(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

dorktainian wrote:

DoomsdayDevice wrote:A ring of eezo around a black hole creates a wormhole because reasons.

that's even more fucking jumping the shark than our very own scary door.

here's a good one that deserves your scorn.  The OP is an idiot.

the indoctrination theory cannot be true...bullshit

The mouth breathers and knuckle draggers of BSN are truly hopeless. I have no idea how they
can honestly take the ending as terrible, Deus Ex ripoff face value or... IT. And honestly, IT makes so much sense.

The problem here is that you guys are still reading BullShitNetwork.

Ugh, no. There's so many things wrong with that post, I'm not even bothering.

BS.N, arrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggg.

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Ugh, no. There's so many things wrong with that post, I'm not even bothering.

BS.N, arrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggg.

That you even clicked the link is something else that's wrong.

I didn't even get beyond the second paragraph, but point taken.

Just found another top ten list of video game fan theories. Guess which one was number 2.



Shame they fuck it up by thinking that the indoctrination begins with the Prothean beacon though.

It kind of annoys me that every "game theories" includes IT, but not...

WARNING: NUCLEAR SPOILER FOR THE WITCHER (1)

Spoiler:

Yes, the game pretty much confirms that that's true and I'm sure that's why it's never on the lists.  But guess what?  So does ME3 and IT.  If ME3 is on the lists, TW1 should be too.

I'm encouraged by the fact that this top ten list seems to have been compiled from a public vote (at least I think it was, it's hard to tell as the site design is a bit weird). IT is still fairly popular out on the wider inter webs.

I am sure we talked already about it but.

1. The next ME game has no reason to make any sense. NO matter what time frame after ME1 there is NO way without having Cerberus not know about the ark ship; to have the ark ship even be made. The Reapers would have destroyed the thing without a second thought. Much how it is suspicious about the Reapers not attacking the crucible when there was many times they could have. I meant look at the charge attempt on the Citadel. Within minutes it was taken over. You mean to tell me that the Reapers can't find out where the largest weapon is being made?

2. WHO built the ark? No freaking away the council races got together to build an ark ship. They had NO BLUEPRINTS for it. Nor have the tech to go to another galaxy. Even IF they salvage Sov's core the implications are still there to consider. By installing and salvaging the Reaper core we could reawaken the Reaper. I am sure there shall be either a VI or AI in the ship system but they can be reprogrammed by Sov's. Not to mention how LONG it shall take to even counterfeit the core onto the ship. It took almost a year and a few extra-months for the Thanix cannons to be created. Took Cerberus nearly 2 years to rebuild the Normandy.

Though granted both projects were a single group, the problem still with this is...

2. ALL the SCIENTIST are on the project of the Crucible. i DOUBT they had enough time to make an Ark ship. Jacob even says in Lira's Shadow Broker message, that they are working day and night on this project. No way all of the best minds in the galaxy would be build a ark ship. There is just no way. Not to mention ALL resources are going into the crucible. The amount of resources going into the thing would make an entire fleet or 2 BUT it isn't. Thus this rules out any resource going into an Ark ship.

3. The alliance leadership is all but dead. Hackett is the ONLY leadership in space that has the authority of all of the Alliance troops and citizens. I doubt he would just roll over and turn tail since he constantly talks about re taking Earth, and victory or death. There was NEVER any indication of the ark. Not to mention he believe in Shepard will see them through. One can say "He doesn't want to bring Shepard's moral down with all that is up stake" but Liara completely through this argument out when she talks about the 'What if plan".

4. ALL troops of each and EVERY special force it OUT fighting. What troops that of the elite special forces of N7 are going to go on this ark? I mean really? all council races, even the non council races special forces are GOING to EARTH to the "Turning point of this war" It even says the N5's and N6's are with the Alliance Marine division. N7 operatives are a mystery yes but Riley is with her team. Shepard. Vega, Anderson and Riley are the only STORY base N7's we know of that maybe be true. However at a time like this ALL troops are on deck.

5. FOOD. I mean it is not like this ark needs a FOOD supply you know. Granted the war assets does give boost of food rations Yet that is going to the re-take Earth battle and not the ARK. I mean if we are LOOKING for a planet though to call home.....you would THINK the NUMBER FUCKING one strategy is to FIND a planet that they already scanned for that has the ability to have life on..... You would THINK since this is about the survival of ALL races right? Not let us EXPLORE while there is a 'Reaper War" going on in which HEY they can find out about this Ark ship and come over!. If it is after the war then it makes even shit.

6. new weapons, new mako, and everything else..... REALLY....WHY ISN'T THIS GOING TO THE REAPER WAR!!!!!!!! * Side rant* I mean if this DOES take place during the war then wtf man. All this new TECH could aid in the war.....but we are sending it out to out space to uncover lost ancient tech to and find a new home???? First off if we do find ancient ruins then the number one question should be.... Who killed them off? I mean unless Bioware pulls a "REAPER" on us then face-palm BUT if it was because of the Reapers....then well we are fucked. Moreover.....

LIARA should have caught wind of this......She is the shadow broker or hell even traynor since she does a better job at tracking things....Kasumi too......These three should have over heard something...maybe even Miranda about this Ark ship IF it is pre end of ME3.

7..Shepard breath scene......that is a HUGE slap to the face to the fans....to go off to another galaxy YET leave Shepard to an unknown fate.....really? Granted IT but honestly that is just fucked up. If they wanted to do a story within the Reaper time frame war and play as a character during the war while Shepard is uniting the galaxy then AWESOME. THAT would have been better for, we can experience the theater of war, and at the end of the game we would tie into what is REALLY happening to Shepard in the end game run and then we shall have a Halo 5 thing.

Our Shepard is reborn, the "agent N7 guy/girl" shall attempt to help Shepard and find out what is going on. Then we will have options to play as Shepard or the new character back and forth but ultimately based on your choices this shall hinder Shepard in the end. If control Shepard will sometimes be conflicted, in synthesis Shepard will be under the Reapers full control, in Destroy Shepard is fine most of the time, in Refuse....Shepard is found DEAD.

Did Bioware actually ever apologize for the most horrifying ending in gaming history?
It isn't really hard to say; "Sorry guys, we fucked up. We're people to but we'll make it up to you".

Sometimes I wonder what would've happened to the series if they never joined EA but stayed with Microsoft.

@Master Blaster: A lot of what you said can be answered by something that came directly from Bioware.

"While we aren’t ready to go into too many details just yet, as you saw in the trailer and can tell by the name, this game is very much a new adventure, taking place far away from and long after the events of the original trilogy. You will play a human, male or female, though that’s actually not the character you saw in the trailer (more on that later). You’ll be exploring an all-new galaxy, Andromeda, and piloting the new and improved Mako you saw. And through it all, you will have a new team of adventurers to work with, learn from, fight alongside of, and fall in love with."

If we go by that then Bioware seems to be essentially ignoring the last 20% of ME3 completely and also leaving Shepard's fate possibly forever unknown. I really don't get Bioware on this one. They had such an amazing trilogy yet they refused to adjust the ending of the trilogy that seemed to be more unpopular than popular and instead they seem to be attempting to just brush it all to the side and hope nobody cares.

It almost sounds like a reboot of the game series, in a way. Even years later I still am annoyed by the way the trilogy concluded when I think about it like logging on here and browsing around lol. Bioware also seems to be going with new crew members also along with the new galaxy.

I think IT had such huge potential for more amazing stories to be told but Bioware seems to have not wanted to go that route which is their choice. It doesn't really matter about an Ark anymore as to how it was built. If we go by what Bioware said before then ME4 will take place long after the end of ME3 which would have given ample time to build an Ark.

I think Bioware should consider going the route of a Mass Effect MMO after ME4. MMO's are more lore based than story based and a lot of lore can be made up and can be strongly opinionated. A Mass Effect MMO would allow everyone to continue to explore the Mass Effect Universe, play freely as other species. It would also reduce the amount of story telling Bioware has to do since it's obvious they aren't as interested as they once were in telling an amazing story.

If they do it right, they could make a Mass Effect MMO that would make more money than the single player games do. I just want the Mass Effect Universe itself to live on and these single player games are years apart and if they fuck up the story then we're left to be annoyed by it etc. If they later go the route of a MMO then that would probably be the most productive route.

Sure they would lose some players that don't want to play a MMO but they would gain more players than they lost and they would be able to get away with a lot more when it comes to the story telling aspect. They could design each person's ship to be similar to player housing which is common in many MMOs but also a method of traveling to other planets like in the single player games.

The Mako and other vehicles could be used as mounts and for combat. The on foot combat should remain the same since the shooter style works for this game. The biggest change would be the open world aspect where things are wide open instead of being closed off pre-rendered instances.

This is just my opinion. I think IT would have been the best route to take originally but Bioware has made it abundantly clear that they intend to do what they want regardless of what anyone else wants. That's why I believe a MMO in the future would be the best direction for this game. If Bioware focused less on detailed cut scenes and dialog and more on level design then they could easily make each DLC be a new planet to explore and enjoy.

I know some will be against the idea of a MMO but that's just what I think could save this game. I don't believe ME4 will be a very big success. Some of us will play it because we long the Mass Effect Universe while some of us might wait and see that Bioware stuck to what they said and ME1,2,3 basically meant nothing and some people might decide to not buy ME4.

I've got plenty to do to occupy my free time, including other fun games but I would love a ME MMO more so than Bioware just ignoring ME1,2,3 and throwing out some other shit far into the future of the story line.

Jusseb wrote:Did Bioware actually ever apologize for the most horrifying ending in gaming history?
It isn't really hard to say; "Sorry guys, we fucked up. We're people to but we'll make it up to you".

Sometimes I wonder what would've happened to the series if they never joined EA but stayed with Microsoft.

Microsoft is no better than EA plus Microsoft isn't into games like EA is. If Mass Effect had stayed with Microsoft then ME1 probably would have been the only release of the series. Bioware stuck to their choices on ME3, if they ever apologized then I never heard about it. Instead Bioware decided to essentially ignore all of what happened in ME1,2,3 and have ME4 being set far into the future after the events of the trilogy.

Jusseb wrote:Did Bioware actually ever apologize for the most horrifying ending in gaming history?
It isn't really hard to say; "Sorry guys, we fucked up. We're people to but we'll make it up to you".

Sometimes I wonder what would've happened to the series if they never joined EA but stayed with Microsoft.

No, they did not apologize.  They defended their "artistic vision" and "artistic integrity."  Like the KKK defends their "freedom of speech."

I don't wonder what would've happened if they never joined EA, but I do wonder what would've happened if Karpyshyn had stuck around and we weren't screwed with Big Mac and Hudson trying to write.

Not saying Walters is a good writer, but Karpyshyn is an awful writer. Have you read his ME novels? I'm sorry if you did.

I'll agree ME1 has a more cohesive story. But first of all, that's just one aspect of storywriting, and second, I doubt we can credit Karpyshyn for it. Seems more like a BW team effort (on account of his solo novels) and perhaps the game as a whole, in all departments, being more conventional.

Similarly, I guess one could prefer ME1 over the sequels, in terms of its story being a neater tale of traditional heroism, including a classic angry villain that hates humans and a hero that gets up from the wreckage when we thought all hope was lost and all that jazz.

But ME2 and ME3 certainly surprised me more. Mostly for the better. And have more of a style of their own.

Let's just say that ME1 reminds me of the ME novels sometimes, and the sequels don't.

So no, I don't think Karpyshyn would've been ME's saving grace. Also, no way to find out for sure.

smash016 wrote:Not saying Walters is a good writer, but Karpyshyn is an awful writer. Have you read his ME novels? I'm sorry if you did.

Your taste is absolute shit.  Karpyshyn's novels were incredible.

Rifneno wrote:

smash016 wrote:Not saying Walters is a good writer, but Karpyshyn is an awful writer. Have you read his ME novels? I'm sorry if you did.

Your taste is absolute shit.  Karpyshyn's novels were incredible.

This guy's taste is smash'd... HAHA! ;>
Ever heard of 'Bane Trilogy?', Mr. smash'd? ;>

Some of the best Star Wars novels out there, in my humble opinion...
... and I read a humble few dozens of these... ;>

Judging from the covers...

Look man, if I want a novel I want a NOVEL. Not something that reads more like a computer game or a comic.

Yeah. I'm a snob. Fuck, why argue.

smash016 wrote:Judging from the covers...

Jesus Christ, are you literally judging a book by its cover?

What are you saying, Smash? That sci-fi games can be cerebral, but that sci-fi books are mostly just pulp?

That said, I've read a lot of Star Wars novels in the past (mostly out of compulsive curiosity), and I didn't really like any of them. Just certain aspects. Most of the EU is garbage, IMO, including the widely revered Thrawn trilogy.

I haven't read the Drew K. books though.

Not sure about "cerebral", but I find the Mass Effect games more appealing to the senses than to the mind. I guess that partly explains why I don't like the ME novels.

Take sci-fi classics. I never really liked Star Wars, Star Trek, that kind of stuff. More like Blade Runner, the first Alien movie. Not sure what the distinction is exactly, but there is a clear difference, right? Also why ME2 is probably my favorite, at least in terms of atmosphere.

smash016 wrote:Not sure about "cerebral", but I find the Mass Effect games more appealing to the senses than to the mind. I guess that partly explains why I don't like the ME novels.

Take sci-fi classics. I never really liked Star Wars, Star Trek, that kind of stuff. More like Blade Runner, the first Alien movie. Not sure what the distinction is exactly, but there is a clear difference, right? Also why ME2 is probably my favorite, at least in terms of atmosphere.

Star Wars and Star Trek well Star Wars was more over the top sci-fi action while Star Trek had a fairly mellow pace compared to other sci-fi. Blade Runner and Alien were more thought provoking and tense. Mass Effect began as a fairly slow pace, introducing new discoveries in the Universe in the game. As the story progressed, it did pick up its pace especially in ME2 and ME3 but it wasn't so much about a clear cut good guy versus bad guy because some of the bad guys had good intentions but simply went about things the wrong way.

Really Mass Effect would be a blend of all 4 of those movies you mentioned. It started out slow but told a good story and kept enough mystery to avoid telling too much too soon. I could go on in detail but in short really Mass Effect had a bit of everything in it except of course an ending on the trilogy that could make people happy lol.

Rifneno wrote:

smash016 wrote:Not saying Walters is a good writer, but Karpyshyn is an awful writer. Have you read his ME novels? I'm sorry if you did.

Your taste is absolute shit.  Karpyshyn's novels were incredible.

Really?  I dunno.  His Mass Effect novels are decent, I guess.  That's about the best thing I can say about any of the Mass Effect books, really.  Not a single one of them rises to the level of good, let alone "incredible."  Maybe his Star Wars stuff is better.

Maximus wrote:

Rifneno wrote:

smash016 wrote:Not saying Walters is a good writer, but Karpyshyn is an awful writer. Have you read his ME novels? I'm sorry if you did.

Your taste is absolute shit.  Karpyshyn's novels were incredible.

This guy's taste is smash'd... HAHA! ;>
Ever heard of 'Bane Trilogy?', Mr. smash'd? ;>

Some of the best Star Wars novels out there, in my humble opinion...
... and I read a humble few dozens of these... ;>

Agreed, just finished them. Zannah is awesome. I mean, she is really a Bad ass Bitch.

There needs to be a Zannah Star Wars movie, you could get maybe Amanda Seyfried to play her, I'd say maybe ScarJo but she's kinda getting old. I know it's called the Bane trilogy, but the series really delves into Zannah's story, along with other very memorable characters like Sett, The Huntress, Johun, Davovitt and many more. I was surprised at how much I cared about the side characters and not just Bane and Zannah. I even liked the Jedi characters.... And I find the Jedi, as a whole, stupid and dogmatic. I also liked Bane's sort of treasure hunting and gathering of Holocron's of great Sith Lords of yesteryear. It's really cool all the places he goes and if you've played Kotor or Sith Lords or Swotor you'll recognize most of them.

I think Darth Plagueis is the best Star Wars novel I've ever read, but the Bane Trilogy is fantastic.

But you know.... Drew K. can write......


Someone should have told Hudson and Mac "the hack" that.

southbeatz wrote:
Star Wars and Star Trek well Star Wars was more over the top sci-fi action while Star Trek had a fairly mellow pace compared to other sci-fi. Blade Runner and Alien were more thought provoking and tense. Mass Effect began as a fairly slow pace, introducing new discoveries in the Universe in the game. As the story progressed, it did pick up its pace especially in ME2 and ME3 but it wasn't so much about a clear cut good guy versus bad guy because some of the bad guys had good intentions but simply went about things the wrong way.

Really Mass Effect would be a blend of all 4 of those movies you mentioned. It started out slow but told a good story and kept enough mystery to avoid telling too much too soon. I could go on in detail but in short really Mass Effect had a bit of everything in it except of course an ending on the trilogy that could make people happy lol.

Yeah, something like this.

Star Wars is too "Disney" for me, while Star Trek is too nerdy and just... corny. Although part of that might be a zeitgeist and/or budget issue.

ME certainly took a load of sci-fi tropes from these series, which made ME1 lacking in originality. ME2 and ME3 have more of a unique style, though. Or sort of consolidate the style founded by the first game.

Blade Runner had these thought-provoking themes, yeah... like androids and transhumanism. EDI sort of represents those themes but I don't feel BW handled her particularly well. Bit of a missed opportunity, but still a very nice addition to the game.

Alien has the horror theme that always goes well with sci-fi. This sense of wonder, like... what's around the next corner in space? Could be something beautiful, or something... so incomprehensibly evil and above humanity, it gives you the chills. That's where the Reapers come in.

"Seeking to escape the imminent explosion of their sun, an alien race constructs an AI-managed starship equipped with supercomputers containing a virtual world, into which some one billion of the aliens transfer their consciousnesses. The starship begins a journey throughout the galaxy which lasts for the next 8,000 years. "

does anyone remember this.....

08/27/2010 - Alien "Ghost Ship" Saga Ends Under Veil of Secrecy

“The saga of the alien "ghost ship" has come to a surprising end. Earlier today, reports surfaced that the Citadel Council was prepared to rule against saving the ship, fearing its AI system was sophisticated enough to pose a "security threat of unknown dimensions." In response, chief scientist Jordan Detweiler inserted himself into the virtual alien world to warn its citizens of their civilization's imminent end. He returned one minute later -- apparently equal to half a year within the accelerated timeline of the alien world -- bringing a treaty offer from its inhabitants. At that point, details turn sketchy. One inside source claims the virtual aliens offered scientific advancements "far beyond anything we have" in return for assistance. A veil of secrecy was immediately erected, with Citadel intelligence agencies classifying the matter as top-secret. Rumors now have Jordan Detweiler embarking on a Council-sanctioned mission into the virtual world to make diplomatic contact.”


This screams sooo much like what is happening at the end of ME3, only an indoctrination attempt. But it does HELP support the idea of Shepard just being on Earth for just ONE minute or just a few seconds. Think about it. If it was just half a year within the virtual world, YET just one minute later the person came back.....this gives a good chance of Shepard not fully bleeding-out due to the events that shall happen.

This also puts an end to the literalist saying this all can't be happening in a virtual world or anything since one minute time frame was equal to that of half a year within. Thus we can assume that in just seconds of Shepard waking up was just actually almost an hour at best of him/her being indoctrinating and 'AGREEING" to terms


might not matter now BUT it is a food of thought.