Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Rifneno on Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:44 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:They created a game with an open ending a game that asked more questions than it answered... unfortunately, to many people wanted to be given the answers, and not enough wanted to think about the questions.

And some of us just wanted the real ending we were promised they'd give us in 3, back in 2007.

They drag this out too long, and no one except the most hardcore fans are going to give a damn when they finally do reveal.  It may already be too late.

Oh yeah, and I almost forgot.

ElSuperGecko wrote:
Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense...

...and whether it's real or fake, it certainly makes you think.

Yeah, it makes me think of this.


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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Humakt on Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:12 pm

Rifneno wrote:

Yeah, it makes me think of this.


Check how many sections of Aria's speech scene is in the official trailer for Omega.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=28UgSPUkAss#t=70

It is perplexing how that could even pass Q&A since the scene was used in trailer.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Rifneno on Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:37 pm

Humakt83 wrote:Check how many sections of Aria's speech scene is in the official trailer for Omega.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=28UgSPUkAss#t=70

It is perplexing how that could even pass Q&A since the scene was used in trailer.

Huh. You know, that may actually be the problem. Imagine if rather than making it as one cutscene, they made a bunch of smaller ones for the purpose of the trailer. And then for the actual game, they just copy and pasted them together. That's probably exactly what the game engine would do. Scene A has her at point A, and then suddenly Scene B begins and she's supposed to be at point B. But she's not, because they were just different scenes pasted together by a dumbass. So she just sort of flies from point A to point B. It never told her to walk or run there, just BE there.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Master Blaster on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:14 pm

The fact the catalyst/ the intelligence takes the form of the little child is just so out of place. Almost everyone of the BSN thinks that the Reaper Leader taking form of the child is just normal because that Reaper on Earth must have randomly picked that boy to use later on to confront Shepard........Ya um this boy has been haunting Shepard since Earth, Three times Shepard see this boy in his/her nightmares, and not only that, but each nightmares get's worse.

First it was just Shepard, the boy, red lights, and trees.
Next dream it, everything from the first, yet now there are oily shadows, plus whispers of the dead.
In the last dream everything from the previous things happen, but now the child and Shepard embrace one another, and they both burn.I find it very symbolic that following this child will lead to his/her death.


Not to mention the boys picture is seen on the citadel. Who put the boy's picture up there, and why doesn't Shepard not react to the picture? I mean you would think he/she would because ;et's be honest Shepard is haunted by this boys death. Seeing a picture of the boy would only make things matter worse, unless Shepard is seeing things. I am not talking aobut full on hallucinations, but some smaller ones.

Like When on Earth thee boy is playing at a little roof top near where Shepard so happens to be. Now I could understand that because well it can happen, however there are NO adults, or other kids near the child..........doesn't that alarm you that no one but Shepard is supervising this kid? Moreover the fact that RIGHT when the Reapers invade Earth, the boy magically managed ON HIS OWN to get all the way across buildings, lasers, husk, and that of screaming people, without using an elevator, basically just climbed the fucking building. I say did not use an elevator because heck we don't even know if the buildings have elevators not to mention heck we don't even know how the hell it got to the other side of the building where Shepard was at, which looked pretty fucking far from where Shepard first saw the boy at.

Furthermore at the ending, The catalyst takes the form of the child for what ever reason. Makes no sense, but hey Shepard doesn't find that creepy at all, nor raise a question other wise. The fact that in Leviathan dlc, Leviathan takes the form of Ann Bryson by getting inside Shepard head makes the ending more clearer than just saying, " It went through the Reapers memory core, and randomly pick this child LUZ". Why because it gives further proof that the ending CAN be( it is for us) that it is all taking place inside Shepard's head, and the Reaper HAVE BREACHED Shepard's mind. It took a while, but now they are in. I honestly would argue with anyone who doesn't deni that, while Shepard is the Hero of this story, Shepard is still human, and Shepard can still be CORRUPTED/fall. Shepard is not a god, nor this over powered hero, but a simply soldier who does the impossible by making hard choices, and that of having friends at his/her side. It is because of this the Reapers are very curious about Shepard, because they never seen an organic like Shepard. Tis true that people may argue that, " well if Shepard beats Indoctrination, where many people failed to do so, it means Shepard is over powered" Not really. There are many times through out the story, that people have been combating Indoctrination, and managing to BREAK FREE even if it is just for a moment. The fact that Grayson is a prime example of one fighting Indoctrination/has been exposed and broke free for a bit proves that Indoctrination is not FULLY on Indoctrination, more like so long as you have just a small portion of " HUMANITY( or strong willpower mind)you can basically fight it and beat it, even if it is just for a little while, but you have to FIGHT, and not give into fear/ the Reapers way of thinking. you have to tell them to shove it, and continue on the path you FORGE, as did many others.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Master Blaster on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:24 pm

Also another thing that alarms you at the end is that....why didn't the Reaper ASSUME control over TIM's corpse? They did it with Saren in ME1, and that was a very DO or DIE battle for the Reapers/ the organics of the galaxy. yet they did not. Which further put into mind that this is all some kind of test/ a game of chest. I mean we are battling for Shepard's mind. We are playing against the Reapers in this game at the end, or well since ME1. Shepard is our king and everyone else we have meet/helped are the other chest sets. At the last stage of the game, we are either at the CHECK MATE stage, or the CHECK stage. The very wrong move we make can end the game for Shepard, however I believe just like chest depending on which way you go, you may get out of the CHECK stage and then turn the tables around.

Anyways the fact that The catalyst NEEDS Shepard to make this choice even alarms all of us. The fact that the catalyst says " Yes but it would have NEVER worked because WE already controlled him" Ya what's with all this WE CRAP. It's just YOU and not the Reapers. The Reapers are just slaves to your will, or are you telling us that The Reapers are MORE than just salves, and are like YOUR Partners. Also doesn't that seem odd that TIM couldn't do it because they already controlled him, but Shepard can....ya that should be a clear sign that if you pick Control the Reapers basically controlled you into picking control, and now Shepard is theirs.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Raistlin Majere on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:28 pm

Master Blaster:

I am split on the Shepard breaking Indoctrination thing.

Even those who broke Indoctrination have only done so for a short time, a quick burst of will before falling back into what they were before. It is essentially shown as being irreversible once it takes hold, continuing until the subjects death or neural decay.

As such Shepard breaking free, as in truly breaking free would be pretty incredible.

However as Thane says in ME2: "You have made a career out of doing the impossible."

It would not be unusual for Shepard to succeed where others failed, in fact it would only cement why the Reapers have reason to be interested in a single small living being.

But I also think that this time Shepard should maybe not get away scott free. It is such a big thing, such a deadly weapon he is being subjected to and I just find it hard to imagine him getting away without some long lasting consequences.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Master Blaster on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:34 pm

Also I don't by what the Catalyst tells Shepard in Destroy. The fact that is should have NO fucking FORESIGHT on what would happen, since it just HAD the crucible for more than 5 fucking minutes ago, and that of knowing what would happen in EACH ENDING, except REFUSE, that is Basically tells you what would happen is all the more reason to not by this bull crap. Sure people are that " Well in Destroy you take the child's advice, and pick Destroy......" NO NO NO NO NO! NO! We came here to kill the Reapers, and not SAVE them. Not MATTER WHAT THE COST IS, we MUST stop the Reapers, but not in SAVING THEM. For to long the galaxy has been plagued by the Reapers, and so many races, and organics AND synthetics have given their lives to STOP the Reapers. it's time for them to die, regardless on what the catalyst tells you about Destroy, or even not believing in the catalyst.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Master Blaster on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:41 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:Master Blaster:

I am split on the Shepard breaking Indoctrination thing.

Even those who broke Indoctrination have only done so for a short time, a quick burst of will before falling back into what they were before. It is essentially shown as being irreversible once it takes hold, continuing until the subjects death or neural decay.

As such Shepard breaking free, as in truly breaking free would be pretty incredible.

However as Thane says in ME2: "You have made a career out of doing the impossible."

It would not be unusual for Shepard to succeed where others failed, in fact it would only cement why the Reapers have reason to be interested in a single small living being.

But I also think that this time Shepard should maybe not get away scott free. It is such a big thing, such a deadly weapon he is being subjected to and I just find it hard to imagine him getting away without some long lasting consequences.

I am pretty sure Shepard would be scard for life. I mean Shepard is human. People may argue Shepard is more than a human, but Shepard is just a human. However Shepard has US the player, his/her little voice telling him/her what to do. It is because of this the Reapers are having a hard time Indoctrinating Shepard. Now if Shepard didn't have us Shepard would have been long gone. However Shepard does, and our actions reflect on what Shepard will act/play out.

Also this could be the first test for Shepard. I mean who is to say the Reapers may further plague Shepard. For all we know Mass effect 4 may be just Shepard playing as someone else, and slowly and slowly you/Shepard ( although in a different body/voice) may uncover the TRUTH behind this illusion of a dream. I mean if you pick Destroy it would make sense, and the Breath scene would make sense because if ME4 has a new hero, yet it's really Shepard just that Shepard thinks he/she is someone else would make it very interesting. I mean it's a win win. The fans get to HAVE a new hero for a bit, and the at the end of the game, the players find out you have been Shepard the whole time. And thus and extended breath scene is shown at the end of the game, IF you uncovered the clues behind this illusion.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Master Blaster on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:48 pm

Ahhhh it makes sense. " tell me another story about THE SHEPARD."

Let's say this. ME4 new story, new characters, and new villein/hero. Now as the story progresses the main character has weird visions that he/she can not explain. some are images from ME1, ME2, and ME3. Now as this happens you are lead to believe you may have some connection to this old war hero Shepard. Now as you play as the new Hero, things start to get weirder and weirder as you progress. There are whispers, and the feeling your being watched, and that there is something a foot that you can not explain yet. Now when you get to the end, the player may be faced with either staying in this illusion, OR finding out the truth. If you find out the truth, your new hero IS in fact Shepard, just Shepard's memories where destroyed in a sense, and you had to reconstruct Shepard, just as a new person in general. Thus roles in the breath scene from ME3. A new Shepard is born, and you can either import or play as a new Shepard.

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Autobots transform and role out!

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by ElSuperGecko on Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:22 pm

Rifneno wrote:
They drag this out too long, and no one except the most hardcore fans are going to give a damn when they finally do reveal.  It may already be too late.

Nah, that's just hyperbole. Bungie left Master Chief floating out there in space for the best part of a console generation, while showing the war from a different angle with ODST, venturing off into RTS with Halo Wards and jumping back in time with Reach. They also had a generation gap between arguably the biggest and most hated cliffhanger ending of all time in Halo 2 and it's direct sequel. That didn't kill their franchise, and this won't kill Bioware's franchise either.

Rifneno wrote:
Yeah, it makes me think of this.

Touche. And without wanting to make excuses for a ridiculous and wholly unforgivable glitch (especially since AFAIK it was never fixed), that's the kindof shit that happens when you have to suspend your DLC schedule in order to placate the raving unimaginative masses with hastily thrown together free DLC.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Rifneno on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:55 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:
Rifneno wrote:
They drag this out too long, and no one except the most hardcore fans are going to give a damn when they finally do reveal.  It may already be too late.

Nah, that's just hyperbole.  Bungie left Master Chief floating out there in space for the best part of a console generation, while showing the war from a different angle with ODST, venturing off into RTS with Halo Wards and jumping back in time with Reach.  They also had a generation gap between arguably the biggest and most hated cliffhanger ending of all time in Halo 2 and it's direct sequel.  That didn't kill their franchise, and this won't kill Bioware's franchise either.

The major difference is that Halo's main feature was gameplay, not story.  People may have liked the story, but it wasn't the thing that kept most of their audience coming back for more.  Let me tell you, people aren't coming back to ME for its stellar gameplay.


Touche.  And without wanting to make excuses for a ridiculous and wholly unforgivable glitch (especially since AFAIK it was never fixed), that's the kindof shit that happens when you have to suspend your DLC schedule in order to placate the raving unimaginative masses with hastily thrown together free DLC.

So consumers should just be happy with whatever absolute shit companies give them, regardless of how terrible it is and how much the company lied about it to sell the product?  Bullshit.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by TurianRebel212 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:14 am

The thing about Halo and chiefs narrative arc was it was given conclusion within the established lore and major conflict of Halo (The Flood, gravemind, and of course the human/covenant war). Now that they're entering the Forerunner trilogy and the Didact and promethean stuff they have new material.

Unlike Mass Effect, in which the ending of ME3 and the "end" of Shepard's narrative arc within the MEU, was left interpretive and up for speculations. It was executed in such a manner as to leave room for such a wide range of speculations and "theories". The half ass execution of the EC just fueled more of these things, lol.

And I agree with Rif, they might have dragged this out to long and may have just written themselves into a corner and may just let Shepard die and act like ME1, ME2 and ME3 didn't happen.

And if that's the case then BioWare can take a hike and I'll be done with them. Hell, it seems like EA is wanting to destroy my favorite Devs. They have successfully made me loathe Battlefield and Dice, and now BioWare is along the ride for the EA Rape Train.

I can't wait for Witcher 3 and then Bungie may save the FPS market with destiny. Although activision might herpaderp them to death too.

Infinity Ward part 2???
I hope not.
But....... Probably.



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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by ElSuperGecko on Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:45 pm

Rifneno wrote:
The major difference is that Halo's main feature was gameplay, not story.  People may have liked the story, but it wasn't the thing that kept most of their audience coming back for more.  Let me tell you, people aren't coming back to ME for its stellar gameplay.

I disagree. Personally, I thought the gameplay in ME3 was great, better than a lot dedicated mass-market shooters out there. The combat mechanics were greatly improved from the previous two games, even if they were also dumbed down somewhat with the removal of exploration, hacking/decryption mini games etc.

The multiplayer was a pleasant surprise as well, and one of the most enjoyable co-operative multiplayer experiences I've had since the advent of online gaming. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion, either, judging from the overall multiplayer stats. It will be interesting to see how Bioware continues to develop the gameplay, especially if we end up seeing PvP.

So consumers should just be happy with whatever absolute shit companies give them, regardless of how terrible it is and how much the company lied about it to sell the product?  Bullshit.

Yes, that is bullshit. Especially considering it's not actually what I said, or even implied for that matter. But don't let that get in the way of a good old-fashioned angry honey badger topic derailment.

And with that, back to the Catalyst's rambling. Full of shite? Yes? Yes.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Rifneno on Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:25 pm

ElSuperGecko wrote:I disagree.  Personally, I thought the gameplay in ME3 was great, better than a lot dedicated mass-market shooters out there.  The combat mechanics were greatly improved from the previous two games, even if they were also dumbed down somewhat with the removal of exploration, hacking/decryption mini games etc.

The hacking and decryption minigames were nothing but a waste of time anyway. I literally cannot remember ever failing either of them and I've played through ME2 at a bare minimum of 25 times. They were nothing but a pointless time sink. Their removal was fixing a problem, not "dumbing down."

The multiplayer was a pleasant surprise as well, and one of the most enjoyable co-operative multiplayer experiences I've had since the advent of online gaming.  I don't think I'm alone in that opinion, either, judging from the overall multiplayer stats.  It will be interesting to see how Bioware continues to develop the gameplay, especially if we end up seeing PvP.

Bullshit. ME3's MP sucked. All it had was horde mode. It was the same repetitive crap every time, and even its biggest fanboys say its loot system was absolutely terrible. It was utterly broken on Xbox 360 and PS3 where the missile glitch remained for the majority of the game's lifespan and from what I've heard from console players, PUGs were more likely to have a glitcher than they were to be an honest game. The vanguard glitch also persisted just about forever, making an entire class borderline unplayable if you weren't hosting. Eric Fagnan is mathematically retarded and the weekly tunings often made less sense than a mentally ill hobo screaming about the morlocks stealing his whiskey.

THEY ADDED VOLUS AND AWAKENED COLLECTORS. Anyone who thinks that's okay should be legally banned from reproducing.

Yes, that is bullshit.  Especially considering it's not actually what I said, or even implied for that matter.  But don't let that get in the way of a good old-fashioned angry honey badger topic derailment.

And with that, back to the Catalyst's rambling.  Full of shite?  Yes?  Yes.

Yes, even more full of shit than you. Derailment? Have you noticed you're also talking about a lot of stuff that's not Starbinger related? Yes, you did imply it. The fact you spoke negatively of the the audience complaints, calling them "raving unimaginative masses" and that you talk about it as if it's making excuses for BW shows you think they shouldn't have been forced to fix their mistake. They goddamn well should have. The problem with EC isn't that they had to make it, it's that it didn't fix the real problems.

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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by ElSuperGecko on Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:26 pm

Rifneno wrote:
The hacking and decryption minigames were nothing but a waste of time anyway.  I literally cannot remember ever failing either of them and I've played through ME2 at a bare minimum of 25 times.  They were nothing but a pointless time sink.  Their removal was fixing a problem, not "dumbing down."

Hooray for opinions. Just like assholes,everyone's got one.

Bullshit.  ME3's MP sucked...

Hooray for opinions, again.

Yes, even more full of shit than you. Derailment?  Have you noticed you're also talking about a lot of stuff that's not Starbinger related?  Yes, you did imply it.  The fact you spoke negatively of the the audience complaints, calling them "raving unimaginative masses" and that you talk about it as if it's making excuses for BW shows you think they shouldn't have been forced to fix their mistake.  They goddamn well should have.  The problem with EC isn't that they had to make it, it's that it didn't fix the real problems.

Oh, dem honey badgers. Being insulted by you is like getting gummed by a kitten Rif - if it wasn't so funny it would be sad. Do you actually read back what you type, or is it just stream-of-conciousness ranting? Yes, of course I have noticed that in replying to other people I've drifted off topic, hence the fairly pointless and half-hearted attempt to get back on track.


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Re: Literally Everything The Catalyst Tells You Is Fallacious

Post by Rifneno on Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:04 am

>These things were good.
>*long list of reasons they weren't*
>Well that's just like, your opinion man

Clearly you were captain of the debate team.

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