The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by clennon8 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:35 pm

Before we get going, let's get some disclaimers out of the way.

1. This is a literary discussion. Not a religious debate.

2. This is not intended as a survey of religious beliefs.

3. That said, I am an atheist. Now you don't need to ask or guess.


Okay. Let's get started.

We all know there are religious parallels throughout the Mass Effect series. Shepard's very name is a reference to Jesus Christ, the "Good Shepherd." Shepard's death and rebirth via the Lazarus Project is a self-acknowledged biblical reference. Shepard's 12 ME2 teammates are analagous to Christ's Twelve Apostles. There is the general messianic nature of Shepard, which many people have noted. I'm sure you can point out more religious parallels that appear throughout the game series (and feel free to do so) but what I really want to do is discuss how religion plays into the endings, particularly Control and Synthesis. Why? Because I think it is quite likely more evidence that the ending is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard.

Here are some associations/assumptions/facts that I am starting with:

1) Religion and indoctrination are very closely linked. So closely linked as to be virtually the same thing in the Mass Effect games.

2) One of the known symptoms of indoctrination in the Mass Effect games is that it causes the victims to regard the Reapers "with superstitious awe."

3) "Superstitious awe" = religion

And here are some religious themes that I find to be present in the Control and Synthesis endings:

Martyrdom: In both endings, Shepard makes the ultimate sacrifice. The martyrdom imagery is especially apparent in Synthesis, where Shepard dies for the syn(thesi)s of organics, giving them a fresh start. He even plummets to his death in a beam of angelic light, arms wide and legs slightly crossed in an obvious Jesus-like crucifixion pose.

Faith: Shepard blindly accepts the word of the Catalyst, a prophet-like figure who offers mumbo-jumbo instead of coherent explanations or proof.

Afterlife/Deification: In the Control ending, Shepard's (holy) ghost appears to ascend to a position of omnipotence, to watch over the galaxy with an army of Reaper angels. In the Synthesis ending, Shepard supposedly infuses the galaxy with his essence, remaking it in his image. This is Vitalism. Also, Shepard is now omnipresent, literally everywhere and in everybody.


I am also including this post that I mined from the depths of BSN, because I think it is an interesting take, and quite relevant to the topic at hand:
halbert986 wrote...

I'm not religious but I think this has merit. So bear with me here...

Someone from Bioware mentioned Jesus on twitter when the game first came out, so lets use that as a metaphor... (it is "the greatest story ever told" so of course anything that parallels it should do alright.)

Some have made the Shepard - Jesus comparison before but I've yet to see anything like this and I thought it very interesting.

The decision chamber is akin to the 3 temptations of Christ. Reapers = Devil. Shepard = Jesus.

The reapers present Shepard with his 3 options. Compare it to the devil tempting Jesus...

Synthesis - Is the 1st temptation in which Satan tempts Jesus to turn stones into bread.

Satan was tempting Jesus to doubt he was the son of God, to lust for something that he wanted before God was willing to give it to him and in doing so, to become his own “God.” It's the same as Adam and Eve's story where God told them if they ate the fruit, they would die. But the serpent tells them they will surely live.

It's not about living and dying with Shepard, it's about destroying the reapers. "God" tells us synthesis won't destroy the reapers, but the catalyst promises it will.

Control - Is the 3rd temptation. In which satan offers Jesus the kingdoms of the world.

Satan was tempting Jesus to “save the world” in an easier, far less humiliating way than death on a cross. But the price for Jesus would be - to sell his soul to the devil – and lose the authority to save the world. It would appear to be a benefit for the short term, but in the long term it would be a complete failure.

Pretty self explanatory I think. Shepard's best intentions, but at what cost?

Destroy - Is the 2nd temptation. Kinda... The temptation lies in not picking destroy.

This is the one wherein Satan tells him to jump off a cliff and that angels will save him if he truly is the son of God. Satan attempts to put doubt in the heart of Jesus that he really is the son of God. Jesus didn’t have to jump to prove his trust in God; he demonstrated it by trusting in God’s word.
Here the Catalyst tries his very best to tell us that destroy will not work. First of all it'll kill the geth and EDI, then your children will create synthetics and everyone will die eventually. The exact opposite of what this franchise has been about. Faith in... let's call it humanity... to overcome the seemingly impossible. That against all odds, peace is possible.

Now replace "God" with what we have been working towards for 3 games. Destroying the reapers. And replace "Jesus/Son of God" with Shepard. Everything we know and trust in is "God." Along comes Starchild (aka Satan) to test us. He tells us that everything we know is wrong, and that he can give us a better way if we simply do as he wishes. He can't make us do anything, but he can twist words and influence us to pick the easy way out.

I've more than likely done a poor job in explaining the 3 temptations but it's late and im running on fumes. Turning rocks into bread applying to mass effect probably has some of you scratching your heads. But it's not about the act itself, it's about what the temptation represents. I believe the overall themes are the same in each scenario.


Last edited by clennon8 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
avatar
clennon8
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 135
Join date : 2013-01-09
Location : Earth

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by RavenEyry on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:40 pm

The jumping off a cliff one also relates to synthesis, due to the jumping of a cliff involved in it.
avatar
RavenEyry
Praetorian

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : Lincoln, England

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by clennon8 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:54 pm

Unfortunately, this thread has lost all traction on BSN. I can't really get anybody to talk about it any more, other than nincompoops like Dreman999 trying to tell me I'm seeing Mother Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich.

I think most Control and Synthesis folk are embarrassed to have the obvious religious themes wrapped up in their preferred ending pointed out to them.
avatar
clennon8
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 135
Join date : 2013-01-09
Location : Earth

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:59 pm

clennon8 wrote:Unfortunately, this thread has lost all traction on BSN. I can't really get anybody to talk about it any more, other than nincompoops like Dreman999 trying to tell me I'm seeing Mother Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich.

I think most Control and Synthesis folk are embarrassed to have the obvious religious themes wrapped up in their preferred ending pointed out to them.
Religion is also a very sensitivetopic, so they are wary to talk about it because they know someone of a different belief will insult them about it, which will lead to them insulting the insulter, which leads to viciouis fighting, which leads to bans.
avatar
Hanako Ikezawa
The Thorian

Posts : 3094
Join date : 2013-01-09

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by clennon8 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:05 pm

True. I did have to keep pointing out that the thread was meant as a literary discussion, not a religious debate. Because the latter would indeed devolve very quickly until the thread got locked.

I'm not even attempting to find a correlation between the religious beliefs of the player and the ending they prefer. I don't think there is such a correlation.
avatar
clennon8
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 135
Join date : 2013-01-09
Location : Earth

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Maximus on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:38 pm

I think I got something very interesting about Shepard in the rubble. Lemme put here my PM to DD, which I sent about month ago to him/her/it. Here it goes:

"Hello, DD! I found some interesting stuff that might support IT. You're collecting quotes from Mass Effect games, books etc. so i thought I could help too. Can't post it on BSN forum. Got banned long ago by Reaper Chris, permanently. Long Story.

I've been lurking on IT thread ever since Mark I, cause I can't afford buying new Mass Effect games just to post on BSN. That's way I'm sending it through priv message. Anyway, here you go:

Jesus said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go, that I may awake him out of his sleep."

Then the disciples looked at each other and some smiled, beacause they did not know Jesus had spoken in a figure. "Lord, if he sleeps, he shall do well."

So then Jesus spoke to them more plainly. "Lazarus is dead, yes...nevertheless, let us go to him."

- John's Gospel (paraphrase)

It's from the Bible. Found this accidently in one of Stephen King's books. Can't remember if you guys already discovered and discussed it.

Here's my analysis:

Lazarus = Shepard, because Shepard has been "reconstructed" by Project Lazarus. We know the obvious reference to bible made here by BioWare, and It's not the only time they did this. Take for example another reference - one about EDI quote about "Legion".

Jesus = Salvation, which might be something or someone that helps Shepard "wake up". Notice that Jesus says that Lazarus is "sleeping" and he have to "wake him up". If IT is true, Shepard is "sleeping" after he got hit by Harby's Deathray, and he's got to "wake up" from that nightmare.

Disciples = Lazaru's friends alias Shepard's Squad. They believe he died, but they are wrong, at least in Destroy ending, which is the only way to "wake up". Reference to scene on the Normandy, at the Memorial Wall...

I leave the rest for your own analysis. Have fun discussing it! Keep up the good work, ITers!"

Yeah, Shepard is dead my ass. References are obvious. Here's the evidence that he's just sleeping in a rubble. What else do you need? IT confirmed! ;>
<sarcaaaaasm>

_________________
"And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing. Now I know how you felt, my friend."
avatar
Maximus
Rampart Mech

Posts : 546
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : Europe

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Restrider on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:15 pm

I would like to point out that one of the regular posters in the BSN IT thread described the trilogy in a religous fashion, but in a different perspective than you might think. I think it was otter... not sure, I'll PM him anyways.

I'll encourage him to post his religous analysis here. Hope it will spark some nice discussion.
avatar
Restrider
Blood Pack Warrior

Posts : 934
Join date : 2013-01-07
Location : Democratic Republic of New Germany - Phase 1 Space

Back to top Go down

Updated post from BSN I did awhile ago, thoughts?

Post by smokingotter on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:48 pm

I had a lot of fun putting this together, and updating it. Some thoughts on religious symbolism, and indoctrination.

Mass Effect borrows heavily from Christian mythology. Jesus Christ is viewed as a Shepard who guides
Christians. Shepard died and came back to life just like Jesus did. In ME2 Shepard has 12 disciples. There is however a really interesting twist to the story-

I was wondering what the heck the Illusive Man/Indoctrinated eyes represent. Thinking about religious iconography I came to a conclusion. The reaper indoctrinated eyes are a reference to the holy trinity (and if so indoctrination is similar to that of being a "true believer"). Don't believe me Google image search holy trinity, or the son god, and the holy spirit, it's you can even see it represented in a lot of the paintings.

Above to the left Jesus, right God, and the bird is the holy spirit.

Does this shape look familiar?

Here is where Bioware turns the story on its head. Its the reapers who view themselves as God like. Indoctrination has the effect of making those under the reapers power view them with "supersititious awe." When TIM was hit with a reaper artifact he gained the "holy trinity" eyes. As the storyline progressed he started to have faith in the reapers, he was getting holy spirt (at least from the reapers point of view). The holy spirit or religious belief in the reapers=indoctrination.

Here's an interesting take. Shepard's renegade eyes are similar, but the writers choose to make his eyes upside down. What does a upside down Cross represent in Christian iconography? Typically the anti-Christ. The upside cross is offensive because it represents a rejection of Jesus and God. In Mass Effect those suffering indoctrination begin to look up at the reapers with "superstitious awe," the reapers are their gods (even the heretic geth worshiped the reapers.)

The twist is the hero is the anti-Christ in this analogy... or the anti-reaper. Look at Shepard's red eye implants. The holy trinity is upside down.

Back in the day Christians used to be persecuted in ancient Rome. Usually believers were executed by a carnifex or a roman executioner. Other times they were fed to the lions, a type of predator.

Carnifex... predator, sounds familiar. Oh yeah, the predator is Shepard's standard pistol during cut scenes, it magically changes into a carnifex at the end of ME3 (and if you choose destroy magically changes back to a predator)

Think about it. The reapers are trying to save organics from their sins. The sin is the creation of synthetic life. In order to save them they have to help organics "ascend" to reaper form. In order for them to do that they have to have faith in the reapers (indoctrination). The reapers have motivations that they claim are simply "beyond" our comprehension, much like how god works in mysterious ways.

Shepard is trying to undo that. Shepard allied him/herself with one of the seven princes of hell: a beast from the sea Leviathan (as described in Job and Isiah). Shepard carries the mark of the beast (Cerberus). He spreads destructive heresies (at least according to the reapers and indoctrinated agents) that the reapers can be fought if the galaxy unites. Shepard represents Chaos to the Reapers order. When Shepard chooses the renegade path his synthetic parts that show the upside down trinity burn brighter. Even the destroy choice at the very end of ME3 is renegade. It's not the choice of a true believer.

Shepard is the anti-reaper. Do not believe his heresies. Trust in the reaper and you will be reborn.

Magic!

Also I didn't come up with the joke: "Shepard died for your synthesis" but ... I'm sure Bioware was thinking that when they came up for the name of the green choice, very very clever Bioware.
avatar
smokingotter
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 143
Join date : 2013-01-07
Location : College Park, MD

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by clennon8 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:02 am

*Mind blown*

Nice job Otter. You tied together a few things I hadn't considered.
avatar
clennon8
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 135
Join date : 2013-01-09
Location : Earth

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Maximus on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:05 am

You little, smart Otter...
Well...Holy Crap! ;> Nice Job, Otter. Shepard's reversed pattern on his eyes always bothered me, coz i didn't know what that means. Now I do! Thanks!
By the way - that bird on the top screen is a Reaper! Kill it with fire!

_________________
"And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing. Now I know how you felt, my friend."
avatar
Maximus
Rampart Mech

Posts : 546
Join date : 2013-01-08
Age : 25
Location : Europe

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Fur28 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:19 am

@Otter
very good analogy, but the upside down cross only represents anti-christ in Popular culture
The Upside down cross represents not being good enough for Christ, Pete, one of hte disciples of Jesus, i dont remember if he was the first Pope or another Pete, asked to be crucified upside down because he didn´t believe he deservid to die like Jesus did
But well, now everybody believes, even religius people, that the upside down cross represents anti-christ so it works if that was the intestion of Bioware

Fur28
Commando

Posts : 1278
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 23
Location : Mexico

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by smokingotter on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:25 am

CorranusMaximus wrote:You little, smart Otter...
Well...Holy Crap! ;> Nice Job, Otter. Shepard's reversed pattern on his eyes always bothered me, coz i didn't know what that means. Now I do! Thanks!
By the way - that bird on the top screen is a Reaper! Kill it with fire!

One final but important point. Before we look at Sovereign (and most of the reapers) lets look at a couple of important Bible (don't worry this will be quick and I highlighted the good stuff)

1 Peter 5:6-7- Mighty hand of God

Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time, casting all your anxiety upon Him, because He cares for you.

John 10:27-29- - Eternal Life

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.


Now look at Sovereign .... looks like a hand doesn't it? I present to you the hand of God descending down from heaven!
avatar
smokingotter
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 143
Join date : 2013-01-07
Location : College Park, MD

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by smokingotter on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:29 am

Fur28 wrote:@Otter
very good analogy, but the upside down cross only represents anti-christ in Popular culture
The Upside down cross represents not being good enough for Christ, Pete, one of hte disciples of Jesus, i dont remember if he was the first Pope or another Pete, asked to be crucified upside down because he didn´t believe he deservid to die like Jesus did
But well, now everybody believes, even religius people, that the upside down cross represents anti-christ so it works if that was the intestion of Bioware

Thanks, I'm a sociology major so I can only be so accurate with my humanatees although I did do church when I was younger very briefly. Very interesting though. I guess it's a trade off doing these type of reference between what is accurate and what is commonly known in popular culture- accuracy vs. audience comprehension.

also thanks @Fur28 and CorranusMaximus

avatar
smokingotter
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 143
Join date : 2013-01-07
Location : College Park, MD

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Andromidius on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:30 am

RavenEyry wrote:The jumping off a cliff one also relates to synthesis, due to the jumping of a cliff involved in it.

It is a literal Leap of Faith.

While Mass Effect isn't 'religious' in that its trying to promote a religion, it does borrow heavily from certain themes. Namely its used symbolically in places, and sometimes even in-universe is used to great effect. Its very meta.

It also has a very anti-religious feel to me, in a way. Most of the symbolism and usage is negative. Dogma and blind belief, superstition and reverence are mostly seen as being bad. Even the most religious people in the game (Ashley, the Asari, the Hanar) are seen in negative lights at times (Ashley's somewhat bigotted attitudes seem to stem from her religious views, the Asari hid their dirtiest secrets inside one of their temples, and its revealed their Goddess was actually a Prothean, and the Hanar have shown their dogma can lead to them worshipping Reapers due to finding out about the nature of 'The Enkindlers'). Secular ideas are seen in a positive light, with acceptence of differences and strength through diversity being the main themes.

Just random food for thought. Not saying that Bioware are anti-religion, more that they are subverting a lot of storytelling tropes' use of religious themes. Infact, the secular concepts it puts forwards aren't anti-religious at all - merely anti one specific religion.
avatar
Andromidius
Admin

Posts : 1153
Join date : 2013-01-07

http://indoctrinationtheory.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by clennon8 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:39 am

I agree that Mass Effect largely feels anti-religious, which is what makes a literal interpretation of the endings all the harder to reconcile. Control and Synthesis, as I've tried to shed light on, really cram religious themes down your throat. It's the ultimate capitulation.
avatar
clennon8
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 135
Join date : 2013-01-09
Location : Earth

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by smokingotter on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:41 am

Andromidius wrote:
RavenEyry wrote:The jumping off a cliff one also relates to synthesis, due to the jumping of a cliff involved in it.

It is a literal Leap of Faith.

While Mass Effect isn't 'religious' in that its trying to promote a religion, it does borrow heavily from certain themes. Namely its used symbolically in places, and sometimes even in-universe is used to great effect. Its very meta.

It also has a very anti-religious feel to me, in a way. Most of the symbolism and usage is negative. Dogma and blind belief, superstition and reverence are mostly seen as being bad. Even the most religious people in the game (Ashley, the Asari, the Hanar) are seen in negative lights at times (Ashley's somewhat bigotted attitudes seem to stem from her religious views, the Asari hid their dirtiest secrets inside one of their temples, and its revealed their Goddess was actually a Prothean, and the Hanar have shown their dogma can lead to them worshipping Reapers due to finding out about the nature of 'The Enkindlers'). Secular ideas are seen in a positive light, with acceptence of differences and strength through diversity being the main themes.

Just random food for thought. Not saying that Bioware are anti-religion, more that they are subverting a lot of storytelling tropes' use of religious themes. Infact, the secular concepts it puts forwards aren't anti-religious at all - merely anti one specific religion.

I agree 100% and tried to make that case earlier but I'm not as articulate but yeah Mass Effect has a MASSIVE anti-religious message.

Indoctrination is like a analogy to how religion effects people's rational thoughts. People who are indoctrinated hear voices in their head in the same way people pray to God and hear God in their thoughts. The more people embrace religion the less rational they become "higher mental functioning decays."

Unlike Halo that made a very transparent case against religious dogma Bioware is making a more nuanced (but probably offensive to those who get it) message that religion can be insidious, can affect anyone, and can cause normal people to go off and do horrible things later in life.

Most indoctrinated people think they are doing what is right when they commit heinous acts, just like in the real world where we have religious zealots doing the same thing.



Last edited by smokingotter on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
smokingotter
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 143
Join date : 2013-01-07
Location : College Park, MD

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Fur28 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:42 am

just had a though what if Shepard if more representes as Jesus,
cant remember what story of the bible is, but there is one that tells what Jesus did the three days he was dead. He goes to the Underworld(Greek mythology), to free the souls and lead them to paradise(heaven), and locks Hades away, locking forever the old Gods.

What if the Reapers are Hades, who keeps the souls trapped, and Shepard by the Destroying the Reapers, metaphoracly frees them, also the rest of the living count as the people Hades(reapers) wont get
Just an analogy.

Fur28
Commando

Posts : 1278
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 23
Location : Mexico

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by clennon8 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:45 am

To be fair, some of the symbolism seems to conflict. Shepard = Christ. Shepard = anti-Christ. You can find both views represented in this thread. Still, on the whole I think there's a lot here that supports our premise. It's probably inevitable that there's going to be some garbling.
avatar
clennon8
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 135
Join date : 2013-01-09
Location : Earth

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Fur28 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:51 am

yeah the kind obvious parts of ME where they mock religión is sometimes offensive to me, i´m catholic, specially the Indoctrination = church controlling you, because i know the Church isn´t controlling me, i chose to believe in God.

But yeat there are in fact a lot of religious zealots in the world, who makes the world think that all religious people are the same, and specially hate when these zealots misinterpretate or use the Bible to hurt people.

Fur28
Commando

Posts : 1278
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 23
Location : Mexico

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by smokingotter on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:52 am

Fur28 wrote:just had a though what if Shepard if more representes as Jesus,
cant remember what story of the bible is, but there is one that tells what Jesus did the three days he was dead. He goes to the Underworld(Greek mythology), to free the souls and lead them to paradise(heaven), and locks Hades away, locking forever the old Gods.

What if the Reapers are Hades, who keeps the souls trapped, and Shepard by the Destroying the Reapers, metaphoracly frees them, also the rest of the living count as the people Hades(reapers) wont get
Just an analogy.

Interesting, might be how the crucible works (and a lot of Iters hypothesized) that the crucible affects indoctrination. Think about a large reaper, fusion of synthetic parts and organic minds, millions and billions dedicated to the reaper cause.

What if... even for a moment they all realized their individuality? What they were doing? Can reaper vessels function if their organic parts start to think for themselves?

Even the reaper troops, banshees for example. If you read the description for the Mass Effect wiki they move in constant pain meaning there is some consciousness going on (that sucks). What if they were freed from control?


Also food for thought how united are the reapers? We are lead to believe that the reapers have a collective hive mind. They might have a collective knowledge but do they all think alike. On Rannoch the reaper you kill as it is dying says "Harbinger speaks of you"

Harbinger speaks of you?! I thought you had a collective hivemind?! Nope apparently the reapers still get to communicate and gossip amongst each other. Otherwise why is Harbinger "speaking." Also the reaper on Rannoch is clearly trying to kill Shepard meaning that controlling Shepard vs. killing Shepard has not been 100% agreed on yet.

Also that sucks for the reapers on Rannoch and Tuchanka, were they supposed to let Shepard win and kill them?! I thought each was nation. So two nations agree to have it's entire population wiped out just so on the off chance Harbinger might be able to trick Shepard?

I really don't think the reapers are as united as we are led to believe /rant.

@Fur28 Now that you mention it the reapers tops kind of look like Pope hats

Harbinger: "You will attend Mass Shepard!"
Smokingotter: "I'm detecting an anti-Catholic feel from this game"

Edit: Omg Mass Effect.... Mass as in Catholic Mass? Fur28 they are picking on Catholics! Wat



Last edited by smokingotter on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:07 am; edited 3 times in total
avatar
smokingotter
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 143
Join date : 2013-01-07
Location : College Park, MD

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by draconian139 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:58 am

Another parallel between Shepard and the antichrist:In Revelations when the rise of the antichrist occurs peace is made on Earth and everyone is united under one rule(I've ran into people irl that are against any form of globalism just because of this). Shepard unites the galaxy in order to defeat the reapers.

Sidenote:In terms of religious themes...it wasn't intentional but I named my Shepard Blindé Shepard. Once I noticed the religious themes in ME2 it just sort of stood out to me.
avatar
draconian139
Abomination

Posts : 223
Join date : 2013-01-07

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Andromidius on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:02 am

Just to be clear, I didn't mean 'anti-religious' in an offensive manner. More anti-cult, or anti-dogma, or against the abuse of religious belief.

Belief itself is harmless, maybe even benefitial. Its when that belief gets twisted into being convinced to do something wrong that it becomes a problem.

Examples of that happening throughout human history have shown time and again how easy it is to achieve, and that often the people under that influence have no idea how evil their actions are.

To envoke Godwin, the Nazis before and during WW2 were viewed as morally upright and just people by the majority of Germans - even as the Jews were outcast and the country turned into a giant war machine to conquer its neighbours. Only after the fact, when all the dirty secrets and horrific actions the Nazis had done did the Germans realise what had happened, and now they've taken steps to avoid a similar repeat by banning Nazi symbols and propaganda in their country.

Someone undergoing Indoctrination would have no idea how far they'd fallen. Only during lucid moments can the strong willed realise how wrong they've been to listen to the Reapers, and the weak would never come to realise what tools they are to blind faith.
avatar
Andromidius
Admin

Posts : 1153
Join date : 2013-01-07

http://indoctrinationtheory.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Fur28 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:03 am

@Otter
Never though of that, maybe the reapers from Rannoch and Tuchanka, where like soldiers disobeying the orders of their superior officer, they believe that killing is better that capturing an enemy.

Damn now i´m curious to know the real "Intelligence", don really care of the why he reaps the universe, but how, and how much Indoctrinating power he has over the reapers, ans huskified species

Fur28
Commando

Posts : 1278
Join date : 2013-01-07
Age : 23
Location : Mexico

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by smokingotter on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:05 am

@Andromidius Yeah religion is cool with me as long as people are respectful to each other it's all good in da hood ;)

avatar
smokingotter
Thorian Creeper

Posts : 143
Join date : 2013-01-07
Location : College Park, MD

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Andromidius on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:06 am

smokingotter wrote:
I really don't think the reapers are as united as we are led to believe /rant.


I think I agree somewhat. They may have a concensus of some kind, but when independantly working they do whatever they feel is best.

They clearly each have their own 'personality' when we encounter them.
avatar
Andromidius
Admin

Posts : 1153
Join date : 2013-01-07

http://indoctrinationtheory.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: The parallels between religion and the indoctrination endings

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum