Literalists say the darndest things

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by GethJuggernautMKII on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:39 pm

Cobretti ftw wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...

Dude. the repaers suggested all 3 endings. They explained how u could destroyed them, explained how u could control them and explained how u could synthesize organic and inorganic life.


¬¬

Actually the reapers only suggest control and synthesis. Destroy is only there because the catalyst acknowledges your original intention to destroy the reapers. It goes as far as trying to disuade you from choosing destroy.


Dissuade? DUde if the catalyst NEVER mentioned the destroy option, shepard would NEVER EVER had ANY clue of what he was supposed to do.

He suggested all 3 endings. shepard wouldnt be able to do s*** if it wasnt for the catalyst's "insight".



Right, because Shepard had no idea what he wanted to do with the reapers until the reaper overlord shows up?

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Andromidius on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:39 pm

Actually, the 'Catalyst' doesn't explain Destroy at all. He says "You could destroy us" and then lays down loads of threats and warnings about choosing that path. Only a slight glance at that tube is made, no explaination as how to use it is given. The fact Shepard shoots at it seems to be 'dream logic', infact so is Control - another option the 'Catalyst' doesn't seem so interested in - and Synthesis is never really explained either. Shepard's instructions are very vague, but Destroy is actively discouraged.

Dream logic:

Destroy - shoot at the target.
Control - hold the power in your hands.
Synthesis - leap of faith.
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Eryri on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:44 pm

I think "Dream Logic" is the best and most concise description I've heard of it.
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by BleedingUranium on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:49 pm

Andromidius wrote:Dream logic:

Destroy - shoot at the target.
Control - hold the power in your hands.
Synthesis - leap of faith.

Exactly. None of these are explained to Shepard, he just does them.
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by CoolioThane on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:07 pm

lol

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by HYR 2.1 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:22 pm

So how has the BSN received Citadel DLC?

I haven't been "over there" for some time now.

Really, though, if they still give the ending grief and are okay with that whole Clone!Shep nonsense then... then I'm done with this fanbase. Well, I've been done with them for some time now, but... yeah.
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:23 pm

I haven't really been over there either, so I can't say.

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Cyberfrog on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:00 pm

HYR 2.1 wrote:So how has the BSN received Citadel DLC?

I haven't been "over there" for some time now.

Really, though, if they still give the ending grief and are okay with that whole Clone!Shep nonsense then... then I'm done with this fanbase. Well, I've been done with them for some time now, but... yeah.
The reception is positive. The plot is ridiculous, but that's on purpose. That's the difference. The ending was "serious" "art", most people just wanted it to actually be good.

The DLC is mostly a fun goodbye to Shepard and crew (if you've already played the ending, you're not expected to go through it again). If you ARE going through to the ending, the DLC was a break from the doom & gloom of the rest of the game. Quite literally R&R for the player.
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by GethJuggernautMKII on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:24 pm

Considering we've discovered a living prothean, discovered a powerful organic race as old as the reapers, and came back from the dead, the clone plot doesnt seem so ridiculous in comparison.

The clone plot is nowhere near as ridiculous as believing the entire galaxy can be forcibly, mutated by space magic, or believing you can control an infinitely powerful race of living starships because they said you can.

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Master Blaster on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:38 am

I miss this thread.

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by magnetite on Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:02 am

I think there's some people who don't understand how an RPG works: Link
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Rifneno on Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:13 am

Our own token literalist recently busted out the cliché of BW not being able to canonize IT even if they wanted to because it'd piss off too many people. If I live to be 100, I will never understand this logic. What has the Mass Effect team done recently to indicate that they care about pissing people off beyond perhaps making a conscious effort to do it for shits and giggles?

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by magnetite on Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:33 pm

Rifneno wrote:Our own token literalist recently busted out the cliché of BW not being able to canonize IT even if they wanted to because it'd piss off too many people.  If I live to be 100, I will never understand this logic.  What has the Mass Effect team done recently to indicate that they care about pissing people off beyond perhaps making a conscious effort to do it for shits and giggles?

If the canonize IT, then people would think there's only one true ending. In a game about choice, that probably won't happen. So they just went "you decide which ending is best. We're not going to tell you".
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by MovieMachine on Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:09 pm

magnetite wrote:If they canonize IT, then people would think there's only one true ending.

With the current options given, no matter how one looks at them, there is only one true ending. The perspectives of those people who sniff glue while they are playing a game do not matter.

magnetite wrote:In a game about choice, that probably won't happen.

In a game about choices AND consequences, the most important decision of the game should not result in color-coded, nearly identical pre-rendered cutscenes.

magnetite wrote: So they just went "you decide which ending is best. We're not going to tell you".

They already told which ending is the best by adding the most obnoxious cliffhanger in videogame history at the end of a specific one.

Edit: Just realized I'm derailing this thread pretty hard.
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by dorktainian on Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:17 pm

magnetite wrote:
Rifneno wrote:Our own token literalist recently busted out the cliché of BW not being able to canonize IT even if they wanted to because it'd piss off too many people.  If I live to be 100, I will never understand this logic.  What has the Mass Effect team done recently to indicate that they care about pissing people off beyond perhaps making a conscious effort to do it for shits and giggles?

If the canonize IT, then people would think there's only one true ending. In a game about choice, that probably won't happen. So they just went "you decide which ending is best. We're not going to tell you".

as it stands.....IT is the only possible explaination for the ending.really don't see any problem with bioware acknowledging that to be honest. Although (as i've said before) i dont think IT is the only explaination - but a huge part of what actually happened.

If you literally think the endings are legit then you must be in a minority surely. Multiple choices do not always lead to multiple outcomes if there is a set ending to a story.


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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by magnetite on Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:10 pm

dork wrote:
If you literally think the endings are legit then you must be in a minority surely.  Multiple choices do not always lead to multiple outcomes if there is a set ending to a story.

Why should Bioware decide which ending is best? Why can't people make their own decisions? No matter what ending they pick, someone will be upset. Imagine if Bioware chose synthesis as the canon ending, people around here would probably think that was whack for them not choosing IT.

Other people might say that using IT would be taking a piece of fan fiction and using it as the real ending.


really don't see any problem with bioware acknowledging that to be honest.

They did acknowledge it.

Essentially they said "we don't need to explain it, it was meant to be obvious". As in, indoctrination was the actual ending. There won't be a DLC "confirming this", because it was meant to be obvious.

Maybe people think the way the ending happened wasn't really how it happened. Perhaps destroy does really destroy Reapers. Control has Reapers control you. Synthesis everyone has Reaper DNA.
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Master Blaster on Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:47 pm

"I think that Javik will not want Synthesis to be applied. But once synthesized, he will change his opinion and enjoy Synthesis advantages. Seeing the Reapers, the synthetics, the AIs, and all organic life in completely different, positive perspective will be life changing event for him. He would even change his mind about suicide eventually, I'm sure."


Also this site makes you wonder about life.


http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/17311662

Now don't get me wrong the guy ask a good question, however it's who answers his question.

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by TurianRebel212 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:13 am

Some scrub over at BSN, this was like a few days ago said that Shepard couldn't be killed....... And that Harby's beam of love was meant to kill him. but harby's NOT "good" enough, lulz. 

Yes. yes, a billion year old 3 km cuttlefish super intelligent, sapient life form of hyper and extreme power, and the oldest reaper isn't powerful enough to kill one human-albeit a very tough human. But human none the less. Yes, yes BSN that makes sense. 



BSN... In for the lulz.

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Master Blaster on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:45 am

Reorte, on 11 Jun 2014 - 6:12 PM, said:


Some might be. There's no reason to think that they are all like that and the game offers nothing to challenge that. Like I said, the huge, big important difference between "some" and "all". The capacity for that line of thinking existing is fine. Saying it is is inevitable is stupid.



AlanC9:As usual, I'm not clear why this matters. The Catalyst's wrong, yep. Always has been. So what?





AlanC9, on 10 Jun 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

   Sure. I've never met anyone who likes it, except in the sense of liking to laugh at it. But it's a small sample size.

Me:Oh really. try going back to all the pages, see how many people acknowledge IT, still believe in it, like it still, and simply look all over the Internet youtube, face book, and twitter stuff about Mass Effect, and you will find IT being talked about. It could be good or bad. You may not believe it but IT is still popular. Oh how rich. laughing at it. Tell me you know how many people laugh at synthesis? Control? Destroy? Refuse? a lot of people. If you ask me where is my proof of this, then let me ask about your proof of this other than on the BSN itself.


Last edited by Master Blaster on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:59 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Master Blaster on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:56 am

Bardox9, on 10 Jun 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

   As I've stated in other threads like this one, I think everything from the moment Shepard "wakes up" from being knocked on his ass by Harbinger is an indoctrination dream sequence like the others where Shepard is running through a forest. Everyone else that beam hit got vaporized on contact, there aren't even any ashes left behind, and yet Shepard survives it? His armor is good, but it's not that good. That beam cuts through dreadnoughts. Only way Shepard survives that is if Harbinger weakens the beam to the point it will only knock Shepard out for another round of indoctrination attempts.

   

   Examine what you see when you "wake up". The armor is completely different from what most of us had him/her wearing before. Even if it was scorched, it wouldn't look like that. The pistol that not only appears from no where but also has unlimited ammo. And who, by that point, even uses that pistol? It's heavy as hell and doesn't have any mods on it. There are mounds of bodies, with the ME1 Ashley&Kaidan armors that no one uses anymore, that were not there before. Despite the armor being torched, the radio still works somehow. Assume the radio did still work, how is Hackett suppose to know it's Shepard in there. Hackett oesn't know, because Shepard isn't in there. He's buried in London rumble dreaming. There is only one way to get to the control console and yet Anderson gets there first, even though he says he came up after Shepard, from some mystery location. You can even see the console from the top of the stairs, no Anderson. You can go back and forth, he's there when you're close and gone when you're not. You can blame that on a mapping error, but it doesn't happen anywhere else on any ME3 map. Next, TIM appears from no where and now has magic powers that make Reaper sounds. The area of the TIM/Anderson encounter looks almost exactly like TIMs office at the Cerberus base. Every area in this part looks like somewhere Shepard has been before. And the odds that this random console is one that operates the ward arms makes the very idea insane. Not to mention the part where Anderson gets shot, but Shepard gets the bullet hole. Then there is star kid (who I think is Harbinger and not this Catalyst or Citadel AI or whatever) that is a walking mass effect field that talks. During the conversation (if you can call it that) Shepard never questions what this thing is telling him/her, but in ever other conversation with anyone else through out the series he is Curious George there to ask you questions about every aspect of your existence. But ghost boy, who is puking up lie after lie, gets to say whatever he wants and Shepard just accepts it as truth?? Either getting shot turns him into the universes most gullible fool, or this is a dream. It almost never occurs to anyone to question something in a dream, you just go with it.

   

   The entire ending is just one indoctrination attempt after another. Even the last part where Joker and your squadies come out of the crashed Normandy without a scratch on them is part of the dream. Joker should have been snapped in half with those glass bones of his, but instead he is walking around and standing tall. It's all a dream. How does a dream make the Citadel arms open? How does a dream effect what the Crucible does if and when it fires? It doesn't! This is just the Reapers worming their way through Shepard's head.



Psychevore-
Everything in the above can be explained by one of the following:



-bug

-oversight

-lack of resources

-you not having your facts straight.


Me:. Look say what you will but you and I have no idea what they could mean. Your argument is yours, and our arguments are ours. You will say " This" we will say " that". They had the EC to fix it all, yet they did not. Instead they made it worse. They could have fixed all these bugs, oversight lack of resources, yet they did not. Then when LEVIATHAN came out, these "oversights, bugs, and lack of resources" began to make sense.

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by ToGanymedeandTitan on Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:12 pm

I'm not 100% sure I'm in the right place but.. I think? If I'm not, feel free to move this..

A common problem I'm seeing right now (and is giving me a freaking headache) is people 'passing the baton of morality' just because they think that Bioware were 'pushing towards the best options'. I mean take a look at this shit:



Basically, because they can't (read: won't) find fault with their OWN options, the burden is on the Destroyers/ITers to prove that there aren't any conceivable risks with their own, and while they're at it they can come up with any horrible fallacy to put down the mindset of the Destroyers as 'organics vs synthetics' (even though there are clearly much more variables than that..).
..Isn't .. that... part of making a serious decision, you actually weigh up the pros and cons of it, not fucking cherrypick all the cons out of the ones you don't like? And 'being ridiculous'? Not trusting the Catalyst is 'ridiculous' now, are you actually fucking kidding me?
'Clean, elegant solution' just.. stop. Now.

And then there's this:


'No evidence'. Right. The entire series was supposed to be against these kinds of things for Christs' sake. Remind me again why the burden is on the fans to prove them wrong..? (Kind of funny, the latter comment was from someone who didn't even know that Reaper artefacts could cause indoctrination, and used that as a reason to 'object to Indoctrination theory'. Jesus Christ, at least do half of the reading before preaching about how we're wrong.)
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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:09 pm

Literalists may say the darndest things, but some refusers take the cake. Seriously.

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Rifneno on Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:16 am


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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by BatmanTurian on Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:42 am

ToGanymedeandTitan wrote:I'm not 100% sure I'm in the right place but.. I think? If I'm not, feel free to move this..

You're in the right place. Great post.  Joyful 

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

Post by Master Blaster on Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:32 pm

BatmanTurian wrote:
ToGanymedeandTitan wrote:I'm not 100% sure I'm in the right place but.. I think? If I'm not, feel free to move this..

You're in the right place. Great post.  Joyful 

Yeap in the right place. and hey batman Turian.

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Re: Literalists say the darndest things

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