So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

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When do you think the Hallucination starts.

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by draconian139 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:54 am

I've thought Harbinger blast for nearly a year now, but after reading this thread I'm starting to lean towards the Mako crash.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by invetro on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:02 am

The Mako crash. I thought the cause of the crash would be explained in the EC, but it wasn't, and they have to drive under the defunct Destroyers legs if I remember correctly.

And no one even questions it, like they had drunk Bob the driver at the wheel or something, and that's just what drunk Bob the driver does when he has VIPs on board and has the most important job of life happening at that very moment.

Drunk Bob: *spills whisky everywhere* *reaches under the seat for more and drives into a pile of rubble*
Shepard: *leaps out of Mako* CHEARGE!

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by SML93 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:57 am

how would the mako crash, the thing could climb mountians in mass effect 1
no amount of rumble could stop it from climbing. quick thing about arrival,
that batarian who had the citadel codes and the batarian fleet said shepard did arrival regardless if he did or not
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by draconian139 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:02 am

SML93 wrote:how would the mako crash, the thing could climb mountians in mass effect 1
no amount of rumble could stop it from climbing. quick thing about arrival,
that batarian who had the citadel codes and the batarian fleet said shepard did arrival regardless if he did or not

Pretty sure he just blamed humans in general on my playthrough.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by RavenEyry on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:34 am

Byne wrote:I've seen people try to explain Harby not shooting the Normandy by claiming it was because of the IFF, but firstly, Harby has eyes. He can see Normandy. Secondly, the IFF never once stopped the Reapers from chasing you if you scanned a system too many times. Thirdly, even supposing Harby cant see through his eyes, having Shepard's squadmates board a Reaper (a Reaper he knows shouldnt be there) would be a bit suspicious. Harby would realize what was up.
Ah yes, the IFF. The go to answer to explain everything. I've seen someone explaining the Normandy crashed despite not being reaper tech because of the IFF. Yes, the shorting out of an A4 sized thingy is enough to break the engines of a top of the line military vessel apparently.


On a lighter note, Anderson having an IFF under his hat is the explanation for him reaching the citadel unscathed.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Hrothdane on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:46 am

draconian139 wrote:I've thought Harbinger blast for nearly a year now, but after reading this thread I'm starting to lean towards the Mako crash.

The Harbinger beam is just such an obvious "something's up here" moment, and the follow-up is when things get REALLY obviously dreamlike. I'm still leaning towards the beam myself, but I agree that people are bringing up some good points for the Mako crash.

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Avin180 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:57 am

Errr, haven't played in a while now, which point exactly is the Mako crash?
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by RavenEyry on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:01 am

Avin180 wrote:Errr, haven't played in a while now, which point exactly is the Mako crash?
Might just be a generic transport but we say mako for convenience. Anyway, just before the beam run Shep and Anderson are having a nice chat during transit, but then there's a sudden lurch and cut to black. You then see everyone crawling out of the overturned vehicle with no sign of whatever hit it and everyone stares at the beam without a single comment along the lines of 'What the heck just happened'. Then the charge begins.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Raistlin Majere on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:01 am

Avin180 wrote:Errr, haven't played in a while now, which point exactly is the Mako crash?

Edit: Ninja

You get in a Mako to drive past the Destroyer you just took out at the end of the London level. You then see the inside of the Mako, a little banter and then suddenly shake and cut to black. Next scene Shepard and co are getting out of the crashed Mako, no explanation ever given as to how it crashed.



Last edited by Raistlin Majere on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Avin180 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:42 am

Raistlin Majere wrote:
Avin180 wrote:Errr, haven't played in a while now, which point exactly is the Mako crash?

Edit: Ninja

You get in a Mako to drive past the Destroyer you just took at the end of the London level. You then see the inside of the Mako, a little banter and then suddenly shake and cut to black. Next scene Shepard and co are getting out of the crashed Mako, no explanation ever given as to how it crashed.


Ah, thanks, well that does seem like an amazing part to start the indoctrination.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Terramine on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:23 pm

Andromidius wrote:Mako Crash is the most likely for me.

Harbinger's beam is also a likely suspect.

Cronos Station is another (more faint) possibility, but high on the possibility of starting the 'waking nightmare'.
I still don't get why it's called waking nightmare... My sister hallucinates Demons, is she having a waking nightmare or just hallucinating? Simple fact: Hallucinations are when you are awake, not when you are unconscious. Ergo it's NOT a waking nightmare, it's just hallucinations when you are more fully aware.

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by RavenEyry on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:26 pm

IronicParticle wrote:I still don't get why it's called waking nightmare... My sister hallucinates Demons, is she having a waking nightmare or just hallucinating? Simple fact: Hallucinations are when you are awake, not when you are unconscious. Ergo it's NOT a waking nightmare, it's just hallucinations when you are more fully aware.
Hallucination is a misnomer for the main thread but I think Byne did it on purpose because 'Was the ending a dream' would've been dismissed out of hand by even more people.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by draconian139 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:37 pm

Its probably been mentioned before but couldn't the location of the Mako crash make sense of both the Reaper cables and the rubble in the scene when Shepard wakes up? The presence of both always bothered me but considering how we were so close to the downed Reaper maybe we got thrown even closer to it and its the source of the cables.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Eryri on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:48 pm

Thanks for all the replies guys.

SML93 wrote:how would the mako crash, the thing could climb mountians in mass effect 1
no amount of rumble could stop it from climbing.

Indeed. Not only could the Mako climb near vertical mountains on planets as hot as Venus, it even had little rockets to launch itself into the air to jump over obstacles. Yet somehow a ditch in London is enough to put it out of action?

@ invetro I laughed out loud at Drunk Bob the Mako Driver. Laughing
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by RavenEyry on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:49 pm

The mako even survives the normandy crash fully intact. You can put the monument next to it.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Terramine on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:49 pm

RavenEyry wrote:
IronicParticle wrote:I still don't get why it's called waking nightmare... My sister hallucinates Demons, is she having a waking nightmare or just hallucinating? Simple fact: Hallucinations are when you are awake, not when you are unconscious. Ergo it's NOT a waking nightmare, it's just hallucinations when you are more fully aware.
Hallucination is a misnomer for the main thread but I think Byne did it on purpose because 'Was the ending a dream' would've been dismissed out of hand by even more people.
But we all agree that Shepard is only dreaming during the ending, right? Where exactly is debatable, but we all at least think Cronos is the smallest possibility... any moment before that was at least NOT a dream, right?

Regardless of where you place the beginning of the "dream", seeing something that isn't there while awake is a hallucination. We don't think the whole game is a dream right? So the kid at the beginning and other such things are hallucinations. If you think it begins at the Mako crash then anything before that is simply Hallucinations from the indoctrination side effects.

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by RavenEyry on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:53 pm

Overlay theory is a sub theory where it's pure hallucination.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Terramine on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:00 pm

RavenEyry wrote:Overlay theory is a sub theory where it's pure hallucination.
I know, I don't think it's pure hallucination. Is there a difference between WNT and OT? Or are they the same thing?

All I am saying is I don't understand why anyone calls hallucinations a "waking nightmare" when "hallucination" is the official term for seeing stuff that isn't there :P

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by draconian139 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:59 pm

I always sort of looked at the "waking nightmare" part and thought of Shepard sleepwalking. Also, some people do think that the entire game is a dream, I don't though.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Maximus on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:30 pm

draconian139 wrote:I always sort of looked at the "waking nightmare" part and thought of Shepard sleepwalking. Also, some people do think that the entire game is a dream, I don't though.

I CONSIDER such possibility. Doesn't mean I like it or I'm happy about it, no.
There's just too many apparent "bad reiting, Hurr, durr" in ME3. How else would you explain that EVERY Reaper Dreadnought looks like Sovereign, while we all clearly see in ME2 ending, that every Reaper is unique? I was VERY surprised the first time I launched ME3 Demo, that it was Sovereign who destroyed that Alliance building when Shepard was "interrogated". After that, it was even worse. More Sovereigns came down from the sky! WTF?! Then another WTF?! part was with QEC while I played Full game the first time. Thought there are only two QEC's. One on the Normandy, second with The Illusive Man. Ah, OK. Reused Assets? Being Lazy? Possible, but I believe in BioWare, and i doubt they are lazy writers and programmers. I BELIEVE that they perfectly know what are they doing, and every anomaly IS an anomaly, not a result of "Bad reiting" or "being lazy".

My faith in them may turn out to be wrong, though.

Still, if I had to pick where the Hallucination began based on more...solid evidence, then I would point:
1. Third Dream
2. Mako Crash
3. Harby's Deathray

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by RavenEyry on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:36 pm

CorranusMaximus wrote:How else would you explain that EVERY Reaper Dreadnought looks like Sovereign, while we all clearly see in ME2 ending, that every Reaper is unique?
Not EVERY reaper was unique, but yeah it seems they retconned the multiple models for the sake of them all looking like leviathans, which weren't even introduced in the main game. Very odd.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by Eryri on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:45 pm

RavenEyry wrote:
CorranusMaximus wrote:How else would you explain that EVERY Reaper Dreadnought looks like Sovereign, while we all clearly see in ME2 ending, that every Reaper is unique?
Not EVERY reaper was unique, but yeah it seems they retconned the multiple models for the sake of them all looking like leviathans, which weren't even introduced in the main game. Very odd.

They also made Harbinger's model less unique, which annoyed me. In ME2 Harbinger had an extra spine on his "back" (perhaps dorsal surface is more accurate), almost as though his missing front leg had been moved back and up.

In ME3 that spine was removed, so he's just another Sovereign class reaper with a missing front leg.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by dorktainian on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:14 pm

if sheps on earth, when he is in the kodiak approaching the base he's shot down... you know before you get to the qec that magically knows where everyone is and who they are?

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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by FreewheelinDylan on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:19 pm

Harbinger's Beam for sure.

Keep in mind, it's not all hallucination. I'm pretty sure Anderson and TIM die. Reality+Hallucinations start to mix at that point (forced schizophrenia). For example, on the Derelict Reaper ship, the scientists could see ghostly presences coming through the walls. Imo, that's what is happening to Shepard.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

Post by megan3c on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:33 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:
Avin180 wrote:Errr, haven't played in a while now, which point exactly is the Mako crash?

Edit: Ninja

You get in a Mako to drive past the Destroyer you just took out at the end of the London level. You then see the inside of the Mako, a little banter and then suddenly shake and cut to black. Next scene Shepard and co are getting out of the crashed Mako, no explanation ever given as to how it crashed.


I was leaning towards Harbinger's beam, but rewatching, things do start to look odd as soon as the Mako crashes. Just boom, then immediate cut to black, and then you don't even see them climb out of the Mako, just shows them standing by it, then running off. Which is odd to me, usually the cutscenes where you crash or fall there's no cut to black, there's a scene of you struggling to get back up or climbing out of the wreckage. And no one even asks, "What the HELL was that?! Everyone okay?!" like you'd expect.
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Re: So, when do you think the Hallucination starts? UPDATED WITH POLL

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