebel and seize control of the Reapers.  Upon destroying the Catalyst, Harby successfully achieves consciousness.  He asks Shepard to ascend, in which case the cycle will end and peace will become achieved.

If you accept, the galaxy gets absorbed into the Reapers and the only things that exist are dormant Reapers. Thus, peace has been achieved.

If you refuse, you get the real ending.

It becomes everyone vs. Harbinger.  Suicide Mission on steroids.  Shepard must somehow get inside of Harbinger.  Inside, he hallucinates, fights scary indoctrinated creatures/husks/invisible enemies/etc.  There are multiple levels/stages that Shepard must engage.  Each stage gets interrupted by the Normandy as it makes decisions to rescue Shepard/distract Harbinger/help out ground troops.  Depending on what decisions you make as Joker/Garrus/Liara/etc, the ending may or may not result in a positive outcome
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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Terramine on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:45 am

Lets put it this way... Bioware said the ending didn't have a conventional boss fight, it's a battle of minds. To me I believe that says it all, the final boss fight usually ends everything. In this battle with Harbinger, or in fact all reapers... if we win, we win the conflict. Something else this game has taught us, is what victory really is. Right before going to battle, Wrex says something that i think rings so true. We united the galaxy... that's a victory. It's a victory because it disproves the Reaper's assertions. Putting any theories aside like them wanting to indoctrinate Shepard, or Shepard having an ability himself. They want Shepard because he does 1 thing that does make him UNIQUE for a fact. He can beat the Reapers, this is an undeniable fact. We ITers know Shepard can do it... and he can do it because he can prove the Reapers wrong, and he can resist their influence no matter what.

That's how we win this thing. By being better than them in the 1 place it counts... the place they claim such superiority that we are incapable: The mind.

The number 1 thing they think they are best at, is the mind. They'll state that we are incapable to comprehend, so casually that to them it's a stronger fact than whether or not we can wipe the out. It truly is their pride and joy, they've honed it and perfected it... it took them so long to get perfected. Yet Shepard can beat their "perfect weapon", their pride and joy. Even if it didn't do anything on the hardware side, what do you think that does to them? A mere human cannot do that. But he can and he will.

I really think it should've ended with some major confrontation, something that truly made Shepard legendary. Whether it be like a collector base scenario or something else, and it would happen after Shepard beats the Reapers in the mind battle. You would then battle to the most epic music of all time, and fight multiple Reapers at once, harbinger being one of them. That really is what I expected, Shepard to beat them in a realization that he is better... then he'd wake up in the rubble and he'd be surrounded by Harbinger and other reapers... but yet... Shepard would also have his squadmates there, and the galactic forces fighting. And so Shepard would go all out in a final battle, not necessarily under player control... it could've been a cutscene. Of course 5 Reapers at once sounds insane, Shepard is a Legend. A Legend is someone who battles 5 dragons at once. That's a legend... a legend is someone who you wonder if they were even human, a legend is someone whom does something that when you hear it... you would never believe it until you saw it.

That's just my imagination, but I think whatever the case the true victory is in winning this mind battle Bioware said is taking place.

"There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign."

"Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding."

Their biggest weapon IS INDOCTRINATION. Anybody can blow shit up... to control a mind completely. None other has done it, and no other has fully resisted it. For Shepard to do that here and now, to resist it... it proves he isn't incapable of understanding, it proves the reaper's aren't beyond his comprehension. Even if they killed him now, it means nothing. As they thought about Shepard... he has killed Reapers, but as long as they can play the "incomprehensible" card they can consider themselves above him. If he proves them wrong, and proves he is on their level... even if they kill him, they cannot deny it.

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:19 am

oh shit - just had a thought that actually Refuse might be the correct ending (not that that is a bad thing) as it is the ONLY answer which is created by you. The others are all 'suggestions' of the biggest intergalactic murdering synthetic in history'.

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Raistlin Majere on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:29 am

dork wrote:oh shit - just had a thought that actually Refuse might be the correct ending (not that that is a bad thing) as it is the ONLY answer which is created by you.  The others are all 'suggestions' of the biggest intergalactic murdering  synthetic in history'.

"We will fight, we will sacrifice and we will find a way" - Shepard at the end of Arrival, Paragon response.

"I know you have thought about destroying us."

Destroy is not Starbrats idea. Victory no matter the cost is the idea that has been drilled into our head ever since we choose whether or not to save the Destiny Ascension in Mass Effect 1.


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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:15 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:
dork wrote:oh shit - just had a thought that actually Refuse might be the correct ending (not that that is a bad thing) as it is the ONLY answer which is created by you.  The others are all 'suggestions' of the biggest intergalactic murdering  synthetic in history'.

"We will fight, we will sacrifice and we will find a way" - Shepard at the end of Arrival, Paragon response.

"I know you have thought about destroying us."

Destroy is not Starbrats idea. Victory no matter the cost is the idea that has been drilled into our head ever since we choose whether or not to save the Destiny Ascension in Mass Effect 1.

yey i hear that. however we are presented with 3 choices. all of them (even if he doesnt want destroy) are his choices. None of them are our own because they all come with 'conditions' attached - apart from refusing to believe the jumped up little shit.

Why can't we tell the little fuckturd to 'fuck off'?


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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Terramine on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:41 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:
dork wrote:oh shit - just had a thought that actually Refuse might be the correct ending (not that that is a bad thing) as it is the ONLY answer which is created by you.  The others are all 'suggestions' of the biggest intergalactic murdering  synthetic in history'.

"We will fight, we will sacrifice and we will find a way" - Shepard at the end of Arrival, Paragon response.

"I know you have thought about destroying us."

Destroy is not Starbrats idea. Victory no matter the cost is the idea that has been drilled into our head ever since we choose whether or not to save the Destiny Ascension in Mass Effect 1.

No, no it hasn't. The evidence to the contrary is so abundant I cannot grasp how you guys were taught to believe no matter the cost is justifiable or that Bioware was sending that message. First off, logically you need an equal justification to the cost. To say you could never reach a cost too great is nonsensical since there may very well be infinitely worse things than what you face, and infinitely better justifications. Near the beginning of Mass Effect 1, when you learn about Saren, you are told by Anderson what exactly is wrong with Saren. That he'd give anything to get the job done... he'd sacrifice so many just to get the job done. This is monstrous and Bioware never made it otherwise. They continued to show how his "no matter the cost" attitude lead him to his inevitable demise... he believed if he compromised with the Reapers, that they would spare him, where at the end he realizes he was wrong and blows his brains out. The very idea that the Reapers would compromise, was simply another "cost" to Saren. AT ANY COST, EVEN IF IT MEANS WORKING WITH THE REAPERS.

You see it again in another huge example: The Illusive Man
TIM is another figure painted by a dark past, his organization is known for terrorism. Indeed we were shown how true it was in ME1 even. Terrorists are judged by society for the fact that they do extreme and inhumane things of the elusive arts to achieve their goals. TIM is a perfect example of what I am talking about, he accepts everything the Reapers are. At first it's just the technology, but then he degrades more and more and starts believing and thinking like they do. That ALL COSTS are justified, children ended up at sanctuary for crying out loud. At the end you have a final confrontation with TIM, he shoots his brains out because you convince him he has gone too far. It doesn't get clearer than this.

What more do you need? 2 perfect examples of thinking no matter the cost is acceptable... they got their brains blown out, and it was BECAUSE of the way they thought. Seriously if that isn't convincing enough that Bioware is against that thinking, I dunno what is. Why do you guys cling to Destroy so much? Were you interested in Shepard's resolve, or your own? Because the former is the ONLY way to victory. For which this is Shepard's resolve:

"Isn't it? You're willing to give up anything for control." - Renegade Shepard.
Wouldn't this be hypocritical of Shepard? If "no matter the cost" is Shepard's resolve.

"You sacrifice too much." - Renegade Shepard
How much clearer does it get?

"Not if we lose our humanity in the process! I'm out there fighting to stop crap like this!" - Paragon Shepard
BOTH PARAGON AND RENEGADE AGREE. If anything was a canon Shepard resolve, it's the resolve to do the right thing NO MATTER WHAT.

"I don't think so. I'm gonna stop the Reapers, but I won't sacrifice the soul of our species to do it." Paragon Shepard.
All the evidence you have does not point to beating the Reapers at no matter the cost, as I have proven that to be impossible. The only possible thing those evidences could have meant, was the resolve to do what is right. Thus I believe I have resolved this debate, I have supplied such compelling proof and converted any opposing proof into proof for my side.

Most importantly.
"There's always another way." - Anderson
The moment you start thinking you need the Reapers is when you are indoctrinated.
The moment you stop believing that we can do this on our own because of our perseverance and finding another way, what makes us human, we lose. There is no worse way to lose... to lose who you are. This is the Reaper's pride and joy, Indoctrination. Corrupt and control everything, even who you are.

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Terramine on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:02 pm

dork wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:
dork wrote:oh shit - just had a thought that actually Refuse might be the correct ending (not that that is a bad thing) as it is the ONLY answer which is created by you.  The others are all 'suggestions' of the biggest intergalactic murdering  synthetic in history'.

"We will fight, we will sacrifice and we will find a way" - Shepard at the end of Arrival, Paragon response.

"I know you have thought about destroying us."

Destroy is not Starbrats idea. Victory no matter the cost is the idea that has been drilled into our head ever since we choose whether or not to save the Destiny Ascension in Mass Effect 1.

yey i hear that.  however we are presented with 3 choices.  all of them (even if he doesnt want destroy) are his choices.  None of them are our own because they all come with 'conditions' attached - apart from refusing to believe the jumped up little shit.

Why can't we tell the little fuckturd to 'fuck off'?

You know what I find especially interesting? Anyone else notice TIM says "Crucibles" instead of "Crucible"? He says it plural, and you can't make a mistake like that in voice acting because they would've caught it right away and fixed it. He says it plural, as if there is more than 1. He says that he knows with certainty the "crucibles" will allow him to control the Reapers. Interesting, I wonder what he could have meant. But if you think about it... accepting Destroy by extension validates the other 2 options. You can't choose Destroy and distrust the other options, all the options come from the same place. It'd be hypocritical to trust THE LEADER OF THE REAPERS about any of these options, but not all. Either you trust him or you don't and by believing Destroy works, Shepard must also think Synthesis and Control work.

Someone mentioned the whole RGB thing. That all the colors need to be there to get the whole picture. I KNOW THE PICTURE. "Crucible" is defined as a melting pot. The picture is compromise with the Reapers. All of the ideas work together to create this picture. The picture is it's strongest and fullest when all 3 options are present, all 3 lead to compromise with the Reapers. Compromise with the Reapers results in indoctrination. To believe they will let you destroy them, is to be doomed. In Anderson's own words, either we destroy them or they destroy us. NO COMPROMISE, not even a twisted scenario where they help us destroy them.

I will from now on consider Destroy supporters indoctrinated. They have compromised with the Reapers. Not that I'll preach all the time or anything, in fact that is the point to this... to get it out of my system so you all know what I think, what my position is. If you support Synthesis, you are Indoctrinated. If you support Control, you are Indoctrinated. If you support Destroy, you are Indoctrinated.

I am not indoctrinated, because I did not compromise with the Reapers.

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Re: How are the Reapers going to be defeated?

Post by Steelcan on Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:23 am

like this




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