(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:04 pm

Jusseb wrote:Don't think that is going to happen. They wanted ME:A to be for everyone so they just ignored the fans and everything that happened before and start fresh. That way everyone can get in and the ME name will trigger the fanbase that didn't turned their backs on them.



All 37 of them?

Sorry, I'm being facetious. Seriously though, I don't think this (entirely hypothetical) scenario would be a difficult sell to new players. All they would need to know is that the apocalypse has come, and humanity lost a war against a race of alien machines. Earth is a wasteland, and the last vestige of humanity and a few other species have somehow escaped to a distant galaxy. Only to be chased by this evil dude working for the machines named Baltar... ahem, sorry 'Shepard' who's become "more machine now than man... Twisted and evil."

If you play as the default, synthesis, world-state and don't know any better, you have to fight and kill Shepard part-way through the game and feel awesome for beating the treacherous bad guy. If you import a control save you can persuade him to kill himself, and if you chose Destroy you get to redeem him and fight alongside him in the final battle against the real Big Bad.
Spoiler:
The human Reaper maybe? I put this in spoiler tags on the very, very, very slim chance that I'm right.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:54 pm

Eryri wrote:
Jusseb wrote:Don't think that is going to happen. They wanted ME:A to be for everyone so they just ignored the fans and everything that happened before and start fresh. That way everyone can get in and the ME name will trigger the fanbase that didn't turned their backs on them.



All 37 of them?

Sorry, I'm being facetious. Seriously though, I don't think this (entirely hypothetical) scenario would be a difficult sell to new players. All they would need to know is that the apocalypse has come, and humanity lost a war against a race of alien machines. Earth is a wasteland, and the last vestige of humanity and a few other species have somehow escaped to a distant galaxy. Only to be chased by this evil dude working for the machines named Baltar... ahem, sorry 'Shepard' who's become "more machine now than man... Twisted and evil."

If you play as the default, synthesis, world-state and don't know any better, you have to fight and kill Shepard part-way through the game and feel awesome for beating the treacherous bad guy. If you import a control save you can persuade him to kill himself, and if you chose Destroy you get to redeem him and fight alongside him in the final battle against the real Big Bad.
Spoiler:
The human Reaper maybe? I put this in spoiler tags on the very, very, very slim chance that I'm right.

I seem to remember a rumor
spoiler?:
regarding piloting a reaper round the galaxy
a few months ago..  didn't pay it much attention because it sounds like a completely bonkers scenario...... Little did I know. I hope this isn't true to be fair.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:46 pm

Jusseb wrote:
dorktainian wrote:so maybe your choice at the end of the third game dictates exactly what powers / attitude the bad guy in the fourth game has? That might work, but there's still a shit tonne of whatthefuckery that needs answering.

How does that work? The new ME:A will get on the next-gen consoles. They already said that they don't plan to launch a remastered edition of all previous ME games. That is another confirmation that they will abandon the previous storyline.

No remaster, yes. That's a good point. But on the other side, someone at Microsoft (*cough* maybe Casey) had them make Mass Effect be the first game to release with their backwards compatibility. Still a good chance that the Mass Effect trilogy will be re-released digitally on the XBox One, just not PS4, so far.

So this, to me, is more like the middle ground between 'no' and 'yes' on the matter. The games will still be on current gen consoles in some way.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:47 pm

Jusseb wrote:Don't think that is going to happen. They wanted ME:A to be for everyone so they just ignored the fans and everything that happened before and start fresh. That way everyone can get in and the ME name will trigger the fanbase that didn't turned their backs on them.

You'll have to take my word for it, but I think I recall someone at Bioware describing the creation of DA Keep (as in the tools it offers to devs) to be for the use of their future titles as well. Of course no specifics on what future titles.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:57 pm


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:08 pm

Jusseb wrote:Don't think that is going to happen. They wanted ME:A to be for everyone so they just ignored the fans and everything that happened before and start fresh. That way everyone can get in and the ME name will trigger the fanbase that didn't turned their backs on them.



that's alot of assumptions. i seem to remember them talking up DA keep as an idea for all future franchises...

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:13 pm

noobcannon wrote:
Jusseb wrote:Don't think that is going to happen. They wanted ME:A to be for everyone so they just ignored the fans and everything that happened before and start fresh. That way everyone can get in and the ME name will trigger the fanbase that didn't turned their backs on them.



that's alot of assumptions.

No, it's ONE reasonably drawn conclusion. You see this:

noobcannon wrote:assuming everything after the me3 beam run is a "dream" we still don't know what the crucible is/does. pretty sure that has something to do with us being in andromeda, not building a fucking "ark". normandy crash landed on a jungle planet in andromeda, not the milky way imo

Now THAT is a lot of assumptions.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:19 pm

Re: Wormholes.... I have to say, I did get the visual impression that the character in the trailer was travelling through a wormhole.

Wouldn't be surprised if this is how we get to Andromeda. So lame.

Thing is though, if we can use a wormhole, then the Reapers can too. And they've been around a hell of a lot longer than us, so they'll know more about them and they'll know where to find them.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:27 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Re: Wormholes.... I have to say, I did get the visual impression that the character in the trailer was travelling through a wormhole.

It looked like a much more visually impressive version of what we saw when we went through the Omega-4 mass relay to me.  Which is really the only time we see what traveling through a relay looks like from that perspective.  I would say that if it's not a relay, it's some other form of mass effect-related travel that serves a similar function.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:38 pm

What if Andromeda is actually "Dark Space" and it's the Reapers home system.


What if the Crucible wasn't a super weapon.

But a highly evolved transportation device. A sort of uber advance galactic super highway. That can literally bend space.... And time.

And in order to pass through it.... One must first take a.... Crucible. Only the most unique beings can do this. And all who have come before Shepard have failed.

But.... Shepard is an anomaly.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by clennon8 on Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:12 pm

I'll bet anyone who wants to a dollar that it has nothing to do with the Crucible.  There will be no Normandy and no Shepard there.

As for wormholes, there's no way they got there via a man-made wormhole.  It could possibly be a freak of nature wormhole, but that seems preposterously fortuitous.  Maybe an artificial wormhole created by a mysterious entity on the other side?  That I could buy, but I'd put my money on them getting there the hard way.  A big ass ship traversing the void while (almost) everybody sleeps.  Which, don't get me wrong, has its own difficulties.  The static discharge issue being chief among them.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:14 pm

Regarding the potential space magicy-ness of the Crucible sending ships to Andromeda -

How about if the original designers of the Crucible were the ones to actually build an ark in which to go there the slow way around? They could even have gone at just under the speed of light to avoid the static build up problem, and relativistic time dilation would have meant it would have taken substantially less than 2.5 million subjective years to get there - perhaps a short enough time to make cryogenic suspension or a multigenerational ship viable?(can someone who knows physics do the maths on this please?)

However, before they left they seeded plans for the Crucible in the hope that later species would find it, build it, and join them in safety.

Once they actually got to Andromeda they built a partner device for the Crucible-modified Citadel to lock-on to instead of it's usual partner in Darkspace, so that it could function like a very powerful version of an ordinary mass relay - just over a much larger distance.

As a safe-guard the Crucible would perhaps also be programmed to exclude any Reapers - (maybe providing them with a reason to send indoctrinated agents through rather than go themselves).
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:01 pm

TurianRebel212 wrote:What if Andromeda is actually "Dark Space" and it's the Reapers home system.

Yeah, I suggested this too. We're Shepard after all, and we're going after the Reaper homebase, which isn't in Dark Space, but in Andromeda, because that's just a more interesting place to explore.

Not going to happen, though.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:04 pm

Truly, converting the Citadel itself into a galactic escape vehicle with a massive FTL engine add-on both makes the most sense and is least compatible with how ME3 played out. Head meets wall
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:46 pm

The ship in the trailer.  could it be cronos station?  I mean the station does move doesnt it?


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by clennon8 on Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:05 pm

Dark space is dark space, the void between galaxies.  The reapers didn't come all the way from Andromeda.  It would have taken them over 200 years.

Not sure why you're all obsessed with tying the ark ship to the Crucible.  It doesn't make sense.  If you're still here when the Crucible goes off, why not just stick around?  Why pile on a ship and blast yourself to Andromeda at that point?  No.  One way or another, the ark ship is already long gone by the time the Crucible is activated.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:24 am

We've gone over this. 200 years is nothing to a Reaper. They don't even seem to need to discharge their drive cores.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by clennon8 on Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:50 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:We've gone over this.  200 years is nothing to a Reaper.  They don't even seem to need to discharge their drive cores.

No duh. The point is that the timing doesn't even come close to working. The Reapers arrive, what, 3 years after the events of ME1? So that would mean they must have started out from Andromeda 200 and some odd years before the events of the first game? What was the point of the Alpha Relay then? And why are we calling Andromeda "dark space" again?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by invetro on Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:22 am

That's not a wormhole. I think it's the first person view you get when relay travelling. Wormholes are one of a few things that I loathed about the Star Trek universe, and I don't want them hanging out all over Mass Effect.

I want to go back to the crucible when it releases its "payload" across the milky way (and unfortunately look at this from a non-IT perspective for a second). Red, green and blue waves all altered the reapers, from destroying them to supposedly taming them. When we see the Normandy racing away from the blast, we never actually see it getting consumed. We see minor damage, then the ship is on that frikken planet. All planets that match the description of that one were too far from relays to be viable destinations for a fleeing Normandy if I recall correctly. That would be a plus point in favour of the crucible being some sort of hyper-relay.

But where it falls apart for me is that at the ass-end of a hyper-relay, the Normandy crew would not be able to hear Shepards fate on the Citadel to do the whole memorial wall scene. Then again, I have no idea how the quantum communicator would function at that distance, and all ships in the vicinity would have been theoretically zapped into Andromeda anyway. And why only ships? Why not planets? Can you imagine being on a picnic on your homeworld when suddenly Mars appears and destroys the gravitational balance of your entire system? Picnic ruined.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:19 am

clennon8 wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:We've gone over this.  200 years is nothing to a Reaper.  They don't even seem to need to discharge their drive cores.

No duh.  The point is that the timing doesn't even come close to working.  The Reapers arrive, what, 3 years after the events of ME1?  So that would mean they must have started out from Andromeda 200 and some odd years before the events of the first game?  What was the point of the Alpha Relay then?  And why are we calling Andromeda "dark space" again?

They can still have been parked in the space between the two galaxies after having made rounds in both. Or they could be in the space between stars in Andromeda with a simple retcon. There could be a mass relay chain between the two galaxies (as in 2 to 10000 relays bridging the gap) to facilitate rapid intergalactic movement with the alpha relay being one possible endpoint.

I think we're nitpicking semantics and missing each other's points. I admit the original foul in that regard.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by noobcannon on Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:57 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:
clennon8 wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:We've gone over this.  200 years is nothing to a Reaper.  They don't even seem to need to discharge their drive cores.

No duh.  The point is that the timing doesn't even come close to working.  The Reapers arrive, what, 3 years after the events of ME1?  So that would mean they must have started out from Andromeda 200 and some odd years before the events of the first game?  What was the point of the Alpha Relay then?  And why are we calling Andromeda "dark space" again?

They can still have been parked in the space between the two galaxies after having made rounds in both.  Or they could be in the space between stars in Andromeda with a simple retcon. There could be a mass relay chain between the two galaxies (as in 2 to 10000 relays bridging the gap) to facilitate rapid intergalactic movement with the alpha relay being one possible endpoint.  

I think we're nitpicking semantics and missing each other's points.  I admit the original foul in that regard.

doesn't liara talk about the harvest taking at least 100 years or so?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ViolentSound on Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:40 am

Yes, Liara does, I distinctly remember that scene

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Jusseb on Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:18 am

If the crucible is a transportation device there is a possibility that those "Remnants", as Bioware called them, could've build and used it a long time before we did.

You know the Reapers aren't actually 'dumb' things. They probably knew about the crucible plans all along. Maybe those 'Remnants' are another Collector edition of the Reapers waiting in Andromeda for whoever builds and use that thing.

At least that's a way to keep the Reapers the main villains.

I recall that the Citadel was a huge mass relay, combining it with the crucible could upgrade it to some super-duber-xxl mass relay.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:54 am

Pretty much. I mean, Javik basically tells you that The Crucible was sabotaged by indoctrinated agents in his cycle. And yet we find the schematics of the fucking thing on Mars.... Just as the Reapers are invading and it just so happens that someone very closely associated With Commander Shepard found them...... I mean. Come on now, I mean one coincidence or a couple, alright. But this game has so many major things that just seem to somehow find Shepard. Somehow.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:07 am

TurianRebel212 wrote:Pretty much. I mean, Javik basically tells you that The Crucible was sabotaged by indoctrinated agents in his cycle. And yet we find the schematics of the fucking thing on Mars.... Just as the Reapers are invading and it just so happens that someone very closely associated With Commander Shepard found them...... I mean. Come on now, I mean one coincidence or a couple, alright. But this game has so many major things that just seem to somehow find Shepard. Somehow.

You know who told Liara about the Crucible?  Glyph.  That super advanced piece of technology that's designed to be used by anyone that finds it without understanding how it works.  You know, just like the Citadel and the mass relays.  ...  Or the Crucible.  Huh.  Reaper tech always seems to fit that concise little description.

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