The Indoctrination Initiative

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The Indoctrination Initiative

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:50 pm

So I'm just going to throw together my own Mass Effect Andromeda "theory", based on everything I've seen in the new game. I'll just put it straight to the point:

The "Remnant"? What are they a Remnant of? The Reapers. The true source of the reapers, before they evolved to assimilate organic beings into their own physiology. Aka, the Reapers were naturally occuring AI technology. It's something Scientists have actually talked about a few times now. The possibility for life to evolve dependent upon much more metal based minerals and such.

The reason I am absolutely convinced of this is because we basically see a synthetic Race, that looks technologically exactly like Reapers and Reapertech. Even to the point where they take on reptilian/ambibian biology. The "Conduit", is a giant snake who shoots dark energy powered weapons through a RED LIGHT IN THE CENTER OF IT'S "MOUTH". YOU HAVE TO SHOOT THE RED LIGHT/WEAPON TO KILL IT.

Also based on everything we know. We KNOW that the Remnant, whoever they actually were, were dethroned because of this mysterious interstellar weapon that somehow caused the "Scourge". Almost definitely the same technology as the Crucible. The blueprints for the Crucible came from whoever was warring with the Reapers in Andromeda. Unstable Dark Energy would be a massive weakness for Reapers, because we've seen what it does to regular technology as well Mass Effect based technology. For Reapers, this would be like ripping through their organs with an energy sword.

Whoever it was that was warring with the Reapers, chased the Reapers to the Milky Way. That's why the Arks were there. They created the Crucible blueprints by adapting their technology to the relay network and the Citadel. They created something that could wipe the Reapers out once and for all. A massive Scource generator that spreads the Scourge literally completely around the entire galaxy.

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Re: The Indoctrination Initiative

Post by felpscross on Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:01 am

I tend to be very careful going beyond the original trilogy with the IT. I prefer to headcanon the initiative based on the first ark theory that surfaced long ago when Andromeda was only leaks. Beyond that, I really don't relate anything from Andromeda to the ot, especially the IT. It stops making sense outside of the Milky Way for me.

Thing is, Andromeda is such a Halo ripoff that I can't fit it anywhere in the ME universe. It has such bad and linear writing that I can't analyse it in any perspective other than the literal interpretation. The OT has way deeper narrative. That's how I feel, anyways. I really hope they reboot it again.

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Re: The Indoctrination Initiative

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:58 am

felpscross wrote:I tend to be very careful going beyond the original trilogy with the IT. I prefer to headcanon the initiative based on the first ark theory that surfaced long ago when Andromeda was only leaks. Beyond that, I really don't relate anything from Andromeda to the ot, especially the IT. It stops making sense outside of the Milky Way for me.

Thing is, Andromeda is such a Halo ripoff that I can't fit it anywhere in the ME universe. It has such bad and linear writing that I can't analyse it in any perspective other than the literal interpretation. The OT has way deeper narrative. That's how I feel, anyways. I really hope they reboot it again.
Eh, I think for the most part I'm different from most people here because I got immersed in the entire trilogy practically all at the same time. I bought the first and second games with all of their expansions, at the same time. Which was within the same month that 3 was coming out, but I didn't even know that until after I completed ME2. I remember when I beat ME1 I felt completely blown away by how amazing it was. I was like "where the fuck was this game my whole life?" and I knew the second one was gonna be just as amazing. When I beat ME2, my thoughts were only confirmed 10 fold. I was practically shitting bricks, and when I heard 3 was coming out I was anticipating it big time.

By time 3 came around... I didn't necessarily feel disappointed, just very confused. I mean I already sensed Indoctrination was going on to some degree, even if I didn't notice at the time, the mountain of evidence that ITers later uncovered. Especially during the ending, I knew what I was being shown and told. The point was, a Reaper Collective Conscious was trying to convince me to join them and I was like... lolno. I did not even hesitate to go for Destroy as fast as possible.

Thing is, even as bewildered as I was by the whole trilogy. It all happened so fast like a roller coaster. Plus, I just generally don't get that bent out of shape when a work of fiction goes south. I'm used to media being crap, I got way more than I could have expected already. In any case, it wasn't that hard to try Mass Effect Andromeda just for the sake of seeing what it TRIED to offer. In that case I don't see the "uh oh" with trying to be as expansive as possible when coming up with ideas about it. It's just a game, just like the trilogy. All the more reason to sit back and lower your expectations while letting your imagination run wild.

I agree that the narrative of MEA is very shallow, no doubts about that. Storywise, it is complete AIDS. I only speak of the stuff I do because my Myers Briggs personality type is ENTJ, and we are known as the most hard ass analyzers there is. Plus I'm a born Scientist. Even if I don't like the Shit, I'm gonna take it apart and analyze it's molecular and atomic make-up anyways.

For me, the things I said in the OP are virtually fact. I see patterns and I call it like I see it. Most realistically, the trilogy started dipping purely into subtelty at ME3 which was obviously because Drew Karpyshyn only had influence up to ME2. He is the creator of Mass Effect, and his style is the way of blunt revelations. But after he left that left it mainly up to the 2 dipshits that worship subtlety. This shift in direction was penultimately embodied in the Shadow Realms RPG, and especially in the cryptic promotion method they employed to get people interested. It was very "subtle IT"-like in nature. Which obviously failed horribly because barely even a year passed since they had announced it and they already canceled it LOL

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Re: The Indoctrination Initiative

Post by dorktainian on Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:39 pm

The Remnant? I assumed they were almost an equivalent of the reapers, maybe one that had advanced in a slightly different way to the Reapers. Not connected as such, but with a similar purpose. The Bonehead bad guys were just annoying. Their leader drank soap so he could blow bubbles out his head.

I have a theory on MEA. Why would the Andromeda Initiative exist? To preserve certain societies of the Milky Way from the threat of the Reapers. What if the Andromeda Initiative was suggested to TIM by the reapers as a way of allowing him to 'save' some people before betraying the rest? They give him a small gift in return for his servitude. He gets to save his daughter. It fits in with him being indoctrinated and his ultimate betrayal of humanity. Once his daughter leaves he then serves the reapers.

The game would not have tanked (before it was even released) if Bioderp had based the story on the evacuation of the milky way because of the reaper invasion. As it was the game never stood a chance. ME3 fans were still up in arms as it were from Bioderp not confirming IT and leaving the endings as a please everyone and forget about narrative coherence abortion.



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Re: The Indoctrination Initiative

Post by crash23 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:51 pm

There's no sign that the Andromeda Initiative was started by Cerberus to any extent.

There is however signs that one, up to various interests latched onto the AI to extents, and one of these interests may still be Cerberus.

It is through the non-originating interests (original being Garson's fortune) that the AI was refreshed and accelerated.

These interests may be Cerberus, but it somewhat feels like it isn't, but instead whatever Cerberus involvement is there, is relatively tangential.

But the acceleration itself was done because of the Reapers. Not necessarily specific knowledge of a specific time of their arrival, but just awareness that they're coming. Jien supposedly didn't know this, but this is a case of a private interest allowing some outside control or influence in order to get the venture funded.



One of MEA's biggest issues is that it won't commit. There was seeds of DLC, but no DLC. There was seeds of a sequel, but no sequel. There was a sense of a new start, but too much looks the same. And there were connections to the trilogy, but none of them, absolutely none of them, were tethers. So ironically when you can't commit to something, you're committing to failure, because people want *something*. Yes, *coherence*. In a way, I'm amazed anything Reaper was in MEA (the sidequest knowledge of their possible arrival to the MW). But in another way, I'm amazed that this is all they bothered with. So what do we do with this knowledge? Nothing? Move on? Expect a DLC or sequel soon enough so we don't have to be on edge about the MEA characters learning of the Reapers? No? Nothing? What? Ok?

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Re: The Indoctrination Initiative

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Tue May 01, 2018 2:02 am

dorktainian wrote:The Remnant?  I assumed they were almost an equivalent of the reapers, maybe one that had advanced in a slightly different way to the Reapers.  Not connected as such, but with a similar purpose.  The Bonehead bad guys were just annoying.  Their leader drank soap so he could blow bubbles out his head.

I have a theory on MEA.  Why would the Andromeda Initiative exist?  To preserve certain societies of the Milky Way from the threat of the Reapers. What if the Andromeda Initiative was suggested to TIM by the reapers as a way of allowing him to 'save' some people before betraying the rest?  They give him a small gift in return for his servitude.  He gets to save his daughter.   It fits in with him being indoctrinated and his ultimate betrayal of humanity.  Once his daughter leaves he then serves the reapers.
I just really can't see the Reapers allowing something like that to happen. Their whole tactic seems to be about "culling the weeds before they grow too long". Letting Milky Way inhabitants escape, especially with outright direct knowledge that the Reapers exist, is exactly the sort of thing their strategy tries to avoid at all costs.

In most cases, something like the Arks wouldn't be possible because nobody would have any idea the Reapers were coming. In a typical cycle, as soon as the Reapers pop in... everybody is fucked because all of the Mass Relays instantly get cut and nobody even knows what the Reapers are. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, the only thing that does is that this was always something they were planning on the side, and was more of a side idea for a potential solution to the end of the series. They were clearly going for an Indoc Reveal, but failing to deliver on that promise they instead had to run with Plan B which is what Andromeda is, and since most of the story was already heading for Plan A... it was a hack job trying to switch over to Plan B.

I mean in terms of the planning phase, figuring out an ending to a series always involves looking at all of the possible options. In this case, a galactic threat begets a galactic solution. Making this, the entire milky way teaming up against the reapers, or the crucible as a Reaper Erradicator, among the only few possible solutions to a galactic scale threat like the Reapers. If it was executed right it would have made perfect sense. "Shepard's and the Milky Way's sacrifice wasn't in vain because it all lead up to this situation that would have been literally impossible otherwise." An option no other cycle has ever had before.

Besides again... Remnant. Why immediately go to what is basically a shell of some former empire, as this game's true Big Bad? The "Boneheads" as you called them, were really just inspired to be the bad guys by The Remnant. It is because of the Remnant, that they wanted to amass power. Seem fimilar? Everything about it does. Everybody in the Andromeda Galaxy is following the bread crumb trails of The Remnant, they have a natural draw that causes this influence over others. A primitive form of how Reapers DELIBERATELY guide "lesser" species along the paths that /they/ desire.

All the patterns are there, even the "cuttlefish" design makes infinitely more sense than having anything to do with some supposed "Leviathan" species. As it is simply one of their newest "renditions" of themselves, stemming all the way back to when they we little anthropod and reptilian robot designs. It just keeps staring you in the face again and again, more and more details fit together the longer you pay attention. The patterns just keep emerging over and over.

The Remnant are the remnant of the Reapers.

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Re: The Indoctrination Initiative

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Tue May 01, 2018 2:10 am

crash23 wrote:One of MEA's biggest issues is that it won't commit. There was seeds of DLC, but no DLC. There was seeds of a sequel, but no sequel. There was a sense of a new start, but too much looks the same. And there were connections to the trilogy, but none of them, absolutely none of them, were tethers. So ironically when you can't commit to something, you're committing to failure, because people want *something*. Yes, *coherence*. In a way, I'm amazed anything Reaper was in MEA (the sidequest knowledge of their possible arrival to the MW). But in another way, I'm amazed that this is all they bothered with. So what do we do with this knowledge? Nothing? Move on? Expect a DLC or sequel soon enough so we don't have to be on edge about the MEA characters learning of the Reapers? No? Nothing? What? Ok?
I think basically it was supposed to be going somewhere, but in order to follow through they needed to get good enough feedback in terms of revenue, to prove to EA that this is something still worth pursuing when ME3 tanked hardcore. It was Bioware's "one last chance" to prove themselves, that ME3 was a fluke.

The Sequel would have went in the direction I am suggesting. The Remnant would be revealed to be the remnants of the early development of the Reapers. With humans and other Milky Way species already in line thanks to the Pathfinder to harness their tech in a safer way than interfacing with true full on indoctrinating Reapers. This would create a contrast. The humanity and other milky way species that we knew and loved in ME3 that wasn't powerful and capable enough to beat the Reapers... and the Andromeda versions who evolved far beyond what they used to be, by mastering the same path the Reapers took in the genuine way that isn't rigged and booby trapped by full fledged fully realized Reapers.

Making us, true rivals to the Reapers.

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Re: The Indoctrination Initiative

Post by TerramineLightvoid on Tue May 01, 2018 2:21 am

Also it should be noted that at face value the ending to ME3 is clearly meant to be largely symbolic and all about pushing a certain kind of message for the greater good. Choosing Destroy we already decided that it was critical to make sacrifices if it meant that somebody came out of it alive. Garrus even said that directly, too.

What difference would it make if that translated to "all of the milky way gets sacrificed for the sake of the Andromeda Initiative"?

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