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Post by Guest on Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:46 pm

Yay, I'm not actually steamrolling over enemies on Nightmare. Even just clearing the Apostate and Templar camps felt almost like mini-dungeons and not just Kill X MMO quests.

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Post by ZerebusPrime on Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:39 am

Hmm...

http://kotaku.com/dragon-age-inquisitions-ending-explained-1671137779

Spoiler:
Seven Old Gods.  Nine Elven Gods, minus the two who were still active.  And Solas really doesn't like Wardens or the idea of killing the Old Gods.  Hmmmm. It makes me wonder if the Old Gods are dragon aspects of the sleeping Elven Gods.
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Post by Guest on Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:57 am

Spoiler:
I think you're right. That would make 4 gods dead, 1 god either dead or um.. put into that eluvian by Flemeth, and 2 gods alive, and one god Mythal and one god Fen'Harel and they may have merged to some extent. Flemeth may have another aspect out there if spared by the Warden? And the elven gods may have some part of themselves in/beyond the Fade?

So far looks like Fen'Harel wants to being the Fade and Thedas together and return the elven gods, for better or worse. And maybe more than that. A crude Breach is not likely (at least not as some major event), but instead something more elaborate and not involving massive amounts of blood magic and/or red lyrium.

Solas can be understood as solace, but it can also be understood as soulless. A stretch, but the elven gods may by locked behind mirrors, soulless, as their souls found their way or were placed into dragons.

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Post by Guest on Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:54 am

Oh.

Spoiler:

Holy shit. "The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment, and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap."
Is that a foreshadowing of Here Lies The Abyss? Was leaving Hawke there the *right* choice?

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Post by ZerebusPrime on Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:53 pm

Spoiler:
Solas is elvhen for "Pride". Hence mission titles like "What Pride hath wrought."
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:30 pm

Spoiler:
Well, both the Old Gods and the Forgotten Ones are said to have been sealed in prisons deep underground.
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Post by Guest on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:37 pm

ZerebusPrime wrote:
Spoiler:
Solas is elvhen for "Pride".  Hence mission titles like "What Pride hath wrought."

Yeah, I'm aware of that. That's actually my point. That the main quest names can mean something that ties into story that isn't directly related at the time (most players would not know 'What Pride Hath Wrought' at the time of playing, but can look back and understand why it was called that).

Spoiler:
That if a main quest references an Abyss, and Hawke is told not to hesitate to jump at the Abyss, then the writers are leaving the cue for perhaps Hawke to take a leap of faith at the Abyss, and we may still see the consequences of that. The choice itself goes (I think) "Hawke will likely die.", and even though it does the same wording for Stroud, Loghain and Alistair, this could be just a way of hiding the fact that Bioware intends on using Hawke's story again later on, and that he's not done with a 'likely' death at the Abyss.
This doesn't mean Flemeth knows anything special btw, but simply that the writers may have considered leaving a cue for the player to remember if they played DA2.

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Post by Guest on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:47 pm

Hanako Ikezawa wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, both the Old Gods and the Forgotten Ones are said to have been sealed in prisons deep underground.

Don't see how that's a spoiler.

The Old Gods lie in or under the Deep Roads. The Forgotten Ones were cast 'down' in the 'realm of the abyss'.

If Bioware is calling the farthest realms of the Fade 'The Abyss', then you can see where I'm getting at.

It appears that the Fade, or simply the Beyond realms past Thedas, may have an Abyss, a Heaven, and maybe more. This would make sense, if the Veil is only a magical perception filter when it comes down to it, as the Codex hints. What we understand as just the yellowish dream world of DAO/DA2's Fade, is actually just one realm of several (or more) that make of the Beyond, even if there's also a sort of geographical connection as well. One of these realms being 'The Abyss', or 'The Void'.

Though part of me wants the Forgotten Ones to instead be super deep underground, part of the whole red lyrium stuff. But I'm more inclined to think that they may be Titan like figures (like the Sun that are from even before the Elven stuff we're dealing with. The Dwarves cut themselves off from them and intentionally forget them, etc.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Elgar%27nan:_God_of_Vengeance
This also mentions an abyss (*shrug*?) but it sounds like a more specific abyss in that it is deep under ground/ocean in Thedas.

EDIT: And yes I guess the Forgotten Ones and the 'titans' may be one and the same. Things are still vague. My main point is that while the Old God dragons are underground, the Forgotten Ones and whatever else, could instead be in a more metaphorical/magical 'abyss' than a more literal one in Thedas.

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Post by Guest on Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:05 pm

Seems others think along the same lines

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/527815-fate-of-hawke-if-left-in-the-fade-speculation/?p=18132465
Spoiler:

I left Hawke, and I honestly think that's the "correct" choice. 
 
I have a pretty crazy theory about why this is so. 
 
See, after I finished the game, and got the endgame cutscene, I got really curious about the time Flemeth appeared in Dragon Age II. So I hunted down a video of her. 
 
The really important part comes at 3:43
 
"Destiny awaits us both, dear boy. We have much to do. Before I go, a word of advice? We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the Abyss. Watch for that moment, and when it comes... do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly."
 
The name of this whole quest in Inquisition? Here Lies the Abyss. Hmm, I think the writers are trying to tell me something.... 
 
So Flemeth is giving Hawke a prophecy not for anything which happens in DAII - she's telling Hawke that when s/he's in the Abyss, s/he should leap and risk falling. 
 
What I would *really* like to do is get a bunch of people together who have played Aggresive Hawke, Diplomatic Hawke, etc, and compare their animations if they are left in the Fade. Because, after all, Flemeth only said "whether" you can fly, and I'd love to see if there's a difference in a Hawke who could survive the Fade versus one who gave into fear and died.

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Post by Rifneno on Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:00 am


_________________
The Dragon Age Thread - Page 29 Hatreds_zps16b974a8Remember folks.  We didn't get A, B, C endings.  We got A, A, A endings.
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Post by ZerebusPrime on Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:02 am

Is that a mineral or a dessert?  I can't tell if that's dirt or a brownie.  Hm.   Maybe a dirt brownie.

Mmmm... dirt brownie...     ...except this one tastes like concentrated evil.

And worms.


EDIT:  Get a load of this: http://forum.bioware.com/topic/536142-you-magnificent-bastards-ending-spoilers/

2ND EDIT: Crocoite is common to lead mines, as it is itself a lead chromate. So there are mines out there IRL with red crystal growths.
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Post by ZerebusPrime on Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:20 pm

I just had an odd thought.

Iron Bull admits he went to the reeducators.  He further describes in some detail how the reeducators have ways of editing your memories by adding footnotes and sometimes whole new pages in the book that is one's mind.  And so I got to thinking about how he keeps going back to a memory of a Tal'Vashoth who killed women and children.  It sticks out like a sore thumb, doesn't it?  He has trouble reconciling it with "good" Tal'Vashoth he's dealt with.

I'm starting to think the reeducators gave Iron Bull that traumatic memory in an attempt to remotivate him after he gave up fighting in Seheron.

An added page to the book of his mind.  Indexed under "creepy".

And if Bull is wrong about the Tal'Vashoth of Seheron, one has to wonder about Sten's story of the Fiends of Seheron from DA:O, too.  Really, would it be so shocking to find out that the re/educators keep their troops focused by editing in memories that paint their enemies in an especially unflattering light?
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Post by CSSteele on Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:06 am

Might need to be a new thread, but... some ideas. Also, the edit is me testing the spoiler tag.
Spoiler:
Okay, so with the reveal about Solas and Flemeth, his comments about the Veil and spirits, his conversations with Cole and the options you can have with Cole when it comes to his side-quest, I'd like to get some discussion going on the Fade, the Black City, the gods and races.

I was reading on the Bioware forums - yeah, I know, but DA ones, obviously not the ME ones - and there are some good ideas being tossed around. I'd rather discuss them here though. Anyway, First, we'll list what we already know. Solas is The Dread Wolf, Flemeth is Mythal. The elven legends state that Fen'Harel locked away the 'evil' gods and the 'creation' gods in the Abyss and the Heavens, because he was a trickster and wanted to keep them from interfering. We're also told through translations that Fen'Harel's name actually stems back to the God of Rebellion, or 'rebel', not so much what we were originally led to believe, due to the incorrectness of the Dalish teachings. The elves also reveal to us that the fall of Arlathan was occurring and almost inevitable by the time the humans of the Tevinter Imperium made their march on the city. Solas also tells us that the tattoos the Dalish wear indicate slave status.

So, my theories. Fen'Harel was cunning and powerful, which is a given. I believe that he lead a slave revolt against some of the other Elven gods, specifically leaning towards Elgar'nan here, as he wasn't known to be nice, though I'm sure the others were targets too. Mythal was a goddess of Justice and sided with Fen'Harel. The ending scene where Flemeth and Solas talk, they are obviously friendly and quite familiar/close. Also, his statue was in her temple AND both the dragon and wolf flanking the Eluvian show they are together.
There is a codex entry that states a 'lesser' figured out how to shape into a dragon, something that was to be reserved for the highest of elves, they were taken to Mythal to be judged and she passed, referring them to Elgar'nan for judgement instead, possibly because she couldn't give unbiased judgement. Couple that tidbit with Solas' extreme dislike of the Grey Wardens and their methods, especially the targeting of Archdemons to slay, and I posit that the 7 sleeping dragons are the elven gods, buried underground in their dragon forms. Solas doesn't want them to die and never intended for where the world has ended up. In one of the conversations you can have with him, Solas asks you what you will do with your power once you've defeated Corypheus, and if you tell him 'make the world a better place' he gets bitter, very bitter and angry, and retorts with 'and what if the world you think you've made is worse off than it was before? Then what?' , to which my inquisitor responded with 'We'll just take a step back, figure out where we messed up and start again'. He softens and appreciates the answer, telling you that you impress him and give him hope for the future.

Some of his dialogue leads us to believe that the veil wasn't always present, that spirits and flesh used to live side-by side, co-existing without trouble, that the 'Fade' wasn't hidden and unreachable, he also has us power up ancient relics that are supposed to 'strengthen the fade' in areas where it is weak. I'm getting off track and babbling, sorry.

1.) Solas put the other elven gods to sleep after Mythal was murdered. 9 elven gods, minus 2 gives us the 7 sleeping dragons of the Tevinter Imperium. They were split into physical on one side and spiritual on the other side of the Fade, fragmenting them, trapping them away from their bodies. Seeing as they're sleeping, the only way to get back into their bodies would be to cross the veil, and how else could they do this without finding people of sufficient magical power to try and pierce it and free them? Only, it clearly didn't go as planned. The magisters found the spirits they were searching for, but humans weren't meant to be able to walk in the Fade and in doing so came across the pure, red lyrium (see point 3 about blue vs red) in the Fade and the rest of that part is history, so to speak. They came back and began spreading their corruption and the blights occurred, the compulsion and desire to free the slumbering gods present in their minds still.. they come to their call, only to curse them instead of freeing them as they'd hoped. I propose due to the veil still being in place.

2.) Elves, I believe, were far more similar to spirits than physical, much like Cole, until the creation of the Veil, at that point any new elf born into the world had a touch of magic, but were no longer immortal due to the separation of a deeper spiritual connection. They blame humans for their 'quickening' but it was their being trapped on a single side of the veil that caused it. (There's also some points in the lore somewhere that human-elf off-spring ALWAYS come out as human, and humans can touch the Fade, giving an odd and un-explainable link between ancient elves and humans way back when the veil was created).

3.) Lyrium. Bianca tells us that red lyrium is blighted, like the darkspawn. There are other codex entries that state that some believe blue lyrium to be alive, which is supported by her discovery, since the blight itself only affects living matter. In DAO and DA2, when we visit the Fade realms in the dream state, we only find blue lyrium. However, in DA:I when we are physically in the Fade there are red lyrium deposits spread around, and I don't recall seeing -any- blue lyrium at all. Not sure where this bit is going, but I find it something that needs to be discussed, as it also links to Dwarves and Tranquil being able to use/touch/manipulate raw blue lyrium and they're the only ones capable of doing so safely. I find it telling as well that they are also completely unable to touch the Fade. However, Dagna has a scene where if you get her a fragment from the Fade when you go to the Nightmare realm, she states that she was studying a rune (made of lyrium) when suddenly she felt as tall as a mountain, but that she was moving and the thoughts of the Dwarves, all of them, were her 'Thought' singular. I believe this is tied directly into the living lyrium, that when the veil was created, it also somehow split them from their connection to the Stone.

4.) One of the codex entries refers to the 'soulless toilers' in the 'pillars of the earth'. The codex entries I refer to here are found in the Temple of Mythal, you have to carry the veil-fire torch through the sections where the Elven protector leads you AND drink from the well in order to read them. There have been some speculations to it on the BSN, but none have mentioned what comes to mind for me. The 'soulless' are the Dwarves. Why? They cannot touch the Fade and aren't connected to the spiritual network of the world the same way the elves were/are. Not that I think the dwarves are without souls, but they would feel different to the elves, as if my supposition is correct, all ancient elves were mostly spirits anyway, like Cole. Perhaps, even that some of the spirits began to make themselves more 'real' and the resulting offspring of Elf and Dwarf were humans, which then snowballed into what we have today. Also, High Dragons are connected to the Qunari too, as some of Iron Bull's dialogue mentions feeling something when you fight dragons with him, not sure what to make of that with the breeding line of thought, just something to think about.

I know this doesn't explain or encapsulate everything I want it to, because there's some questions/ideas I have about the Primordial Thiag, Red Lyrium, dwarven mages and more, but that's enough babble for now.
TL:DR, read it, I can't sum it up anymore than I have. :P


Last edited by CSSteele on Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Testing the spoiler tag)
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Post by CSSteele on Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:08 am

Spoiler:
Quick addition. I believe Inquisition's plot is entirely due to Felassan refusing to get the passcode for the Eluvians from Briala at the end of 'Masked Empire'. I personally believe that the entity he converses with before being killed is Fen'Harel.

And to further explain myself, The orb. Solas tells Flemeth that he wasn't powerful enough when he awoke to use the orb, and that's why Corypheus had it. I think he originally tried to correct his mistake by trying to gain access to the Eluvian network through Felassan. Felassan had extreme knowledge of the Fade and specifically of Fen'Harel, far more than any other Dalish elf ever has, and knew much of the ancient history of the elves.


Last edited by CSSteele on Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Expounded a bit on my initial proclamation.)
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Post by ZerebusPrime on Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:11 pm

Well summarized, CSSteele. Those of us who were already following the BSN are more or less on the same page as far as being aware of all that.

One thing that throws a wrench into the idea that the old world had no veil separating it from the Fade: in the nightmarish future we see by siding with the mages, the veil has been completely sundered. A sentry report in Redcliffe Castle summarizes the consequences: those living outside fortified walls are probably all dead because of hordes of wild demons roaming everywhere.

I would posit, then, that the Fade of olden yore had far fewer demons in it for it to function smoothly in conjunction with the material plane. Something happened to necessitate putting the veil in place. That something may or may not be related to the population of demons in the present and/or the corruption of the Golden City.
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Post by CSSteele on Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:10 am

Per Solas, demons are just spirits who have been twisted from their original purpose. In the mage-siding future we saw, the breach was still open and demons were coming through rifts, I don't recall anyone saying that the veil was completely gone. Solas also says that crossing over, and how they cross into the real world that they cannot understand causes some of the twisting.
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Post by ZerebusPrime on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:27 am

I took Solas along for that mission in my last playthrough. He distinctly said that the veil was gone at that point, IIRC. The rifts would be tears leading directly to deeper parts of the Fade with lots of bad implications therein.
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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:55 am

I just crashed after completing the Alexius fight on Nightmare. Not happy.

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Post by ZerebusPrime on Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:31 pm

I'm just going to drop a couple of things here.  
They're pulled from the Solas MEGA THREAD on BSN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1lCFIJuv2c  That's neither here nor there.

The Dragon Age Thread - Page 29 Tumblr_inline_nhgvk6Ee9m1s8akl7
There's a working theory that Sera is actually Andruil or an aspect thereof.  I... don't fully follow. Apparently Andruil is crazy and shoots things with arrows.
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Post by Guest on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:30 pm

I was just about to post about that ZP!

I like it, I approve of this theory. Which might make others automatically disbelieve it :P.

http://shispan.tumblr.com/post/106752987253/spoilers-sera-is-a-vessel-speculation-more

She'd be akin to Flemeth's deal, but much smaller, practically only a wisp instead of a larger spirit.

But it might have been enough to somehow compel her to go after the Inquisitor.




Also, another theory for the heck of it:


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Post by ZerebusPrime on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:39 pm

And there's also the idea that Solas might also be Shartan. They do look alike.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/12/a-wild-theory-about-dragon-ages-most-surprising-character/
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Post by Guest on Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:54 pm

'In Your Heart Shall Burn', on Nightmare, at Lv 9 (though Inquisitor turned Lv 10, making enemies even stronger...) was hellish. Not at first, but once I had to approach the last catapult..

Eventually, it became impossible for me to progress, at least without the most paranoid of gameplay. I looked up a way to cheese the fight, and it existed! Turn the wheel until a large group of (in my case) Templars arrive, then run literally off into the hills, to the point that they bug out and stay in place. I still had to fight the boss, which was tough but at least more fun, while a dozen enemies were stuck in the hills :P

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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:14 am

SwobyJ wrote:'In Your Heart Shall Burn', on Nightmare, at Lv 9 (though Inquisitor turned Lv 10, making enemies even stronger...) was hellish. Not at first, but once I had to approach the last catapult..

Eventually, it became impossible for me to progress, at least without the most paranoid of gameplay. I looked up a way to cheese the fight, and it existed! Turn the wheel until a large group of (in my case) Templars arrive, then run literally off into the hills, to the point that they bug out and stay in place. I still had to fight the boss, which was tough but at least more fun, while a dozen enemies were stuck in the hills :P
I brought two tanks and a mage to cast barriers then had then distract the reinforcements while I kept turning the wheel myself.
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Post by Eryri on Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:17 am

I'm Still on my first play through, as I'm one of those anal types who have to collect every last thing from a region before moving on to the next.
Looking back, I feel very silly for thinking mages without healing would be nerfed. The Knight Enchanter specialisation is just ridiculously (but enjoyably) powerful. My supposedly squishy Mage is a actually a tank, able to take on dragons, more or less solo, on hard. And I'm not even very good. I just get in underneath and hack away with spirit blade until they keel over. I did turn it up to nightmare for a while but having the other 3 members of the party look so battered and bruised all the time got a bit sad.
I do enjoy the party banter though. I laughed out loud at a conversation between Iron Bull and Varric where they took the piss out of DA2's waves of bandits materialising out of the sky.

I do hate those awful jump puzzles to get shards / chests though. This game is just not built for platforming.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:30 am

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