(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:50 am

magnetite wrote:I missed the Thane thing. Must not have been paying attention.

It only happens if you romanced him.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:29 am

Thane's recording of a memory in the Citadel DLC? Happened on Earth. With insects Shepard would easily recognize from a Nat Geo documentary or similar so even a spaceborn Shep would recognize them. Are we sure that's really Thane's memory or is Thane describing something Shepard once saw?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:09 am

Rifneno wrote:
magnetite wrote:I missed the Thane thing. Must not have been paying attention.

It only happens if you romanced him.

That explains it.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by windsurfing on Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:48 am

It appears father Alec Ryder and the Asian women with him look more well done in animation and face details vs every other NPC along with the Ryder siblings. It is beginning to look like a rush job, that sounds very familiar...
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:24 pm

windsurfing wrote:It appears father Alec Ryder and the Asian women with him look more well done in animation and face details vs every other NPC along with the Ryder siblings. It is beginning to look like a rush job, that sounds very familiar...

How the fuck do you waste half a decade on a rush job?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by windsurfing on Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:39 pm

Rifneno wrote:
windsurfing wrote:It appears father Alec Ryder and the Asian women with him look more well done in animation and face details vs every other NPC along with the Ryder siblings. It is beginning to look like a rush job, that sounds very familiar...

How the fuck do you waste half a decade on a rush job?

Your answers are found on glassdoor from former Bioware employees.

TL:DR: It seems a lot of things are done at the last moment, very disorganized and not to mention other nice things like backstabbing, politics. Some petty stuff like doing project deliverables changes just to spite another staff.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:03 am

windsurfing wrote:
Rifneno wrote:
windsurfing wrote:It appears father Alec Ryder and the Asian women with him look more well done in animation and face details vs every other NPC along with the Ryder siblings. It is beginning to look like a rush job, that sounds very familiar...

How the fuck do you waste half a decade on a rush job?

Your answers are found on glassdoor from former Bioware employees.

TL:DR: It seems a lot of things are done at the last moment, very disorganized and not to mention other nice things like backstabbing, politics. Some petty stuff like doing project deliverables changes just to spite another staff.

I figured.  It was kind of rhetorical but the description you gave is very good for updating the part of the class that hasn't read former BW employees talk about what the working situation was like there (not in MEA, just general).  Petty little humanoids doing everything to Udina their way to a top (yes, he's a verb now) and the 3 people trying to make a decent game getting shit on for their political positioning.

Best "Fuck you for this bullshit" I ever heard in game development stuff was done by a company making WWE games for Xbox.  Despite fans almost universally preferring their games to THQ's (who was making WWE games for Playstation), THQ got the contract to start doing the Xbox games as well.  People point out that there's a lot of features in the trailers that aren't in the game.  For example in one trailer, a wrestler is coming off the top rope for an attack against Brock Lesnar, but Lesnar catches him and reverses it into his finisher, the F5.  In the finished product, you can't catch someone doing a flying attack, let alone reverse it into a finisher.  Hell, the last THQ one I played like 10 years after this, you still couldn't do that.  That's fucking amazing.  This is one example but there's plenty of others where fans have noticed the game shown in trailers and previews from right before they lost the contract was more polished and had more features.  No one has ever admitted to it for obvious reasons, but the general consensus among the fans is that they must've been so pissed that when they sent the game off to be printed, they sent an old beta build.  On one hand, they screwed the fans who didn't do anything to them but buy their last available product.  That sucks, it does.  But I can see where they were coming from too.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:53 pm




Quarians going to the new galaxy make no fucking sense. ALL Quarians were recalled back to the fleet. Hell we do not even SEE quarians in the galaxy aside from doing the Rannoch arc. It is already hard to believe KROGAN going but Quarians now....

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:58 pm

This would before the recall. The recall and attack on Rannoch was not long before ME3. The departure of the Initiative is before ME3. And even with a recall, not all would answer.

And I presume it wouldn't be many of them. They won't make up enemy Milky Way forces. They will be limited in NPCs on places like the Nexus and the Habitat for Turians (Fleet and Flotilla?). They will be a non-common MP class. The Quarians that are on the Initiative may have even joined BECAUSE of the rumblings of war with the Geth. They do have different factions, even if most are anti-Geth.

Quarians live in the galaxy long-term. They're just a distinct minority and often regarded with derision. I don't think there's many wide laws of 'Quarian individuals will be expelled'. There's enough to imagine up to thousands (at the very most?) of Quarians joining the Initiative, but only enough to establish maybe, say, one attempted colony on one major Habitat.

Not sure how the whole Geth data and using it works.

Its the contrivance that annoys me some, if anything. Not the explanations themselves. These are not a lot of people. There are billions of Krogan, millions of Quarians, they can both spare thousands (maybe hundreds of Quarians to be more realistic there). They do not all operate in lockstep on every civilization-scale action. Both races live in galactic society to some extent. Quarians may be outcasts, but they're not individually shut out of everything. Krogan may be outcasts, but obviously not entirely if we see them hanging out on the Citadel.


edit for accuracy

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:53 pm

crash23 wrote:This would before the recall. The recall and attack on Rannoch was not long before ME3. The departure of the Initiative is before ME3. And even with a recall, not all would answer.

And I presume it wouldn't be many of them. They won't make up enemy Milky Way forces. They will be limited in NPCs on places like the Nexus and the Habitat for Turians (Fleet and Flotilla?). They will be a non-common MP class. The Quarians that are on the Initiative may have even joined BECAUSE of the rumblings of war with the Geth. They do have different factions, even if most are anti-Geth.

Quarians live in the galaxy long-term. They're just a distinct minority and often regarded with derision. I don't think there's many wide laws of 'Quarian individuals will be expelled'. There's enough to imagine up to thousands (at the very most?) of Quarians joining the Initiative, but only enough to establish maybe, say, one attempted colony on one major Habitat.

Not sure how the whole Geth data and using it works.

Its the contrivance that annoys me some, if anything. Not the explanations themselves. These are not a lot of people. There are billions of Krogan, millions of Quarians, they can both spare thousands (maybe hundreds of Quarians to be more realistic there). They do not all operate in lockstep on every civilization-scale action. Both races live in galactic society to some extent. Quarians may be outcasts, but they're not individually shut out of everything. Krogan may be outcasts, but obviously not entirely if we see them hanging out on the Citadel.


edit for accuracy

*not all would answer* That isn't likely though. We know the timeframe takes place after Liara becomes shadow broker and before ME3. The recall happened Prior to then. There isn't no reason to why the Quarians wouldn't want to return to the fleet. Hell even the quarians that DIDN"T want war still returned to the fleet. Plus even lets say a few didn't return why the hell is it that everywhere we go there are no quarians other than Rannoch? Not eve on Horizon we see any.

Plus sparing any amount of quarians on this journey is a risk for the fleet if they are going to a full on war.

The Krogan going still makes no sense. despite "sparing" some they wouldn't survive in the new galaxy with just huge numbers alone. Hell the birthrate is piss onto this for not as long as the genophage is still a problem, and if the other aliens CURE it there. I swear to god bioware just really wants to fuck up Mordins sacrifice or tuchanka arc in general.

Money system would not make sense if we still use credits since even with a 10 year head start the other arcs ships had. This would mean the other aliens have similar currency which makes no sense. Not to mention why is it that we are dominating a galaxy in a sense that is technically SHOULD be way advance than us since to be fair if Bioware is going with the route about "Reapers never went there" then by god are we seriously getting another "technology is bad or synthetics problem" since we are basically fighting huge mechs in the trailers have shown.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:21 pm

*not all would answer* That isn't likely though. We know the timeframe takes place after Liara becomes shadow broker and before ME3. The recall happened Prior to then. There isn't no reason to why the Quarians wouldn't want to return to the fleet. Hell even the quarians that DIDN"T want war still returned to the fleet. Plus even lets say a few didn't return why the hell is it that everywhere we go there are no quarians other than Rannoch? Not eve on Horizon we see any.

Liara can become Shadow Broker before or after ME2's Suicide Mission AND Tali Loyalty mission can be before or after ME2's Suicide Mission.
The recall is after all this, but before the beginning of ME3.
They have the Andromeda Initiative leave before the recall. AKA between anything ME2, and before the start of ME3.
My 'not all would answer' is indeed a stretch, but only a stretch. We don't know everyone answered. We only saw the majority who did. We saw enough for Tali to despair in losing all hope for her people if you pick Geth on Rannoch.
This doesn't mean that every single Quarian left for Rannoch. It means a recall happened and that many answered. Probably at least almost all, sure. But you're not really factoring in Quarians as individuals if you don't account for their choice not to answer.
Regardless, it is far more likely written that the Initiative recruits before the recall, and leaves before the recall. That totally fits into the timeline. It is contrived, and we have the constant question of "WHY DID SHEPARD NEVER HEAR ABOUT THIS?", but it does have internal logic.

Plus sparing any amount of quarians on this journey is a risk for the fleet if they are going to a full on war.

They did not decide on war in ME2. They were having a debate over it. The recall of Quarians from Pilgrimage was months after anything we see in ME2, and shortly before the start of ME3. That's a period of months where a number of Quarians could have been poached. I would not be surprised to see in MEA a gist that the Quarians who left, were often those who were of the opinion that colonizing another planet than Rannoch was ideal. It can even be written that since the Quarians lost those people's opinion, the agreement to attack the Geth on Rannoch became much more inevitable. Thanks guys!

By the way, you're not counting exiles. I can't count them easily either, but in a population of tens of millions of Quarians, I'm certain there's at least hundreds of exiles out there - even if it'd be silly to assume every one of them would go on this trip.

The Krogan going still makes no sense. despite "sparing" some they wouldn't survive in the new galaxy with just huge numbers alone. Hell the birthrate is piss onto this for not as long as the genophage is still a problem, and if the other aliens CURE it there. I swear to god bioware just really wants to fuck up Mordins sacrifice or tuchanka arc in general.

Who is sparing what? Wrex/Wreav is unifying clans in ME2, but he definitely does not have full authority over everything they do.

The genophage is NOT the only problem. This is made very clear. The problem is that the Krogan do NOT unify to sustain a lowered birthrate, and they kill each other or get killed in combat at a hugely higher rate than other races, and that they were already adjusting to the genophage biologically but the STG cut that route off. For example, Wrex is bitter as hell about the genophage, but even he knows that its a possibility that if he people just got their damn act together, calmed down the constant fighting, and devoted some time to breeding, they had a shot. He was not depressed about that concept, and was happier in ME2 when it seemed they were on that route. It is in ME3 that he, like a lot of other characters and factions, sees a shot for the bigger prize in the midst of chaos.

We don't know anything about a cure in Andromeda and I doubt it will happen. I predict something more measured, if anything. I don't expect MEA to end (optionally or not) with some flourishing Super Tuchanka like the Extended Cut slides can show from the Milky Way.

It appears only one clan left for Andromeda, Nakmor, and it is one with little presence in the trilogy. All of its separation from the other clans can probably easily happen in the period between ME2 and ME3. Or even a schism in the middle of the clan. Any story to explain that can be in MEA itself, not easily guessable ATM. Considering Nakmor is one of the clans absorbed by Urdnot, but also that we sometimes see turmoil in reaction to such a unification, it wouldn't be surprising to see at least a lot of one clan try to go their own way.



Money system would not make sense if we still use credits since even with a 10 year head start the other arcs ships had. This would mean the other aliens have similar currency which makes no sense. Not to mention why is it that we are dominating a galaxy in a sense that is technically SHOULD be way advance than us since to be fair if Bioware is going with the route about "Reapers never went there" then by god are we seriously getting another "technology is bad or synthetics problem" since we are basically fighting huge mechs in the trailers have shown.

I don't see it as impossible to set up a more localized currency-based economic system in years.

We are not dominating the galaxy because the place is a pit of conflict and dangers, and we are in a worse spot than expected. Initiative, Angara, Kett, Remnant or Scourge, its a lot keeping us from 'dominating'. Having economy happening on multiple planets is not the same as dominating a galactic cluster. It seems most economy will happen between Milky Way races with interest in keeping a credits system, with Angara only joining on on this. It seems the Angara may be under control of the Kett, so the ones we deal with are the outliers, the occupied, the resistance, so they have little choice but to adapt to us or else continue under the Kett. Guessing tho.

I dunno about the big problem. But if anything, I'm getting more of a feeling that there is a theme of how people use technology (factions with interests), not the fact of using technology (yes or no?). This is a setting where high tech is for the taking for people whether we like it or not, compared to the Milky Way where we were on a guided track (Citadel, Relays) and at times able to, or having to destroy that track (kill Reapers).

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:15 am

Quarians have space AIDS.  They made a HUGE deal of there being only one planet they can live on.  The suit rats being there is retarded, plain and simple.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Jusseb on Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:41 am

I actually can't believe the release date is in a few weeks. It's been so long.

Something inside me wants it to be good, but that's the old fanboy talking. I know it will be something totally different to why I'm still here, the love for the old franchise.

My money's on a hybrid between Dragon Age Inquisition VS Horizon Zero Dawn.

Will I play it? I still haven't decided it yet.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:54 pm

I'm gonna play it. It won't change my feelings on IT or the ME3 ending one jot.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:13 pm

Got it, Deluxe. Gifted, so I didn't so much have the purchase dilemma.

In terms of MP packs, likely never buying.

In terms of SP DLC, probably getting them at least at some point, possibly getting it as just some collection on discount down the line (2018).

This'll determine any of my remaining care about the series.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by WeAreHarbinger on Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:09 pm

If i EVER play it, and that's a strong if...because right now even with IT stuff aside nothing grips me about trailers or articles. I'll probably grab it when it's been out a while, i know how it ends, why and it's been discounted. My hope is ME:A is standalone, which i'm okay with, EA needs the money and will use the ME franchise, but right now i'm keeping my money. I'll be sad to see ME3 MP die, EA will kill it off almost quickly to make people move to Andromeda MP, which i can't buy just for the MP alone, no matter how much i loved it.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by MaximizedAction on Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:36 pm



We got a cameo...audeo.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Jusseb on Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:19 am

Terrible voice acting and facial expressions.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by windsurfing on Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:31 pm

1:50 that's a talking plank. This game needs the TUGS award for animation. The rest of the NPC look sort of like cartoonish, it's been made worse for some reason compared to what was seen prior.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Der Wahnsinn on Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:13 pm

I was not going to write anything about ... five years of disappointment, yes today is that day, but I saw this: "Five years ago today you saved the Milky Way. Next stop, Andromeda" Excuse me ? EXCUSE ME ? WHAT !!!!??????  I did not save anything or anyone. The only thing I did was ... talking with some space shit and watching bullshit space shits. And lots of WTF also has been said. This thing called Milky Way or whatever this shit is , still needs to be saved from reapers.
Source: https://www.facebook.com/BioWare/
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:12 pm

Achievement list is out.

Spoiler:
Mostly either predictable, or hiding story details which is fine, or somewhat confirming some theories going around. If you expect a massive reveal of something (IT, whatever) in the structure itself of the main plot of MEA, you probably won't get it. But the devil may or may not be in the details, secondary content, hints.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:47 am

You guys remember that silly little bitch Selim?  LDS, Hanako Ikezawa, the little pustule went by many terrible names.  Apparently he's making a big stink because the achievement for completing 3 romances will be impossible for him because he identifies as asexual or some horseshit.

I don't even know what my point is.  I hate people.  I really, really do.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:12 am

Asexuals can do a romantic plot though. It is called roleplaying.

Selim can complain, sure, but it isn't impossible. Literally.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:57 am

crash23 wrote:Achievement list is out.

Spoiler:
Mostly either predictable, or hiding story details which is fine, or somewhat confirming some theories going around. If you expect a massive reveal of something (IT, whatever) in the structure itself of the main plot of MEA, you probably won't get it. But the devil may or may not be in the details, secondary content, hints.

They all sound boring and it seems that here is the plot. bad aliens try attacking arc ships, you save them, build outpost, and then unite them to stop the "new threat"

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:19 am

Master Blaster wrote:
crash23 wrote:Achievement list is out.

Spoiler:
Mostly either predictable, or hiding story details which is fine, or somewhat confirming some theories going around. If you expect a massive reveal of something (IT, whatever) in the structure itself of the main plot of MEA, you probably won't get it. But the devil may or may not be in the details, secondary content, hints.

They all sound boring and it seems that here is the plot. bad aliens try attacking arc ships, you save them, build outpost, and then unite them to stop the "new threat"

Achievement lists tend not to be too exciting.

http://www.xboxachievements.com/game/mass-effect/achievements/
http://www.xboxachievements.com/game/mass-effect-2/achievements/
http://www.xboxachievements.com/game/mass-effect-3/achievements/

The classic ME1 was mostly 'went to this place'. The vaunted ME2 was mostly 'recruited and loyalty' and 'beat the bad guys'. The epic ME3 was more interesting, maybe more interesting than MEA's, but still put in mostly general terms.

They try to avoid the biggest spoilers. Sometimes details or rather insinuations seep through, but don't expect to know how good the story will be through these lists.

MEA achievements summary (for anything more story related):
Spoiler:

-Become Pathfinder, get the Tempest, find a Vault
-Ally with outlaws, help colonies, establish outposts and unite them against a 'common threat'
-Make contact with Angara and save them from what is likely the Kett
-Free the Salarian ark, rescue the Asari ark*
-Help out your companions with their 'loyalty' missions, stuff like Vetra's sister, Peebee's signal, maybe the Krogan colony ship, fighting the Roekarr, etc?
-'Family secrets' event
-Activate a Remnant city and something likely Remnant called 'Meridian' for the finale

Its hard to determine what exactly are the achievements for all 6 loyalty missions or even if there's 6 of them, but that probably comes down to how they were written and not because there isn't 6.

Where the tone of ME3 achievements were more about fighting a war and gaining accolades and becoming a legend, this one is turned somewhat more to gaining mastery and obtaining greater power and secrets. At least it seems like that to me, but very subjective.

*A lost turian ark (and possibly Quarian focus or everything with them; squadmate?) looking more and more to be set for DLC.. be prepared. May have a novel dedicated to it called 'Lost Ark'. I theorize that this novel might tell the story of the ark between arriving in Andromeda and Ryder finding it.
Other books are Nexus Uprising as the prequel book, Annhilation which I have no clue about but may be a sequel book, and Initiation which I have little clue about except that the achievement to get the Tempest is called 'Initiation' so maybe it has to do with the future of the Initiative and Tempest after MEA? *shrug*.

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