Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:37 pm

Rifneno wrote:Now I almost wish my fucked up back could stand being in a shitty movie theater seat for 2 hours.  Shame.

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing Handjob die a horrible death.
Handjob?
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Maximus on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:26 am

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
Rifneno wrote:Now I almost wish my fucked up back could stand being in a shitty movie theater seat for 2 hours.  Shame.

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing Handjob die a horrible death.
Handjob?


Handcock maybe? 0,o

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Rifneno on Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:33 am

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
Rifneno wrote:Now I almost wish my fucked up back could stand being in a shitty movie theater seat for 2 hours.  Shame.

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing Handjob die a horrible death.
Handjob?
Picard Facepalm

Agent Victoria Hand.  The woman trying to kill the Coulson's team and who is quite possibly the Clairvoyant.  Do try to keep up.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:59 am

Rifneno wrote:
Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
Rifneno wrote:Now I almost wish my fucked up back could stand being in a shitty movie theater seat for 2 hours.  Shame.

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing Handjob die a horrible death.
Handjob?
Picard Facepalm

Agent Victoria Hand.  The woman trying to kill the Coulson's team and who is quite possibly the Clairvoyant.  Do try to keep up.
Never heard her referred to as Handjob. You can't expect people who don't know your nicknames for people to know whom you are referring to.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Rifneno on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:03 am

Her name is "Hand."  A handjob is a sexual act.  And thus an insult.

If you could not figure it out, you are profoundly retarded.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:07 am

Rifneno wrote:Her name is "Hand."  A handjob is a sexual act.  And thus an insult.

If you could not figure it out, you are profoundly retarded.
I don't insult people so I don't immediately come up with demeaning terms for them. Thus I'm not of the mindset to recognize when others do it for the first time in my presence.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:47 am

That was actually an incredibly easy one.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:23 am

Speaking of good agents and bad agents, I really hope John Garrett is on the good side. Bill Paxton is awesome as him and I would hate for him to be a villain.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Rifneno on Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:10 am

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
Rifneno wrote:Her name is "Hand."  A handjob is a sexual act.  And thus an insult.

If you could not figure it out, you are profoundly retarded.
I don't insult people so I don't immediately come up with demeaning terms for them. Thus I'm not of the mindset to recognize when others do it for the first time in my presence.
I don't drink, but I can still tell when someone is falling down drunk.  Stop making excuses for the fact you're a moron.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:26 am

Rifneno wrote:
Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
Rifneno wrote:Her name is "Hand."  A handjob is a sexual act.  And thus an insult.

If you could not figure it out, you are profoundly retarded.
I don't insult people so I don't immediately come up with demeaning terms for them. Thus I'm not of the mindset to recognize when others do it for the first time in my presence.
I don't drink, but I can still tell when someone is falling down drunk.  Stop making excuses for the fact you're a moron.
I've never drunken alcohol either. I'm not making an excuse, but explaining how my thought process did not reach your conclusion. Making an excuse would be like "Oh, yeah I would have gotten it if *insert excuse here*.".

Now are we going to continue pursuing this pointless discussion, or shall we actually be productive in this thread? I prefer the latter myself.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by RavenEyry on Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:28 pm

I didn't get it either, but I didn't know that woman's name.

I've just been referring to her as 'the bitch'.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Maximus on Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:14 pm

Handcock sounds better...

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Fur28 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:20 am

Spoiler:
in the middle of Ward's fight, when he sees the knife, does his eyes look weird or electronical to you? I feel there was a lot of focus in his eyes, the last scene. is the Clairboyant controlling him? D:
And RIP Handjob, it sucks not knowing who to thrust

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:03 am

Spoiler:
Ha! Knew it! Wow. It was even a long shot. (You won't believe it now anyway because I didn't post it here :S)

Ward was a HYDRA sleeper agent. It was the only way to make him interesting. I even noted earlier here at home that even his whole facial profile/movements can work for both a good and bad guy (like Shepard's can and does in trailers). This was the long shot one that I was stunned to see was correct. It wasn't even a prediction, but a feeling that I've considered before. More of a detection of writing 'strategy' than an in-narrative thing though. I'm so amazed I was correct on that hunch/

Garrett was an outright prediction though. Not just by me and others, but by pretty much any viewer paying attention. He was featured in enough ways that it would seem to be easy to position him as a sleeper by the writers. Most of my logical attention was on him, but like I said, I also expressed a feeling about Ward over here.

Hand was the clear red herring (lol down to her hair highlights). IF she was the sleeper and the episode followed only that, then I would have had to resign to the proof that SHIELD will never be anything more than simplistic and bland in plot development :(. But she wasn't! Woooo. :)

Sadly, I have almost no clue what's next. Coulson's arc is just.. ahh I don't know. HYDRA is looking for something about him, but I don't know what. Could have something to do with aliens? lol idk....

Maybe Winter Soldier has clues, but I haven't seen it yet.

The next 1-2 episodes will likely chart out the next plot arc and give more clear hints on what's up.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:12 am

Fur28 wrote:
Spoiler:
in the middle of Ward's fight, when he sees the knife, does his eyes look weird or electronical to you? I feel there was a lot of focus in his eyes, the last scene. is the Clairboyant controlling him? D:
And RIP Handjob, it sucks not knowing who to thrust

Spoiler:
I just watched the scene again and any flash I saw looked normal (just eyeballs facing the camera).

I don't think Coulson is being controlled in the direct sense. Just monitored and manipulated in several ways by several entities/factions (mainly 2, but who knows what else haha).

Hand was somewhat stupid there. Don't just kill someone when you have the distinct change to gain super valuable information from them, regardless of vengeance (of course I haven't been tested in that in real life, but in RPGs I tend to go that way, like with at least being tempted to keep Oleg alive in ME3).

I wonder if Ward is at least somewhat under the influence of a brainwashing? Maybe? *shrug*

EDIT:

Spoiler:

To clarify a couple things:
1. Coulson may still be open to direct control by someone. For all we know, a key word could turn him into a true sleeper agent. We just don't know.
2. Ward never said "Hail HYDRA", and the acting between all previous episodes til this last scene with him seem to tell their own story. He may be indoctrinated into HYDRA, but he also clearly has been softened *slightly* by his experience with Coulson's team.

And I also have another crazy idea just now :P. Part of it involves Coulson's team going highlyyyy renegade. Fitz's first real killing, and Coulson's "Survive" line act as some of this foreshadowing.
I also also have concerns about Simmons :(.
Pretty much everyone is a spy lolz. Oh wait, of course they are.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:28 am

Oneee last bit

Spoiler:

-Garrett may not be the actual Clairvoyant
-Hand may still be a deeeep cover HYDRA agent
-Simmons may be the actual Clairvoyant? I know, a stretch. She's somethin though.
-Ward may be misdirection. Coulson may be onto Hand (I mean really, look at her comic universe history) and may have asked Ward to be a deeeep cover SHIELD agent into HYDRA. Hand may have wanted Garrett dead because
1)SHIELD won't gain info from him, ties up loose ends
2)He failed in his job (Garrett may not be aware of Hand's deeper role)

The Simmons stuff, whatever it means, is just weird though. I mean, considering stuff like that episode where she was dying. :S So yeah, I dunno about her.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:01 am

Spoiler:
Well, that episode surely pissed me off. Of course the only non-Coulson team member agent of SHIELD I like turns out to be the freaking villain. The only positive side is that Garrett at least makes a much better Clairvoyant than Hand would ever do. That said, I still think he is still just a pawn. With every movie and episode, I personally think the "Clairvoyant=Ultron" theory gains more traction, especially with these last couple episodes and the bombshells in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:16 am

SwobyJ wrote:
Spoiler:

Sadly, I have almost no clue what's next. Coulson's arc is just.. ahh I don't know. HYDRA is looking for something about him, but I don't know what. Could have something to do with aliens? lol idk....

Maybe Winter Soldier has clues, but I haven't seen it yet.

The next 1-2 episodes will likely chart out the next plot arc and give more clear hints on what's up.
I can say that no, Captain America: The Winter Soldier doesn't really give any insight to the Agents of SHIELD series other than what was shown in this episode.

Also I believe this was where the original show was going to stop but then they got approved for like twice as many episodes due to popularity so that's why I think they added the plot twists at the end, mainly
Spoiler:
Garrett escaping.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:20 am

Actually..

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Agents-SHIELD-Spoilers-Hydra-Clairvoyant-1080215.aspx

Spoiler:

If people were to go back and watch past episodes, what breadcrumbs would they now spot knowing that Ward was actually a bad guy the whole time?
Bell: In upcoming episodes, we'll get into the agenda of why he was on the team. There's a very specific reason that he's there. In terms of Ward making himself invisible, Coulson loves projects. He likes to take people and fix them up. Ward was a project. Who was the biggest threat on the plane? Who could do the worst damage to him? May [Ming-Na Wen]. He seduced her and slept with her. Who was the unknown on the plane? Skye [Chloe Bennet]. He became her S.O. How do you endure yourself to a team? You do something selfless. He jumped out of the plane after Simmons [Elizabeth Henstridge]. If he had failed to save Simmons, he'd be OK. He had a parachute. But he did all these things along the way to neutralize or take the stink off or to bring people to his side in each of those instances. Those are just some of the examples. There was a method to the madness.
Loeb: Take a look at Episodes 6, 7 and 8. In Episode 6, he jumps out of a plane and saves Simmons. So he's now endeared himself to everybody there, but the one person he's not endeared himself to is Fitz (Iain De Caestecker). How are you going to fix that? Well, you go on a mission with Fitz and make Fitz feel like he's the hero of the story. Now, all of a sudden, the one guy who didn't like you likes you more than he ever did. Now there's a bromance going on. Then he gets a hold of the berserker staff and we see a very, very dark side of this guy. But, fortunately, it's not something that you hold onto very hard. When he winds up in bed with Lorelei (Elena Satine) and she talks about how different he is, again, those were little things along the way that hopefully when people and go back and look, they'll do, "Wow, it really was there."
Bell: Before you flip somebody, before you do something different with them, you have to get the audience to know them. Because we were on network, we brought Skye on as a civilian. She comes in with our audience who might not know the Marvel world. We grow her out, she becomes a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent. The idea is to bring the audience along with her so just as she's feeling part of the team, it all gets blown up.

Spoiler:
This seems to immediately disprove the 'Ward is just a deep cover agent' line of thought, unless something big changes.
Or..lol... he's both. A HYDRA agent who is asked by Coulson(+Hand? Eh?) to be a spy in HYDRA 0_0. What would that make it? Triple agent? Quadruple agent? A really confused man?


Last edited by SwobyJ on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:23 am

SwobyJ wrote:Actually..

Spoiler:

If people were to go back and watch past episodes, what breadcrumbs would they now spot knowing that Ward was actually a bad guy the whole time?
Bell: In upcoming episodes, we'll get into the agenda of why he was on the team. There's a very specific reason that he's there. In terms of Ward making himself invisible, Coulson loves projects. He likes to take people and fix them up. Ward was a project. Who was the biggest threat on the plane? Who could do the worst damage to him? May [Ming-Na Wen]. He seduced her and slept with her. Who was the unknown on the plane? Skye [Chloe Bennet]. He became her S.O. How do you endure yourself to a team? You do something selfless. He jumped out of the plane after Simmons [Elizabeth Henstridge]. If he had failed to save Simmons, he'd be OK. He had a parachute. But he did all these things along the way to neutralize or take the stink off or to bring people to his side in each of those instances. Those are just some of the examples. There was a method to the madness.
Loeb: Take a look at Episodes 6, 7 and 8. In Episode 6, he jumps out of a plane and saves Simmons. So he's now endeared himself to everybody there, but the one person he's not endeared himself to is Fitz (Iain De Caestecker). How are you going to fix that? Well, you go on a mission with Fitz and make Fitz feel like he's the hero of the story. Now, all of a sudden, the one guy who didn't like you likes you more than he ever did. Now there's a bromance going on. Then he gets a hold of the berserker staff and we see a very, very dark side of this guy. But, fortunately, it's not something that you hold onto very hard. When he winds up in bed with Lorelei (Elena Satine) and she talks about how different he is, again, those were little things along the way that hopefully when people and go back and look, they'll do, "Wow, it really was there."
Bell: Before you flip somebody, before you do something different with them, you have to get the audience to know them. Because we were on network, we brought Skye on as a civilian. She comes in with our audience who might not know the Marvel world. We grow her out, she becomes a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent. The idea is to bring the audience along with her so just as she's feeling part of the team, it all gets blown up.

Where's that interview from? I assume it is an interview.

Edit: Nevermind, you added the link.
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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:37 am

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/09/agents-of-shield-postmortem-ward/

Spoiler:

LOEB: And part of what’s so much fun is being able to go back and look at the pilot and see where Coulson says to Ward, “we haven’t scores like yours since Romanov.” Now, at the time, you probably thought “oh, that’s a really good spy.” But then if you think about what Natasha has done with her life and the number of identities she’s had and the number of people that she’s burned along the way, that may have not been the best compliment to give somebody.

BELL: And then even when he was with Lorelei, and she was talking about the darkness inside of him and the other qualities, she saw something that a lot of other people hadn’t seen. So we feel like we laid things out pretty well. Because you don’t want to over tip your hand, but we think people are pretty smart, and you can look back and go, “oh yeah, it was all there the whole time if I had looked.” And what’s fun now that you’ve seen 17, watch it again, or watch 16 again, and every look Ward does seems to have a double meaning.

I love that. Give me an example of something that might be a little less “obvious” than the Romanov line that could be fun for viewers to realize.
LOEB: We’ll give you one that’s a lot of fun, and that’s in “Seeds,” episode 12. Towards the very end, there’s a lovely, heartwarming moment where Skye is standing in front of the fallen S.H.I.E.L.D. agents through the decades. Watch that scene, and keep an eye on Ward.
BELL: And what she’s saying as you’re looking at him.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Rifneno on Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:11 pm

Why are you guys spoiler tagging stuff for the show? It just makes the thread harder to read. You shouldn't be reading the thread if you're not caught up on the series. Marvel movies like Winter Soldier, sure, but the show itself?

SwobyJ wrote:Ha! Knew it! Wow. It was even a long shot. (You won't believe it now anyway because I didn't post it here :S)

Naw, I believe it. You cling enough crazy at the wall, something is bound to stick sooner or later. Law of averages.

1. Coulson may still be open to direct control by someone. For all we know, a key word could turn him into a true sleeper agent. We just don't know.

If HYDRA had their claws in his resurrection to the point that they'd have that stuff put in his head, they wouldn't be so desperately trying to get basic information about the resurrection. Coulson's clean, at least as far as HYDRA is concerned.

2. Ward never said "Hail HYDRA", and the acting between all previous episodes til this last scene with him seem to tell their own story. He may be indoctrinated into HYDRA, but he also clearly has been softened *slightly* by his experience with Coulson's team.

Somebody remind me what the fuck the point was in his blooming relationship with Skye was if he's just going to switch sides? It's not like he can just switch again because he's fallen for her. He's passed a moral event horizon. There's no redemption for what he did at the end of that episode. The only way I can see it working out is him turning on them when they try to kill or hurt her and then dying or going to the icebox himself. Which is, to say the least, terribly cliche.

And I also have another crazy idea just now :P. Part of it involves Coulson's team going highlyyyy renegade. Fitz's first real killing, and Coulson's "Survive" line act as some of this foreshadowing.

Yah! Take that, wall! *flings a ball of crazy*

-Simmons may be the actual Clairvoyant? I know, a stretch. She's somethin though.

Crazy Cannon is locked on target! Open fire!

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:07 pm

If HYDRA had their claws in his resurrection to the point that they'd have that stuff put in his head, they wouldn't be so desperately trying to get basic information about the resurrection. Coulson's clean, at least as far as HYDRA is concerned.

Likely, yeah.

Somebody remind me what the fuck the point was in his blooming relationship with Skye was if he's just going to switch sides? It's not like he can just switch again because he's fallen for her. He's passed a moral event horizon. There's no redemption for what he did at the end of that episode. The only way I can see it working out is him turning on them when they try to kill or hurt her and then dying or going to the icebox himself. Which is, to say the least, terribly cliche.

Something stupid like letting Skye go when/if she's imprisoned by HYDRA. I dun like it :(

Yah! Take that, wall! *flings a ball of crazy*

Well what I mean is that our agents may have to go even more off the grid after Hand dies, and may have to ally themselves with Centipede (this would require Centipede to break off from HYDRA respectively though, something we've only seen light hints of at most).

At the very least, Coulson's team is going to have to isolate themselves for their own survival, and perform less acts of authority and more acts of autonomy (aka renegade). Many of these acts of autonomy will be akin to the T.A.H.I.T.I. approach of killing instead of icing/sneaking.

Crazy Cannon is locked on target! Open fire!

Yeah I don't really think this one either. Would be neat if both Fitz and Simmons were part of something though, given what happened to Ward's position on the show :) The show first makes us think that Fitz and Simmons are wanting their stuff secret for good reasons, but at least Simmons is starting to be given suspicious lines.


The Ward 'feeling' was pretty much the only thing I had a feeling about though. I was sure that Garrett was HYDRA and that Mai was genuine (so I'll actually be surprised if either turn out to be otherwise).
In SHIELD, I don't throw nearly as much crazy at the wall as I do with Mass Effect. My last posts here were the most I've done about that... ever, by far :P.

The spoilers were just to match Selim. In retrospect, not the smartest move/reasoning.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:18 pm

Oh, but here's some Crazy.
Spoiler:
HYDRA wants to find out about Coulson simply because they want to resurrect Red Skull. There will be a tie-in to Asgardian story (as well as other Avengers stuff) in how the other parts of this plan will be achieved. The Coulson stuff is just part of a larger plan that would be more greatly addressed in a film.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:47 pm

Rifneno wrote:
If HYDRA had their claws in his resurrection to the point that they'd have that stuff put in his head, they wouldn't be so desperately trying to get basic information about the resurrection.  Coulson's clean, at least as far as HYDRA is concerned.
I agree with you. In spy movies and shows, the one character you can trust 99% of the time of being good is the main character, which is Coulson. Add that with as you said them needing to figure out what happened to Coulson and poof, suspicions gone on Coulson being a HYRDA agent.

SwobyJ wrote:

Well what I mean is that our agents may have to go even more off the grid after Hand dies, and may have to ally themselves with Centipede (this would require Centipede to break off from HYDRA respectively though, something we've only seen light hints of at most).

At the very least, Coulson's team is going to have to isolate themselves for their own survival, and perform less acts of authority and more acts of autonomy (aka renegade). Many of these acts of autonomy will be akin to the T.A.H.I.T.I. approach of killing instead of icing/sneaking.

Yeah I don't really think this one either. Would be neat if both Fitz and Simmons were part of something though, given what happened to Ward's position on the show :) The show first makes us think that Fitz and Simmons are wanting their stuff secret for good reasons, but at least Simmons is starting to be given suspicious lines.


The Ward 'feeling' was pretty much the only thing I had a feeling about though. I was sure that Garrett was HYDRA and that Mai was genuine (so I'll actually be surprised if either turn out to be otherwise).
In SHIELD, I don't throw nearly as much crazy at the wall as I do with Mass Effect. My last posts here were the most I've done about that... ever, by far :P.

The spoilers were just to match Selim. In retrospect, not the smartest move/reasoning.
Centipede isn't a faction, but a project. I know what you mean, the people involved like Raina might turn on Garrett, but felt that needed pointing out.

I'd rather Fitz and Simmons not be part of something nefarious for a couple reasons. First is the fact that they are a team, so having one become bad would make that part of the plane feel empty. Second is they seem to represent the "innocent agent" mindset, those who do not know how the spy game really runs. I'd say Skye fits that too, but she is more a "civilian sucked into a bigger world" trope. Coulson as we said is clean, May makes no sense to be HYRDA since she spies for Fury's faction, and Ward is the true sleeper agent.

You mean Fur, right? You were already doing spoiler tags before I posted. I only did in response to you and Fur doing them.

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Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

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