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WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:50 pm

Anyone else here watch this trash?  There's an anime thread, so we're not the lowest tier here, no worries.  I know I've seen some people here talk about it but that was a while ago and I don't know if I'm the only one left.  Hopefully not.

In case any fans have been under a rock, the straw that broke CM Punk's camel's back was dropped on Monday.  After months of frustrated build-up, he asked for (and was granted) his release a half hour before RAW went on the air.  Sad.  He'll be missed.  I don't know what his grievances all were (I've heard there were many) but supposedly two major things were A) E bringing up "part-timers" such as Lesnar, Rock, and Batista for major events rather than giving those blockbuster matches to the guys busting their ass 350 days a year and B) Daniel Bryan not even getting a spot in the Rumble when he (as many others) felt that Bryan should've won it.
I'm not sure what to think of the Bryan glass ceiling thing.  One minute it seems legit, the next it seems like a work.  If it is a work, they're carrying it on way too long.  Hopefully they'll have Bryan win the title match right from Bitchista.  If not because Bryan deserves it, then because that piece of shit Batista doesn't.  His first match back, he wins the Royal Rumble and then he goes around flipping off fans and cursing them out because they wanted DB to win.  What a piece of work.  Then again, what can you expect from a guy who sent a 10 year old away crying because he wouldn't sign his birthday card at an autograph signing event?

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by ericformans_sisterisdead on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:04 pm

i stopped watching wrestling once they did the draft with raw and smackdown other than that


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Re: WWE Thread

Post by symbowles on Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:46 pm

I was heavily into wrestling in the mid-late 90's with the NWO and all that. I quit watching after the Goldberg/Lesner WM match.

I have begun to take an interest in it again (by interest I mean reading internet articles and forums) because of the Sting talk, which coincidentally enough, was one of Punk's reported beefs with the WWE.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by ElSuperGecko on Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:54 pm

Mein Gott im Himmel, you're telling me and Rif actually have something in common besides a totaslandutter disdain for Synthesis?

Now I'm worried.

Big wrestling fan, got the bug early and it never left. It's daft, it's hilarious, it's oily men throwing each other around in their underwear, so what? It doesn't take itself too seriously, which is more than can be said for 90% of the shit on TV nowadays.

And it occupies a fine line between slapstick theatre and actual intense competition, which I find curiously fascinating.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:39 am

The Streak is over.

I don't even...  I would post a funny "omg" forum picture, but no picture properly conveys the OMG.  Saw it born in 1991.  The Streak was older than most of us here.  I never thought there'd be this.. disbelief if it ended.  It's not like I live day to day thinking about The Streak.  But wow.

I feel bad for the women's match that came on next.  They could've started going down on each other, not one person in the building would've noticed.  Poor DB too.  As he Supermans his way through 3 top stars and his smarks mark out for it while booing Cena for doing the exact same thing (to a much lesser degree, I might add), it should've been his night.  He's finally at the top of the mountain.  But it's all about The Streak now.  "DB won?  Cool.  Now let's talk about Taker."

And Brock Lesnar?  Couldn't they have given the honor of the most important victory in the history of this scripted sport to someone at least a TINY bit deserving?  I truly and passionately hate Brock Lesnar as a human being, but even people who like him thought it was complete bullshit to give this to a part timer.  Crazy.

I wish we had more fans here.  I can't stand the IWC.  They make literalists look like Steven Hawking.  I guess that's why I'm rambling here when the only person who even MIGHT be listening is ElSuperGecko; because I don't have anyone else to talk to about it.  Ahh well.  Thoughts, only person who might be reading this?

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by symbowles on Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:07 pm

Watching the refs hand go down for the third time was a very numbing thing to watch. As cliche as it may be, my jaw dropped and hung there forever. I didn't even watch the diva's match or most of the finale...I headed to forums to see the outburst.

The thought crossed my mind, of Brock beating Taker, with how weak Brock was portrayed leading up to WM30...but never in a million years would I have guessed that it would happen.

As questionable as the decision may have been, it has certainly created A LOT of chatter. Tonight's episode of RAW is going to garner a ton of attention.

This could be how they plan on introducing Sting, though. It was heavily implied, after the three count, that Taker was finished. Perhaps he plans on announcing his retirement only to be interrupted by Sting. Without the pressure of the streak, those two can have a match and not have the outcome so predictable. Regardless of their age and diminishing wrestling abilities, I believe a Sting vs Taker match is too lucrative of an opportunity to pass up, not to mention the nostalgia factor, so it'll probably happen.

As for Brock, he now has all the momentum in the world, so it's only logical that he goes after DB's title now. There must be some new deal in place between the WWE and Brock, he must be coming back as a full-time performer. There's no way they'd allow him to beat the streak and then go on a three month hiatus.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:43 pm

I honestly thought it was a botch at first.  Everyone, including Lesnar himself, looked shocked.  Like it wasn't supposed to happen shocked, not "omg I broke the streak" shocked.  It took forever for the music and graphic to appear, and Taker was clearly not all there.  Shortly after it came out that Taker went to the hospital immediately after the match and McMahon was in the ambulance.  McMahon thought it was serious enough to abandon ship on the main event of WM.  So I figured he was knocked out by that last F5 or something and was supposed to kick out.

Turns out, shortly before the match began the betting sites got wind of something and changed the odds so that Lesnar was the heavy favorite going in.  Pretty much undeniable proof that, while Taker was clearly fucked up during the match, it had no impact on the outcome.  Makes sense I suppose.  It's pretty much just Taker's call on who he lets beat him.  Supposedly he's offered it to most of the guys in recent years like Punk.  All of whom were decent human beings and refused to take the win and break the hearts of the fans.  But of course, Brock Lesnar only cares about Brock Lesnar, both on screen and off.  So he'd be shithead enough to take him up on the offer.

I don't know about Sting.  Honestly I've never cared much, I was never much of a WCW fan and I was never anything at all of a TNA fan.  But I can't say I'm looking forward to seeing him wrestle.  He's 55.  55.  He's only 5 years younger than Hogan.  Taker wrestles once a year, is 6 years younger, and he couldn't pull off a decent match last night.  He needs to retire, and anyone older than him needs to retire yesterday.  Have some dignity.  (I'm looking at you, Flair.  And being looked at probably makes you bleed.)

As for Lesnar, there's no way he's coming back full time.  He'd sooner quit and not make giant piles of money.  He has a hatred for travel that is only matched by my hatred for him.  No, he's staying part time.  Which is why the decision to let him end the streak is so baffling.  Literally anyone would've been a better idea.  The Internet hates John Cena's guts, and everywhere I checked I saw a ton of "I'd rather Cena ended it" posts with agreements.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by symbowles on Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:10 am

Rifneno wrote:I honestly thought it was a botch at first.  Everyone, including Lesnar himself, looked shocked.  Like it wasn't supposed to happen shocked, not "omg I broke the streak" shocked.  It took forever for the music and graphic to appear, and Taker was clearly not all there.  Shortly after it came out that Taker went to the hospital immediately after the match and McMahon was in the ambulance.  McMahon thought it was serious enough to abandon ship on the main event of WM.  So I figured he was knocked out by that last F5 or something and was supposed to kick out.

Taker's head took a pretty hard hit when they were on the outside of the ring. The match, which was moving pretty slow, screeched to a near halt after that. Taker just laid in the middle of the ring for the longest time, and when he did get to his feet he looked like he just went 15 rounds with Mike Tyson.


Turns out, shortly before the match began the betting sites got wind of something and changed the odds so that Lesnar was the heavy favorite going in.  Pretty much undeniable proof that, while Taker was clearly fucked up during the match, it had no impact on the outcome.  Makes sense I suppose.  It's pretty much just Taker's call on who he lets beat him.  Supposedly he's offered it to most of the guys in recent years like Punk.  All of whom were decent human beings and refused to take the win and break the hearts of the fans.  But of course, Brock Lesnar only cares about Brock Lesnar, both on screen and off.  So he'd be shithead enough to take him up on the offer.

I agree, dick move by Brock. When you look at the lineup of guys that had an opportunity to end the streak but refused it makes it even more of a kick in the balls that Brock agreed to this. Unless Taker put his foot down and insisted that it be Brock...which I don't think I can see happening, but who knows.

I don't know about Sting.  Honestly I've never cared much, I was never much of a WCW fan and I was never anything at all of a TNA fan.  But I can't say I'm looking forward to seeing him wrestle.  He's 55.  55.  He's only 5 years younger than Hogan.  Taker wrestles once a year, is 6 years younger, and he couldn't pull off a decent match last night.  He needs to retire, and anyone older than him needs to retire yesterday.  Have some dignity.  (I'm looking at you, Flair.  And being looked at probably makes you bleed.)

I was a WCW loyalist during the the Monday night wars and Sting was my favorite wrestler. So I admit I'm very excited to see him come to WWE. I never watched TNA either, but I have youtubed some of his TNA matches. While he's certainly not what he used to be, he can still get around in the ring enough to have a short swan song in the WWE. He may be older than Taker, but his body hasn't taken the same beating so I don't think he'll move at the molasses-like pace the Undertaker was at last night (although he won't be moving like grease lightning either). He has no business challenging for a championship or being involved in any major story lines, but it'd be nice to see him go out with WWE rather than TNA.

Make no mistake, a Sting vs Taker match would be nothing but an average match, but the aura surrounding the two being in the ring together would be unreal. They could just sit in the ring and play checkers and they'd get a huge pop.

I kind of see the Sting situation as finally being able to close the book on WCW while giving Sting the send off he deserves (HoF induction), and finally getting a Sting DVD set.

Plus, after Sting's comments as Wrestlecon, it's not a matter of if, but when he steps into a WWE ring. But I do agree, he needs to retire soon.

As for Lesnar, there's no way he's coming back full time.  He'd sooner quit and not make giant piles of money.  He has a hatred for travel that is only matched by my hatred for him.  No, he's staying part time.  Which is why the decision to let him end the streak is so baffling.  Literally anyone would've been a better idea.  The Internet hates John Cena's guts, and everywhere I checked I saw a ton of "I'd rather Cena ended it" posts with agreements.

I completely agree that Brock was a horrible choice, which is why the only thing I can up with was Vince said "Hey, we'll let you end the streak if you come in full time."

I just can't wrap my head around the streak, a storyline 23 years in the making, being cashed in for a part-time guy.

Perhaps I'm just in denial and it was horrible booking Embarassed
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Re: WWE Thread

Post by ElSuperGecko on Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:10 pm

Hey y'all.

First up, I'm going to go on record and say that I thought Mania was a HUGE show for WWE - one of the best PPV's in a number of years in fact.  And I think the payoff to the Bryan/Authority story at the end was expertly done and the biggest fan moment since the Mania-That-We-Can-No-Longer-Mention.  Both matches were gripping, had plenty of drama and we were kept wondering - will he somehow get screwed over again?

Taker/Brock though.... wow.  I was never sold on the match in the first place, but they way it panned out showed just how important Taker's opponents and the build up to them have been in recent years.  Punk, HHH and Michaels worked well with Taker and put on great stories and incredible shows, but Lesnar and Taker just didn't mesh anywhere near as well.

I didn't expect the streak to end the way it did.  Taker may well have hand-picked his opponent, signed off on the loss, suffered a concussion, whatever - but losing in the manner he did made no sense.  Brock does not benefit.  No-one benefits from this.  He's a part-timer himself, a guy who's already a legend in the business, and he already has enough legitimacy as a former UFC champ.

It's a shame the streak ended the way it did.  If it really had to happen, if Taker wanted to go out on his back, then in keeping with the rest of WrestleMania's changing of the guard theme, it should have been to someone who would be elevated by the win and bring something to the WWE for years to come.  Bray Wyatt is the first name that springs to mind - his character seems like a natural fit as an opponent (and potential successor) to the Dead Man.  But no, he had to lose to Cena instead.

Still;  WrestleMania delivered.  Bryan's lifelong dream came true in spectacular fashion.  Cesaro pulled off his own incredible WrestleMania moment.  Bray and the Family looked awesome as usual. Even the Divas match was pretty good. There were plenty of positives and it looks if we look at the RAW that followed, it looks as though WWE may be starting to really look towards the future and who's going to be headlining their shows for the next ten years.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:15 pm

symbowles wrote:I agree, dick move by Brock. When you look at the lineup of guys that had an opportunity to end the streak but refused it makes it even more of a kick in the balls that Brock agreed to this. Unless Taker put his foot down and insisted that it be Brock...which I don't think I can see happening, but who knows.

Nope, definitely not. Taker may have put his foot down that the Streak ends this year, that's possible. But reliable reports say that his first choice of opponent this year was Daniel Bryan. Lesnar was the fallback option. Hell, he may've been the fallbackX2 option.

If I had to pick anyone on the roster for him to lose the streak to, it'd definitely be John Cena. The Streak is too big to waste on boosting a young up and comer who, history tells us, has about a 10% of working out in the long term. It should've been given to a guy who has busted his ass for years for the company and made it his life. A guy you know will be a future HOFer with or without the streak. For once, something should be about who deserves the accolades instead of who benefits most from them.

If I had to pick ANY time to end it, it would've been the second Triple H match. But I'd have booked it completely different too. The story would be "last year, you took my best friend away from me... this year, I'm taking what's most precious to you: the streak." Trips should've been avenging Michael's career ending loss, not... whatever crap story surrounded that match.

I was a WCW loyalist during the the Monday night wars and Sting was my favorite wrestler.

Condolences. Seriously. I don't know how I'd have felt if my horse was the one that lost the Monday Night Wars.
As for Sting, he's probably the best example of why they lost them though. Had a perfectly healthy main eventer sit up in the rafters and be all emo for what, a year? 2 years? It was a longass time. And then when the big payoff comes... loljk, Bookedmyownmatch Hogan wins a-fucking-gain. How they thought that was acceptable was simply beyond me. Triple H thought Katie Vick was a good idea and he realized that he had to job to Bryan for this angle that hasn't had nearly the build-up.

He may be older than Taker, but his body hasn't taken the same beating so I don't think he'll move at the molasses-like pace the Undertaker was at last night (although he won't be moving like grease lightning either). He has no business challenging for a championship or being involved in any major story lines, but it'd be nice to see him go out with WWE rather than TNA.

Agreed. He's also certainly in better shape than Hogan, who was totally going to be involved in a match at WMXXX until the doctors took a look at him and told Vince "lolno."

I'm starting to think he really IS immortal. How many wrestlers from his era that did as many roids as he did are still alive? Test drops dead mid-pizza and he was like 80 years younger.

ElSuperGecko wrote:Hey y'all.

First up, I'm going to go on record and say that I thought Mania was a HUGE show for WWE - one of the best PPV's in a number of years in fact.  And I think the payoff to the Bryan/Authority story at the end was expertly done and the biggest fan moment since the Mania-That-We-Can-No-Longer-Mention.  Both matches were gripping, had plenty of drama and we were kept wondering - will he somehow get screwed over again?

Naw, fuck that embargo. If we can talk about Jimmy "I did cocaine and accidentally beat my girlfriend to death, lol, man I love beating women" Snuka then we can definitely talk about Chris "I got severe brain damage in the ring and turned into a deranged lunatic" Benoit. I'm not going to hold the man responsible for brain damage. Nobody (well, not the average person or athlete) knew the dangers of CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy for those wondering).

One of the reasons I love the new WWE Network is that they don't censor Benoit anymore, but just include a little warning of his appearance.

Taker/Brock though.... wow.  I was never sold on the match in the first place, but they way it panned out showed just how important Taker's opponents and the build up to them have been in recent years.  Punk, HHH and Michaels worked well with Taker and put on great stories and incredible shows, but Lesnar and Taker just didn't mesh anywhere near as well.

100% agreed. The build up as crap, the match was crap, the streak ending that way was... unspeakable.

I didn't expect the streak to end the way it did.  Taker may well have hand-picked his opponent, signed off on the loss, suffered a concussion, whatever - but losing in the manner he did made no sense.  Brock does not benefit.  No-one benefits from this.  He's a part-timer himself, a guy who's already a legend in the business, and he already has enough legitimacy as a former UFC champ.

Amen, brother.

You know another thing they should've done? Make Taker's match the last on the show. Because the crowd was DEAD for the Divas match. Many people, including myself, didn't even watch the main event. I got a few minutes in and I was like, "I can't even get into this. I'm saving for later when I can give it the attention it deserves." Because I was still so in shock over the Streak.

It's a shame the streak ended the way it did.  If it really had to happen, if Taker wanted to go out on his back, then in keeping with the rest of WrestleMania's changing of the guard theme, it should have been to someone who would be elevated by the win and bring something to the WWE for years to come.  Bray Wyatt is the first name that springs to mind - his character seems like a natural fit as an opponent (and potential successor) to the Dead Man.  But no, he had to lose to Cena instead.

I'm glad he lost personally. He hasn't earned a clean win over Cena yet and Wrestlemania deserves better than screwjobs (FUCK YOU, ROCK, FUCK YOU).

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by ElSuperGecko on Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:38 pm

Rifneno wrote:Naw, fuck that embargo. If we can talk about Jimmy "I did cocaine and accidentally beat my girlfriend to death, lol, man I love beating women" Snuka then we can definitely talk about Chris "I got severe brain damage in the ring and turned into a deranged lunatic" Benoit. I'm not going to hold the man responsible for brain damage. Nobody (well, not the average person or athlete) knew the dangers of CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy for those wondering).

It was a horrific episode all around really.  Failures from everyone involved.  I remember listening a particularly gut-wrenching interview with Chavo who said Chris was calling him in tears, saying he needed help, saying he needed to take time off, to speak to someone, but all he got given from the officials was "get yourself on a plane and get to the show".  I'm surprised Chavo's still in the business, really, given how much he's been through with friends and family.

The finale to Wrestlemania XX was my favourite moment of all time up to that point in wrestling; two guys who'd worked their way through a hell of a lot of adversity to the absolute peak of their profession.  Then Eddie.  Then Benoit.  I agree it shouldn't be a taboo subject, but it's gone from being an incredible, heartwarming moment to being hard to think about and look back on wth anything but sadness.

Rifneno wrote:
100% agreed. The build up as crap, the match was crap, the streak ending that way was... unspeakable.

Were we spoiled with the last few Taker matches being so good?  Punk, Michaels and HHH can raise anybody's game, but not all of Taker's Wrestlemania matches have been that great.  Lack of build this year didn't help, Brock not being able to (or not wanting to) speak on his own didn't help, it just seemed like a really bad choice all round.  I seriously would have preferred a Cena/Lesnar rubber match and Taker/Bray, but hindsight's a wonderful thing and I imagine the only one with any say in who Taker faced was Taker himself.

You know another thing they should've done? Make Taker's match the last on the show. Because the crowd was DEAD for the Divas match. Many people, including myself, didn't even watch the main event. I got a few minutes in and I was like, "I can't even get into this. I'm saving for later when I can give it the attention it deserves." Because I was still so in shock over the Streak.

Any other year and I would agree, but personally speaking I simply wasn't invested at all in the Undertaker/Lesnar match (which funnily enough probably explained my own shock at the decision, since I hadn't thought too much about it and pretty much expected a Taker win).

But I was insanely invested in Bryan this year.  I stopped following WWE for a few years after the Eddie/Benoit episodes, and it was Danielson & McGuiness's signing by WWE that got me back into it.  I'd followed Ring of Honour for a while, and wanted to see what would happen when two extremely talented and deserving but not stereotypical guys got their big chance.  Nigel's story is another sad one, especially as he was really expected to have the better chance of making it out of the two, but Bryan... at first it seemed like WWE was ribbing his supporters from day one.  The Miz feud.  The almost hysterical Cole hate.  NXT losing streak.  The firing.  Hell, even the name they gave him was the blandest, most generic thing they could possibly think of.  But looking back, they knew what they were doing - they were building him as the ultimate underdog.  I've no doubt they knew exactly what he was capable of and were trying to portray him as an average, relatable guy with everything set against him from the start.  I'm not sure they expected it to pay off in quite such a spectacular fashion, though.

Rifneno wrote:
I'm glad he lost personally. He hasn't earned a clean win over Cena yet and Wrestlemania deserves better than screwjobs (FUCK YOU, ROCK, FUCK YOU).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he should have beat Cena at Mania, I just don't really think he should have been in that match in the first place.

My original hope was for Wyatts and Shield to happen at Mania.  I saw them face off on RAW in Manchester in November, and it was absolutely electric to watch.  Their match at Extreme Rules was incredible, and I would have loved to see them continue fighting up until Wrestlemania.  The Shield were totally wasted against Kane and NAO, Bray wasn't wasted against Cena, and the build up to their match was easily the most comprehensively done of the event other than Bryan/HHH/Batista/Orton, but it had that air of predictability.  Cena rises above.  I couldn't see that changing.

I could have easily envisaged a great story between Taker and Bray though... lots of dark, creepy antics in the build up, lots of psychology, and the entire "end your legacy" thing would seem a better fit for Undertaker.  How you'd spin that into "The Streak" actually ending, I don't know though.  I'm not sure you'd even need to to be honest, even a narrow Bray loss and Taker retiring undefeated would be a million times better than what we actually got.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:08 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:It was a horrific episode all around really. Failures from everyone involved. I remember listening a particularly gut-wrenching interview with Chavo who said Chris was calling him in tears, saying he needed help, saying he needed to take time off, to speak to someone, but all he got given from the officials was "get yourself on a plane and get to the show". I'm surprised Chavo's still in the business, really, given how much he's been through with friends and family.

What's even sadder is when you realize it doesn't matter that no one did anything for Benoit. He couldn't be fixed. He had major brain damage. Death was the only thing that could take Benoit's pain away. No pill, no therapy could ever make things better for him. It's a terrible shame that he took 2 people with him... but as fucked up as it sounds, suicide was the right decision for him.

Were we spoiled with the last few Taker matches being so good? Punk, Michaels and HHH can raise anybody's game, but not all of Taker's Wrestlemania matches have been that great. Lack of build this year didn't help, Brock not being able to (or not wanting to) speak on his own didn't help, it just seemed like a really bad choice all round. I seriously would have preferred a Cena/Lesnar rubber match and Taker/Bray, but hindsight's a wonderful thing and I imagine the only one with any say in who Taker faced was Taker himself.

Well like I said, his first choice was DB. I don't know how he wound with Lesnar or thought giving him the streakbreaking match would be a good idea. I know Taker is a huge MMA fan and has a lot of respect for Lesnar but geez...

Pretty much all of Taker's matches since the Streak became a big thing have been awesome. Mark Henry was the last bad one.

But I was insanely invested in Bryan this year. I stopped following WWE for a few years after the Eddie/Benoit episodes, and it was Danielson & McGuiness's signing by WWE that got me back into it. I'd followed Ring of Honour for a while, and wanted to see what would happen when two extremely talented and deserving but not stereotypical guys got their big chance. Nigel's story is another sad one, especially as he was really expected to have the better chance of making it out of the two, but Bryan... at first it seemed like WWE was ribbing his supporters from day one. The Miz feud. The almost hysterical Cole hate. NXT losing streak. The firing. Hell, even the name they gave him was the blandest, most generic thing they could possibly think of. But looking back, they knew what they were doing - they were building him as the ultimate underdog. I've no doubt they knew exactly what he was capable of and were trying to portray him as an average, relatable guy with everything set against him from the start. I'm not sure they expected it to pay off in quite such a spectacular fashion, though.

Honestly I'm kind of off-put by some of DB's more rabid fans. Mostly because they're the same people who piss and moan about Cena "overcoming the odds" but they're totally okay with Bryan coming in with an injured shoulder, beating TRIPLE H clean, then getting his shoulder injured so bad he can't raise his arm, then beating a fresh Orton and Batista while Trips and Stephanie provide further outside interference. I can't remember a single time Cena overcame half as absurd odds as DB did at WM30. But they still hate on Cena for it while cheering DB for doing the same thing except much worse.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he should have beat Cena at Mania, I just don't really think he should have been in that match in the first place.



My original hope was for Wyatts and Shield to happen at Mania. I saw them face off on RAW in Manchester in November, and it was absolutely electric to watch. Their match at Extreme Rules was incredible, and I would have loved to see them continue fighting up until Wrestlemania. The Shield were totally wasted against Kane and NAO, Bray wasn't wasted against Cena, and the build up to their match was easily the most comprehensively done of the event other than Bryan/HHH/Batista/Orton, but it had that air of predictability. Cena rises above. I couldn't see that changing.

I could have easily envisaged a great story between Taker and Bray though... lots of dark, creepy antics in the build up, lots of psychology, and the entire "end your legacy" thing would seem a better fit for Undertaker. How you'd spin that into "The Streak" actually ending, I don't know though. I'm not sure you'd even need to to be honest, even a narrow Bray loss and Taker retiring undefeated would be a million times better than what we actually got.

Agreed on all of it. Especially the Shield/Wyatts thing. Should've been Mania rather than EC.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by ElSuperGecko on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:30 am

Rifneno wrote:Well like I said, his first choice was DB. I don't know how he wound with Lesnar or thought giving him the streakbreaking match would be a good idea. I know Taker is a huge MMA fan and has a lot of respect for Lesnar but geez...

Pretty much all of Taker's matches since the Streak became a big thing have been awesome. Mark Henry was the last bad one.

It might have been a result of Punk forcing WWE's hand.  They were undoubtedly planning for him to be a big part of Mania, and depending who you talk to he may even have been positioned in Bryan's spot.  Losing him how they did, when they did and the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Batista's return will have caused them to reshuffle most of, if not all of the card.  It seems as though many things weren't 100% finalised until after Extreme Rulez - and when you're talking about the year's marquee event, that's leaving it incrdibly late.

Honestly I'm kind of off-put by some of DB's more rabid fans. Mostly because they're the same people who piss and moan about Cena "overcoming the odds" but they're totally okay with Bryan coming in with an injured shoulder, beating TRIPLE H clean, then getting his shoulder injured so bad he can't raise his arm, then beating a fresh Orton and Batista while Trips and Stephanie provide further outside interference. I can't remember a single time Cena overcame half as absurd odds as DB did at WM30. But they still hate on Cena for it while cheering DB for doing the same thing except much worse.

Yeah, I know what you mean.  The perception with Cena seems to be that he does it every single time.  Blatantly false, of course - Cena's put so many people over in so many ways, it's not his fault that he's been relied on at the top of the card so heavily, for so long.  People have been given chances, given runs andeither suffered huge amounts of bad luck (see Ziggler, for example) failed to click with the audience, or both.  The same people usually accuse Orton of being wooden and predictable, when he's actually one of the best all-round performers WWE has at the moment.

When WWE ran their own development system, they were bringing through guys who looked the part but couldn't do the business in the ring or were just completely unrelatable to the crowd.  The Snitskys, Heidenreichs, Matt Morgans etc - following Lesnar, Orton and Batista, there was such a dearth of top-level talent it was the same old faces relied on all the time.  Angle quit, Austin retired, Rock went to the movies, HHH, Michaels, Taker all started getting older, they lost the two heroes of WM20,  Lesnar wanted a real sporting accomplishment and Batista wanted a break, Edge and Mysterio had injury after injury... there was no-one coming through the ranks to replace them.  For a long time, Cena and Orton were effectively all they had.

Then CM Punk stepped up to the plate... and now it looks like the WWE has finally found an approach that works - pick up the best of the Indies, let them adapt to their style in NXT and the performance center, and call them up when ready.  We could be headed for a new boom time with WWE now.  Punk paved the way, Bryan proved it wasn't a one-off, and now we've got the likes of former RoH alumni Rollins, Ambrose, Harper and Cesaro all wowing people on a nightly basis, and Neville, Zayn and more all on their way.  Good times.



I concede the point.

Agreed on all of it. Especially the Shield/Wyatts thing. Should've been Mania rather than EC.

Fortunately, we have Main Event to look forward to...

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:06 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:It might have been a result of Punk forcing WWE's hand. They were undoubtedly planning for him to be a big part of Mania, and depending who you talk to he may even have been positioned in Bryan's spot. Losing him how they did, when they did and the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Batista's return will have caused them to reshuffle most of, if not all of the card. It seems as though many things weren't 100% finalised until after Extreme Rulez - and when you're talking about the year's marquee event, that's leaving it incrdibly late.

Agreed. It was crazy how late in the game they were planning Mania's card. I remember when I was a kid, the card was set 2 or 3 months prior. DEFINITELY the top of the card, the big matches. Then again, when I was a kid we only had 4 PPVs.
I'm proud of the fans for wholeheartedly rejecting Botchista. I thought I was the only one who couldn't stand him and his stupid belly button asshole tattoo.

Yeah, I know what you mean. The perception with Cena seems to be that he does it every single time. Blatantly false, of course - Cena's put so many people over in so many ways, it's not his fault that he's been relied on at the top of the card so heavily, for so long. People have been given chances, given runs andeither suffered huge amounts of bad luck (see Ziggler, for example) failed to click with the audience, or both. The same people usually accuse Orton of being wooden and predictable, when he's actually one of the best all-round performers WWE has at the moment.

Cena jobbed to Kevin Federline.

Let me repeat them for emphasis.

John Cena, 11 time WWE Champion, 3 time World Heavyweight Champion, laid down and let K-Fed get the three count on him.

I would not job to Kevin Federline. Such a thing is beneath me. I would like to keep some shred of self respect. But John Cena looked at that scenario and went, "yeah sure, I'll do it and get the company some mainstream media attention."

Orton needs to focus more on getting the RKO out of crazy situations. Those are always his highlights, when he pulls off an RKO from a WTF position. It's one of the things that made DDP so big too.

When WWE ran their own development system, they were bringing through guys who looked the part but couldn't do the business in the ring or were just completely unrelatable to the crowd. The Snitskys, Heidenreichs, Matt Morgans etc - following Lesnar, Orton and Batista, there was such a dearth of top-level talent it was the same old faces relied on all the time. Angle quit, Austin retired, Rock went to the movies, HHH, Michaels, Taker all started getting older, they lost the two heroes of WM20, Lesnar wanted a real sporting accomplishment and Batista wanted a break, Edge and Mysterio had injury after injury... there was no-one coming through the ranks to replace them. For a long time, Cena and Orton were effectively all they had.

I loved Snitsky's "it wasn't my fault!" gimmick. I don't know why, it was just funny as hell.
Agreed. They'll never have the litany of awesome they had during the Attitude Era, but it was especially bad for a while there. Angle's talking about coming back but the man's a broken down disgrace of himself. The last of the umpteenth times he got pulled over for reckless/drunk driving, the cops said he was swallowing a bunch of pills when he came up to the cars. JFC, Kurt. You look at old pictures of him and compare them to now and you can literally see how the HGH has deformed his skull. It's revolting.

What Lesnar wanted was away from the "rigors of travel." Which is why I'm absolutely positive that he won't be coming back full time, ever. His entire reason for walking out 10 years ago was that he hates to travel. Sure, he wanted to play football, but the travel was the main thing. That's why he didn't come back to WWE after the NFL told him his sucks donkey balls.
Batista? This is funny actually: you know that movie a few years back where Triple H was playing a deadbeat dad trying to make amends with his daughter? Batista was the original choice for the movie. Then he started telling everyone that he wanted to do the Rock's thing and get into movies and stop wrestling. So, not wanting to lose ANOTHER star to Hollywood, they gave it to someone they knew was here to stay in the WWE. Batista got 31 flavors of pissed and quit in a hissy fit over having the role taken away.

Speaking of bad people leaving, the Ultimate Warrior just croaked. Some timing, huh?

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by ElSuperGecko on Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:32 am

Rifneno wrote:Agreed. It was crazy how late in the game they were planning Mania's card. I remember when I was a kid, the card was set 2 or 3 months prior. DEFINITELY the top of the card, the big matches. Then again, when I was a kid we only had 4 PPVs.
I'm proud of the fans for wholeheartedly rejecting Botchista. I thought I was the only one who couldn't stand him and his stupid belly button asshole tattoo.

What makes it even more amusing is that if Punk had stuck around, the best-built and most dramatic matches on the card may not even have happened.  Rumours were saying WWE were planning on Bryan/Sheamus.

Rifneno wrote:
I loved Snitsky's "it wasn't my fault!" gimmick. I don't know why, it was just funny as hell.
Agreed. They'll never have the litany of awesome they had during the Attitude Era, but it was especially bad for a while there. Angle's talking about coming back but the man's a broken down disgrace of himself. The last of the umpteenth times he got pulled over for reckless/drunk driving, the cops said he was swallowing a bunch of pills when he came up to the cars. JFC, Kurt. You look at old pictures of him and compare them to now and you can literally see how the HGH has deformed his skull. It's revolting.

Angle's worrying. The guy legitimately needs help.

Rifneno wrote:
Batista? This is funny actually: you know that movie a few years back where Triple H was playing a deadbeat dad trying to make amends with his daughter? Batista was the original choice for the movie. Then he started telling everyone that he wanted to do the Rock's thing and get into movies and stop wrestling. So, not wanting to lose ANOTHER star to Hollywood, they gave it to someone they knew was here to stay in the WWE. Batista got 31 flavors of pissed and quit in a hissy fit over having the role taken away.

What makes it even funnier is Batista's daughter got more mainstream attention than he did while he was away.

Brock leaves WWE and becomes a UFC champion.  Jericho leaves WWE and becomes a music and TV star.  Rock leaves WWE and becomes a Hollywood box office sensation.

Batista leaves WWE and gets one-upped by his daughter's sex tape.

Rifneno wrote:Speaking of bad people leaving, the Ultimate Warrior just croaked. Some timing, huh?

You couldn't make this stuff up, could you?  Literally the day after THAT RAW goodbye?  Less than 48 hours removed from Mania?  Unbeliavable.  It's a hell of a business, and so many of it's former stars are now in a shocking state.  Angle's one.  Scott Hall and Jake Roberts were others - fortunately they seemed to have turned a corner.

WWE's turned a lot around in recent years, with their wellness policy, concussion awareness and general health and safety, but at the end of the day these guys are still putting each other through hell on a nightly basis.  You can't get tossed around like that without suffering injuries.  No matter how careful you try to be, mistakes and accidents happen... and you get Del Rio, plagued by injury, Ziggler, concussed how many times recently?  AJ  Lee getting concussed, passing out from dehydration and exhaustion on tour.

Look at TNA and the indies, and the picture gets even worse.  Very few safety provisions, bigger risks taken, no insurance etc.  AJ Styles recently did an indy show in the UK, broke a guy's neck when they botched a Styles Clash.  The guy almost died from what was effectively a part-time hobby.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:21 pm

ElSuperGecko wrote:What makes it even more amusing is that if Punk had stuck around, the best-built and most dramatic matches on the card may not even have happened.  Rumours were saying WWE were planning on Bryan/Sheamus.

Bitch please!

Rifneno wrote:Angle's worrying. The guy legitimately needs help.

IKR?



As any regular of our chat room can tell you, I have a legitimate vicodin problem myself. When Angle talked about his struggles with the drug... holy shit. The guy takes more before he gets out of bed in the morning than I do in 2-3 days. Literally. I have absolutely no idea how his liver hasn't given out. By everything I've ever been told about medical science, his liver should've flashed for a few seconds and started disintegrating like an early Final Fantasy boss. If I were a religious man, I would honestly believe God was intervening directly to keep him alive, because I have no explanation for his even being alive. And the scary thing is that he's since quit that drug (so he says) and moved on to more dangerous and serious ones (so we know).

What makes it even funnier is Batista's daughter got more mainstream attention than he did while he was away.

Brock leaves WWE and becomes a UFC champion.  Jericho leaves WWE and becomes a music and TV star.  Rock leaves WWE and becomes a Hollywood box office sensation.

Batista leaves WWE and gets one-upped by his daughter's sex tape.

I guess he needs to... deal with it.

You couldn't make this stuff up, could you?  Literally the day after THAT RAW goodbye?  Less than 48 hours removed from Mania?  Unbeliavable.  It's a hell of a business, and so many of it's former stars are now in a shocking state.  Angle's one.  Scott Hall and Jake Roberts were others - fortunately they seemed to have turned a corner.

True, but Hall and Roberts have turned that corner so many times that nobody even pays attention anymore. Supposedly Hall had some kind of trauma. Nobody knows what it is, but Nash has alluded some kind of highly traumatic event, saying that Hall was "a broken man before he ever stepped foot in a ring." Molested as a kid? Witnessed a brutal murder? Whatever it was, I hope he gets the help he needs for it. He's not going to get over his substance abuse problems for good until he does.

WWE's turned a lot around in recent years, with their wellness policy, concussion awareness and general health and safety, but at the end of the day these guys are still putting each other through hell on a nightly basis.  You can't get tossed around like that without suffering injuries.  No matter how careful you try to be, mistakes and accidents happen... and you get Del Rio, plagued by injury, Ziggler, concussed how many times recently?  AJ  Lee getting concussed, passing out from dehydration and exhaustion on tour.

Look at TNA and the indies, and the picture gets even worse.  Very few safety provisions, bigger risks taken, no insurance etc.  AJ Styles recently did an indy show in the UK, broke a guy's neck when they botched a Styles Clash.  The guy almost died from what was effectively a part-time hobby.

Very true, but let's face it, >90% chance that Warrior's death is directly a result of all the steroids he did back in the 80's/early 90's. As for the rest, Jericho said it best: becoming a professional wrestler means accepting that you are going to be in pain every single day for the rest of your life. I don't know how they do it.
The government honestly needs to step in and put some mandatory safety regulations on the business. WWE is fairly okayish, but the indies aren't. And assholes like New Jack need to simply be banned from the business. I'll never forget the first story I read about him. He bladed some rookie so bad that the guy almost bled to death. JMFC.
I'm just glad that while Vince is vocal about how Benoit was a monster and all that nonsense, he actually seems to understand what the real problem was and is only spouting bullshit to not get megasued. They've cut down on head impacts like crazy since about 5 minutes after the tragedy. Orton's kick even got banned. They let him do it like one time in recent years. Chairshots are on the upper back even though high definition calls their bullshit, no piledrivers and the like except special occasion (:undertaker:), ect. Which is great. Honestly I think CTE is as big a demon hiding in the closest for wrestling as drugs are.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by symbowles on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:55 pm

Rifneno wrote:Condolences. Seriously. I don't know how I'd have felt if my horse was the one that lost the Monday Night Wars.
As for Sting, he's probably the best example of why they lost them though. Had a perfectly healthy main eventer sit up in the rafters and be all emo for what, a year? 2 years? It was a longass time. And then when the big payoff comes... loljk, Bookedmyownmatch Hogan wins a-fucking-gain. How they thought that was acceptable was simply beyond me. Triple H thought Katie Vick was a good idea and he realized that he had to job to Bryan for this angle that hasn't had nearly the build-up.

Well, in my defense I was only 6 when I began watching wrestling with my grandfather in 1996, and since he is form the south, that's what he watched, so it just stuck with me. But I was hardly old enough to realize how bad the decisions being made in WCW were. To me, Sting was a really cool character who came and beat some NWO ass every Monday. It was always so exciting to see what would happen next. Obviously the combination of Hogans ego and Sting's extended time off ruined their Starcade match. But even worse was the decisions afterwards coupled with Hogan's 110% creative control and Nash's booking.

Now that I'm older and can look back at that stuff, it's mind boggling how dumb WCW's decisions were. David Arquette as champion!? WTF. That's a disgrace to everyone that wore the big gold belt. It's a shame because WCW had really good performers, but their shortsighted vision and their ideology of "Just add moar Hogan and moar NWO" really killed things. And don't get me started on Russo.

Rifneno wrote:What Lesnar wanted was away from the "rigors of travel." Which is why I'm absolutely positive that he won't be coming back full time, ever.

I had said earlier that I thought there was a possibility of Brock coming back full time with his win...but with Haymen now managing Cesaro, it seems they are trying to keep Haymen on screen while Brock is off.

Also, very saddened by Warrior's passing. At least he had the perfect speech to go out to. No

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by ElSuperGecko on Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:11 pm

Rifneno wrote:Very true, but let's face it, >90% chance that Warrior's death is directly a result of all the steroids he did back in the 80's/early 90's. As for the rest, Jericho said it best: becoming a professional wrestler means accepting that you are going to be in pain every single day for the rest of your life. I don't know how they do it.

Oh, absolutely.  It's the 80's-90's era that's to blame.  The stars, the promoters, everyone around them.  "Rock and wrestling".  Yeah.  Vince's baby kicked the business into hyperdrive after Wrestlemania I.  We've all heard the stories - money, booze, drugs, steroids - do what ever the hell you like outside the ring as long as you're ready to go when the show starts (not that that stopped various performers from turning up smashed).

The older stars? The Freddie Blassies, Harley Races, Bruno Sammartinos of the world?  They looked after themselves, and didn't make the money the guys post-Wrestlemania era did.  80's to 90's?  Too much, too soon.  A lot of them couldn't handle it, there was no one there to help them figure it out, no safeguards, no counselling, nothing. and there's a morgue full of guys who should be living the prime of their life now as a result.

Rifneno wrote:
Assholes like New Jack need to simply be banned from the business. I'll never forget the first story I read about him. He bladed some rookie so bad that the guy almost bled to death. JMFC

New Jack is an absolute psychopath.  I'm amazed he kept getting work after ECW collapsed.  He shouldn't have been allowed back in the ring after he and Vic Grimes almost killed themselves.

Rifneno wrote:
I'm just glad that while Vince is vocal about how Benoit was a monster and all that nonsense, he actually seems to understand what the real problem was and is only spouting bullshit to not get megasued. They've cut down on head impacts like crazy since about 5 minutes after the tragedy. Orton's kick even got banned. They let him do it like one time in recent years. Chairshots are on the upper back even though high definition calls their bullshit, no piledrivers and the like except special occasion (:undertaker:), ect. Which is great. Honestly I think CTE is as big a demon hiding in the closest for wrestling as drugs are.

High definition calls them on all of their bullshit, to be honest.  But we're wrestling fans, suspension of disbelief is what we do.  HHH's rubber sledgehammer bouncing around in his match with Lesnar was hilarious.

WWE have been paying for the mistakes they made during the 80's and 90's for years now.  Everyone knows that the deaths mentioned above are a direct result of their treatment (or lack thereof) of their workers during that period.  It's no surprise they've tightened things up - they had to.  Especially with shareholders watching them closely - they can't afford any modern-era fuckups, they can't get away with it any more.

And to be honest, most of their modern performers aren't like that anyway.  They take their careers seriously, look after themseves and do things the right way.

A lot of credit for the changes should go to Christopher Nowinski as well.  He had his WWE career cut short due to concussion, and made it a personal goal to investigate the effects of concussions on sports people.  WWE's formed close ties with the Sports Legacy Institute and they're taking much more responsibility for the health and safety of their performers as a result. If you want to be cynical about it, they really had very little choice in the matter. Already mired in controversies and tragedies, the last thing they needed was a Harvard-graduate injured-at-work ex-employee on their case. Trouble is, even with these changes, we've still had the likes of Ziggler, AJ Lee, Del Rio, Naomi, Bryan and more all suffer head injuries this year alone.  It's scary to think how many knocks went unreported and undiagnosed previously.

And you're right - outside of the WWE, there's no accountability whatsoever.  The indies are mostly run like fan clubs more than businesses.  Thre guys show up, do whatever they want, get paid feck all then go somewhere else and do it all again.  TNA's the worst of the lot, as it's supposedly a business, they style themselves as a serious rival to the WWE, yet it gives no protection whatsoever to it's stars.  Hell, a lot of their roster aren't even contracted for more than a couple of shows at a time.  The way they treated Jesse Sorensen and Daffney was apalling.  The way they've treated Angle is appalling.  Unfortunately, the workers just want to gety themselves on TV.  The American Wolves turned down the chance to work with WWE in favour of joining TNA, because TNA promised them TV spots straight away while the E wanted them to train at the performance center and work on NXT for a year first.  They'll regret that decision in the end.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:50 pm

I'm confused.  Cesaro just turned face, but now he's with the human superfurnace?



I can't even pretend to give a damn about the Warrior.  He was a raving lunatic and a belligerent asshole even by my standards.  Remember the time he went to a black tie dinner and threatened to beat somebody with a steel chair like he was his character, all because the guy was a democrat?  How about when the Young Republicans had to apologize for his homophobic bullshit when they made the mistake of giving him a microphone for 10 minutes?  People say Gary Busey crazy because nobody is Ultimate Warrior crazy.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by ElSuperGecko on Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:12 pm

Rifneno wrote:I'm confused.  Cesaro just turned face, but now he's with the human superfurnace?

Glad to see Cesaro getting a push either way - the guy is a legit beast, it's just a shame he isn't allowed to do even half of what he CAN do in the ring. It was odd seeing him immediately paired with Heyman, but the crowd seemed pleased enough about the prospect of the two pairing up.

Don't know if you follow NXT at all, but what's with WWE ripping off Hollywood characters recently? Tyler Breeze is effectively Ben Stiller's character in Zoolander, Adam Rose is quite obviously based on Russel Brand in Get Him To The Greek.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by symbowles on Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:30 pm

Gotta say, Rollins turning on the shield took me by surprise.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:50 pm

Yeah, didn't see that coming.

Not sure what the point is either. Breaking up a successful stable seems like a bad idea. I'm sure Rollins is sitting at home looking at where the old Nexus members are today and having a panic attack.

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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:53 pm


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Re: WWE Thread

Post by symbowles on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:12 pm


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Re: WWE Thread

Post by Rifneno on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:19 pm


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Re: WWE Thread

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