(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:45 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:

Most of those theories are random "what if" scenarios, and have very little to support them, and some of those theories use elements that are more cleverly covered in IT.

I've read quite a few theories (more or less compatible with IT) on these boards that were much better though out and interesting.

Ah well.

Just having a little fun.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by KneeTheCap on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:54 pm

So, looking back at how (apparently) poorly Andromeda sold and was received, could Bioware be able to "salvage" the series by using the indoctrination theory and making a new game that happens right after the Harbinger blast? Would it save the series or would it be too little too late?

I'm not saying they'll ever do that, but what if they did? Would it give them praise or would it kill the series for good?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:39 pm

An Indoctrination Theory based salvaging of the series would officially have taken too long to be relevant barring an extensive 4K remastering and rerelease of the entire series in the coming years. EA is on record saying they don't do those. Why salvage Mass Effect when you have Star Wars?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by jojon2se on Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:31 pm

I guess waiting for irrelevance also means zero remaining ingoing player attachment to Shepard, avoiding outcry if we revisit the Milky Way for the next harvest cycle, and find it per tradition spearheaded by the youngest addition to the Reaper fleet... :P

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:48 pm

Aaron Flynn is out: http://blog.bioware.com/2017/07/18/thank-you-for-everything/

Spoiler:
Thank You For Everything
by Author - BioWare
Posted on  - July 18, 2017
From Aaryn Flynn, General Manager of BioWare

After 17 years with BioWare, today I announced that I’ll be leaving the studio at the end of July, and that Casey Hudson is returning to Edmonton to take on the role of General Manager for BioWare.

I joined BioWare in Edmonton right out of University. I was privileged to get a chance to join a group of people working on the coolest, most creative things I could imagine. Growing up at BioWare, the events in my life are intimately intertwined with events at the studio. I got married just after we finished Neverwinter Nights. My first son was born while we were wrapping up Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, while my second son was born right after Jade Empire.

From my first day until now, I have learned much, met great colleagues and friends, and got the chance to help give players some truly incredible experiences. Every time I think I’ve found a favourite game making experience, we start something new and somehow find fun and satisfaction in the new challenges.

I have been contemplating changes in my own life for some time, but when I heard that Casey had confirmed he was up for the task, I realized the opportunities before us. I will be working with him over the next couple of weeks to help catch him up and do my part to set him up for success to be the best GM he can be.

In closing, let me thank our players for everything they’ve given us over these many years, and to say from the bottom of my heart how important you are to me and the rest of BioWare. I have gone to work every day knowing that I am fortunate to have all of the opportunities I have had at BioWare because of you. Doing whatever I could to help our developers create some of the best games in the industry for you all has been the most humbling experience of my life. Now, I’ll be playing BioWare’s games in the future from an exciting new perspective – yours :)

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:51 pm

Casey Hudson is in: http://blog.bioware.com/2017/07/18/coming-home/

Spoiler:
Coming Home
by Author - BioWare
Posted on - July 18, 2017
From Casey Hudson, Incoming General Manager of BioWare

Almost twenty years ago, I decided to apply for a job as a technical artist at a local video game company in Edmonton. Young, and fresh out of University, I’m not sure what I expected it to lead to. But it was the beginning of a career full of experiences and shared accomplishments I never could have dreamed of. So when I left BioWare three years ago, it was the most difficult decision of my career. I needed some time off, needed a bit of change, and wanted to get involved in the new wave of disruptive technologies that were emerging.

The last few years have been transformative for me, from having time to reflect on what I most want to do, to working with new technologies at platform scale. And now, I’m thrilled to have the opportunity to return to lead BioWare – a studio that I think of as home.

I’d also like to wish my good friend Aaryn Flynn the very best in the future. Aaryn and I have worked together from the earliest days of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, to setting the foundation for Anthem. We’ve been through a lot together, and we’re all going to miss his presence at the studio.

I think I speak for everyone who has worked with Aaryn – and our fans – when I say thank you for everything. BioWare continues to hold a special magic – full of profoundly talented people, and an inspiring creative energy. When I look at the stunning progress Aaryn and the team has made with Anthem, and the other projects in the works, I truly believe our best is yet to come.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:25 pm

So guise. I found this atrocity recently:



All the shit in that game that was cut short for lack of resources. All the alien species use human Mantis gunships, for example. Nobody else has any helicopter equivalent. Because there wasn't time to design them. All the Reapers that are "unique" all use Sovereign's model. The entire Rachni ordeal.

All that shit that needed polish and extra time, and they wanted to do a bunch of gay sex scenes and then force their socio-political bullshit down everyone's throats while a galactic invasion fleet of Lovecraftian horrors is torture-murdering trillions. Everyone and everything we've ever known is about to be destroyed and erased from history, it's the perfect time for an after school special about gays!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:29 pm

You're spreading a hoax. A very transparent one too.

edit; Nevermind, I suppose your phrasing includes a deniability.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:51 pm

crash23 wrote:You're spreading a hoax. A very transparent one too.

edit; Nevermind, I suppose your phrasing includes a deniability.

Eh.  Wasn't sure if it was legit, but I've been fighting so many SJW shitheads, and with BW's previous bullshit, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was legit.  Look at DA2, or this Jaal ordeal.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by crash23 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:55 pm

Rifneno wrote:
crash23 wrote:You're spreading a hoax. A very transparent one too.

edit; Nevermind, I suppose your phrasing includes a deniability.

Eh.  Wasn't sure if it was legit, but I've been fighting so many SJW shitheads, and with BW's previous bullshit, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was legit.  Look at DA2, or this Jaal ordeal.

Both DA2 and Jaal are in realistic boundaries, even if disagreed with by many and indicative of the company culture. That image, however, is intentional and completely farcical hate-mongering (not to far from 'EVERYTHING IS GAY YOU HOMOPHOBES!!! GAY MAKE OUT PARTIES ALL THE TIME!'), like much of what Hepler got. One can easily make a good list of clear lies or misrepresentations about her, which is stupid to do or believe, because its not like there isn't things to disagree with her on, or even consider her inappropriate for game development if you're so inclined.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:14 am

crash23 wrote:
Rifneno wrote:
crash23 wrote:You're spreading a hoax. A very transparent one too.

edit; Nevermind, I suppose your phrasing includes a deniability.

Eh.  Wasn't sure if it was legit, but I've been fighting so many SJW shitheads, and with BW's previous bullshit, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was legit.  Look at DA2, or this Jaal ordeal.

Both DA2 and Jaal are in realistic boundaries, even if disagreed with by many and indicative of the company culture. That image, however, is intentional and completely farcical hate-mongering (not to far from 'EVERYTHING IS GAY YOU HOMOPHOBES!!! GAY MAKE OUT PARTIES ALL THE TIME!'), like much of what Hepler got. One can easily make a good list of clear lies or misrepresentations about her, which is stupid to do or believe, because its not like there isn't things to disagree with her on, or even consider her inappropriate for game development if you're so inclined.

Huh.  I forgot all about the Hepler thing.  Yeah, if I'd remembered that nonsense I'd have taken it with a grain of salt.  I didn't pay attention to WHICH BW name it was, just that it was a BW name.

And no, they were not "within realistic boundaries."  DA2 had every character bisexual, which is something you'd expect to find suggested in a tumblr blog that uses the word "mansplaining" without irony.  And you literally couldn't be disinterested in man-on-man action without being a homophobe.  One of the guys comes onto you, and there's 2 dialogue options: "I want to suck cock" and "Ew, a gay, get away, I don't want to catch teh gay!"  Again, something you'd expect out of tumblr.

The Jaal thing is clear indication that they're caving to whatever bullshit the SJWs suggest demand.  Admittedly, that's 5 years old and in hindsight they weren't doing it then.  But they are now.  Like I've said on the topic before: yeah, datamined dialogue suggests Jaal was originally going to be bi.  That means less than nothing.  You can say the same of a lot of straight characters, including Ashley, and one her chief character traits is being an advant follower of a religion that's notorious for its anti-LGBT stances.  You can find a lot of other things unrelated to sexuality, too.  Mordin could originally hold the biotic bubble.  But he's not even a biotic, let alone a powerful one.  And he has a conflict with Grunt like Tali and Legion or Jack and Miranda have.  But Grunt doesn't give a shit about the genophage, and even if he did, how would he know Mordin helped with it?  Datamining shows a lot of what was briefly considered before the characters were fleshed out.  But they took that Jaal nonsense and ran with it, making up propaganda about how his being gay was cut because TEH PATRIARCHY or some drivel.  And instead of ignoring it or even just clarifying it was a remnant of before the character had been fully written, they conceded to the SJW cunts and rewrote things.  They are straight up pandering to the absolute worst part of the communities.  So no, I abso-fucking-lutely refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt on SJW rhetoric.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:35 am

The Jaal thing really should have been a "All you humans look alike" business from the get go. They should have pulled one of those by now.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:07 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:The Jaal thing really should have been a "All you humans look alike" business from the get go.  They should have pulled one of those by now.
I haven't played MEA because I have common sense, but do all of... whatever species Jaal comes from look the same?  In order for the "humans all look the same" thing to work, then said species would have to not rely on facial recognition like we do to begin with.  It'd work for hanar, for example.  Probably elcor too.  But it wouldn't work for turians because they have significant facial distinctions.  The species would have to rely on other means to differentiate one another.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how well the "humans look alike" thing would ever work.  Even animals that differentiate by things like scent can easily differentiate humans by gender.  There's more extreme examples of sexual dimorphism on Earth (especially in the oceans, look at anglerfish) but humans' sexual dimorphism is pretty big.  Even if you're not a species that'll notice the difference in facial bones, males are significantly bigger than females, females have softer skin and features, enlarged breasts due to humans having an inlaid mouth, entirely different voice ranges...  even for an alien it'd be easy to tell which gender a human is.  And if they've got a decent sense of smell (which we don't, we lost most of ours when we domesticated dogs, because evolution always takes away toys you're not using) we're teeming with pheromones too.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:39 am

Somebody said this was dropped off at Goodwill:



I'm fuckin' dying omg

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:04 pm

Rifneno wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:The Jaal thing really should have been a "All you humans look alike" business from the get go.  They should have pulled one of those by now.
I haven't played MEA because I have common sense, but do all of... whatever species Jaal comes from look the same?  *snip*

I haven't seen a female angara naked, but though they do have structural differences.  Thing is, the angara make a big deal of their tactile bioelectric abilities that allow them to interface with remnant technology.  From a writing standpoint, I think it's a missed opportunity to make that bioelectric field business be more integral to their mating process as opposed to, say, crotch ornaments.  And that's all I am pointing out: it's a missed opportunity to have an alien race so mismatched with human physiology that they're blind to differences that are obvious to us.  Yet strangely enough even the hanar can tell us apart; that's just how the game is.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by triggerwarning on Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:04 pm

What impact, if any, does Casey Hudson returning to the fold mean for the future of Mass Effect?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:50 pm

triggerwarning wrote:What impact, if any, does Casey Hudson returning to the fold mean for the future of Mass Effect?

Uh, time will tell?

He's in charge of BioWare as a whole now, isn't he? Mass Effect might be his baby, but I recall he felt burned by the reaction to ME3's ending. He might not want to return to directing a Mass Effect game. On the other hand, he reportedly liked the Indoctrination Theory, or portions thereof; he took inspiration directly from efforts to identify where Shepard's rubble pile was / the true nature of the decision chamber and incorporate those themes into the Leviathan DLC. So who can tell?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Master Blaster on Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:58 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:
triggerwarning wrote:What impact, if any, does Casey Hudson returning to the fold mean for the future of Mass Effect?

Uh, time will tell?

He's in charge of BioWare as a whole now, isn't he?  Mass Effect might be his baby, but I recall he felt burned by the reaction to ME3's ending.  He might not want to return to directing a Mass Effect game.  On the other hand, he reportedly liked the Indoctrination Theory, or portions thereof; he took inspiration directly from efforts to identify where Shepard's rubble pile was / the true nature of the decision chamber and incorporate those themes into the Leviathan DLC.  So who can tell?

If he does go with the theory on a slim chance then it depends on what they intend to do with what happens. Personally if there is ever a new ME game "Not for quite a while" then i say having a prologue about Shepard on a mission would be cool but at the end Shepard is snapped back out or his "indoctrinated state of "bliss" mind and see the horrors of what is happening. Thus we would play as a new protagonist and in a way pleases the fans about Shepard returning while also starting fresh. Though i do not want a clone Shepard esc mindset since when we do not control Shepard well....Shepard choices are shit.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:22 am

Rif: Smart enough to intellectually tear apart your oppressive regimes. Dumb enough to be a clinically retarded homophobic bigot.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:25 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:An Indoctrination Theory based salvaging of the series would officially have taken too long to be relevant barring an extensive 4K remastering and rerelease of the entire series in the coming years.  EA is on record saying they don't do those.  Why salvage Mass Effect when you have Star Wars?
I don't even think it's context based like that. More generally, why put all that effort into reviving a series when you can just scrap it and make a new one that catches onto the mindless masses in and of itself?

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:32 am

KneeTheCap wrote:Could Bioware be able to "salvage" the series by using the indoctrination theory and making a new game that happens right after the Harbinger blast? Would it save the series or would it be too little too late?
Neither. It's not about too soon or too late, nor would it be recieved well. The reality is, IT is not the kind of thing the vast majority of people are into. Having to think is the bane of their existence, I am not even joking. Every time I analyze a plot on the basis of legit factors, the first person to respond to me is always some fuckwad who says "You're overanalyzing it, it's just a video game/comic/movie/show/whathaveyou."

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:31 pm

TerramineLightvoid wrote:Rif: Smart enough to intellectually tear apart your oppressive regimes. Dumb enough to be a clinically retarded homophobic bigot.

What are you on about, cuck?

... Huh. I wonder where that came from. That's not in my standard repertoire. You must be subconsciously reminding me of a Yenmancer. You're a Yenmancer, aren't you?

TerramineLightvoid wrote:
ZerebusPrime wrote:An Indoctrination Theory based salvaging of the series would officially have taken too long to be relevant barring an extensive 4K remastering and rerelease of the entire series in the coming years.  EA is on record saying they don't do those.  Why salvage Mass Effect when you have Star Wars?
I don't even think it's context based like that. More generally, why put all that effort into reviving a series when you can just scrap it and make a new one that catches onto the mindless masses in and of itself?

TerramineLightvoid wrote:
KneeTheCap wrote:Could Bioware be able to "salvage" the series by using the indoctrination theory and making a new game that happens right after the Harbinger blast? Would it save the series or would it be too little too late?
Neither. It's not about too soon or too late, nor would it be recieved well. The reality is, IT is not the kind of thing the vast majority of people are into. Having to think is the bane of their existence, I am not even joking. Every time I analyze a plot on the basis of legit factors, the first person to respond to me is always some fuckwad who says "You're overanalyzing it, it's just a video game/comic/movie/show/whathaveyou."

The filthy Yenmancer is right, as much as I hate to say it. There's a reason there's so little entertainment that's as intellectually stimulating as IT was for us. Because there's no market for it. Why go out of your way to appeal to 0.5% of the market? It doesn't make any sense. Market to the dumb majority. That's why Michael Bay has a pony made out of diamonds from making brain-cancer simulator Transformer movies.

The best we can realistically hope for is for history to agree with us. For 50 years from now, the trilogy being considered a classic worthy of the kind of analysis we put into it. Well, I suppose it's possible we'll eventually get a confirmation the same way Valve's poor bastard fanbase got HL3. When asked if they'd ever reveal the intentions they compared it to Blade Runner, whose big theory ("Wait, was the main character a synth?") was confirmed around 20 years after release. We're a quarter of the way there. But I'd consider the future to agree with us to be a greater victory.

The only chance of actually seeing IT picked up is very, VERY slim: Hudson having been really into it and, now that he's in charge, forcing the issue. Like ME4 not being shit after "Andromeda" was announced, I'm sure we'll see talk about that here in the coming years. But like that, it's just wishful thinking with no logical reason to believe it even might be true.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:46 am

Rifneno wrote:What are you on about, Alpha?
You called homosexual socio-politics "bullshit" and said it was being "forced". How is it bullshit if it's not wrong that homosexuality is perfectly okay? And how is one being "force fed" something they already agree with? I can understand the criticism about the focus on sociopolitics in general at the expense of much more important shit, that much I agree with. Unless you were in fact calling all of sociopolitics bullshit, rather than that very specific branch? Which is also understandable I suppose. That would just be an issue of values/principles.

You just come off as borderline homophobic. Shrug.

There's a reason there's so little entertainment that's as intellectually stimulating as IT was for us.  Because there's no market for it.  Why go out of your way to appeal to 0.5% of the market?  It doesn't make any sense.  Market to the dumb majority.  That's why Michael Bay has a pony made out of diamonds from making brain-cancer simulator Transformer movies.

The best we can realistically hope for is for history to agree with us.  For 50 years from now, the trilogy being considered a classic worthy of the kind of analysis we put into it.  Well, I suppose it's possible we'll eventually get a confirmation the same way Valve's poor bastard fanbase got HL3.  When asked if they'd ever reveal the intentions they compared it to Blade Runner, whose big theory ("Wait, was the main character a synth?") was confirmed around 20 years after release.  We're a quarter of the way there.  But I'd consider the future to agree with us to be a greater victory.

The only chance of actually seeing IT picked up is very, VERY slim: Hudson having been really into it and, now that he's in charge, forcing the issue.  Like ME4 not being shit after "Andromeda" was announced, I'm sure we'll see talk about that here in the coming years.  But like that, it's just wishful thinking with no logical reason to believe it even might be true.
Right, in fact IT itself happened because very particular individuals in this case. Deliberately chose to be complex, intricate, and thought provoking with their storywriting. Just cause... well... just cause. Cause they were intellectuals themselves. The issue then was a fundamental difference in what each of those people considered "thought provoking". We can see this in that one dark/shadowy MMO that was released after ME3. They tried to appeal to the conspiracy/revelation type thinking. But in this case it was trying way too hard, was nowhere near as subtle as what was seen in IT. Most likely because DK's methodology is much more subtle and clever than that. Which he was out the door by time ME3 came around.

You do see this market somewhere. In indie games. But it's still a rarity there because pretty much anybody can make an indie game. So that same dumb majority is the majority of the indie gaming community.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Rifneno on Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:51 am

TerramineLightvoid wrote:You called homosexual socio-politics "bullshit" and said it was being "forced". How is it bullshit if it's not wrong that homosexuality is perfectly okay? And how is one being "force fed" something they already agree with? I can understand the criticism about the focus on sociopolitics in general at the expense of much more important shit, that much I agree with. Unless you were in fact calling all of sociopolitics bullshit, rather than that very specific branch? Which is also understandable I suppose. That would just be an issue of values/principles.

Yeah, I'm bitching about the sociopolitical nonsense from SJWs. Do you see anyone else doing sociopolitical bullshit? Because I don't. At least not in the media I'm into. If Tolkien was still around I'd tell him to shove his luddite allegories back up his ass where they came from. But he's dead. So I'll bitch about people who are alive. People I wish weren't alive. People like Gearbox, who take time out of what amounts to a small-scale genocide simulator to whine about the evils of MISOGYNY and for the lesbian character to interrupt every conversation, even ones she's miles away from, to scream "Have I mentioned lately that I love pussy?"

If you absolutely have to stick your sociopolitical message in, don't be a retard, weave it in as a subtle theme. Like how Mass Effect weaved in "synthesis = incomprehensible horror always" but did it so well that dumb people and even some more intelligent people who weren't pay attention hadn't noticed it. Just having character interrupt the entertainment to inform you of the writer's political views is as lazy as it is retarded.

Also: okay, yeah, I can think of one instance. I see a lot of media making fun of Trump. I'm not bothered by this despite it being just as heavy-handed. Does that make me a hypocrite? Yes. But fuck it. Because fuck Trump. If aliens find Earth with him still in the office, they're going to go full fucking Exterminatus on us. And they'll be right to do so!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:15 pm


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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