Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

by **spotlessvoid** Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:51 pm

what exactly proves their point in destroy?

by Master Blaster Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:49 am

spotlessvoid wrote:what exactly proves their point in destroy?

Organics can never get along with synthetics.
The cycle will start over.
and that Organics will stop at nothing to destroy synthetics.

But in these dark times i wouldn't give a shit about what it thought. It caused the chain of events to unfold. Though under it's prime directive it found ways to go about hindering it like EDi can do. It could have found other ways to have organics and synthetics get along, but it went to far and caused the cycles to happen. In it's own view it played god. It tried to create a system to have the best of the best organics be preserved into Harbinger like Reapers, while the other organics that were advance be chosen at a random Reaper form. It then used synthetics to kill organics and to start up more wars. We have not a clue if organics and synthetics at one point in the past cycles DID in fact get along and lived in peace, but the catalyst would view it as " Since they are not equal in all areas then the peace won't last". So the harvest still happens.

Now at this stage we have made peace with our synthetics but the catalyst imo is using the synthetics as a hostage to not have Shepard pull the trigger. If Shepard does then it only proves organics and synthetics can never get along. What i have to say from that is, in reality nobody gets along forever. Even families and friends have their fall-outs. It would be like saying since humanity can't agree to disagree with one another we all deserved to be killed/harvested because we will doom ourselves in the end. Could it be true maybe, but we decided our fate, and we decide to either learn from the past or not. Moreover nothing last forever but it's worth it just to prove to everyone that peace can happen yet it is up to the next generations to uphold all that has been done to have peace.

by **spotlessvoid** Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:48 am

except that's not what destroy proves at all.

Organics can get along with synthetics. The Reapers are the ones who back the galaxy into a corner where there is no alternative way to survive. The only thing it proves is the Reapers can't get along with anyone.

by Guest Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:04 am

I think the idea is that whatever synthetics are made, will eventually get to Reaper level anyway if not controlled.

But who cares. *shoots tube* :D

I'm willing to wait the 10s or 100s (or more) of years to get to Reaper level of advancement.

by Master Blaster Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:05 am

spotlessvoid wrote:except that's not what destroy proves at all.

Organics can get along with synthetics. The Reapers are the ones who back the galaxy into a corner where there is no alternative way to survive. The only thing it proves is the Reapers can't get along with anyone.

I know that but it is what generally speaking, what people see it as.

by Hanako Ikezawa Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:29 am

spotlessvoid wrote:except that's not what destroy proves at all.

Organics can get along with synthetics. The Reapers are the ones who back the galaxy into a corner where there is no alternative way to survive. The only thing it proves is the Reapers can't get along with anyone.

I never said I agreed with it. Quite the opposite in fact. I was showing why thinking that is flawed.

by TurianRebel212 Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:56 am

The Catalyst is full of shit and a liar and so is it's thesis. When you bring peace between the Geth and Quarian that's game set match right there in the derpy reapers argument of "Da Chaos Dawg". Obviously it is the Reapers and Derpy Space Brat who are behind the evolutionary curve, NOT Shepard and pals. Fuck the reapers and fuck Derpy Space Brat!

by dorktainian Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:18 pm

Take starjar at face value. Then throw him out the airlock.

Synthesis? seriously?
Control? Seriously?

I don't give a shite about saving the Geth. This aint about saving them, and ultimately some must be sacrificed to save the majority. Do you have the stones to make that decision? because if you don't and then choose control or synthesis we're all screwed.

away from a literal interpretation..... open your mind and breathe......

by **spotlessvoid** Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:16 pm

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
spotlessvoid wrote:except that's not what destroy proves at all.

Organics can get along with synthetics. The Reapers are the ones who back the galaxy into a corner where there is no alternative way to survive. The only thing it proves is the Reapers can't get along with anyone.
I never said I agreed with it. Quite the opposite in fact. I was showing why thinking that is flawed.

i wasn't responding to you

by DSharrah Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:36 pm

Perhaps a better way to look at Destroy is this...

Your aim, your goal is destroy REAPERS - a combination of synthetic/organic that is bent on harvesting both. And supposedly a consequence of that action is that there is collateral damage that includes synthetics.

Now I always find it interesting that catalyst only tries to say that synthetics will be killed with the destroy choice - its never explained how destroy will actually work, leading the to this inevitable conclusion. And it carefully omits the fact that there may be organic collateral as well. Destroy could be that it sends a signal that overloads/explodes the Reapers (and synthetics too) - which would mean that anyone close enough would be caught in the explosion. Hell, even with what we are shown with Reapers simply "falling dormant" there could be significant collateral damage - ground troops could be squashed, a Reaper falling out of orbit could create a huge amount of devastation if it fell to ground (remember what the impact of the asteroid would have had on Terra Nova in Bring Down the Sky). But all of this curiously omitted as a consequence of that choice...why? Could it be because what we are told is only a manipulation...meant to make you pause and think of the enormous consequences...meant to make you feel the weight of the guilt attached to the decision that you have to make...to give your imagination a place to start with the slightest bit of urging to let it run wild?

Of course destroy will have its consequences...all decisions have pros and cons...to think that destroy does not, would be silly. But that doesn't mean that the cons will outweigh the pros and that it shouldn't be the decision to be made.

by Hanako Ikezawa Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:43 pm

spotlessvoid wrote:
Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
spotlessvoid wrote:except that's not what destroy proves at all.

Organics can get along with synthetics. The Reapers are the ones who back the galaxy into a corner where there is no alternative way to survive. The only thing it proves is the Reapers can't get along with anyone.
I never said I agreed with it. Quite the opposite in fact. I was showing why thinking that is flawed.

i wasn't responding to you

Sorry. Just felt I should say something since it was after my post that you asked a question involving how does Destroy prove that, so thought it was towards me.

by Ithurael Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:53 pm

Hey guys!! I just saw a post on BSN (or whatever it is) asking for gamer input on ME3 and the debacle that followed. I thought I should let you all know as I think your input would really help the study

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/512695-request-for-help-with-research-into-the-mass-effect-3-ending/

by DSharrah Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:15 pm

Just took the survey...must be a sucker. When I really think about it, I don't know if that much has changed for me as a consumer...now if ME4 happens to shit on us again, who knows.

Took the opportunity in the optional questions to really push IT...I would suggest that more do the same.

by Guest Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:16 am

"Your aim, your goal is destroy REAPERS"

My Shepard just kept talking about stopping the Reapers, and had to destroy them along the way because hell, fight-or-flight. War, and all that. He also kept talking about fighting Reapers.. or dying.

Well Control kills him, so there's that. He chooses to die there, true to his previous words. But I just wanted to say a reminder that Shepard does not necessary make his goal to be destroying Reapers. Its what he 'does', and its what people know him for, and its what his closer allies want - but he also does other stuff in his life than just kill Reapers, he's also known for other being other things (he may have killed Sovereign, but he also saved many people; these are different but connected consequences), and he also knows other people that don't strongly *want* the Reapers dead, but just want them to at least stop all this Reaping. We don't see Liara, for example, fixate on *destroying* the Reapers. She just wants the Reapers to stop and for there to be a galaxy that isn't ruined at the end of all this. Good ol' Javik can remind her to steel her resolve, but regardless, that's her stance.

ME3's script is pretty interesting.

by Guest Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:21 am

Watched a Let's Play of ME3 finish. He had Tali dead from ME2, the Genophage Cure with Wrex and Eve (Mordin dying), the Quarians die on Rannoch, Liara romance, and he chose Destroy so the Geth and EDI went as well. He had rather high EMS (especially from MP sessions) so he had the breath scene (EC), and the whole thing gave him, and myself as a viewer, the feeling that Shepard really really isn't 'over', and that there are further adventures to come. It was cool seeing him freak out at the breath, because (at least as long as he's not lying about this being a blind playthrough) he didn't know it was going to happen, and was at least *prepared* for Shepard being dead.

Guess all it takes is all pieces of DLC for a player to not be mad at ME3's story. Thanks EA.

EDIT: Thanks for the survey. I completed it too.

by DSharrah Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:43 am

SwobyJ wrote:"Your aim, your goal is destroy REAPERS"

My Shepard just kept talking about stopping the Reapers, and had to destroy them along the way because hell, fight-or-flight. War, and all that. He also kept talking about fighting Reapers.. or dying.

Well Control kills him, so there's that. He chooses to die there, true to his previous words. But I just wanted to say a reminder that Shepard does not necessary make his goal to be destroying Reapers. Its what he 'does', and its what people know him for, and its what his closer allies want - but he also does other stuff in his life than just kill Reapers, he's also known for other being other things (he may have killed Sovereign, but he also saved many people; these are different but connected consequences), and he also knows other people that don't strongly *want* the Reapers dead, but just want them to at least stop all this Reaping. We don't see Liara, for example, fixate on *destroying* the Reapers. She just wants the Reapers to stop and for there to be a galaxy that isn't ruined at the end of all this. Good ol' Javik can remind her to steel her resolve, but regardless, that's her stance.

ME3's script is pretty interesting.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying...the statement you quoted was in reference to specifically the choice of destroy...not necessarily a reflection of the entire game. Simply that in the moment that you choose destroy - your aim is squarely on the Reapers, not necessarily on killing all synthetics...and this was in response to the discussion going on about the question of whether or not you are "proving" the catalyst's point about "conflict b/w organic and synthetic" being inevitable...and therefore if you choose destroy "the Reaper's win".

by ZerebusPrime Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:00 am

My goal is to burn the Reapers. To death.

Funny that ME3 left me feeling like that goal was incomplete.

by Guest Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:46 am

DSharrah wrote:
I think you misunderstood what I was saying...the statement you quoted was in reference to specifically the choice of destroy...not necessarily a reflection of the entire game. Simply that in the moment that you choose destroy - your aim is squarely on the Reapers, not necessarily on killing all synthetics...and this was in response to the discussion going on about the question of whether or not you are "proving" the catalyst's point about "conflict b/w organic and synthetic" being inevitable...and therefore if you choose destroy "the Reaper's win".

Ah, ok. My mistake.

Yeah, my thing was that as far as the Reapers would think, they have ideologically won. However, in the literal ending, picking Destroy basically says 'fuck your logic, fuck your assertions, you'll be dead before you can gloat about being right anyway'.

ZerebusPrime wrote:My goal is to burn the Reapers. To death.

Funny that ME3 left me feeling like that goal was incomplete.

Me too. Too airy. Too dreamy. Weird original ending.

by ZerebusPrime Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:46 pm

Ithurael wrote:Hey guys!! I just saw a post on BSN (or whatever it is) asking for gamer input on ME3 and the debacle that followed. I thought I should let you all know as I think your input would really help the study

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/512695-request-for-help-with-research-into-the-mass-effect-3-ending/

Took the survey. I find I am less eloquent about my thoughts regarding ME3's ending than I was back in 2012. It's been an age.

by Hanako Ikezawa Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:40 pm

SwobyJ wrote:Watched a Let's Play of ME3 finish. He had Tali dead from ME2, the Genophage Cure with Wrex and Eve (Mordin dying), the Quarians die on Rannoch, Liara romance, and he chose Destroy so the Geth and EDI went as well. He had rather high EMS (especially from MP sessions) so he had the breath scene (EC), and the whole thing gave him, and myself as a viewer, the feeling that Shepard really really isn't 'over', and that there are further adventures to come. It was cool seeing him freak out at the breath, because (at least as long as he's not lying about this being a blind playthrough) he didn't know it was going to happen, and was at least *prepared* for Shepard being dead.

Guess all it takes is all pieces of DLC for a player to not be mad at ME3's story. Thanks EA.

EDIT: Thanks for the survey. I completed it too.

Do you have a link to this Let's Play?

by Hanako Ikezawa Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Ithurael wrote:Hey guys!! I just saw a post on BSN (or whatever it is) asking for gamer input on ME3 and the debacle that followed. I thought I should let you all know as I think your input would really help the study

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/512695-request-for-help-with-research-into-the-mass-effect-3-ending/

I took it.

by Guest Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:44 am

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
SwobyJ wrote:Watched a Let's Play of ME3 finish. He had Tali dead from ME2, the Genophage Cure with Wrex and Eve (Mordin dying), the Quarians die on Rannoch, Liara romance, and he chose Destroy so the Geth and EDI went as well. He had rather high EMS (especially from MP sessions) so he had the breath scene (EC), and the whole thing gave him, and myself as a viewer, the feeling that Shepard really really isn't 'over', and that there are further adventures to come. It was cool seeing him freak out at the breath, because (at least as long as he's not lying about this being a blind playthrough) he didn't know it was going to happen, and was at least *prepared* for Shepard being dead.

Guess all it takes is all pieces of DLC for a player to not be mad at ME3's story. Thanks EA.

EDIT: Thanks for the survey. I completed it too.
Do you have a link to this Let's Play?

https://youtu.be/x4leKTAbr1E

by Hanako Ikezawa Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:55 am

SwobyJ wrote:
Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
SwobyJ wrote:Watched a Let's Play of ME3 finish. He had Tali dead from ME2, the Genophage Cure with Wrex and Eve (Mordin dying), the Quarians die on Rannoch, Liara romance, and he chose Destroy so the Geth and EDI went as well. He had rather high EMS (especially from MP sessions) so he had the breath scene (EC), and the whole thing gave him, and myself as a viewer, the feeling that Shepard really really isn't 'over', and that there are further adventures to come. It was cool seeing him freak out at the breath, because (at least as long as he's not lying about this being a blind playthrough) he didn't know it was going to happen, and was at least *prepared* for Shepard being dead.

Guess all it takes is all pieces of DLC for a player to not be mad at ME3's story. Thanks EA.

EDIT: Thanks for the survey. I completed it too.
Do you have a link to this Let's Play?
https://youtu.be/x4leKTAbr1E

Thank you.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:42 pm

Hey guys, been away for a while. Spent nine days in Rome, it was fucking awesome.

I see I've missed some solid debating while I was gone! Nice.

There's some things I'd like to reply to, will do so later.

by Pascal219 Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:45 pm

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=897038

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/18/biowares-green-cloud-rated-15-in-australia

Dare we hope? Or another trolling attempt?

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