(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:40 pm



Liara fucking knew

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by windsurfing on Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:42 pm

Jusseb wrote:

A comparison between ten years (ME1 vs ME:A). Are they really proud of this game?

Man this game will destroy the whole ME name.

I'm like ;


Yeah everyone of the humans in ME1 had a decent level of facial expression that came very close to matching the tone of the dialogue delivered for the most part. What they lacked at the time was complex shaders to give details to the skin, sub-surface light scattering etc not to mention the lack of GPU horsepower. For 2017 the new leaps of technology are a given because most games have them and we have the compute power to render them with decent frame rates at 1080p
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:12 pm

Potential romance spoilers
Spoiler:


I realise this is supposed to be awkward. With more work the scene might have been funny and endearing. But the intentional awkwardness of the scene is amplified so much by the wooden animations and line delivery. It's awkwardness squared. It's just far too much.

Also, in a role playing game, shouldn't we be able to decide on Sara's personality? What if I want to play her as someone who's confident and perfectly at ease with that sort of situation? I can't because the writers have decided she's a hopeless ditz, behaving like she's out of a bad episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

The Salarian's line was good though. I think I might warm to him.

Edit: maybe it would have played out better if the guy who recorded this chose the second option about science, rather than hammering the heart icon. Perhaps they intend you to come across as desperate if you slavishly hit it too often?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:16 pm

How can they fuck up SO badly? This game has been in development for four or five fucking years!

It appears to be a trainwreck in almost ever imaginable way.

But I just can't get over how godawful the characters look. The animation is SO terrible. All the characters look like dead-eyed mannequins with moving lips. It's just mind-blowing, the facial animation in the first game was LEAGUES better. That was 2006 FFS! Not only that, the characters actually looked good. Now they're completely hideous!

smh

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by smash016 on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:36 pm

Kinda looks like everyone's a closeted evil android.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by jojon2se on Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:06 am

windsurfing wrote:
Yeah everyone of the humans in ME1 had a decent level of facial expression that came very close to matching the tone of the dialogue delivered for the most part. What they lacked at the time was complex shaders to give details to the skin, sub-surface light scattering etc not to mention the lack of GPU horsepower. For 2017 the new leaps of technology are a given because most games have them and we have the compute power to render them with decent frame rates at 1080p

I do recall noticing that there was at least a normal map, in ME1, that faded in whenever a character furrowed their brow, and whilst it was pre-sss days, the asari seemed to have their own skin shader (and/or possibly separate lighting, although I'd guess just some extra diffuse ambient base light), which faked an sss-like effect to the point they got something of a soft pearlescent quality to them -- this was changed to something more leathery/scaly in the sequels. Btw; I also found the locomotion animations quite smooth and natural, with a sense of momentum, and well worked out morphing between sets, compared to later games, which along with gameplay changes presumably opted for snappy responsiveness and a drastically reduced memory budget, over any other concerns (abrupt transitions, gorilla walk, no holstering, glueing oneself to wall at the press of a button, triggering prebaked moving-from-cover-to-cover anim at another, etc).

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Jusseb on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:02 am

First reviews are up. Mostly in the 6-ish / 7-ish range.

Most important conclusion: It's not that good and pales in comparison to the first 3 games.


Last edited by Jusseb on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:03 am

Sounds like technical developments kept it from 80s and then lack of other outstanding quality kept it from 90s.

So still fun and an improvement in various aspects but definitely not the peak of the series (even counting out bugs/animations).


Also I've seen the ending and while I can't speak to variations of how it plays out, it definitely ends in the same place and while it avoids the ME3 ending problem, it also plays out arguably weaker than either ME1 or ME2. Serviceable and possibly very enjoyable when you/I get to it, but like DAI, kinda hollow appearing and just opening up to getting more content/the next game.


EDIT: I wanna say I'll probably have more fun with MEA than ME1 (which even at the time I wasn't too enthralled with outside of Virmire onward and the potential of the series) and consider it better in aspects than ME2 and ME3, but maybe both those two games are better *products*. That's a shame, but not surprising for 'Bioware Montreal'. It also doesn't stop my order of the game. It will bring hesitation for DLC and incessant skepticism for any future game.


Last edited by crash23 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:03 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:38 am

I liked Total Biscuits analysis of it all last night.

"Most people don't seem to be aware that Andromeda is not developed by Bioware, but a sub studio formed in 2009 to do grunt work for the main devs that has never made a full game before themselves. Explains a few things and demonstrates how using the strength of a brand like Bioware to market a title can be a double-edged sword. People expect a certain level of quality from a studio like that and when they don't get it in some areas of the game they get loud about it."

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:49 am

smash016 wrote:Actually, the first trilogy was a Matrix-esque Reaper simulation. In my personal Scary Door La La Land, anyway.

I'm glad it took 3ish years for the thread to deteriorate to this point. Back in the day it was hard enough getting people to give IT a chance without all you tinfoil hat wearing motherfuckers spouting nonsense about Udina secretly being an Elcor and the Reaper invasion actually just being an insurance scam by Elkoss Combine.  What sane, intelligent person would give IT a chance when most of the IT'ers believe all sorts of hare-brained nonsense and think microwaves are the feds' way of spying on them?  I don't blame them, I probably wouldn't give it a chance under those circumstances either.

Seriously, why do you bring this up here? I'm prepared to be affronted, go ahead.

What part was hard to understand?

- I think it's EXTREMELY likely that they're going to include some IT-esque hints of something sinister and Reapery.
- This will not be for the more artistic reasons that IT happened, this will be to get speculation groups like ours to spend money on their garbage.
- I'm advising people not to give them that money because it's a raw deal for us, as it will just end with BW counting their money instead of doing a legitimate reveal as they let the dumbest 90% of their fanbase ostracize us for being able to make connections without being outright told.

I don't think I can put it any simpler than that.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:24 am


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:27 am


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TurianRebel212 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:30 am

Rifneno wrote:
TurianRebel212 wrote:IT confirmed????-

https://youtu.be/tEc0sWXpSAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdzL0K8KWbE


Lol. Have you seen the new 2001 Space Odyssey????

Here's a quick teaser bro-


https://youtu.be/7p5dTS-4isI


Enjoy all the integrity and artistry!


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:48 am

TurianRebel212 wrote:
Rifneno wrote:
TurianRebel212 wrote:IT confirmed????-

https://youtu.be/tEc0sWXpSAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdzL0K8KWbE


Lol. Have you seen the new 2001 Space Odyssey????

Here's a quick teaser bro-


https://youtu.be/7p5dTS-4isI


Enjoy all the integrity and artistry!


well that made me spit my coffee out :)

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by windsurfing on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:19 pm

This thing is not worth more than 5 bucks, 10 if you are feeling unreasonably generous. Unless you want to get nightmares with Ryder derpy face for having paid full price for this horseshit. Well actually horseshit is worth more and actually useful, great fertilizer.

When the reviewers give 6ish-7ish it means it's actually even worse. You can tell right away in the opening sequences with the poor high school level trash jokes and dreadful writing. Some of the voice acting sounded good but what good is it when the rest of it is pathetic? Breaks immersion and causes only distractions more than half the time.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:37 pm

windsurfing wrote:When the reviewers give 6ish-7ish it means it's actually even worse.

Truth.  Reviewers are typically like "awful game, 9/10."  "There was no game, the box was just full of dirty needles.  8.5/10.  Will lower to 8/10 if the HIV tests come back positive."

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:56 pm

windsurfing wrote:This thing is not worth more than 5 bucks, 10 if you are feeling unreasonably generous. Unless you want to get nightmares with Ryder derpy face for having paid full price for this horseshit. Well actually horseshit is worth more and actually useful, great fertilizer.

for the shits and giggles...

Just to watch Bioware finally disappear down the toilet without confirming IT.


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Valsamon on Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:38 pm

Played all 10 hours of the trial in Single Player over the weekend.

So far the story comes off as a slightly clumsy if well-intended tribute to ME1.
There are some minor animation glitches (mostly the eyes), some of the voice acting choices are bizarre, and i swear there is a very mild memory leak that starts to drag framerates down after 3-4 hours (though that could just be my system).
All of the above can and should be patched, and did not stop me actually enjoying the game.
I know.  Heresy.

SPOILERS
Spoiler:

Headaches, buzzing / ringing in ears
Check

Black tendrils around vision
Check

White transition screens directly copied from ME3 dream sequences / beam run laser hit
Check

Actual FMV sequence showing AI controlled nanides latching onto neurons in the main characters brain (ME: Retribution)
Check

This isnt exactly subtle.  So yes, my interest is piqued for now

Side note:
The collective internet shit-fit over the animation glitches is almost embarassing to look at after playing the game.

I'm trying to imagine people saying ME3 is only worth 5 or 10 bucks, because of the odd momentary glitch...
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:15 pm

Valsamon wrote:Played all 10 hours of the trial in Single Player over the weekend.

So far the story comes off as a slightly clumsy if well-intended tribute to ME1.
There are some minor animation glitches (mostly the eyes), some of the voice acting choices are bizarre, and i swear there is a very mild memory leak that starts to drag framerates down after 3-4 hours (though that could just be my system).
All of the above can and should be patched, and did not stop me actually enjoying the game.
I know.  Heresy.




Spoiler:

Headaches, buzzing / ringing in ears
Check

Black tendrils around vision
Check

White transition screens directly copied from ME3 dream sequences / beam run laser hit
Check

Actual FMV sequence showing AI controlled nanides latching onto neurons in the main characters brain (ME: Retribution)
Check

This isnt exactly subtle.  So yes, my interest is piqued for now



Didn't I just make a post about how they're obviously gonna bait us?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by vlad78 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:57 pm

Rifneno wrote:
Valsamon wrote:Played all 10 hours of the trial in Single Player over the weekend.

So far the story comes off as a slightly clumsy if well-intended tribute to ME1.
There are some minor animation glitches (mostly the eyes), some of the voice acting choices are bizarre, and i swear there is a very mild memory leak that starts to drag framerates down after 3-4 hours (though that could just be my system).
All of the above can and should be patched, and did not stop me actually enjoying the game.
I know.  Heresy.




Spoiler:

Headaches, buzzing / ringing in ears
Check

Black tendrils around vision
Check

White transition screens directly copied from ME3 dream sequences / beam run laser hit
Check

Actual FMV sequence showing AI controlled nanides latching onto neurons in the main characters brain (ME: Retribution)
Check

This isnt exactly subtle.  So yes, my interest is piqued for now



Didn't I just make a post about how they're obviously gonna bait us?

Rif, given that it's so painful to you, why are you still here? Take your red pills and go to bed. The IT as you dreamed it will never exist, but there is so much more in ME.


BTW Cerberus funding the Andromeda initiative is 99,9% confirmed. Again what would be their interest if they work for the reapers. Something else has sent those poor souls to the edge of the andromeda galaxy.

Spoiler:
Starts at 24:39


About the game, some said the facial animations work much better if you have a very powerful computer, can someone confirm?
I've seen things both terrible and terrific in the videos. It probably won't be the best ME game, but it won't be a totally crappy game imho. And I love peebee.


Last edited by vlad78 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:00 pm

Where I can have agreement with Rif is that (at least if they keep on what seems to be the current plan; reception to MEA may change this) if there's any bigger strangeness going on anywhere in the writing, they seem set to at least stretch it out to an unbearable extent to extract dollars, and it probably shouldn't be rewarded for that.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:47 pm

Valsamon wrote:
Spoiler:

Headaches, buzzing / ringing in ears
Check

Black tendrils around vision
Check

White transition screens directly copied from ME3 dream sequences / beam run laser hit
Check

Actual FMV sequence showing AI controlled nanides latching onto neurons in the main characters brain (ME: Retribution)
Check

This isnt exactly subtle.  So yes, my interest is piqued for now

Spoiler:

The hallucination of ghostly presences (aka Starchild), check.

Alien voices in the mind, check (during the dreams (infrasonic), TIM scene (ultrasonic), Starchild scene (infrasonic), and the Normandy crash scene (infrasonic))

Psychological conditioning, check (see ending notes on Brave New World book):

*snip*
In both Huxley's World State and the actual world government, conditioning is the governments' tool of shaping and molding its citizens to its desired will through means of subliminal teaching that will make the citizens think and believe as the governments desire them to do. These desired thoughts are outlandish and highly deceiving; They will make people think and believe that "Everybody's happy now" despite the amount of governmental ordered injustice, deceit, and murder (75). These thoughts and ideas are secretively implanted through open and continuous assaults through any means possible; The assaults are coming, from governmental hypnopaedia to small friendly comments.

Just replace the word government with Reapers, and citizens with people like Shepard. Hypnopaedia is the method of learning by hearing while asleep or under hypnosis. So the Reapers trying to influence you while you're asleep or unconscious seems probable.

Infrasonic noise, check (verified by frequency analysis)

Feelings of being watched, check (Shepard's idle animation throughout ME3 has him looking over his shoulder)

Feelings of betraying friends (shooting Anderson, and supposedly "killing" all synthetics in destroy)

Feelings of superstitious awe (Shepard on his hands and knees and the Starchild standing over him like a God, until he is ordered to get up)


Last edited by magnetite on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by windsurfing on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:21 am

vlad78 wrote:
About the game, some said the facial animations work much better if you have a very powerful computer, can someone confirm?
I've seen things both terrible and terrific in the videos. It probably won't be the best ME game, but it won't be a totally crappy game imho. And I love peebee.

That's all bro-science nothing more. The animations are not like shader code, it is a pre-baked set of repeatable routines after motion capture of the movements of a real human artist. The run through of the routine is too trivial even a system from 1997 can do it no problem. The compute is very trivial because it is not a varying random set of computations. In Bioware's case performance MoCap only seems to be done from the neck down for most characters. Alec Ryder and Dunn seem like exceptions, though the quality isn't on the level of true facial MoCap there either. Facial animations have been hand animated, a technique Bioware has been using for ages without any interest to improve upon based on the technologies available today. Today you can do high fidelity facial renders that give near life like expressions true to tone of dialogue being delivered. So many games already employ varieties of technologies to achieve this, they only cut back on textures and shader compute to save GPU compute power. The big embarrassment is that the trilogy has better hand animated expressions than ME:A. This is a sign of skill difference, who ever did it in the past for the trilogy are no longer on this project and it shows.

The animations are not going to change until they add in new MoCap assets that include the faces. This means calling on performers to go through all the cut scenes all over again. If any models/VOs were used, need to call them up, book slots and make arrangements to suit their schedules. The amount of cut scenes alone will make the effort prohibitively time consuming, if such an update was delivered 5-6 months after the game launches what's the point when most who bought it already finished the game? First impression is everything. Not happening, they are busy fighting people on twitter for posting honest fair critiques about the game. Bioware are too arrogant they wont change anything now. It wont be long before Bioware labels anyone who complains about the animations as a "vocal minority" Laughing


Last edited by windsurfing on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Eryri on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:59 pm

Well guys, it may look as though ME:Andromeda is full of butchered lore, an ill conceived plot and eldritch facial animations, but "have a little faith" as someone once said. Here's an excerpt from the Prequel novel that addresses all those concerns ;-)

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/03/20/mass-effect-andromeda-prequel/#more-435293
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:46 pm

“So, anyway, we’ve found a desert.”
“A… desert?”
“It’s quite a pretty desert.” The asari considered it. “Oooh, and there’s that one planet with the floating-”
“Nobody cares about the fucking floating rocks!” Tann gritted his teeth. He was a bipedal amphibian from the other side of the galaxy, and even he’d seen Avatar. “Why did we bother, people? Why did come out all this way if everything was just going be the same as home?”
“At least there’s no Reapers?”
“What’s a-” His fingers made air-quotes of their own volition- “Reaper?”
“Oh, yeah. We don’t know that yet.” The asari paused. “Is my right eyeball stuck in the corner of my eye again?”
“Yes.”
“Goddess. I’ll go pop it back into place with a cocktail stick.”

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