(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by WeAreHarbinger on Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:22 pm

So basically the plan is, move all the species to the Andromeda galaxy and forget the Milky Way happened and have every future ME game set in Andromeda..k, got it.

Long as i know i won't have to waste money. If anything i see the "2009 Star Trek" reboot happening and them returning to the Milky Way in a style of "What reapers? no reapers here, ME 1-3 was standalone, money plz".

Then all the fanboys wank over it etc.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by windsurfing on Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Lol this is turning out to be soo bad that Bioware has to pay people to atleast pirate the game and play it. Atleast with the players who actually gave a flying fuck about consistency in lore that is.

But bioware have loads of SJWs and COD type players who don't care for such things, they like lots of combat, auto-dialogue and wifu/husbandu simulations in space to get their fix. Can't let something as useless as lore consistency spoil all that, come on people.

Meh it will sell.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:43 pm

CSSteele wrote:I hate discussing politics, which is why I was trying to get it back on topic, but, whatever. I didn't, wouldn't, and couldn't vote for Hillary.

And people like this are why Trump won.  We were offered a choice of getting the flu or getting ebola, and because a bunch of people refused to be pragmatic and "settle", we have ebola.  Thank you guys so much.  I'm sure Trump thanks you unsarcastically too.

Not with everything going on, but I donated to Bernie's campaign. I was all for him, I would've and actually TRIED to encourage others to vote for him as well. I, personally Rif, think he would've won if he hadn't been dicked over by the DNC.

He was not screwed by the DNC.  This is just an excuse Bernie supporters go to to deny the truth.  He lost by every conceivable measure.  He got fewer votes, he had fewer delegates even without superdelegates, everything.  He wasn't screwed.  He JUST PLAIN LOST.

Did the media not give him the attention that they gave Hillary?  Sure.  Is that unfair?  Not in the least.  I'm sure there's millions who'd be better presidents than any of the actual candidates for either party.  But they don't have a chance because they're nobodies that no one has ever heard of.  The bigger somebody you are, the more attention you get.  From everyone.  Just because there was ONE SINGLE PERSON who is a bigger somebody than Bernie doesn't mean he got "screwed" any more than the dozens, hell, probably hundreds of other candidates that got no attention because they were less of a somebody than Bernie.

Mostly BECAUSE he was going for the same thing Trump went for to the masses 'We're tired of career politicians and we want real change'.

What the actual fuck are you talking about?  Bernie has been a career politician since becoming a mayor in 1981.  Did all those times they called him "Senator Sanders" not tip you off?  Do you think senator is a volunteer job he does on the weekends and he manages a clothing store to pay the bills?

Everytime I see a Bernie supporter go to this "he had the same thing Trump going!" well, I am astonished at the level of disconnection from reality that Bernie supporters have.  I wonder if I'm polite and tactful in this alternate reality where Bernie isn't a career politician.

That's what got Trump elected (not saying I support him, because I don't), I'm just explaining WHY he made it.

I don't know if you've been watching the news (obviously not), but what got him elected was a ridiculously set up electoral system and the help of borderline evil foreign powers.

Of course, we can disagree on Bernie's chances, but given the low, low, low numbers that actually voted this cycle, I think Bernie would've seen a higher turn out for the Democrat side of things.

Oh right, I forgot the other thing that helped him: people like you.  Hillary wasn't perfect, so you put 70% of the world's nuclear arsenal in the hands of a man that said "why have nuclear weapons if you're afraid to use them?"  If we soon wake up to a 2 mile tall mushroom cloud in the middle east triggering the start of World War III, remind me to personally thank you again.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:52 pm

windsurfing wrote:Lol this is turning out to be soo bad that Bioware has to pay people to atleast pirate the game and play it. Atleast with the players who actually gave a flying fuck about consistency in lore that is.

But bioware have loads of SJWs and COD type players who don't care for such things, they like lots of combat, auto-dialogue and wifu/husbandu simulations in space to get their fix. Can't let something as useless as lore consistency spoil all that, come on people.

Meh it will sell.

I'm not sure it will. Wasn't the latest entry in the COD franchise very space opera themed? From what I've heard it didn't connect with the fan base very well at all. I don't think Titanfall 2 did very well either.  It seems to me that FPS fans prefer modern day or WW2 settings, and they're very fussy about shooting mechanics. Bioware might be making a big mistake if they think that COD players will be easier to please than us lore geeks.

Casual gamers may be put off by the fact that Andromeda still has lots of lore to absorb.
We'll be put off because said lore is really badly thought out and arbitrary.

Bioware could well end up pleasing nobody by trying to please everybody.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by windsurfing on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:05 pm

Eryri wrote:

Bioware could well end up pleasing nobody by trying to please everybody.

I am sort of passively hoping for something like that, let it suffer Dead Space's fate. Once EA loses interest in the milking due to lack of ROI they will be open to selling it. When it drops to peanuts some group more capable might actually buy it and set things right? One can dream I suppose but naw ain't happening.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Der Wahnsinn on Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:19 pm

Eryri wrote:(...) Bioware could well end up pleasing nobody by trying to please everybody.

This is something I don't get it, but probably because I don't have a proper data, statistics or whatever. For my point of view It is much easier to maintain franchise in a good shape and keeping a fan base rather then making a new IP and that is always a huge unknown, you can never be 100% sure that upcoming title will be a success.
New Andromeda.... I don't know, divided fanbase, some people are not going to buy it at all, bioderps no need to comment them, as for the new players or players not familiar with Mass Effect, well some will buy just because it's a big AAA title that they need to check out and some of them will say: "another Mass Effect that's not for me".
So, who are they trying to please ? Hard to say, one thing is obvious as fuck, they are definitely not trying to please anyone who dislikes (to put it lightly) the ending of Mass Effect 3.
And by the way, how many times it has been shown that trying to please everybody always ends up bad ? I guess not enough, and mass effect unfortunately is going to be another example.
I wish to be wrong, but this doesn't look good at all and I'm afraid to see another reveal of theirs, what is going to be next ?  Wonderful cure for the genophage discovered on that nexus thing by ..... Diana Allers. Since they don't give a fuck about trilogy I think nothing is going to suprise me now.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:50 am

Ah, Diana Allers.

I may never forgive BioWare for killing off Emily Wong over Twitter. And I don't care how childish that is.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:09 pm

windsurfing wrote:
I am sort of passively hoping for something like that, let it suffer Dead Space's fate. Once EA loses interest in the milking due to lack of ROI they will be open to selling it. When it drops to peanuts some group more capable might actually buy it and set things right? One can dream I suppose but naw ain't happening.

Who knows? Maybe in 20 years time EA will have gone bust and some indie studio will begin a kickstarter to buy the rights and make a proper ME4? As you say, we can live in hope.

Der Wahnsinn wrote:

So, who are they trying to please ? Hard to say, one thing is obvious as fuck, they are definitely not trying to please anyone who dislikes (to put it lightly) the ending of Mass Effect 3.

Indeed. As much as people criticise The Force Awakens and Rogue One for being fan service, I like the fact that Disney went out of their way to correct Lucas' mistakes from the prequels. I think any ME sequel would have to do something similar for me. It wouldn't be enough for it to be merely a competent, stand-alone story, it would have to actively fix the ending of ME3. Hopefully by revealing synthesis as the impossible fever dream of a mentally compromised Shepard, and Control as the delusion of a power-hungry, hypocritical idiot. It actually worries me how much I hate those endings. I think I'd rather watch a 2 hour Jar-Jar compilation, intercut with Anakin's "sand speech" and scenes from the Star Wars Christmas Special than suffer them again.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:59 am

Eryri wrote:As much as people criticise The Force Awakens and Rogue One for being fan service, I like the fact that Disney went out of their way to correct Lucas' mistakes from the prequels.

Huh? I'm not following.

How exactly are TFA and RO correcting mistakes from the prequels?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:28 am

Apologies for taking the thread off topic. I've put my long-winded reply in spoilers to avoid clutter and a minor spoiler for Rogue One
Spoiler:

With the new Star Wars it's more a case of going back to traditional film-making rather than correcting problems with the lore and writing (which is what Bioware will need to do to win me back). Things like going to real locations where possible and using physical sets rather than green screen, and having more practical creature effects (with the notable exceptions of CGI Peter Cushing, Maz Kanata and Snoke, the latter of which will apparently be more of a physical puppet in Episode 8). I much prefer the look of the new films compared to the prequels, they are more reminiscent of the original trilogy with less of the flat, studio-lighting and over-saturated colours that I thought made episodes 2 and 3 in particular look so artificial. I believe they are also shot on real film rather than the digital system Lucas used on the prequels, which gives that subtle film-grain effect. This is obviously a subjective thing but I think the artificiality of the prequels' visual style was a common cause of complaint among fans of the original trilogy.

It's maybe a bit too early to see if the writing will be consistently better than the prequels, though I've enjoyed them so far, and not noticed anything as terrible as the Anakin / Padme romance. They seem to be going back to making the Force mystical and mysterious again, which I like. They've stayed away from mentioning the infamous "midichlorians", touch wood. Politics has taken a back seat to old fashioned adventure - I like political intrigue if done well, but the prequels handled that quite poorly.

The direction and casting seem better so far as well. Daisy Ridley and John Boyega seem more natural and likeable than Haydn Christiansen and Natalie Portman ever did, though in fairness to them, Lucas has a reputation for not communicating directions very clearly to his actors.

Another small thing was the change in fight choreography - the Prequels had light sabre duels that some people thought were almost too smooth and well executed. Rey and Kylo's fight, by contrast, was a more scrappy, clumsy affair that was perhaps an attempt to make it seem more realistic.

Sorry for the essay. TLDR I just get the sense that Disney are making a conscious and deliberate effort to emulate the style and feel of the original films in order to rehabilitate the franchise in the eyes of those who were disappointed with the prequels. (Perhaps too much so, since TFA's plot had a little too much in common with ANH.)
Anyway, enough of my rambling. It's not long turned midnight here, so Happy Christmas everybody!
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:30 am

fwiw i see the prequels as being pretty good, right up till anakin goes full retard. they told a story, a story that even george lucas stated years ago wasn't really that interesting, and it made sense. the fall of the republic and this was called by padme in the senate. the death of democracy ends with thunderous applause. everything palpatine has done behind the scenes worked. the senators granted him ultimate -power without him needing any oversight. they voted for their own demise based on a lie.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:14 pm

Emulating the style of the original films is all well and good, using props instead of CG, great.

But it's not emulating the feel of the originals at all in my opinion. Both Disney films feel totally disconnected to the SW universe I've always known. TFA fails because all it does is bring homages, the nostalgia is so thick, people are choking on it. But where is the originality, the creativity?

Say what you want about the prequels, yes they definitely have their flaws, but at least Lucas didn't try to rehash the originals. He obviously had a very different vision about this era and followed through with it. He did something very different, and it wasn't an undivided success, but he kept bringing us new worlds, new races, different environments, and despite everything the story was a whole lot more engaging than what we're getting now.

Rogue One is very bleak. And the whole story kind of feels like it's unnecessary. It was enjoyable enough, but at the same time it was nothing special. It didn't really feel like Star Wars to me somehow.

TFA didn't feel like SW either, despite original cast members and heaps of nostalgia moments. It just falls flat.

Then again, I think it's a terrible idea to do anything whatsoever after Return of the Jedi. I mean what's the story going to be? Another wannabe Sith Lord? Another Empire? Another Jedi pupil gone dark side? Why rehash all that? I felt the same way about the old Expanded Universe, by the way.

I'd rather see a Knights of the Old Republic era thing. Still Star Wars, but completely different.

I'm not a Lucas apologist at all, but I think when people will look back in a few years time they'll realize the Disney material doesn't quite stack up.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:02 pm

I will admit to enjoying Ian McDiarmid's deliciously evil (and slightly OTT) turn as Palpatine in Episode 3. RotS is the one prequel that I find watchable. It's still flawed but it has redeeming qualities.
And I agree that they need to do something different in episode 8. They can't get away with remaking Empire Strikes Back. One "homage" I can forgive, but another would be absurd. I think I enjoyed TFA in spite of its rehashed story, rather than because of it, because I thought the new characters were charismatic and engaging and it was great to see the old characters again.

Speaking of which, I was sad to hear about Carrie Fisher just now. Rest in peace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38446753
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:17 pm

I really liked Rey. I liked her much better than whatshername from Rogue One. Erso or something.

RotS is great, in my opinion. The only thing I dislike about it is Grievous. Order 66 is amazing. By far the best of the prequels. AotC could have been better, but has some great moments. TPM is in my opinion set in the wrong time period and wastes a lot of time introducing the characters.

I would have preferred to see the beginning, middle and end of the clone wars, so Anakin's downfall could have been more properly fleshed out.

Ah well.

All in all they're still more my cup of tea than TFA was. And Rogue One doesn't even compare to what the old EU did with that story. The Dark Forces games were awesome.

Yeah, Carrie Fisher... wow. 2016 just won't stop killing people, it seems. :( Only 60 years old!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ElSuperGecko on Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:12 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I really liked Rey. I liked her much better than whatshername from Rogue One. Erso or something...

Oh come on. Seriously, COME ON.



TFA was utter jank. From the recycled plot to the hideously millennial characters. Rogue One was a much better film, and that's in no small part due to having a lead who can well... y'know... actually lead.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:47 pm

I didn't say I liked TFA better than Rogue One. I did like Rogue One better. TFA really failed, it only rehashed stuff and didn't add any originality at all.

I just so happened to like the Rey character better than Erso.

Then again, I only saw TFA once, so I may be remembering her not so well.

I don't think either film was particularly good though.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:52 pm

I like to remember star wars - even the prequels - with a deal of affection, I do now wonder if too much star wars will be a really bad idea. Time will tell.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:59 pm

dorktainian wrote:I like to remember star wars - even the prequels - with a deal of affection,  I do now wonder if too much star wars will be a really bad idea.  Time will tell.

The young Han Solo movie might be a step too far. I don't really need to know how he met Chewie or acquired the Falcon. It's also going to be a bit disconcerting watching a new movie about a charming rogue having wacky adventures when you know he's ultimately going to die horribly at the hand of his own son.

I think Rogue One deserves some credit for trying a different, bleaker tone, although it is a bit uneven in quality which may be down to the reshoots. I don't think it will be as rewatch-able as the original trilogy, or even as TFA, and it's definitely too bleak to watch with my 5 year old nephew any time soon. The first half of the film is a little dull. Forest Whitaker and his weird, psychic octopus were pretty superfluous. I can only remember the names of a few of the characters as they had very little time to develop. The second half was much, much better, and I did find it tense despite knowing the outcome. I felt like the Empire, and one character in particular, were genuinely threatening and even frightening.

Spoiler:
Vader was terrifying in that scene on the rebel ship. And despite not knowing much about them, I was hoping against hope that Urso and co would make it out alive and I was actually sad when they did not.

Overall I'd say it was a 7 out of 10 for me. If I had to rate the films in ascending order it would be
Attack of the Clones < Phantom Menace <<< Revenge of the Sith (considerably better than the other prequels) < Rogue One <= TFA < Jedi < New Hope << Empire.

Your milages may vary. I may change my mind in the future. It especially depends on how Episodes 8 and 9 turn out. If they don't come through with an original plot and some satisfying answers to the questions raised in TFA, like Rey's origins (which hopefully will include a good explanation for her slightly too rapid growth in the force) then that might make me less well disposed to forgive episode 7's faults.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:40 pm

Rogue One better than RotS? Shocked 

I really can't understand that.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:06 pm

I don't care about Rey's "slightly too rapid" growth in the Force, the whole film is a totally unimaginative failure and a rehash of ANH as far as I'm concerned. By far the worst of all them all.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:23 pm

RoTS is the 2nd best film in the saga, after the masterpiece ESB. TFA is a poor ANH redux with politically correct and feminist characters. Rey is a Marry Sue, she never struggles, unlike Luke in the OT and Anakin in the PT. She's an unstoppable juggernaut; who is an expert pilot of the Millennium Falcon and an expert duelist and Force user...Even tho she has ZERO training in either.

She's somehow able to best a guy that's been trained by Luke Skywalker, can stop laser bolts in mid flight, and can render folks immobilie with Force stasis. This same guy is a fucking descendent from The Chosen One and killed all the Jedi in Luke's new order. He's the master of The Knights of Ren and is known as "Jedi Killer". And yet.... An untrained, complete noob whoops his ass????

Um, no. That's bad. That's a Marry Sue.


New Andromeda gameplay tomorrow BTW. Cheers.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:05 pm

So when was Star Wars ever full of politically incorrect characters? Help me out here.

Jar Jar? Neimoidians?

Also, Rey is probably just as much a descendant of the chosen one as the guy with the mask and the aggression problem.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:47 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:

Also, Rey is probably just as much a descendant of the chosen one as the guy with the mask and the aggression problem.

I have some poorly supported (and probably wrong) speculation on this point. I'll put it in spoilers as I'm conscious that I've derailed the thread a bit into Star Wars instead of Mass Effect.
Spoiler:
Apparently, in one of the recent canon Star Wars novels (which I admit I haven't read), Jakku was the site of an imperial research base. This was supposedly the reason that the last battle with the empire took place there - the rebels were trying to take the base before the empire could destroy all evidence of what they were doing.

http://www.signedstarwars.com/home/the-importance-of-the-planet-jakku-to-the-empire-before-star-wars-the-force-awakens

As far as I can tell, the type of research the empire were doing there wasn't specified. This being fiction it's probably not a coincidence that Rey was stranded there. Perhaps it will transpire that the empire were conducting biological research and Rey's memories of her family are false? Rey might turn out to be the result of some sort of cloning experiment; Palpatine's attempt to use Anakin's cells to engineer a suitably powerful replacement apprentice if the Skywalkers turned out to be a bust (which, in fact, they did as far as he was concerned). In which case that would be a good enough explanation for me as to why she's so talented. I'd be happy to accept something like that in a less-hard sci-fi setting like Star Wars. I'm not sure if her age would work out with the timeline, but she probably wouldn't know her exact age anyway.

Edit: after a quick google search I'm apparently far from the first to come up with this daft theory. Another version is that Rey was created by Snoke with cells from Luke's severed hand. Oh well, daft as it is, at least its a change from the theory that Rey is Luke's abandoned daughter, which would be a bit out of character for Luke.

In response to Turian's post, for what it's worth, I don't think Rey actually qualifies as a true "Mary Sue". She did have a moment of weakness when she refused to accept the sabre and ran into the forest, thereby getting herself captured. Before that she messed up by letting those tentacle things out by mistake, nearly getting Finn eaten, and she only beat Kylo after he'd lost a considerable amount of blood from Chewie's bowcaster shot. If she had no self-doubt or made no mistakes at all then that would have made her unrelatable (and too many mistakes would have made her annoying), but personally I found her pretty likeable, although a reasonably lore-friendly explanation for her piloting skills and force abilities would be nice to have in the next film. Now that I think of it, was there an explanation for how Luke learned to fly an X-wing growing up on a farm on Tatooine? I can't actually remember, it's a while since I watched ANH. Was he training to join an academy, or something? If not then Rey's piloting skills aren't really a first for the series.

I admit that the rip-off Death Star plot was the weakest part of the film. To some extent I'm suspending judgement on TFA until we have the next 2 films. If they take the story in a new direction then I'll forgive TFA's faults as just a prologue instalment to introduce new people to the franchise. On the other hand, if they cook up another planet killing super weapon then TFA will retrospectively fall badly in my estimation.

To be slightly more on-topic, it seems that over Christmas Bioware ran a three hour stream on youtube and twitch of one of their employees silently staring at a camera while sitting by a fire, surrounded by N7 merch. I remember very briefly tuning in but I thought that it was just a placeholder image for an event that was yet to start, not the actual stream.



This was apparently well-received by Bioware fans, for some reason. One that seems to have gone over my head completely.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:04 am

anyone else see that femryder and just want to punch her deformed eyes out?

See looks like a cross between a horse and a trout.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:02 pm

dorktainian wrote:See looks like a cross between a horse and a trout.

A bit like Sarah Jessica Parker, then. Laughing

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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