(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ElSuperGecko on Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:28 pm

Finally decided to get off my ass and do my own Indoctrination Theory video, just for giggles really:


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by spotlessvoid on Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:29 pm

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ElSuperGecko on Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:10 pm

Cheers spotlessvoid! I still pop by now and then (although in off topic more often recently).

I'm just waiting now, waiting like the rest of us to see where the blue hell Bioware plan on going with ME4...

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by hyolo on Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:33 am

ElSuperGecko wrote:Finally decided to get off my ass and do my own Indoctrination Theory video, just for giggles really:


Gotta say the green color still is very soothing.
Along with the blue one. Whistling

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:02 am

Hehe, I like it.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ElSuperGecko on Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:45 pm

hyolo wrote:
Gotta say the green color still is very soothing.
Along with the blue one.  

But that's what the Reapers want you to think!  ;)

"Listen to us... it's alright.. it's OK... trust us...it will all be fine... it's perfect... it's inevitable..."

Harbinger

Can anyone else hear that hum?  Or is that just me?

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Hehe, I like it.

Cheers DD!  I think I could have probably fit in one or two more clips/quotes (and cut down on some of the slowdowns/fade to blacks), but couldn't find the footage I wanted.

I was considering putting in a few facepalms from the crew.. in the end I just put Saren's facepalm in.


Last edited by DoomsdayDevice on Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed quote)

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:25 pm

I still find this a funny parallel to the endings.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ElSuperGecko on Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:03 pm

Mark Meer is an absolute legend. That is all.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:06 pm

So is Jen Hale. Tongue

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:29 pm

The control chip scene was for a few purposes. First, to clarify that there was not a control chip from Cerberus (an excuse literalists would DEFINITELY use for TIM being able to control Shepard), to raise the ethical questions about synthesis (and to a much lesser extent, control), and for Miranda to mention the black boxes in the project that were almost certainly Reaper tech.

Hale sucks, and Hale fanboys are absolute fucking cancer.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by smash016 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:33 pm

I guess that's why she's one of the most decorated game VAs out there... And Meer was just a nobody before he landed the role of Shepard.

Guy can't even hide his Canadian accent. That's not my opinion, that's proof he's a technically lousy voice actor.

Male Shepard is just a geek who doesn't give a shit.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Maximus on Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:59 pm

smash016 wrote:Male Shepard is just a geek who doesn't give a shit.
Hale sux!


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:33 pm

In ME2, Maelon quotes Mordin's own research, saying that the more control is exerted upon a person, the less useful they become.  I wish I had that quote on video.  It also further frustrates me that Mordin didn't try to do something, anything, about Reaper indoctrination in ME3.  He was so obsessed with fixing the Krogan on the microscopic level that he suicided himself rather than give thought to the greater good he could accomplish on the Normandy working against the Reapers... or he becomes fixated with the Crucible project... which is likely a Reaper construct..........    bah, I've been doing this for too long.  I don't want to argue that Mordin might be indoctrinated to any degree.

Anyway, no control chip.  It would limit Shepard's usefulness.  A control chipped Shepard could not have brought the might of the galaxy to bear upon the obvious killzone the Reapers set up in Earth orbit around the Citadel, let alone the murder bowl that was once London.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:27 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:In ME2, Maelon quotes Mordin's own research, saying that the more control is exerted upon a person, the less useful they become.  I wish I had that quote on video.  It also further frustrates me that Mordin didn't try to do something, anything, about Reaper indoctrination in ME3.  He was so obsessed with fixing the Krogan on the microscopic level that he suicided himself rather than give thought to the greater good he could accomplish on the Normandy working against the Reapers... or he becomes fixated with the Crucible project... which is likely a Reaper construct..........    bah, I've been doing this for too long.  I don't want to argue that Mordin might be indoctrinated to any degree.

Anyway, no control chip.  It would limit Shepard's usefulness.  A control chipped Shepard could not have brought the might of the galaxy to bear upon the obvious killzone the Reapers set up in Earth orbit around the Citadel, let alone the murder bowl that was once London.
Maelon: "Please, professor. You wrote a paper on this. Forced behavior modification always results in mental degradation. Whether from Reaper indoctrination or drugs, test subjects always lose higher cognitive function."
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:09 am

smash016 wrote:I guess that's why she's one of the most decorated game VAs out there... And Meer was just a nobody before he landed the role of Shepard.

Guy can't even hide his Canadian accent. That's not my opinion, that's proof he's a technically lousy voice actor.

Male Shepard is just a geek who doesn't give a shit.

Hale sucks fat leathery cock. That's not my opinion, that's a documented fact.

ZerebusPrime wrote:In ME2, Maelon quotes Mordin's own research, saying that the more control is exerted upon a person, the less useful they become.  I wish I had that quote on video.  It also further frustrates me that Mordin didn't try to do something, anything, about Reaper indoctrination in ME3.  He was so obsessed with fixing the Krogan on the microscopic level that he suicided himself rather than give thought to the greater good he could accomplish on the Normandy working against the Reapers... or he becomes fixated with the Crucible project... which is likely a Reaper construct..........    bah, I've been doing this for too long.  I don't want to argue that Mordin might be indoctrinated to any degree.

Mordin? Saren devoted an entire research wing on Virmire to indoctrination and he made a very big deal about the fact that more control being exerted renders the victim less functional and how that was his saving grace and how he knew the Reapers weren't just controlling him.

He was wrong of course. It's true that more control = less usefulness but the Reapers are incredibly subtle in their manipulations. They don't generally force their victims down a path, but they influence their way of thinking so that they chose the path themselves. For example, Paul Grayson was going to kill himself to avoid becoming a tool for the Reapers. The Reapers realized this and gave him a quick shot of hormones. "Wouldn't it be nice to get one last fuck in before death?" So he gave in to the desire and headed for Omega to get laid, right where the Reapers wanted him.

Poor guy didn't even get laid.

Anyway, Mordin was indeed incredibly smart. Smart enough to know his limits. Studying indoctrination has never turned out well for anyone. Indoctrination is the Reapers' greatest secret and most powerful weapon. I have no doubt that even Mordin would fail to beat it in a laboratory. A Reaper is a two kilometer (slightly over a mile and a half) supercomputer build on a billion years of tech. Compared to us, Mordin is a supergenius. Compared to a Reaper, he barely qualifies as sentient. He may have beaten some one-off tools of theirs like the plague on Omega and limited amounts of seeker swarms, but indoctrination? I don't like those chances. "But our guys are the smarterest and it's worth a risk" is the same prideful mistake that led to every other indoctrination study going bad. Mordin was right not to study it.

Anyway, no control chip.  It would limit Shepard's usefulness.  A control chipped Shepard could not have brought the might of the galaxy to bear upon the obvious killzone the Reapers set up in Earth orbit around the Citadel, let alone the murder bowl that was once London.

I don't know why people still insist the Reapers would want the grand fleet assembled. Yes, it allows them to wipe out the galactic military in one fell swoop, but at a terrible cost. That battle will set them back many cycles. A cycle is not worth it if even a single capital ship falls, let alone quite a few of them. The Reapers are patient, as you would expect from a billion year old immortal entity that can control its own perception of time. They would much rather take their time wiping out small pockets of military resistance than face it all at once and take casualties.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:19 am

So you've been close enough to her husband's penis to know that it is fat and leathery?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:24 am

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
So you've been close enough to her husband's penis to know that it is fat and leathery?

Aww, look at Selim trying to be clever.

Protip: "lol how do u no that?" stopped being clever before you were born.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:29 am

Rifneno wrote:
Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
So you've been close enough to her husband's penis to know that it is fat and leathery?

Aww, look at Selim trying to be clever.

Protip: "lol how do u no that?" stopped being clever before you were born.
Well, it's better than personally insulting someone because they give an opinion you disagree with when said opinion is about a video game.

Plus how can you hate her saying trust the writers yet support IT? Supporting IT is all about trusting that the writers will reveal it.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:54 am

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:Well, it's better than personally insulting someone because they give an opinion you disagree with when said opinion is about a video game.

Plus how can you hate her saying trust the writers yet support IT? Supporting IT is all about trusting that the writers will reveal it.

To say I grow tired of explaining things to you is beyond an understatement.

First of all, Hale knows so little about Mass Effect that she didn't even know it's possible that for Shepard to live. Mass Effect is a paycheck to her. Which is fine, until she starts with bullshit like this. People falsely assume that she actually has some inside knowledge (I know this is not true because I've heard BW devs talk about how little the VA's are told) and many people took that tweet as borderline confirmation that a reveal was coming. Which is a reasonable assumption since if you didn't know how little BW tells their VA's, you'd assume she'd know. Even knowing how little they're told, if you trust that silly bitch, it's still a very reasonable assumption since it's possible she already did voice work on a reveal.

As time as proven, this was not the case and while she took the time to chastise people for bitching about the ending (time that would be better spent mastering the usage of her caps lock), she never took the time to correct the assumption that she knew anything more than the actual fans did.

Secondly, IT is not about trusting BW will do a reveal. IT is about the ending of ME3 being indoctrination. Nothing more. IT never states that BW isn't a bunch of hacks who did it just to try and create discussion and never planned a reveal.

I really, really tire of explaining things to you. Can you not suck, just for a little bit? That'd be fantastic.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Terramine on Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:37 am

Sidenote, regardless of Maleshep's voice actor's skillz... he's the perfect male hero archtype voice. He even beats goku from DBZ. Most people do not even understand what I'm talking about. But anyone who knows their shit: Male Commander Shepard has a godly voice.

Hale is awesome in my eyes because she pulls off a female hero archtype voice pretty great in my eyes. That's why I play a FemShep more than anything. Not because she beats MaleShep at his own game, but because it's impressive for a female voice. To capture masculinity in a female voice and WORK IT, is amazing. No offense to females, but all this cultural indoctrination to be feminine has made y'alls voice... well... /feminine/. And most outliers, are simply chicks with a dude's voice. But FemShep sound's like a WARRIORESS. A bitch that will do glorious battle, a chick that you can "be as fast as a leopard and still not be as good as Commander Shepard". So I praise both voices, could have Hale been done better? Yes. But she's better than any competition that's for sure and sets a precedent IMO

The only real live human being that has the perfect voice of the hero archetype naturally that I know of... is a black atheist rapper named Greydon Square lmao.

A voice that doesn't just sound like a tough masculine dude. But one that has confidence that could roar through generations. One that demands recognition and roars through the species saying "Hey! Notice me!".

/end rant

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by hyolo on Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:08 am

This whole talk about "masculinity" or "femininity" is pure garbage and misogynist. Pure and simple social construture to determine a gender by its sex and social roles. I will not prolong about this because I usually don't, I only kindly ask you to not say things like they're black or white. Everything has a spectrum and so does people. And if some chicks have "men's" voice, well, it is her voice, not a men's.
Yes, I'm a woman and yes, it is offensive.
As the same thing as saying "she's bitching" or "she's a bitch". No, don't do that.
Some terms are so offensive some people don't even realize it.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Terramine on Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:25 am

hyolo wrote:This whole talk about "masculinity" or "femininity" is pure garbage and misogynist. Pure and simple social construture to determine a gender by its sex and social roles. I will not prolong about this because I usually don't, I only kindly ask you to not say things like they're black or white. Everything has a spectrum and so does people. And if some chicks have "men's" voice, well, it is her voice, not a men's.
Yes, I'm a woman and yes, it is offensive.
As the same thing as saying "she's bitching" or "she's a bitch". No, don't do that.
Some terms are so offensive some people don't even realize it.
Offense should be based on reason. For instance, I am offended by racism because of the sheer illogical nature of it. It denies all evidence for the sake of hating fellow human beings based on skin color. In a universe where people suffer enough as it is, you go and make people of a specific skin color suffer for said skin color? Fuck that.

I think you need to realize that I'm not your enemy. Masculinity and Femininity are not social constructs, but rather duality in a dual universe. I am not advocating sexism, to the contrary. I WANT women who are masculine, and men who are feminine. Though I'm masculine myself, so I most appreciate fellow human beings who are masculine and value the way of the warrior.

I truly, respect women who are warriors as much as any man. I'm talking to a fellow human being who is female, setting up a consensual spar. We shall fight when we meet, to a dangerous extent, but without the intent to kill. It shall be glorious and fun! Beautiful even. If they beat me, I will accept them as my superior as I attempt to improve. If i beat them, I will accept them as my EQUAL, not my inferior.

I hope you understand? I'm not sexist, I'm probably the most justice and equality loving person you'll meet.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:40 am

Rifneno wrote:
I don't know why people still insist the Reapers would want the grand fleet assembled.  Yes, it allows them to wipe out the galactic military in one fell swoop, but at a terrible cost.  That battle will set them back many cycles.  A cycle is not worth it if even a single capital ship falls, let alone quite a few of them.  The Reapers are patient, as you would expect from a billion year old immortal entity that can control its own perception of time.  They would much rather take their time wiping out small pockets of military resistance than face it all at once and take casualties.

I know the Reapers are supposed to be extremely patient and by rights should have shut down the mass relay network long before the allied fleets arrived at Earth.  The fleets would have been forced to FTL to wherever they were going to and spend their ever dwindling fuel supplies and still not get anywhere on the galactic scale in a reasonable amount of time. That's the patient way to dispose of the the allied armada.  Either the Reapers couldn't shut down the network in time or they chose not to.  If the former, I want to know why.  If the latter, then the Reapers wanted that allied fleet to show up because thanks to the Illusive Man they had to know it was coming.  I find it difficult to rationalize other scenarios.

It's been quite a while since I've played the game, but I don't recall actually killing any capital ships in ME3 outside of the codex regarding the fighting at Palaven.  The Leviathans enthralled/incapacitated one in their DLC.  In the battle for Earth we see one lose some of its "fingers" but that was it, wasn't it?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by hyolo on Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:45 am

Terramine wrote:
hyolo wrote:This whole talk about "masculinity" or "femininity" is pure garbage and misogynist. Pure and simple social construture to determine a gender by its sex and social roles. I will not prolong about this because I usually don't, I only kindly ask you to not say things like they're black or white. Everything has a spectrum and so does people. And if some chicks have "men's" voice, well, it is her voice, not a men's.
Yes, I'm a woman and yes, it is offensive.
As the same thing as saying "she's bitching" or "she's a bitch". No, don't do that.
Some terms are so offensive some people don't even realize it.
Offense should be based on reason. For instance, I am offended by racism because of the sheer illogical nature of it. It denies all evidence for the sake of hating fellow human beings based on skin color. In a universe where people suffer enough as it is, you go and make people of a specific skin color suffer for said skin color? Fuck that.

I think you need to realize that I'm not your enemy. Masculinity and Femininity are not social constructs, but rather duality in a dual universe. I am not advocating sexism, to the contrary. I WANT women who are masculine, and men who are feminine. Though I'm masculine myself, so I most appreciate fellow human beings who are masculine and value the way of the warrior.

I truly, respect women who are warriors as much as any man. I'm talking to a fellow human being who is female, setting up a consensual spar. We shall fight when we meet, to a dangerous extent, but without the intent to kill. It shall be glorious and fun! Beautiful even. If they beat me, I will accept them as my superior as I attempt to improve. If i beat them, I will accept them as my EQUAL, not my inferior.

I hope you understand? I'm not sexist, I'm probably the most justice and equality loving person you'll meet.

I know you're not my enemy, I give you my word on that. All I'm trying to say is that saying something is masculine or feminine is instantly saying it belongs to a man or a woman.
Also to that extent, we may live in a dual universe for some, but for others, we don't. Obviously, in the end, it is about one or the other, but until then, it isn't. For example, a really poor but to the point one, when a woman has a "masculine" voice, she's called a butch, like it is bad. On the other hand, the man is called a "girl" like it is also bad. So, that's why I'm saying rotulating something masculine or feminine can be offensive or maybe it can't, you know? It depends. That's also why it's better to avoid it at most times than to put someone else like they're inferior.
I belive you're not sexist. However, some terms are built around sexism, racism, homo/bi/transphobia, assexual/panssexual/demissexual etc etc and, again, some people don't even realize it. That's all I'm saying, Terramine. Not trying to indiviually attack you. I'm sorry if I sound like I am.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:02 am

hyolo wrote:This whole talk about "masculinity" or "femininity" is pure garbage and misogynist. Pure and simple social construture to determine a gender by its sex and social roles. I will not prolong about this because I usually don't, I only kindly ask you to not say things like they're black or white. Everything has a spectrum and so does people. And if some chicks have "men's" voice, well, it is her voice, not a men's.
Yes, I'm a woman and yes, it is offensive.
As the same thing as saying "she's bitching" or "she's a bitch". No, don't do that.
Some terms are so offensive some people don't even realize it.

I don't give a fuck if you're offended. Why should I, or anyone else? Here, this guy sums it up pretty well.



It's not misogynist, you're just a moron. Men and women are different; deal with it. Humans evolved with males having the roles that involved battle. Men are larger, stronger, and their bodies are more suited to combat. For example the brow structure of men is designed to better deflect blows to sensitive eyes whereas women's eyes are designed to have better peripheral vision so they can better detect (and therefor, avoid) threats. Women can also detect colors better, which is why there's so many jokes about men not being able to tell the difference between mauve and purple. Women were evolved to notice more subtle color changes so they could tell safe food from not. Poison mushrooms from edible ones, or meat starting to go bad that will make people sick.

Men evolved as combatants and leaders. That was our role for 200,000 years. Our voices, like almost every other aspect of our gender, has a more commanding presence. You cannot undo two hundred thousand years of evolution by whining about a wage gap that doesn't exist or complaining that the word is "mailman" instead of "mailperson." Deal with it.

ZerebusPrime wrote:
I know the Reapers are supposed to be extremely patient and by rights should have shut down the mass relay network long before the allied fleets arrived at Earth.  The fleets would have been forced to FTL to wherever they were going to spend their ever dwindling fuel supplies and still not get anywhere on the galactic scale in a reasonable amount of time.  Either the Reapers couldn't shut down the network in time or they chose not to.  If the former, I want to know why.  If the latter, then the Reapers wanted that allied fleet to show up because thanks to the Illusive Man they had to know it was coming.  I find it difficult to rationalize other scenarios.

It's been quite a while since I've played the game, but I don't recall actually killing any capital ships in ME3 outside of the codex regarding the fighting at Palaven.  The Leviathans enthralled/incapacitated one in their DLC.  In the battle for Earth we see one lose some of its "fingers" but that was it, wasn't it?

There was supposed to be a sidestory about why they couldn't shut down the relay network but it was cut for time along with things like the "killed rachni queen in 1" version of Utukku that isn't extremely stupid and convoluted. I'd imagine it has to do with how badly the Protheans screwed up the Keepers. If Vigil had a disc to get complete control of the Citadel, it shows the Protheans were deep into the Citadel's workings. They may have sabotaged the mechanism so badly that even the Reapers couldn't easily fix it.

"In the next hour: Victory on Noveria. Spirits are high as a Reaper capital ship goes down." - random news broadcast

The codex also talks about how many dreadnoughts it takes to bring down a capital ship in conventional combat. They obviously got that data from somewhere, though it may have been the Noveria incident they never elaborated on. I don't know why 4+ dreadnoughts would be defending Noveria though. I'd imagine Noveria used the WMD that they use to 'neutralize' a rogue scientific facility. ME1 mentioned Noveria having antimatter warheads. A single gram of antimatter is capable of producing a 43 kiloton blast, so those weapons are incredibly powerful and of a type that the Reapers are not very well defended against.

Anyway, the one losing a tentacle in the assault on Earth. We only saw him lose a tentacle, but he was as good as dead. His shields had been depleted and 99.999% of the battle is bringing down their shields. Once their shield is down, their hull might as well be made of cotton candy. Remember what the SR-1 did to Sovereign in a single shot. And if you look closely, you can see that Reaper has taken extensive damage besides the leg. It has many major hull breaches and one of the two towering structures on top have been blown off. Is definitely done for, it's just a matter of moments until it takes a hit in a critical spot.
There's simply too many dreadnoughts in that battle for the Reapers not to lose multiple capital ships - and losing even one means the entire cycle wasn't worth it.

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Remember folks.  We didn't get A, B, C endings.  We got A, A, A endings.
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Rifneno
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