(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
The fact that someone has an so called answer to any argument doesn't necessary make them a genius. They could very well be a smartass.
Jusseb- Geth Pyro
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them." - Casey Hudson
Rifneno- Honey Badger
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Jusseb wrote:The fact that someone has an so called answer to any argument doesn't necessary make them a genius. They could very well be a smartass.
Or they are just raving lunatics who see things that aren't there. Spin masters and cultists have that tendency to try fit anything and everything that disturbs them and then go onto console themselves as that was what it was always meant to be.
Rifneno wrote:"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them." - Casey Hudson
This is still great comic relief. If Hudson was honest he would admit to this.
Last edited by windsurfing on Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : multi quote)
windsurfing- Scion
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Rifneno wrote:"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them." - Casey Hudson
I so want to know what he was thinking when he said that.
ZerebusPrime- Space Cow
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
ZerebusPrime wrote:Rifneno wrote:"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them." - Casey Hudson
I so want to know what he was thinking when he said that.
I think that he doesn't even know by himself what he was thinking at that time.
Jusseb- Geth Pyro
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
ZerebusPrime wrote:Rifneno wrote:"It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them." - Casey Hudson
I so want to know what he was thinking when he said that.
Rifneno- Honey Badger
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Okay for some reason when I enter the Mass Effect subforum, or I make a new post, it redirects me to a pop up that I can only escape by ending Firefox's process through task manager. Just so people know.
Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
I said it after attempting to discuss Mass Effect Andromeda and being ignored. So obviously I'm being pretty genuine here. I AM tired of it. I mean shit, nobody actually addressed any of the points I brought up. Nobody wants to actually even try to discuss it. I full well know that it's because everybody is on their high horse, so self assured that I'm just wrong and crazy.Valsamon wrote:
2387 posts.
2387.
Be sure to let us know when you feel this has been dragging on and on enough won't you?
But I want to remind everyone that the frame of reference is that this is all about a video game. It's easy to think for instance that Synthesis supporters are just "retarded" because they don't know what they're talking about. But it's a fucking video game. People can not be considered dumb and incompetent for being wrong about something so trivial. The only reason Rif or any of you can be so condescending is under the purview that you know Mass Effect facts and they don't. But the truth is that it doesn't matter because Mass Effect doesn't matter. It is completely and totally trivial. So you're basically beating your chests about being trivially correct. For some reason you think it matters if you were to consider a radically different point of view.
You could seriously consider the possibility that Commander Shepard is really a Cow in a human suit yet ultimately it would be no big fucking deal. Because you aren't smart for being right about something that doesn't matter at all, and in that case you're not even stupid for being radically incorrect about it either. There is no such thing as intellectual superiority here. You could be on the extreme end of being wrong about it, and it'd be no worse than being on the extreme end of being right. Because either way it doesn't matter. It's all completely made up anyways, it's all someone else's imagination.
So to turn around and say I'm stupid for being open minded about MEA, is just sheer nonsense. Because even if I am actually wrong, it's no big deal. Just as it's no big deal if y'all are right. So I REALLY do not care if from y'alls perspective I am wrong because it wouldn't matter if you were right. There's no risk. There's no risk to me considering something outside the box that this forum asserts.
If I end up being wrong, it's not going down as some sort of serious mark on my intellectual history like believing in Creationism for example would.
Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Also if we really want to get to the heart of mine and y'alls' contention. It has to do with what we are willing to take.
I agreed with you guys that from the perspective of Original IT, with regards to what we ended up getting. There isn't just a plot hole, there's literally an entire chunk missing. The actual ending. From here yes, it's not palatable. Beyond that I do not at all agree with the "standards" that you guys adhere to. I get that Mass Effect is known for it's extensive basis in actual science, and it's track record for consistency and thoroughness.
But it's not that Andromeda doesn't make sense. As someone already pointed out Bioware no doubt has their explanations for things. There is a thought process behind Andromeda. Maybe it involves a lot of stretches, redundancies, etc. But ultimately it "makes sense". Even if it's in a very intellectually lazy way.
For you guys, that's a no-sale. A no-go. For me I just cannot seem to care enough. Science fiction has always been a mixed bag of brilliant scientific creativity VS intellectual laziness.
Rick and Morty draws so much attention to exactly this with all it's references, parodies, and ultimately it's own method of creativity. As the show runs along you have all these nonsense things with nonsense names pop up. Like the "Plumbus", a penis looking device that serves some nonsensically contrived purpose. Most the alien species are based on testicles, etc. The show is very whimsical in it's creativity. But at the same time it still manages to capture the essence of the Techno Babble that is so common within the science-fiction genre.
The point ultimately being that you can deviate strongly from established science and it's still very much enjoyable. So why should I care if Mass Effect takes a left turn into being less grounded in science? Does it actually render it completely unenjoyable? Not for me. There is still so much other shit about the Mass Effect franchise to enjoy, and even something about this whole Andromeda situation that appeals to me personally.
I agreed with you guys that from the perspective of Original IT, with regards to what we ended up getting. There isn't just a plot hole, there's literally an entire chunk missing. The actual ending. From here yes, it's not palatable. Beyond that I do not at all agree with the "standards" that you guys adhere to. I get that Mass Effect is known for it's extensive basis in actual science, and it's track record for consistency and thoroughness.
But it's not that Andromeda doesn't make sense. As someone already pointed out Bioware no doubt has their explanations for things. There is a thought process behind Andromeda. Maybe it involves a lot of stretches, redundancies, etc. But ultimately it "makes sense". Even if it's in a very intellectually lazy way.
For you guys, that's a no-sale. A no-go. For me I just cannot seem to care enough. Science fiction has always been a mixed bag of brilliant scientific creativity VS intellectual laziness.
Rick and Morty draws so much attention to exactly this with all it's references, parodies, and ultimately it's own method of creativity. As the show runs along you have all these nonsense things with nonsense names pop up. Like the "Plumbus", a penis looking device that serves some nonsensically contrived purpose. Most the alien species are based on testicles, etc. The show is very whimsical in it's creativity. But at the same time it still manages to capture the essence of the Techno Babble that is so common within the science-fiction genre.
The point ultimately being that you can deviate strongly from established science and it's still very much enjoyable. So why should I care if Mass Effect takes a left turn into being less grounded in science? Does it actually render it completely unenjoyable? Not for me. There is still so much other shit about the Mass Effect franchise to enjoy, and even something about this whole Andromeda situation that appeals to me personally.
Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
The hate against Andromeda is also fueled by the way Bioware treated us after the ME3 ending. Like a bunch of fools. I think that when the ME3 ending brought more answers and the things they promised us, then the Andromeda story arch would be much more accepted on this forum.
What they to do now is leave the entire ME3 ending up for debate and start a whole new story arch in another galaxy. A fresh start is not a bad thing, believe me, but before you can make a fresh start you have to find closure for past events.
See it as your bully that is now forced to be your new best friend, but without him ever giving you an apology.
It's just a big 'fuck you' in our face, even an confirmation that they fucked up the whole ending. That is, what I believe, the main reason that Andromeda is so hated on this forum.
What they to do now is leave the entire ME3 ending up for debate and start a whole new story arch in another galaxy. A fresh start is not a bad thing, believe me, but before you can make a fresh start you have to find closure for past events.
See it as your bully that is now forced to be your new best friend, but without him ever giving you an apology.
It's just a big 'fuck you' in our face, even an confirmation that they fucked up the whole ending. That is, what I believe, the main reason that Andromeda is so hated on this forum.
Jusseb- Geth Pyro
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Jusseb wrote:
It's just a big 'fuck you' in our face, even an confirmation that they fucked up the whole ending. That is, what I believe, the main reason that Andromeda is so hated on this forum.
That maybe true for some. Like for me it breaks lore and pure common sense for all those reasons already discussed and beaten to death by at least a few on this forum and elsewhere, oh yes people with common sense not just to be found here. That is the main problem with MEA, add to it the fact Bioware have left ME3's endings in a right mess just compounds the outrage. Bioware is taking its fanbase for fools with short memories, unfortunately Bioware would be right by numbers, numbers of the Bioware groupies, SJWs paid or unpaid, casual players who don't give a flying fuck about story because they are in it for LGBT romances, Waifus and Husbandus.
Bioware is now seemingly on a mission to win brownie points on the politically correct fronts. That's what happens when a studio runs out of ideas and some of their original/best people have jumped ship. I wouldn't surprised if this whole thing becomes a SJW-LGBT romance simulator set in space with recognizable MEU elements plastered onto it.
windsurfing- Scion
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
I can get that but at the same time while I'm a fan I don't know how personal I can take it when I basically binge-played the entire trilogy with all DLC in one go with the use of torrents. For one I didn't pay them jack shit, for two I hadn't vested years of my life into this series when this shit went down, for three it was funny if anything when they started throwing a temper tantrum and getting pissed off because you guys were causing them trouble with your logic and rationality. I'm not even mad, it was entertaining on their part. I've never seen any corporation get so bugged that they would bluntly and directly try to piss on their fans.Jusseb wrote:The hate against Andromeda is also fueled by the way Bioware treated us after the ME3 ending. Like a bunch of fools. I think that when the ME3 ending brought more answers and the things they promised us, then the Andromeda story arch would be much more accepted on this forum.
Well it really depends. In my perspective it's a closed case. Shepard got indoctrinated, sucks for him/her, but tough titty.Jusseb wrote:What they to do now is leave the entire ME3 ending up for debate and start a whole new story arch in another galaxy. A fresh start is not a bad thing, believe me, but before you can make a fresh start you have to find closure for past events.
I oversimplified things, yes. I feel where y'all are coming from I just cannot care that much. I'm not saying I mind things making me think. I'm not saying I prefer having things simple/more nonsensical. But I'm saying it doesn't bother me enough to say "Mass Effect is dead to me". It is what it is.Jusseb wrote:It's just a big 'fuck you' in our face, even an confirmation that they fucked up the whole ending. That is, what I believe, the main reason that Andromeda is so hated on this forum.
Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Terramine wrote:Well it really depends. In my perspective it's a closed case. Shepard got indoctrinated, sucks for him/her, but tough titty.Jusseb wrote:What they to do now is leave the entire ME3 ending up for debate and start a whole new story arch in another galaxy. A fresh start is not a bad thing, believe me, but before you can make a fresh start you have to find closure for past events.
They promised me closure, but in my ending I ended up with 'my' Shepard gasping for air in the middle of a pile of rubble. Is he alive? Did he break indoctrination? Did the Reapers win? What happened?
Not really an ending that got me closure. So in my case, I cannot simply 'move on' to Andromeda. I mean what the fuck?
Jusseb- Geth Pyro
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
To me something like "they used dreadnoughts they could've used in the Reaper war" doesn't constitute a compelling lore break. The way I see it is Arkcon as an idea would be way more appealing to the Council and the rest of the galaxy. Remember how cowardly everyone was the moment the Reapers showed up? Nobody thought we stood a chance. So it wouldn't surprise me to hear that they weren't really as invested in the fight as we thought.windsurfing wrote:Like for me it breaks lore and pure common sense for all those reasons already discussed and beaten to death by at least a few on this forum and elsewhere
That being just one example, in general I do not see any important portions of Lore being violated here. Even if I would concede that lore IS being shit on here. It's nothing like "The Genophage never happened" or something like that. Something liek "The Reapers and Shadow Broker should've known" isn't even something you would think of unless you were deliberately trying to poke holes and both those can be explained with:
1.The Reapers being delayed from starting the cycle is one of the biggest plot points and yet it never TRULY becomes relevant. The crucible plans were literally found at the same exact time the Reapers showed up, and was constructed during the on-going Reaper war. The Protheans only failed because they didn't try to build it until the end of the Reaper cycle. I guess because they just didn't find the schematics until then or whatever. The delay hardly had anything to do with it at all. The delay allowed us to use the relay system and allowed the galactic forces to unite but it's already been established that a conventional victory is impossible so this is ultimately useless. Yet delaying galactic forces SHOULD have galactic significance. There should be drastic consequences that separate our cycle from all others before. To me it just makes sense that the offset, blinded the Reapers to Arkcon. They had too much shit to deal with, damage control and all that.
2.Javik knew about the Crucible when he was in the middle of the Reaper war. He didn't stop what he was doing to suddenly chase this "rumor". The same can be said for The Shadow Broker aka Liara. She's standing by Shepard, trying to FIGHT and WIN. Even if she heard about it, it's a rumor floating around in the back of her head. There's also the massive possibility that Liara is indoctrinated and isn't as connected to her network as she should be because the Reapers are subverting her. Not because Arkcon, as they wouldn't know about it, but specifically to keep Shepard more out of the dark.
3.Killing 2 birds with 1 stone. It's possible the Reapers could know about the Ark but WOULDN'T CARE. Why would they? We've already established that the Reapers' shtick about the Organic VS Synthetic conflict is complete bullshit. That they're most likely doing all this simply because the harvest is how they reproduce. Under that context, it wouldn't actually bother them for some of us to escape. They only wipe out all life in the galaxy so the next cycle of life inside that galaxy won't know about them and they can redo the whole process. It's not like the people headed to Andromeda will be able to tip off the residents of the milky way. It's one big non-issue for the Reapers. If the Reapers don't care, and Liara is indoctrinated. They're probably keeping her quiet about it.
Ultimately following all of this. I get where you're coming from but I just don't think it's AS bad as you make it out to be. Does it subvert lore and common sense to a degree? Sure. But yet again not enough for me to care.
You're just jealous cause your favorite aspect of what makes Mass Effect so great isn't what they ended up focusing on. You're just as bad as them. They neglect the story, but you neglect everything else. Romance has been an integral part of Mass Effect since the series began. Among many other things, like the different kinds of alien species and alien worlds with extensive depth, complexity, and originality. The technology, humanity's place in things, etc. There is way more to Mass Effect than the lore that surrounds where Arkcon is shoehorned in.windsurfing wrote:numbers of the Bioware groupies, SJWs paid or unpaid, casual players who don't give a flying fuck about story because they are in it for LGBT romances, Waifus and Husbandus.
I really don't think that's what they are doing. To an extent maybe, but it's more specifically that they are becoming more fan-servicey in general and focusing on sales, etc.windsurfing wrote:Bioware is now seemingly on a mission to win brownie points on the politically correct fronts. That's what happens when a studio runs out of ideas and some of their original/best people have jumped ship. I wouldn't surprised if this whole thing becomes a SJW-LGBT romance simulator set in space with recognizable MEU elements plastered onto it.
Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
windsurfing wrote:Jusseb wrote:
It's just a big 'fuck you' in our face, even an confirmation that they fucked up the whole ending. That is, what I believe, the main reason that Andromeda is so hated on this forum.
That maybe true for some. Like for me it breaks lore and pure common sense for all those reasons already discussed and beaten to death by at least a few on this forum and elsewhere, oh yes people with common sense not just to be found here. That is the main problem with MEA, add to it the fact Bioware have left ME3's endings in a right mess just compounds the outrage. Bioware is taking its fanbase for fools with short memories, unfortunately Bioware would be right by numbers, numbers of the Bioware groupies, SJWs paid or unpaid, casual players who don't give a flying fuck about story because they are in it for LGBT romances, Waifus and Husbandus.
Bioware is now seemingly on a mission to win brownie points on the politically correct fronts. That's what happens when a studio runs out of ideas and some of their original/best people have jumped ship. I wouldn't surprised if this whole thing becomes a SJW-LGBT romance simulator set in space with recognizable MEU elements plastered onto it.
Yep, this. No matter how ME3 ended, I would hate ME:A with the burning fire of a thousand suns. I loved ME because it was brain candy. Things made sense scientifically (as much as humanly possible for sci-fi), there were hidden themes, references, it was the Citizen Kane of video games. You could play for the 50th time and notice something new. It was amazing. And the Reapers... everyone loves Lovecraftian horror these days, it's so hip to try and emulate that crazy bastard. But everybody sucks at it. Except ME. The Reapers were a perfect Lovecraftian horror.
This? This isn't good enough to be called shit. We only know one substantial (i.e. not like the name of the PC) thing about the game: that people got on an Ark and nope'd out of the Milky Way. We only have ONE fact and that fact makes a complete mockery of both lore and just plain old common sense. This game is no more Mass Effect than the banshee in London is Morinth. Fuck ME:A and fuck everyone involved in this atrocity defiling the remains of my favorite series.
Rifneno- Honey Badger
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
There is a lot of evidence implying that Shepard ended up indoctrinated. Yes, even when he breaths in rubble.Jusseb wrote:They promised me closure, but in my ending I ended up with 'my' Shepard gasping for air in the middle of a pile of rubble. Is he alive? Did he break indoctrination? Did the Reapers win? What happened?
They told us we wouldn't get an A, B, and C ending and that's exactly what we got. It's such a blatant troll. But it's more than just a troll by Bioware. It's Harbinger trolling Shepard. The closest thing we get to Shepard not being indoctrinated. Is in the fact that you can literally just completely ignore the ending with the Citadel DLC content. Essentially, leaving Shepard's mind in a stalemate where he's forever with his friends enjoying himself. Past that it's all fridge horror from there.
Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
And NONE of this is ruined by MEA, contrary to what you want us all to believe. There is discrepancies in the scientific and lore accuracy at the point where Arkcon is inserted. But it's really stupid to think that because there's this 1 spot where things tank a bit, that it can't immediately after that go back to making helsa loads of sense and all that shit.Rifneno wrote:I loved ME because it was brain candy. Things made sense scientifically (as much as humanly possible for sci-fi), there were hidden themes, references, it was the Citizen Kane of video games. You could play for the 50th time and notice something new. It was amazing. And the Reapers... everyone loves Lovecraftian horror these days, it's so hip to try and emulate that crazy bastard. But everybody sucks at it. Except ME. The Reapers were a perfect Lovecraftian horror.
And the Reapers don't really lose face here at all. If they did in fact know about the Ark and essentially LET us leave, it could be simply because it doesn't really affect them or their cycle and ultimately they end up as Dark as ever because they still win and the ending of ME3 involves a lot more fridge horror now. Shepard, his squad mates, and everybody who didn't get on the Arks... got harvested.
Point of contention.Rifneno wrote:We only have ONE fact and that fact makes a complete mockery of both lore and just plain old common sense.
Here we get to the heart of it all. You're bitter and jealous because in your perception even the slightest break in intellectual integrity means it's forever corrupted and perverted.Rifneno wrote:Fuck ME:A and fuck everyone involved in this atrocity defiling the remains of my favorite series.
Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
So, BSN is shutting down.
LOL.
But I hope someone has a backup of the original IT thread. I think someone did, but I'm not sure. =/
LOL.
But I hope someone has a backup of the original IT thread. I think someone did, but I'm not sure. =/
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Rifneno wrote:So, BSN is shutting down.
I knew I had a good feeling about today.
symbowles- Geth Hunter
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
See even Bioware choose Destroy...sorry i had to
That's a bold move though, considering their new game is out soon and everyone will want to talk about it....
That's a bold move though, considering their new game is out soon and everyone will want to talk about it....
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
That's probably part of it.WeAreHarbinger wrote:See even Bioware choose Destroy...sorry i had to
That's a bold move though, considering their new game is out soon and everyone will want to talk about it....
Their new game will be fucking awful and if there's no official place to discuss it, they won't have to listen to people bitch about how they're ignoring all the criticisms about its fucking awfulness.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Rifneno wrote:So, BSN is shutting down.
LOL.
If anyone is interested here is the direct link:
https://forum.bioware.com/topic/574907-concerning-our-forums/
Personally I think they are doing something similar to what Rifneno is saying. Preventative damage control.
Although I would love to think that it was simply because they are sick and tired of people non-stop arguing about ME3 and its stupid ending. I think it may have to do with overall Bioware earnings and the cost to support the forums. Reddit AMA's are cheaper and don't cost money to host.
Lol, where will I get my pretentious Angol Fear fix I wonder...
GG BSN!
Ithurael- Pyjak
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
I'll be really shocked if Bioware lasts till the end of 2017. As they are now anyway, i feel ME:A will do nowhere near as good as the previous trilogy and they'll just be dissolved into EA or outright shut down. I'm not sure how well DA: I, did but i'm sure it was lower than expected. This is damage control though, look at what ME 3 spawned on the forums, at least with Twitter and Facebook they can pretend they did good with criticism swamped under "OMG GAIZ LUV THE GAM"
WeAreHarbinger- Blood Pack Boom-Squad
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!
Rifneno wrote:That's probably part of it.WeAreHarbinger wrote:See even Bioware choose Destroy...sorry i had to
That's a bold move though, considering their new game is out soon and everyone will want to talk about it....
Their new game will be fucking awful and if there's no official place to discuss it, they won't have to listen to people bitch about how they're ignoring all the criticisms about its fucking awfulness.
Well, yeah. Looks like a lot of people on the BSN are perceiving it the same way, even. A lot of people are like "Wow, it must be really bad if they're closing the forums." It's sending a very bad message, haha.
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