Low EMS Destroy

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Low EMS Destroy

Post by clennon8 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:04 pm

Tell me again exactly how IT gets around this scenario? Shepard does a relatively crappy job of accumulating war assets, reaches the Catalyst, and is rewarded with Destroy as the only option. It seems like the Achilles Heel of the theory.

I think this is why I prefer Deception Theory.
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Humakt on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:12 pm

Low EMS = Shepard becomes indoctrinated no matter the choice you're given (Control or Destroy depending ME 2 decision).

Low EMS destroy shows almost total annihilation. It crushes Shepard and any hope (s)he has.

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Terramine on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:14 pm

Yeah, as Humakt83 said. You get locked into 2 different endings which means both are equal. We accept Control as an indoctrinated ending, so if Low EMS Destroy is equal to Control, then Low EMS destroy is an indoctrinated ending.

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Raistlin Majere on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:18 pm

Maybe not necessarily Indoctrinated in Low EMS Destroy, maybe more that the Reapers simply realize they don't need Shepard.

At low EMS you have not exactly brought a mighty fleet to Earth, the Reapers might simply look at and laugh (or whatever they do). As such not much detail is given to Shepard's Indoctrination (thus lack of choices) as it does not matter what the outcome is, either way the Galaxy is already doomed.

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by RavenEyry on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:21 pm

"Why are you here" vs "Wake up". The reapers don't want Shepard after that pitiful display.
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by draconian139 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:40 pm

Raistlin Majere wrote:Maybe not necessarily Indoctrinated in Low EMS Destroy, maybe more that the Reapers simply realize they don't need Shepard.

At low EMS you have not exactly brought a mighty fleet to Earth, the Reapers might simply look at and laugh (or whatever they do). As such not much detail is given to Shepard's Indoctrination (thus lack of choices) as it does not matter what the outcome is, either way the Galaxy is already doomed.

Why even have the indoctrination attempt if the forces are that pathetic?
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Raistlin Majere on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:51 pm

draconian139 wrote:
Raistlin Majere wrote:Maybe not necessarily Indoctrinated in Low EMS Destroy, maybe more that the Reapers simply realize they don't need Shepard.

At low EMS you have not exactly brought a mighty fleet to Earth, the Reapers might simply look at and laugh (or whatever they do). As such not much detail is given to Shepard's Indoctrination (thus lack of choices) as it does not matter what the outcome is, either way the Galaxy is already doomed.

Why even have the indoctrination attempt if the forces are that pathetic?

It might not be a case of forcing Shepard as much as Shepard simply succumbing. It might also simply be a final insult or the Reaper's being genre savvy enough to keep the main Protagonist out of the fight for as long as possible even if victory seems completely secure.

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by RavenEyry on Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:52 pm

"Hey look, our arch nemesis just made a horribly unready attack and is now dying. Let's implant a vision of the Earth burning by their hand!"
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by solidsnake78 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:49 pm

RavenEyry wrote:"Why are you here" vs "Wake up". The reapers don't want Shepard after that pitiful display.

Couldn't of said it better, you are disappoint. Shepard

Also, why does it matter to catalyst if you kept the base or not? Obviously its only in YOUR head if you only get one choice right?

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by ElSuperGecko on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:55 pm

RavenEyry wrote:"Why are you here" vs "Wake up". The reapers don't want Shepard after that pitiful display.

Also "you have hope, more than you deserve" vs "you have hope, more than you know"

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by clennon8 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:50 pm

solidsnake78 wrote:
RavenEyry wrote:"Why are you here" vs "Wake up". The reapers don't want Shepard after that pitiful display.

Couldn't of said it better, you are disappoint. Shepard

Also, why does it matter to catalyst if you kept the base or not? Obviously its only in YOUR head if you only get one choice right?
That is elegantly explained if you think of it in terms of which proto-Reaper part was used in the construction of the Crucible. If you saved the base, the Reaper "brain" ends up being integrated into the Crucible. If you blew it up, the Reaper "heart" is used instead. The "brain" gives it more computing power, enabling Control. The "heart" gives it more destructive power, enabling Destroy.

I'm giving myself a project for this weekend. I'm going to lift TheTwilightGod's Deception Theory thread from the depths of the BSN forums, clean it up, and post it here. It's a close cousin to IT.
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Steelcan on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:33 am

clennon8 wrote:Tell me again exactly how IT gets around this scenario? Shepard does a relatively crappy job of accumulating war assets, reaches the Catalyst, and is rewarded with Destroy as the only option. It seems like the Achilles Heel of the theory.

I think this is why I prefer Deception Theory.
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by solidsnake78 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:35 am

clennon8 wrote:
solidsnake78 wrote:
RavenEyry wrote:"Why are you here" vs "Wake up". The reapers don't want Shepard after that pitiful display.

Couldn't of said it better, you are disappoint. Shepard

Also, why does it matter to catalyst if you kept the base or not? Obviously its only in YOUR head if you only get one choice right?
That is elegantly explained if you think of it in terms of which proto-Reaper part was used in the construction of the Crucible. If you saved the base, the Reaper "brain" ends up being integrated into the Crucible. If you blew it up, the Reaper "heart" is used instead. The "brain" gives it more computing power, enabling Control. The "heart" gives it more destructive power, enabling Destroy.

I'm giving myself a project for this weekend. I'm going to lift TheTwilightGod's Deception Theory thread from the depths of the BSN forums, clean it up, and post it here. It's a close cousin to IT.

Really? never heard of that, was it in the codex? Or is it just based on fan theory's?

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Hrothdane on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:52 am

solidsnake78 wrote:
clennon8 wrote:
solidsnake78 wrote:
RavenEyry wrote:"Why are you here" vs "Wake up". The reapers don't want Shepard after that pitiful display.

Couldn't of said it better, you are disappoint. Shepard

Also, why does it matter to catalyst if you kept the base or not? Obviously its only in YOUR head if you only get one choice right?
That is elegantly explained if you think of it in terms of which proto-Reaper part was used in the construction of the Crucible. If you saved the base, the Reaper "brain" ends up being integrated into the Crucible. If you blew it up, the Reaper "heart" is used instead. The "brain" gives it more computing power, enabling Control. The "heart" gives it more destructive power, enabling Destroy.

I'm giving myself a project for this weekend. I'm going to lift TheTwilightGod's Deception Theory thread from the depths of the BSN forums, clean it up, and post it here. It's a close cousin to IT.

Really? never heard of that, was it in the codex? Or is it just based on fan theory's?

Fan theory.

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Byne on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:54 am

Doesnt Deception Theory say the godchild isnt actually real, but your choice still happens? Or am I wrong?

If so, how is that even a theory? What does it change?

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Steelcan on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:56 am

Byne wrote:Doesnt Deception Theory say the godchild isnt actually real, but your choice still happens? Or am I wrong?

If so, how is that even a theory? What does it change?
I thought it was Harbinger is trying to get Shepard to pick Synthesis or Refuse, but everything is actually happening.
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Byne on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:01 am

Steelcan wrote:
Byne wrote:Doesnt Deception Theory say the godchild isnt actually real, but your choice still happens? Or am I wrong?

If so, how is that even a theory? What does it change?
I thought it was Harbinger is trying to get Shepard to pick Synthesis or Refuse, but everything is actually happening.

So, what does that change? I still dont get it.

Say Harby tricks you into picking Synthesis, and then Synthesis actually happens. Why try to trick Shepard into picking it if it isnt a trap or anything?

Harby: Pick synthesis, Shepard!
Shep: Ok, I guess its the best option.
*Shepard picks synthesis*
Harby: YOU FUCKING GOT TRICKED, DIPSHIT!
*Synthesis happens as described*


Boy, we sure have egg on our face.

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Steelcan on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:09 am

Byne wrote:
Steelcan wrote:
Byne wrote:Doesnt Deception Theory say the godchild isnt actually real, but your choice still happens? Or am I wrong?

If so, how is that even a theory? What does it change?
I thought it was Harbinger is trying to get Shepard to pick Synthesis or Refuse, but everything is actually happening.

So, what does that change? I still dont get it.

Say Harby tricks you into picking Synthesis, and then Synthesis actually happens. Why try to trick Shepard into picking it if it isnt a trap or anything?

Harby: Pick synthesis, Shepard!
Shep: Ok, I guess its the best option.
*Shepard picks synthesis*
Harby: YOU FUCKING GOT TRICKED, DIPSHIT!
*Synthesis happens as described*


Boy, we sure have egg on our face.
Well a literal interpretation of Synthesis isn't exactly a horror show. But i think the general idea is that the Catalyst is using Shepard to realize the Reapers' goal of synthesis. Whether this is good or not is another matter entirely.
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Byne on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:12 am

Steelcan wrote:Well a literal interpretation of Synthesis isn't exactly a horror show. But i think the general idea is that the Catalyst is using Shepard to realize the Reapers' goal of synthesis. Whether this is good or not is another matter entirely.

How is that a deception though? He straight up tells you that. It isnt a secret.

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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Steelcan on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:18 am

Byne wrote:
Steelcan wrote:Well a literal interpretation of Synthesis isn't exactly a horror show. But i think the general idea is that the Catalyst is using Shepard to realize the Reapers' goal of synthesis. Whether this is good or not is another matter entirely.

How is that a deception though? He straight up tells you that. It isnt a secret.
Well I think the whole idea behind Deception Theory is that Synthesis is bad even with the EC slides..... but I'm not the inventor of it, ask Twilight God
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by clennon8 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:25 am

Deception Theory basically states that the ending sequence with the Catalyst is "happening," but he is trying to indoctrinate/trick you into picking Synthesis (preferably) or Control. But the Control/Synthesis slides aren't "real." Notice they're almost entirely narrated in the future tense. They're deluded expressions of an indoctrinated mind. What *really* happens is huskification of the galaxy, or a continuation of the Harvest, or something generally unpleasant like that.

That's the gist of it. Keep in mind that I'm synopsizing a several thousand-word thesis into a short paragraph. He provides a lot of in-game evidence and logical deduction for how the Crucible works, and makes sense of some of these troubling corner-case scenarios that kind of throw a wrench in the works of IT.
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Re: Low EMS Destroy

Post by Guest on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:33 am

I honestly think a mixture of Indoctrination, Puzzle, Deception, (my own, but also at least mostly shared with others) Harvest, and other Theories is happening.

And as far as I remember, Deception Theory actually says that Shep isn't being indoctrinated over ME2-3+, does it not? It's more about the Catalyst being a liar, and the Crucible being a working weapon.

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