(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Tue May 22, 2018 6:51 am

MaximizedAction wrote:If the news I've seen so far and journalists are representative of how the majority of people think of the sudden, what feels to be out of the blue, peace talks, smiles and literal handholding between NK and SK: 
that it's something to only be happy about, look forward to, speak high praises of Kim and at no time think "wtf" or second guess, even if it's a happy alternative to a grim reality,
then it was probably true that the majority of people chose Synthesis, peace and eternal handholding and genuinely liked it.

World at peace under synthesis?



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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by Maximus on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:34 am

People believe what Mass Media want them to believe. There is power in Control.

Cut your news feed, ignore Television. You'll be happier that way.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:39 am

I'm definitely happy with no cable TV and no news channels. Still use my TV to watch the things I want to watch. All streamed over my private network via HTTPS (encrypted), then decrypted on my AV receiver and displayed on my TV via HDMI.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:27 am

Stopped watching mainstream news in the UK years ago. The Media drives opinion and is better avoided. Make your own mind up.

Watch and investigate on line. Search for real facts as opposed to media facts. There are things happening on this planet every second of every day that the media would not dare report on, or have been forbidden from doing so.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:58 pm

What about secondary sites that report the news, such as techradar.com? They aren't mainstream media, but they still report some kind of news. All those sites are still technically media or "the press".
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:29 am

Rifneno wrote:
TerramineLightvoid wrote:I think I can actually express what you are trying to say, more concisely and less circular.

Dork's post: 266 characters

Your post: 6,476 characters

Nailed it like the fuckin' Romans!
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Dork's post: Destroy is the right choice because because.

Me: Destroy is the right choice because, when you delve into the details, that is what the entire trilogy has thematically rigged as being the final chekov's gun.

I ironically COULD have phrased my more "concise" post, more concisely. But it doesn't change the fact that at least by the part of the definition of concise which means "to the point", I was more "on point". The kind of concise I lacked, is in the part that is about being as concise as possible, or in other words to reduce the amount of work involved to reach that point.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:48 am

There's definitely a larger statement here about the 1% "overlords" of the real world. You will accept anything as long as it favors your comfort zone. This message was made painfully clear actually with both, that scene with Joker, as well as the contrast to that scene aka the Citadel DLC.

I think the point to the DLC was that Shepard was falling into the pits of indoctrination, and I think Clone Shepard was the direct battle with Indoctrination. Upon killing the clone, Shepard is supposed to walk away reminded of what's important and go face the Reapers. It also adds depth here, because the vanilla story was a lot more bare here. Shepard just marches to planet earth without even flinching knowing evactly what is likely going to happen? I mean I know Shepard is a badass, but they died once already... there's no way this person wasn't shaken to their very core.

Shepard every step of the way, was given more and more reasons to question their very existence and identity. I don't see why they WOULDN'T have to stop and have a big mental battle to settle such thoughts once and for all. It always happens, it's part of the Hero's journey. They have to resolve whatever internal roadblocks they have that will interfere in their ability to do what they need to do.

Anyways my point is, Shepard fought everything the "Overlords" were trying to convince them of. Just as we must learn to fight all these manipulative and conning machinations of corrupt society. To not be... "Sheeple".

I mean the term Indoctrination is in essence just "Brainwashing". Which is something that you actually do have to worry about in the real world. Because brainwashing is just the transcendent result of convincing someone of lots of little lies that lead to a specific mindset or belief, etc. What fast food corporations do with their advertisements could and probably should be considered a form of brainwashing.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:58 am

TerramineLightvoid wrote:
Rifneno wrote:
TerramineLightvoid wrote:I think I can actually express what you are trying to say, more concisely and less circular.

Dork's post: 266 characters

Your post: 6,476 characters

Nailed it like the fuckin' Romans!
-_-
Dork's post: Destroy is the right choice because because.


It's the right choice because it's the only time you will have a chance for that to happen. It's a right choice because when something huge and almost godlike kills everyone you know it's time for payback.

well that's my two because's. Did I miss any? Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to go do some real life fucking shit.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:38 pm

Destroy is the right choice, because the antagonists of the series support the other two (or three, with refuse) choices.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:06 pm

magnetite wrote:Destroy is the right choice, because the antagonists of the series support the other two (or three, with refuse) choices.
This is the most concise post possible in regards to this statement. I just like discussing the details and intricacies of it.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:26 pm

On an actually "on topic" mass effect related post, I started getting back to Mass Effect Andromeda and continuing the story. I stopped playing for a while because I've been addicted to Dragonball Xenoverse 2 and Starwars Battelfront 2, specifically because of the online competitive multiplayer. I haven't tried MEA Online yet. Xenoverse 2 Online is full of cheesers and spammers, but it's still fun to play if you put the ego aside. Battlefront 2 is "perfect" as it's gonna get since removing the loot crate shit.

Anyways, seeing the way the baddies here work. They really do have the exact same motives as the Reapers and there is a parallel between Harbinger and Archon. I think what we may be seeing here is that, Andromeda and the Milky Way have 2 completely different evolutionary cycles. Andromeda for some reason leads to cycles that birth arrogant species that become so advanced that they try to control everything else in the universe. The cycle before this one, the Reapers were chased out of Andromeda likely by The Crucible. A weapon developed by their truest rivals. This is where the Reapers came to our Galaxy, and discovered our galaxy's cycle. Including the genetic tendency towards mind control that a lot of milky way species tend to possess. This is where they discovered Indoctrination and where they started to become so successful. They overcame their rival through development of Indoctrination technology.


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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:32 pm

They built Andromeda in ways where it was relatable to the trilogy, but at the same time something different. Not just with the antagonists and such.

Doesn't feel too alien.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:39 am

magnetite wrote:They built Andromeda in ways where it was relatable to the trilogy, but at the same time something different. Not just with the antagonists and such.

Doesn't feel too alien.
I don't see that as explaining it, it's down to the very things that Archon says and the way the species is structured. So much so that the person who designed the Kett would've had to of played the trilogy many times over to really grasp it on their own. Even just the parallel to the way the Kett turn other species into them, merging themselves with the genetic pros of other species.

I mean how can you seriously ignore that they basically said, like it's almost unavoidable really that... the scourge was generated by a weapon at the same scale at the very least, to the Crucible? Why even bring that up and make it a thing? That's automatically a whole lot more eerie and suspicious than just trying to make it "familiar". Especially since actually, the Crucible itself isn't familiar to us. It's the most out of place thing in the entire trilogy and the thing that was central to people being pissed off about the ending of the trilogy? Literally countless people directed their complaints at the idea of the Crucible itself. That it was basically "space magic".

Meanwhile the Scourge itself and how it got there is completely central to this story's plot, and yet it is almost clear as day that they are saying some kind of Crucible-Like weapon, was the cause of it. It only gets worse the more you analyze it. Especially when you consider that before the EC, Destroy basically destroyed all the Mass Relays... which unto itself was a massive travel limitation. Very much akin to some black distrupting chaos shit being spread all over.

I'm sorry but I just can't see it as anything other than a very deliberate and indirect way of reavealing where the Crucible came from. I can't see it as anything other than "Boom, the Scourge was caused by a Crucible." Especially when we're not given any other examples in the entire series of "Galactic-Scale Mass Effect Weapons".

And the Scourge is undeniably a weakness of the Reapers. There's no way something like it wouldn't fuck with the synthetic half of their physiology. Which goes back to that original draft paper that mentions that the Crucible was somehow a weakness to the Reaper's physiology. Ding, ding, ding.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:04 pm

Don't the Kett take the DNA in other species and merge it with their own? Isn't that what the Reapers do?

I didn't exactly say everything was relatable though, otherwise the story behind Andromeda would be exactly the same as the trilogy.

The Crucible wasn't technically space magic, it was implied that the Reapers essentially planted the blueprints for people to find and hoping to fall into the Reaper's trap. Most of the choices it provides are in the Reaper's favor, except the one they don't want you to pick.

It's like playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun, and only one of those bullet chambers being empty (where you get to live).

It's pretty evident with the "clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized". There was another line during the Illusive Man sequence when the Illusive Man talks about controlling the Reapers with the Crucible, and then Shepard says "the Reapers built the relays, it's all part of the same trap"!

How it works is extremely advanced, because the Reapers designed the thing. It's far beyond your comprehension, as they like to say. So no one can comprehend how it really works or what it does. So all they can come up with is theories, but the people playing the game are demanding an actual explanation they can understand, other than "space magic".

It actually fits quite well, if people look at it from the point where the Reapers are behind it.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:41 am

Ah, the current state of my all time favorite game series...



...hunky dory, a - ok, fantastic.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:51 pm

I do kind of miss all the IT discussion we had back in the day, but you can still find shreds of discussion by searching for it. I love this person's take on it, and their name, LOL!
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:55 am

I seem to recall going on record saying that it could be the fifth Mass Effect game before any resolution is reached. I just didn't think that the fifth installment would be fifteen or more years after the third.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:36 am

Not sure what to make of a resolution. I've checked the game files and it says the following:

1. Control: Become a Reaper.
2. Synthesis: Synergy (merge with Reapers).
3. Destroy: Reapers destroyed, Earth okay, Shepard alive.

Besides, why would two of the choices have a resolution, but in order to get a resolution for choosing high EMS destroy, you need to wait to purchase or for another game to be made?
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by ZerebusPrime on Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:52 am

Yeah, no, wrong resolution. I just want an objective after-action report on the state of the Milky Way galaxy post ME3.
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by dorktainian on Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:26 pm

[Shepard to a shocked commitee of Alliance leaders asking what to do] The only thing we can do. We fight or we die!

Anything else is giving up control of your own destiny. Submission and defeat.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by magnetite on Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:10 pm

I remember the internet making fun of that line back in the day. Maybe it had an actual meaning to it?

They were hoping that you'd pick something else, based on the fact that destroying the Reapers doesn't just destroy the Reapers, it also would destroy the mass relays, all synthetic life, and a few other things. Based on the power of this suggestion, if you believed it, the player might not make this choice. Oh, and the other stuff about them suggesting that synthesis and control being better solutions.

It's a form of manipulation.

Some guy asked me if the Crucible is a Reaper trap, why do they allow you to destroy them at all? Or why are they attacking the Crucible if it is a trap, etc.

Maybe with the way the ending is presented with everything in reverse, you are attacking the Crucible, and the Reapers are trying to defend it? Same way that control & synthesis=good, and destroy=bad to the Reapers. However, in reality, it's the other way around.


Last edited by magnetite on Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:43 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:07 pm

magnetite wrote:Don't the Kett take the DNA in other species and merge it with their own? Isn't that what the Reapers do?

I didn't exactly say everything was relatable though, otherwise the story behind Andromeda would be exactly the same as the trilogy.
It's one thing when you copy /ARCHETYPES/ and thematic patterns wiithin a story because either you really do want it to be "familiar", or because you're not the original genius that went into making a game and you just decided to spew out some crap.

But it's a wholly different thing when down to details, details as specific and complex as "They do the same exact technological trends, their goals are worded the same so much so that if you read either character's dialogue in the other's voice it would sound like something that was already worded by either character to begin with 1 for 1. Etc.

The point I'm trying to emphasize here is, just how "ripped off" the Kett are. It's a feat that doesn't actually make sense, for a lazy cop out. It's too much work and completely unnecessary and actually the wrong way to go about it.

The Crucible wasn't technically space magic, it was implied that the Reapers essentially planted the blueprints for people to find and hoping to fall into the Reaper's trap. Most of the choices it provides are in the Reaper's favor, except the one they don't want you to pick.
I know this and it was me that originally emphasized this actually and brought it up as a main line of discussion where it was mostly me and Rif that was really bent on it. I'm beyond certain that's what it is. The game itself makes it clear how advanced the Mass Relays are, and only even more so how advanced the Citadel is. But some random 50,000 year old species, managed to build something that could utilize it as a galactic weapon? They had enough know how, to make that possible? Lolwat. Meanwhile the Prothean's best attempt at reaching the comprehension level of the Mass Relays, was basically the Micropenis of technological comparison?

But see this is also where things can really tie in with the Arks in MEA. Because why in the ever loving fuck, does it have a design based on or similar to, the Citadel? It literally has Citadel arms that serve no actual purpose, which we've deduced those arms and that design is to reflect unconscious transportation technology that was designed by the Reapers. Their design is to include a much more rigid and spaceship like design that still vaguely references their tentacaloid form. The design of the Reapers themselves is specifically because they are Synthetic-Organic hybrids, so they need flexible limbs and such. They are designed like giant living metal cuttlefish. Like Leviathan that gave themselves legs and without the need to breathe at all, little alone under water.[Altho I am skeptical that the Reapers came from an Aquatic species to begin with, we have seen plenty of plantoid and insectoid lifeforms that also fit along the right lines to say that the predeccesor of the Reapers could be either of those. Which we then can deduce that the Reapers are Insectoid, because the Keepers are insectoid. It's quite the coincidence that their most organic minions happen to be insectoid. With no explanation of why they even have such a preserved species amidst their ranks to begin with. They could have altered them to be just as distorted as the Collectors, or better yet make them wholly robotic. But nope, just this cute little organic insect thing. There's a creature in MEA that is being studied by the Kett that has physiology that eerily matches the physiology of the Reapers, just FYI. Not saying it's /that/ species specifically, but MEA does show a predisposition to such insectoid species with such physiological design to them.]

That and because it was strategically adventageous to build a way to lock the citadel up and remove any and all entrace to it. But the method they chose for that just happened to resemble a "closing hand" or closing tentacles. So to then see what is the same exact design, on yet again some vastly advanced technology that we just mysteriously found in the middle of space just like the Mass Relays. Should basically be enough to say, that the Arks are Reaper Technology.

What this means exactly is not clear. But I find it kind of hard to believe that the Reapers would have any motive deliberately facilitating the escape of a cycle's people. I mean their whole thing is complete annihilation and erasure for a reason. So escaping on the arks definitely seems like the exact opposite of what they would want. The main explanation would be that it was something the Reapers had overlooked/forgot about. I know that sounds ridiculous for the Reapers to do, but if this was specifically a case of the arks originally being how some early pre-colossal and pre-indoctrination predecessors of the Reapers as we know them today, got to the Milky Way in the first place. Then it would make a lot more sense.

It's either this, or we're gonna have to conclude that the Reapers lied about being the originators of their own technology and that they are just another cog in this weird pattern of species ripping off their predecessors. But even that would only unravel the image that the Reapers have portrayed, and would call into question just how old and native to the Milky Way they are.

It's like playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun, and only one of those bullet chambers being empty (where you get to live).
Actually, I would think it's just flat out Russian Roulette, 1 bullet and all. I think 2 of the choices is a misfire, neither side gets shot. While 2 of the choices is 1 or the other getting shot.

What do I mean by this? Well contrary to popular belief, I don't think the Reapers want you to select control at all. I mean look at the fact that they would have never dared to have TIM actually go through with control. If TIM kills you in that confrontation, he just stands there and then walks aside. He doesn't do anything to go about making control happen. My guess is because Control is nothing more than a failsafe, which you never consider a failsafe to be a desireable point to reach. You try to avoid it at all costs, but it's there should you need a "last resort". Thus Control is just tricking the character into killing theirself. Like Icarus who flew too close to the sun. It's the Reapers way of saying that if you try, well there's the door right there to become king... walk through it. As soon as you do, you find yourself falling into a pit filled with spikes. So it's a blank in the larger scheme of things. Refuse is also a Blank or equivalent to not firing the gun at all(same result) which isn't really a good thing at all because we still have the nigh impossible to beat Reapers to deal with. Synthesis is shooting ourselves and is Mass Indoctrination. Destroy is shooting the Reapers, specifically because you destroy the Citadel and possibly the Mass Relay network? And/or release Scourge all over the Milky Way Galaxy.

As far as the possibility for it releasing scourge goes. It could be the unintentional side effect of releasing massive amounts of ME energy. Making it identical to the original Dark Energy plot problem... which makes sense cause the Scourge is Dark Energy and happens when you release mass amounts of energy.

It's pretty evident with the "clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized".
But only resourceful enough to blow some shit up and cause chaos out of sheer ignorance. Pretty much what TIM said, but "shooting things mindlessly" is the anathema of the Reapers and what they represent. So he was wrong that there was anything wrong with that and what Shepard essentially represented. The Reapers see us as Chaos, there isn't a war, specifically because what it really is... is us /rebelling/. A rebellion isn't a war, it's a 1 sided fight where 1 side of the equation devolves into Chaos in response to oppression.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:22 pm

ZerebusPrime wrote:I seem to recall going on record saying that it could be the fifth Mass Effect game before any resolution is reached.  I just didn't think that the fifth installment would be fifteen or more years after the third.
Well you'd definitely think it'd "have" to be. There's only 3 options here, ironically:

1.The series dies with Andromeda.
2.They make sequels to Andromeda.
3.They revisit the Milky Way.

Number 1 isn't really an option, that's just the equivalent of "Game Over" for Mass Effect and Bioware's ability to keep the series going. Number 2 would contradict their original statements that MEA was just going to be a "side story". Which btw is what's most interesting about MEA, because it's not even intended as a main storyline. Despite the fact that they could have asserted it as a full on sequel to ME3.

Which makes 1 and 3 the most likely scenarios here. Either the series dies, or they revisit the Milky Way post-ME3 after they've had a long time to think about how to do that.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:29 pm

dorktainian wrote:[Shepard to a shocked commitee of Alliance leaders asking what to do] The only thing we can do. We fight or we die!

Anything else is giving up control of your own destiny.  Submission and defeat.
Eh, technically nothing ideological will ever be that black or white. The fact of the matter is, the one thing the ending to Mass Effect could never actually address is... the guy who chooses Control or Synthesis out of sheer Nihilism. Not someone who picks it because they are gullible, but actually instead someone who knows exactly what it is and chooses it anyways because they just want to watch the world burn... lol

I mean shit, when I think about being given a button that when pushed would end the world. I seriously can't say I know what I'd choose to do. Because even just the planet earth and the Human species is corrupt as all hell. Thinking about that corruption and evil on a galactic scale almost makes me want to be a giant robot cuttlefish overlord that clenses/reaps everything every 50,000 years lol

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:49 pm

ZerebusPrime wrote:Yeah, no, wrong resolution.  I just want an objective after-action report on the state of the Milky Way galaxy post ME3.
Yeah, even if they just decide to go with "space magic" and kill IT. You find out in the aftermath that the Reapers were destroyed, but they were destroyed by the Crucible as shown. At least then there would be closure one way or the other.

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Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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