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(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Post by Master Blaster Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:06 pm

One thing that bothered me about ME3 EC was that we only saw a handful of ships survive the war on Earth. I am not saying that there should have been more ships no but if that is all that is left it makes you wonder who died when hammer team landed.

We got to remember there was Zhu's hope, Major Kirreah, did any of jack's students die even if they are in support, does having them in support save some of the minor characters that shepard knows?

Did the rachni queen die if they were present in the final battle off screen? Did Baily die (even though it isn't hammer team i always wonder did he die) this goes along with the council as well.
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Post by dorktainian Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:36 pm

bioware sent us to andromeda because they screwed the pooch. they've just confirmed how fucking retarded they are by having mac the hack narrate his own fucking trailer which should make sense without his anal narration, but it needs him to arsescrape his narration all over it because.... nobody knows what the fuck is going on.
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Post by Rifneno Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:48 am

Der Wahnsinn wrote:I wonder what the fuck are they thinking, I mean, Yes It has been almost a five years since Mass Effect 3 came out and almost five years since the biggest divide among fans of ME. Are their goal was to actually divide the fan base ? with that crap (i mean ending), or they just wanted so badly a new fan base for their new games that they showed us a huge middle finger ?  They had a really good chance to make ME trilogy  the best game ever created, but no artistic integrity and that kind of bullshit, how the fuck this can be an ending, people can disagree with many things about IT but there are some points that cannot be disproved like Shepard should be dead, end of discussion. It was not another episode of Dragon Ball, Shepard is not super saiyan.  What is the point ?

From what I've read, they did anticipate some fan disapproval of the ending but nowhere even close to what actually happened. I remember them saying not everyone is going to like the direction we took and such, but nobody expected that a few days after ME3 hit the shelves, used copies would be cheaper than ME1 or that continent wide and even global news organizations would be covering the story of the fan outrage. They expected some hate but they were totally unprepared for what they got. The analogy I like to use is a virtual, online riot.

After that, they were just too cowardly to touch it again. They don't want to broach the subject of the ending because it's caused them so much trouble already. They don't have the balls to tell synthesizers and controllers that they failed a mental battle. Or in the ridiculous scenario where all the evidence we've gathered was mere circumstance, they didn't have the balls to tell us that. No matter how you slice it, it's cowardice in my book. The complete opposite of artistic integrity. A real artist with real integrity would've stayed the course and finished the story how they intended. Not these pussies though.

And now they are making that cop out and some "mysterious" IP. I just don't get it.

Remember how long Shadow Realms lasted? Bitch please!

Master Blaster wrote:Did the rachni queen die if they were present in the final battle off screen?

The queen herself wouldn't have been at the battle. She's the last one, and if she dies then the rachni are extinct. Again. Though there was some cut content, or proposed by one of the writers that just didn't make the cut, whatever... Supposedly there was to be another destroyer in London. It would end up getting completely SWARMED by rachni and they'd disassemble the motherfucker right there in the field. That would have been so impossibly badass. I'm still pissed it never got made.
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Post by Der Wahnsinn Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:49 pm

Rifneno wrote:
From what I've read, they did anticipate some fan disapproval of the ending but nowhere even close to what actually happened. I remember them saying not everyone is going to like the direction we took and such, but nobody expected that a few days after ME3 hit the shelves, used copies would be cheaper than ME1 or that continent wide and even global news organizations would be covering the story of the fan outrage. They expected some hate but they were totally unprepared for what they got. The analogy I like to use is a virtual, online riot.

After that, they were just too cowardly to touch it again. They don't want to broach the subject of the ending because it's caused them so much trouble already. They don't have the balls to tell synthesizers and controllers that they failed a mental battle. Or in the ridiculous scenario where all the evidence we've gathered was mere circumstance, they didn't have the balls to tell us that. No matter how you slice it, it's cowardice in my book. The complete opposite of artistic integrity. A real artist with real integrity would've stayed the course and finished the story how they intended. Not these pussies though.

Well said, very well said.  I remember their bullshit talk. Today I even watched some old videos of theirs like "players will find out what their choices did" (don't know if I should whether to laugh or cry). They are still in that shape still pissing off still talking lots of bullshit. They really pissed me off when they used femshep actress in Andromeda promo video. What the fuck was that supposed to be ? Another huge fuck you all, seriously they never have enough.

There are not only cowards, but also incredibly insolent, they used players outrage and actions like Cupcake protest ( can't recollect how many cupcakes has been sent to them, it was 400 ? )  to promote Mass Effect 3.

As for company which is based on two IP's, it would be great to keep them in very good condition, that just logical. But no they just talking bullshit after bullshit, and try to make IP that will serve as meme.
Sometimes I feel sorry for new players, they realy have no idea how this looks like. I have a friend who has never played Mass Effect trilogy, each time I hear : "you are exaggerating, it can't that bad". my answer : after completing Mass Effect 3, do not call with things like: "Holy fucking shit you were right, tell me everyting about indoctrination theory".
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Post by Raistlin Majere Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:46 pm

Rifneno wrote:

The queen herself wouldn't have been at the battle.  She's the last one, and if she dies then the rachni are extinct.  Again.  Though there was some cut content, or proposed by one of the writers that just didn't make the cut, whatever...  Supposedly there was to be another destroyer in London.  It would end up getting completely SWARMED by rachni and they'd disassemble the motherfucker right there in the field.  That would have been so impossibly badass.  I'm still pissed it never got made.

"The rachni choice will have a major impact even just in the final battle" Head meets wall

I freaking loved the Rachni in ME1...to just see them relegated to some foot note in the series is heartbreaking for me...and now they are just gone.
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Post by Eryri Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:52 pm

Rifneno wrote:

Sorry, I might be a bit over-bitchy lately.  Real life doing a thing.  

No worries Rif. I hope your real-life stuff sorts itself out soon. I take your point about graphics being of secondary importance to writing. Which, judging by that very brief snippet in the trailer, may not exactly be Shakespear either.

-

On another, slightly more nit-picky, topic, I was watching another video criticising the gameplay trailer the other day. One of the weapons selected in the HUD was the one named after Kal Reegar. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Reegar die offscreen during the Reaper war and had a gun named in his honour? If so, why would these people who left before ME3 even started have that weapon to hand? It's probably just a placeholder name, but if not it's a pretty sloppy oversight.
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Post by ZerebusPrime Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:38 am

If the ark vessels have a QEC system linked to the Citadel, they could have received news and schematic updates in-flight up until the point the station was overwhelmed.

Imagine that.  Waking up expecting 600 years of backlog to read through and then finding less than one. And most of that is news about planet after planet being wiped clean of everything you held dear.
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Post by Eryri Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:48 am

That's a possibility. But if that's true, wouldn't each ark likely maintain a QEC link to its respective species' homeworld? If so then the Salarians would never have lost their link. Which would be awkward because then they should know the outcome of the war, which is the very thing Bioware are running to Andromeda to avoid making canon. Bioware would have been better off not bringing up QEC communications at all, at least for their purposes of weaselling out of the consequences of ME3


Imagine that. Waking up expecting 600 years of backlog to read through and then finding less than one. And most of that is news about planet after planet being wiped clean of everything you held dear.
Yeah, that would be devastating.
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Post by ZerebusPrime Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:25 am

See, that's the beauty of just a big QEC center linking the Nexus to the Citadel and only the Nexus to the Citadel.

Links to homeworlds would depend on how secret or not secret this stupid project is.  

Or not: I would imagine that QEC's are easy to break.  Keeping particles sufficiently trapped for 600+ years might take some special forethought on both sides.  It's not like they can easily ship new entangled particle pair devices between galaxies.  That adds a level of complexity and security that would ratchet the expense level up: the communication devices must not be allowed to break down or even power down --- EVER!  Thus it'd probably be easier to set up a big super secure intergalactic comm. hub on the Nexus and have the Ark ships use regular, local QEC's relayed through it.

EDIT: I am writing with the assumption that entangled particle pairs must be created and entrapped in the same laboratory and then separated and carried off elsewhere.
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Post by Der Wahnsinn Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:19 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:Imagine that. Waking up expecting 600 years of backlog to read through and then finding less than one. And most of that is news about planet after planet being wiped clean of everything you held dear.

That would act like a headshot. I wonder if that kind of info would be based on saved games or based on some weird canon of theirs. Nevertheless that sounds like another huge "fuck you guys" from BioWare.
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Post by dorktainian Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:58 am

but they still havent explained why Andromeda. I mean why ffs? In a galaxy largely unexplored who suggested going to fucking Andromeda and why? Why not some other galaxy? Also dark space in their trailer ain't dark. WTF??

Also course corrections IN DARK SPACE????

Also..if Andromeda is so scarce resource wise, how do they expect to complete that Nexus thingy?

So many questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRKUlCQB5L8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecHBMgxVBqM
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Post by magnetite Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:03 pm

Andromeda is the closest galaxy to the Milky Way.
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Post by vlad78 Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:39 pm

Der Wahnsinn wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:Imagine that. Waking up expecting 600 years of backlog to read through and then finding less than one. And most of that is news about planet after planet being wiped clean of everything you held dear.

That would act like a headshot. I wonder if that kind of info would be based on saved games or based on some weird canon of theirs. Nevertheless that sounds like another huge "fuck you guys" from BioWare.

I'm really looking forward to what informations will be sent to the colonists. Of course there's no way to know who will send those informations of course.

BTW about that new ftl technology, we shall remember by 2185 the reaper invasion is thought to be a myth. No one except some people in the alliance are preparing for it.

The ark technology could also be seen as unproven by the military. Once the reapers are here, it would be too late to use it on their spaceships, especially if arkcon is a front of cerberus like i suspect.
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Post by Eryri Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:00 pm

magnetite wrote:Andromeda is the closest galaxy to the Milky Way.

It's the closest major galaxy. There are, apparently, quite a few dwarf galaxies that are closer, including the Magellanic Clouds- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_galaxies_of_the_Milky_Way
Those would seem a more logical first step than Andromeda.

@Zerebus - routing all communications through the Citadel wouldn't be a bad explanation actually. Like you say, it's a good excuse for Bioware to create a comms black-out when the Reapers capture it. Even so, I suspect you may be putting more thought into this than Bioware are.
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Post by ZerebusPrime Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:52 pm

Der Wahnsinn wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:Imagine that. Waking up expecting 600 years of backlog to read through and then finding less than one. And most of that is news about planet after planet being wiped clean of everything you held dear.

That would act like a headshot. I wonder if that kind of info would be based on saved games or based on some weird canon of theirs. Nevertheless that sounds like another huge "fuck you guys" from BioWare.

I would gladly find out that the Milky Way had been rendered sterile and inert if only because I hate Synthesis as an alternative outcome that much.
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Post by Rifneno Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:03 pm

Eryri wrote:
magnetite wrote:Andromeda is the closest galaxy to the Milky Way.

It's the closest major galaxy. There are apparently quite a few dwarf galaxies that are closer, including the Magellanic Clouds- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_galaxies_of_the_Milky_Way

Thanks. I was itching to say that but I thought it'd just be nitpicky because those galaxies are so small. I'm looking for a good analogy. I want to compare it to how Pluto got demoted from being a planet but even that's not apt because Pluto is much closer to being a full sized planet than those rag-tag gaggle of stars is to a full size galaxy. If you don't even have a supermassive black hole, fuck off.

Damn pleb galaxies.

QEC? Don't be silly. The entire purpose of this Andromeda shit is to get around addressing ME3 in any way.
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Post by Eryri Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:39 pm

ZerebusPrime wrote:

I would gladly find out that the Milky Way had been rendered sterile and inert if only because I hate Synthesis as an alternative outcome that much.

Ditto. I usually like my sci-fi hopeful and idealistic rather than grimdark, but the utter destruction of the Milky Way is about the only thing that could make me care about ME Andromeda. Having our protagonist find out that the Reapers won, and then meet a shiny new Reaper that had been sent by its elders to "tie up loose ends" would make me perversely happy. Not meaning to sound like some Zack Snyderesque, grimdark merchant, but I'd even forgive them (Bioware) if we found out that Harbinger just crushed a destroy-choosing Shepard underfoot after discovering that he couldn't be indoctrinated. At least that would erase as much space magic as possible while preserving the Reapers' status as implacable machine gods. It won't happen though. Too many people would be upset.


Last edited by Eryri on Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ZerebusPrime Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:12 am

In Bioware's half-defense, Mass Effect Large Magellanic Cloud sounds dumber.
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Post by Raistlin Majere Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:15 am

dorktainian wrote:but they still havent explained why Andromeda.  I mean why ffs?  In a galaxy largely unexplored who suggested going to fucking Andromeda and why?  Why not some other galaxy?  Also dark space in their trailer ain't dark.  WTF??

Also course corrections IN DARK SPACE????  

Also..if Andromeda is so scarce resource wise, how do they expect to complete that Nexus thingy?  

So many questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRKUlCQB5L8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecHBMgxVBqM

My only problem with the videos is that he is confusing FTL with Relay travel. He keeps saying that travel in FTL is through a Mass less corridor and thus cannot hit anything, when that is how the Relays work.
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Post by Rifneno Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:47 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:In Bioware's half-defense, Mass Effect Large Magellanic Cloud sounds dumber.

Why shouldn't it sound how it is?
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Post by dorktainian Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:12 am

Raistlin Majere wrote:
dorktainian wrote:but they still havent explained why Andromeda.  I mean why ffs?  In a galaxy largely unexplored who suggested going to fucking Andromeda and why?  Why not some other galaxy?  Also dark space in their trailer ain't dark.  WTF??

Also course corrections IN DARK SPACE????  

Also..if Andromeda is so scarce resource wise, how do they expect to complete that Nexus thingy?  

So many questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRKUlCQB5L8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecHBMgxVBqM

My only problem with the videos is that he is confusing FTL with Relay travel. He keeps saying that travel in FTL is through a Mass less corridor and thus cannot hit anything, when that is how the Relays work.


thing is it (MEA) deserves ridicule but all the BSN forums seem to be doing is wanking themselves into a stupour over it. Yes I know it's only a game but it's a massive middle finger to the playerbase and the playerbase cannot even see it (after wanking emselves blind over those trailers and that inane dialogue)
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Post by Raistlin Majere Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:17 am

dorktainian wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:

My only problem with the videos is that he is confusing FTL with Relay travel. He keeps saying that travel in FTL is through a Mass less corridor and thus cannot hit anything, when that is how the Relays work.


thing is it (MEA) deserves ridicule but all the BSN forums seem to be doing is wanking themselves into a stupour over it.  Yes I know it's only a game but it's a massive middle finger to the playerbase and the playerbase cannot even see it (after wanking emselves blind over those trailers and that inane dialogue)

They do, but to me the best way to mock them is by pointing out all the ways they break their own lore, but that also means that we need to be accurate about our own information.
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Post by dorktainian Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:40 am

Raistlin Majere wrote:
dorktainian wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:

My only problem with the videos is that he is confusing FTL with Relay travel. He keeps saying that travel in FTL is through a Mass less corridor and thus cannot hit anything, when that is how the Relays work.


thing is it (MEA) deserves ridicule but all the BSN forums seem to be doing is wanking themselves into a stupour over it.  Yes I know it's only a game but it's a massive middle finger to the playerbase and the playerbase cannot even see it (after wanking emselves blind over those trailers and that inane dialogue)

They do, but to me the best way to mock them is by pointing out all the ways they break their own lore, but that also means that we need to be accurate about our own information.

I called him out on that fwiw.

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Post by Der Wahnsinn Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:55 pm

Oh mein Gott! It's getting worse and worse after watching videos by smudboy and reading some posts I'm getting the feeling that this game is going to be extreme crap, It didn't even come out and it's already a ocean of plotholes. I mean they are like kids from elementary school, that are writing fancy stories about space thinking how great they are. Let's put this and this. Players (not all of course) are like teachers or headmasters, but the thing is we are not in charge and can't give them a proper grade ( 6 ungenügend  or F - just choose what academic grading you want), yeah somehow we can, but IT and ME3 ending showed that they just don't give a fuck. I even doubt that they will give a single fuck in case of weak sales. Mass Effect 3 ending, sentenced this universe to death (I know they did it, by being just bunch of pussies), this is exactly what is happing right now.
I know theoretically it is possilbe to raise the series from the ground (I liked that idea by Eryri that reapers won), but In pratice ZERO chance for that, like I said they are siting right now in locked classroom with their "artistic integrity".
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Post by vlad78 Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:14 pm

Der Wahnsinn wrote:Oh mein Gott! It's getting worse and worse after watching videos by smudboy and reading some posts I'm getting the feeling that this game is going to be extreme crap, It didn't even come out and it's already a ocean of plotholes. I mean they are like kids from elementary school, that are writing fancy stories about space thinking how great they are. Let's put this and this. Players (not all of course) are like teachers or headmasters, but the thing is we are not in charge and can't give them a proper grade ( 6 ungenügend  or F - just choose what academic grading you want), yeah somehow we can, but IT and ME3 ending showed that they just don't give a fuck. I even doubt that they will give a single fuck in case of weak sales. Mass Effect 3 ending, sentenced this universe to death (I know they did it, by being just bunch of pussies), this is exactly what is happing right now.
I know theoretically it is possilbe to raise the series from the ground (I liked that idea by Eryri that reapers won), but In pratice ZERO chance for that, like I said they are siting right now in locked classroom with their "artistic integrity".

Can you at least wait for the actual game before passing final judgement? Very Happy
vlad78
vlad78
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