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Post by BleedingUranium on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:17 pm

K-On!, not KS, but my order just got in this morning! w00t Still waiting on the Season 1 DVD which is on its way, and the College manga which will be released Tuesday Joyful 

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Post by Byne on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:06 am

Mugi, dont eat Yui! Gasp 

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Post by Norlond on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:14 pm

Ritsu Route, haven't read it yet, just thought I should post it here http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=8577

And Suzu
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Also I rewatched Black★Rock Shooter one or two weeks ago; it's nice short anime, if you're interested (8 episodes)
A little confusing at the start, but it starts to make more sense when you watch all of it, except maybe one or two things I couldn't quite figure out yet Tongue
Some feels included, mostly at the end, but not as strong as K-On or a certain other anime... *sigh* Sad


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Post by BleedingUranium on Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:31 pm

Thanks Nor, saved for later :)

This seems relevant to our interests:

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Post by BleedingUranium on Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:30 am

^ That's all one picture, I hope you guys get what it's implying. I'll give you a hint: In the game files, while this ending is called "goodend", Rin's neutral ending is called "trueend".
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Post by Byne on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:32 am

From the two visual novels I've played, the true ends are usually just less happy endings, not a reflection on what is the actual canon ending.

Never liked the "Rin's good end is just a dream" theory either.

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Post by BleedingUranium on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:58 am

Well, Rin's is the only one with the "trueend" label.
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Post by Byne on Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:11 am

BleedingUranium wrote:Well, Rin's is the only one with the "trueend" label.

I may be making this up but I'm fairly sure I recall the author of Rin's route actually saying the trueend label is not a reflection on how canon it is.

Plus that ending is just way too fucking sad to be the canon one for Rin. Crying 

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Post by BleedingUranium on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:44 am

Reposting what I posted on a KS Facebook page, because I'm quite proud of it:

*Image and caption is about how that admin feels a lot like Misha, unrequited love of a best friend and such, and how the route should have been Misha's route*

Me: It *is* Misha's in a sense. And it's Hisao's, in that Shizune is the one doing the helping, rather than the other way around. I know Hisao and the girl in each route help each other, but it's much more like this in Shizune's.

It's because at the end, Hisao is exactly where Shizune was at the beginning: wanting to come back and teach there and hoping he could meet someone that's like he was when he first got there, passing the torch, as Shizune passed it to him.

https://i.imgur.com/gxDcEqw.png

Hisao's internal monologue as the sky is seen in the background later in this scene also shows what I'm talking about.

The route is about learning to help others, with Shizune leading by example.

----

While all the girls and routes get their fair share of jokes and such (Shizune being a bitch, Emi lemons, Hanako bacon, etc), I think the reason Shizune gets the actual complaints the most is because she's the least relatable to most people.

I don't mean she's the least relatable (I consider her to be the closest fictional character to me I've ever seen), but I mean the majority of people find (especially) Hanako, Rin, or Misha more relatable, because most people consider themselves (whether they should or not) to be shy, misunderstood, or rejected. I think it's because most people have an inherently negative view about themselves.

The point I'm trying to make with this is that people are more likely to understand people/characters that are more like themselves, which is why I think Shizune is the least understood girl and route.


Person: That was beautifully said. I happen to agree, since I myself have always (until the last couple of years) had low self esteem. Its rare to fight a person who has the same sort of inherent confidence and strength that Shizune does, so I can understand why one would think that she is unrelatable. You were quite right, she was the one who helped Hisao heal and he was inspired to be like her because of that. She is one of those rare (usually fictional) beings that shares their confidence with the world around them in the hopes they too will rise up and become better.

Me: She's just as misunderstood, if not more so, in-universe. And it shows:

Hisao says "thanks": https://i.imgur.com/mXBFI8M.jpg

Her family: https://i.imgur.com/qUXeNGA.png
https://i.imgur.com/qGuoTIv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HQ2cxnQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XSfjd3c.png

Something people often forget, she wants to make people happy, but doesn't care, or rather, doesn't expect that she'll be thanked for what she does: https://i.imgur.com/Dgcid7J.png
https://i.imgur.com/W0esJwI.png

----

And while this whole scene is one of the best in her route, this part is one of the best parts of it (pictures are easier than writing that whole thing out):

https://i.imgur.com/8WFsO1d.png
https://i.imgur.com/I12kbS4.png
https://i.imgur.com/Tvhtf7s.png
https://i.imgur.com/NwhX12a.png
https://i.imgur.com/wrx0N7m.png
https://i.imgur.com/RMifCTr.png
https://i.imgur.com/2Bjm6oJ.png
https://i.imgur.com/U8GsStK.png
https://i.imgur.com/18Lchmq.png

Sorry for hijacking your post Uncertain I think the vast majority of people consider themselves to have low self esteem or confidence, but very rarely do they have good reason to be. We're all pessimists about ourselves, and the best way to overcome that, I think, is to realize that we are the only people holding ourselves back.


----

*They then made a separate, main post on this subject*

Person: A good point was brought up about Shizune and about one of the reasons she isn't a well liked character and that's because she isn't a easy character to relate too. And its true, in a way she represents something's lot of us don't really see often, be it in life or in ourselves and that is a focus on the good, a focus on strength and healing over what is wrong and about why we shouldn't see the good in ourselves.
She is a character that doesn't care about why she shouldn't communicate, about why she should give up. Instead she focuses on getting what she wants in a way that she can. She is a character who won't take shit from the world and in a way that is why so many people don't like her. People see her as arrogant and bossy, trying to take control over something we ourselves don't have or don't think we have. That's over our own lives.
What I am trying to say is that she is a testament of what it means to overcome adversity. Something that most of the other character don't really do except for Emi, who is different in the way that she isn't try to prove her self but rather run away from her problems.
Shizune is the girl who takes a different approach to the situations that are seen in KS, she is the one that helps Hisao instead of him helping the other girls. She is the healer, she is the one who sees the harm and hates it, she is the one who sees the weakness in pity and self deification and seeks to overcome it and replace it with inner strength and winning on a person's unique strengths and will power.
Its hard to relate to her because in a way she is more of a ideal than a relatable character, she is something more than just a personable archetype, rather she is a ideal archetype. Something that we don't see in every day literature or situations, and certainly something we don't see in ourselves very often either.

Me: You worded that much better than I did Joyful Actually, I hadn't thought of the "trying to take control over something we ourselves don't have or don't think we have. That's over our own lives." bit, that's very true.

Shizune isn't the friend who listens to your problems and says she feels for you (what people want), she's the one who says "Well, go do something about it!" (what people need).
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Post by Byne on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:18 am

Good post blur. Its good seeing other perspectives on Shizune.

I think "Its hard to relate to her because in a way she is more of a ideal than a relatable character, she is something more than just a personable archetype, rather she is a ideal archetype." kind of sums up part of my problem with her though. She's less of a character and more of an idea of what the author seems to think would be a good ideal to push towards. She seems unrealistic. Like I wouldnt be surprised at all if it was revealed she never actually existed and was just a personification of some of Hisao's better qualities created in his mind to help him cope with going to Yamaku.

Her path is also so full of pointless moments and wasted potential that it makes me sad.

(I hope what I said made sense because its 3am so theres a high likelihood I'm spouting crazy gibberish and simply dont realize it...)

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Post by BleedingUranium on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:45 pm

Shizune is a sort of ideal, yes, but so is Emi, and Lilly takes the cake for that one. Those three, while they have their own issues, are the ideals you push towards.

Misha, Rin, and Hanako represent (I'm not sure I like the way I'm phrasing this) things about yourself you have to overcome.

Maybe it's better to put it simpler (though it's not as black and white as this): Lilly, Shizune, and Emi help Hisao; Hisao helps Hanako, Misha, and Rin.

You could make that "Hisao made them up" argument about all of them; three to represent what he want to be, three to represent what he wants to overcome.

I see what you mean by that, but that's the whole point of the route. Here:

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That's Shizune's way of thinking (and mine, which likely contributes to me loving slice-of-life stories), but it's also her route as well. Her route intentionally mirrors the girl herself.

Not that I can't find complaints with the route, mind you. Jigoro was way, way too over the top, and completely ruined the douchebag dad he was supposed to be because he just ended up so ridiculous and unbelievable that he was funny. If Jigoro was how he should have been, way more people would have understood what I said about her family up there. Hideaki is exactly how he needed to be, he just got too much screen time.
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Post by Byne on Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:48 pm

I think the whole "compartmentalizing of life" thing and not caring about long term consequences of actions thing is another reason I dont really like Shizune much. I guess I get why other people would, but her personality as a whole doesnt really appeal to me either, so she had too much against her for me to like her much.

BleedingUranium wrote:You could make that "Hisao made them up" argument about all of them; three to represent what he want to be, three to represent what he wants to overcome.
Reminds me of this picture. I should start "Was Yamaku a Hallucination? Katawa Theory Mark I!"

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Post by BleedingUranium on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:51 am

A fair point. Like I said somewhere up above, we tend to like the characters we can relate to best the most, so that's why I'm not really fond of Rin, or Lilly. Nothing wrong with that Joyful

lol the problem with that, in this case, is that would mean he created these ideals without a cause to do so, as he never spent the time awake in hospital or went to the school.
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Post by Byne on Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:09 am

Gotta say I dont like the change they made to Red Velvet in KS 1.1. Its one of my favorite songs and it just sounds wrong now.

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Post by BleedingUranium on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:50 pm

There's a KS update???
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Post by Byne on Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:27 pm

BleedingUranium wrote:There's a KS update???
Nothing really changed or added in it though.

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Post by BleedingUranium on Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:43 am

Byne wrote:
BleedingUranium wrote:There's a KS update???
Nothing really changed or added in it though.
Is there a way to update it, but change Red Velvet back to the original?
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Post by Byne on Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:58 am

BleedingUranium wrote:
Byne wrote:
BleedingUranium wrote:There's a KS update???
Nothing really changed or added in it though.
Is there a way to update it, but change Red Velvet back to the original?
No clue. It'd be nice if you could though. Red Velvet being different makes me sad.

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Post by BleedingUranium on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:08 pm

Very important info about updating to 1.1! If you update without doing the following, you will lose ALL of your progression!

To stop the update from overwriting your progression, go to this location:

C/Users/(your user)/AppData/Roaming/RenPy/katawashoujo_actual

Move the only file there, called "persistent", anywhere else on your computer.

Install 1.1.

Move the file back, this time into "katawashoujo_actual_1.1" instead (you can delete "katawashoujo_actual").


If you move it back before starting up the game again, the spot will be empty, if you start it up first, there will be a new "persistent", so replace it with the old one.

This will save all your progression, everything that's unlocked in the "Extras" section. You cannot, however, keep any route saves you currently have (I had none), they aren't compatible with 1.1.
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Post by MaximizedAction on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:45 am

Finished Lilly's route.

Man, I'm a mess now...

...that wooden music box, that small wooden music box, man...Happy tears

Man, I'm a mess now.

________
Thanks Byne.  Sideways

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Post by Byne on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:56 am

MaximizedAction wrote:Finished Lilly's route.

Man, I'm a mess now...

...that wooden music box, that small wooden music box, man...Happy tears

Man, I'm a mess now.

________
Thanks Byne.  Sideways
Dat music box scene, man.

I didnt even like Lilly that much and I cried like a baby to that.

Glad you enjoyed Lilly's route! =D

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Post by BleedingUranium on Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:22 am

Byne wrote:
MaximizedAction wrote:Finished Lilly's route.

Man, I'm a mess now...

...that wooden music box, that small wooden music box, man...Happy tears

Man, I'm a mess now.

________
Thanks Byne.  Sideways
Dat music box scene, man.

I didnt even like Lilly that much and I cried like a baby to that.

Glad you enjoyed Lilly's route! =D
I second that; I love that scene!
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Post by MaximizedAction on Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:19 am

So...about that thing of Yamaku having never really happened.

But unlike ME3, it's not a requirement for the story to feel more relevant imo - except maybe for Hisao.
It's maybe as I've often read so far: The characters or the story were never real for you, but the emotions were. And same could be true for Hisao.

So if it mattered to us, it likely also mattered for Hisao, and maybe this experience did change him. In my good ending it seems that way. To use Blur's idea, the ideal that is Lilly will now accompany him in life.

Just my two cents. ^^

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Post by CaptainSlow on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:40 am

BleedingUranium wrote:
Byne wrote:
MaximizedAction wrote:Finished Lilly's route.

Man, I'm a mess now...

...that wooden music box, that small wooden music box, man...Happy tears

Man, I'm a mess now.

________
Thanks Byne.  Sideways
Dat music box scene, man.

I didnt even like Lilly that much and I cried like a baby to that.

Glad you enjoyed Lilly's route! =D
I second that; I love that scene!
And I third it. Even though Lilly's route wasn't THE route for me, the structure of it and especially the correct usage of that Chekhov's musicbox was just ingenious.

In a way, Lilly's writer succeeded where others didn't seem to... Tinfoil Hat 

Anyway, just my two stethoscopes... Katawa Shoujo Thread - Page 20 Iconnurse
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Post by CoolioThane on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:49 am

Screw the theory Rin's good ending is a dream. I refuse any notion of the sort.

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