The Child and IT

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The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:58 pm

The child that Shepard sees killed has a great effect on Shepard. He appears in the dream sequences - in fact- is the central focus of all the dream sequences. These very dreams seem to line up well with some things we know about the effects of Indoctrination (oily shadows, whispers in your head), which all comes back to the child.

It could be that the reason the child haunts Shepard is because he is a Reaper construct, possibly the child was real at the beginning, then used by the Reapers. Or possibly a Reaper construct from the very beginning- which means the child we see on Earth was never real in the first place. After all, Shepard is the only one to take notice of this child. After all, the mere fact of the Catalyst taking the form of the child means that the Reapers were in Shepards mind to some degree, which makes an indoctrination attempt on Shepard less of a stretch.

The child at the beginning of the game is very wierd, perhaps not even real from the start. He certainly has an impact on Shepard throughout the game even though Shepard has experience worse. Was the child real even on Earth?

Shepard sees a child playing on a rooftop, then the Reapers come. The child has a short amount of time to leave the park on the roof. Later in the level, you can see the same place where the child was at the beginning of the game- except that there is not park there anymore.

Next, the kid would have to travel a very long distance to the near top of another massive building. The child can be seen sitting near the edge of that building, watching a Reaper. As you move closer, he runs through a locked door to get in the building, which is later destroyed by the Reapers. A massive explosion happens in the room where the child is hiding .

When you enter the building, you hold open a stuck door for Anderson. When Anderson goes through, Shepard goes to an air vent with the child in it. The conversation with the child is eerie ("You can't save me."), what child refuses help from a millatary officer? When Anderson aproaches, the child is gone. And a Reaper growl sounds.

At the Evac sight for the child, nobody except Shepard seems to notice him. The child struggles to climb into the shuttle, and nobody even attempts to help him. When the child climbs in, he looks up, directly at Shepard.

After all this, personally, I believe that the child was never real. The child was fake right from the start of the game. I think that the Reapers are using this child to haunt Shepard about his failure to save him. The child also appears in Shepard's dreams, these dreams include lots of Indoctrination codex clues (oily shadows for one), and to top it all off, the "Catalyst" appears as that very child.

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by draconian139 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:28 pm

Yea, I always felt like the first scene was sort of a taunt. Basically, "Your species and all of its technology are nothing but toys to us."
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Re: The Child and IT

Post by Eryri on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:00 pm

I'm inclined to agree. I don't think the kid was ever real.

The first scene on Earth, is of what we think is an Alliance shuttle. However, that turns out to be an illusion. The shuttle is merely a toy in the hands of the child. A child playing, alone and unsupervised, in a roof top garden with sheer drops on three sides, on the outskirts of a military installation. Where are his parents supposed to be?

He then teleports to a high balcony, accessible only by a locked door, or by the ladder Shepard used. He then runs straight through said locked door, which retains its red "locked" symbol even as he runs through it, before surviving a blast caused by a direct hit from a Reaper cannon.

He then speaks to Shepard from a vent next to a highly unusual warning sight - depicting a lightning bolt striking a human head. Following that weird and creepy conversation, he silently vanishes at the exact moment a passing Reaper growls menacingly. Anderson meanwhile appears to notice nothing.

When you list it all like that, it seems more than coincidental.
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Re: The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:56 pm

Eryri wrote:I'm inclined to agree. I don't think the kid was ever real.

The first scene on Earth, is of what we think is an Alliance shuttle. However, that turns out to be an illusion.

The shuttle is merely a toy in the hands of the child. A child playing, alone and unsupervised, in a roof top garden with sheer drops on three sides, on the outskirts of a military installation. Where are his parents supposed to be?

He then teleports to a high balcony, accessible only by a locked door, or by the ladder Shepard used. He then runs straight through said locked door, which retains its red "locked" symbol even as he runs through it, before surviving a blast caused by a direct hit from a Reaper cannon
He then speaks to Shepard from a vent next to a highly unusual warning sight - depicting a lightning bolt striking a human head. Following that weird and creepy conversation, he silently vanishes at the exact moment a passing Reaper growls menacingly. Anderson meanwhile appears to notice nothing.

When you list it all like that, it seems more than coincidental.
Exactly, one of the first scenes in the game is an Illusion. An Illusion facilitated by the child (It even plays the sound effect of the cruiser to fool you!). One of the last scenes in the game, the decision chamber, is an illusion, an illusion facilitated by the child.

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:59 pm

Please ignore my misusing the word "full". It should be "fool", I can't edit that from my iPod...

Just kidding. Banshee fixed it. Cool

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by dorktainian on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:09 pm

heres a good one.

i was musing about the beginning earlier and the kid. what if...when the reapers attacked shepard was concussed and staggered down to the harbour, boarded a shuttle, which was then blown out of the sky? (where we see him take his 'breath')

Star kid might be a representation of shepard being stuck on earth while the galaxy burns?

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:21 pm

dork wrote:heres a good one.

i was musing about the beginning earlier and the kid. what if...when the reapers attacked shepard was concussed and staggered down to the harbour, boarded a shuttle, which was then blown out of the sky? (where we see him take his 'breath')

Star kid might be a representation of shepard being stuck on earth while the galaxy burns?
That is original and good.

The problem I have with that is just that it makes the rest of the game... Fake. I like to think that the game is sort of like Shepard trapped from Earth while it burns. Or Anderson is trapped on Earth while the galaxy burns.


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Re: The Child and IT

Post by dorktainian on Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:28 pm

401 Kill wrote:
dork wrote:heres a good one.

i was musing about the beginning earlier and the kid. what if...when the reapers attacked shepard was concussed and staggered down to the harbour, boarded a shuttle, which was then blown out of the sky? (where we see him take his 'breath')

Star kid might be a representation of shepard being stuck on earth while the galaxy burns?
That is original and good.

The problem I have with that is just that it makes the rest of the game... Fake. I like to think that the game is sort of like Shepard trapped from Earth while it burns. Or Anderson is trapped on Earth while the galaxy burns.

peeps on the IT thread speculating it could be Object Rho or similar where shep wakes up - and i can fully understand that....because in a way it does. But then i started thinking about star brat. He says 'you cant help me'. and who can't shepard help if he's knocked out? himself. (or herself). The kid is deffo the key to everything.

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by Guest on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:37 am

I don't think Shepard is knocked out. I think the events of the game happened, even if details of it are illusory.

But, I also think the kid doesn't exist, period.

Holding ship = I control Normandy, your perceptions, and your technology.

You can't help me. = You cannot help those you wish to.

Getting on shuttle = I see you Shepard (look at his expression once on it!)

Shuttle blows up = Now for a demonstration, remember this as you fight against us.

TLDR Harbinger is the best villain ever now. EVER.

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:50 pm

401 Kill wrote:Please ignore my misusing the word "full". It should be "fool", I can't edit that from my iPod...

Just kidding. Banshee fixed it. Cool
Wow I just found this. Clever... Very clever...

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:56 pm

SwobyJ wrote:I don't think Shepard is knocked out. I think the events of the game happened, even if details of it are illusory.

But, I also think the kid doesn't exist, period.

Holding ship = I control Normandy, your perceptions, and your technology.

You can't help me. = You cannot help those you wish to.

Getting on shuttle = I see you Shepard (look at his expression once on it!)

Shuttle blows up = Now for a demonstration, remember this as you fight against us.

TLDR Harbinger is the best villain ever now. EVER.
Exactly. That child is a Reaper construct (from both the beginning of the game, and end of the game.) most likely constructed by Harbinger. That is a great summary of how the events of the child's activities on Earth represent Reaper influence upon Shepard.

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by stargate1990 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:57 am

my only issue with the kid never being real is this: the missing people/memorial wall on the citadel, there is a picture of the child but that dosen't mean the kid is real throught the whole starting level
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Re: The Child and IT

Post by invetro on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:42 am

That damn kid. To think I felt sorry for him when I played the demo.

The memorial wall has him placed in a very open place as well, with "last seen on Earth" on the picture.

If that is a fourth wall breaking statement, what is last seen on Earth? Shepards last mental barrier to indoctrination? :*tinfoil*:

I have scoured and scoured other memorial walls in the game, and I've never found that picture anywhere else but on the Citadel.

Has anyone flycammed the part where the kid runs into the locked building? Like up close and into the building before the reaper zaps it? Is that even possible?

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by Dwailing on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:44 am

I'm pretty certain that the kid is in some way illusory from the beginning. It's possible that at the very beginning of the game the kid is real, but that he was killed. Given the massive blast mark on the top of the building the kid was seen on, this is the minimum that I'm willing to accept. However, it's quite possible, perhaps even more so, that the kid never existed in the first place. Only Shepard ever sees him; this is six months from Arrival, when Shepard spent nearly two days unconscious next to a Reaper artifact; and it would explain how the Reapers know to use the kid to manipulate Shepard in the first place, since they're the ones that created him!

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by Andromidius on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:12 am

The kid is a hallucination. Straight up.

As are, I suspect, all those 2D sprites running towards the Reapers in a never ending line that you see below. Though that's less certain, and more a hunch.

The kid though? 100% not real. Nothing about him adds up.

1/ Is playing with a model of an Alliance fighter, which looks as if its real until the camera pans out. And his laughter echos in the typical creepy dead-child style that so many movies use.

2/ Unattended in an unsecure location on top of a building with no guard rails or walls, and no visible means to get up onto it.

3/ Building its on is right next to Alliance headquarters on Earth.

4/ Kid can be seen directly from Shepard's room window.

5/ Building can be seen shortly after. No garden, no sign its been damaged.

6/ Kid shows up again half a mile away, only 5-10 minutes later. Would be quite the run even without having to descend and then ascend the next building.

7/ Kid is inside a military building. Infact, not even inside - on a balcony connected to a military building. Which is connected via a locked door.

8/ Kid runs inside the building as soon as Shepard is in a good position to see him, and is hard to spot at a glance beforehand due to hiding behind a guardrail. Which, as we remember, wasn't on the last building he was left unattended on.

9/ Kid runs through a locked door, which remains locked after it closes again.

10/ Reaper blows the building up very shortly afterwards, almost on cue. Infact, its very strange for a Reaper to even shoot at the building, unless it was aiming at the kid. And not the two armed soldiers who are killing Husks just a few degrees to the left and are completely unobscured.

11/ Kid hides inside an air duct, and is utterly silent right up until Anderson moves into the next room through a damaged door. Which is when he suddenly makes a racket as he shuffles around inside, which Anderson doesn't hear.

12/ Kid refuses to come with Shepard, despite Shepard being an extremely famous person who is considered a hero of the Alliance.

13/ Kid says 'you can't help me'. To Commander fucking Shepard.

14/ Kid disappears the moment Shepard glances around when Anderson calls him. Reaper growl is heard in the distance, which we never heard before and never hear after (I believe). Kid makes zero sound.

15/ Kid reappears again just as Shepard is leaving, just in time to get on a shuttle. No-one seems to see the kid, let alone help him up - despite helping up other people onto the shuttle.

16/ Kid looks directly up at Shepard, and instantly makes eye contact.

17/ Kid's screams can be heard as the shuttle explodes. Despite not hearing anyone else, and it being louder then the explosion itself. And can be heard from hundreds of feet away, over the roar of the Normandy's engines.

Speaking of which, why does the Normandy hang around there for so long with its hanger bay doors open?

18/ Kid's picture shows up on the memorial wall on the Citadel. It doesn't look like a normal photo - its a mug shot, as if taken for police records or a mortician's report.

19/ Kid shows up in THREE dreams, each time fleeing from Shepard and then burning in front of him.

20/ The exact likeness of the child shows up at the end as an ethereal hologram, claiming to be the commander of the Reapers.

SEEMS LEGIT!
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Re: The Child and IT

Post by BleedingUranium on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:15 am

401 Kill wrote:
401 Kill wrote:Please ignore my misusing the word "full". It should be "fool", I can't edit that from my iPod...

Just kidding. Banshee fixed it. Cool
Wow I just found this. Clever... Very clever...

lol!

Also, I'd like to add that it's likely, given Shepard's been there for six months, that he started seeing the kid playing out there a long time ago.
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Re: The Child and IT

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:17 am

@ Andro: +1

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:26 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:@ Andro: +1
Chalk me up with that one as well.

Bioware even confirmed that the Catalyst was built from Shepard's memories so even in literal the leader of the Reapers is inside of Shepard's mind...

And literalists say that Shepard can't be indoctrinated...

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by Andromidius on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:38 am

We're not calling them Literalists anymore. They are Reductionists.
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Re: The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:18 am

Andromidius wrote:We're not calling them Literalists anymore. They are Reductionists.
I don't follow...

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by CSSteele on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:21 am

Reductionists reduce arguments to the easiest and most simplified elements in all aspects so that they can be far more easily refuted. They refuse to look at the items all together as a whole in order to 'discuss/argue' the idea as presented.
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Re: The Child and IT

Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:30 am

Hah, very fitting.

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by 401 Kill on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:43 am

CSSteele wrote:Reductionists reduce arguments to the easiest and most simplified elements in all aspects so that they can be far more easily refuted. They refuse to look at the items all together as a whole in order to 'discuss/argue' the idea as presented.
Ooooh! That is good! It sounds just like what they do, reducing the ending to the arguement of "Bad Writing" which is an opinion.

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Re: The Child and IT

Post by Andromidius on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:18 am

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reductionist?s=t

1.
the theory that every complex phenomenon, especially in biology or psychology, can be explained by analyzing the simplest, most basic physical mechanisms that are in operation during the phenomenon.
2.
the practice of simplifying a complex idea, issue, condition, or the like, especially to the point of minimizing, obscuring, or distorting it.
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Re: The Child and IT

Post by CSSteele on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:16 am

Andromidius said it better, but there ya go.
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