Hidden messages in the dialogue? (The IT Cypher™)

DoomsdayDevice wrote:
I don't believe refuse is the right choice, for a number of reasons.

Me too. Mainly because refuse didn't actually ship with the original game.

That said, I still think the Puzzle Theory has a lot of merit. The picture is definitely becoming clearer with each and every DLC which has been released.

ElSuperGecko wrote:

DoomsdayDevice wrote:
I don't believe refuse is the right choice, for a number of reasons.

Me too. Mainly because refuse didn't actually ship with the original game.

That said, I still think the Puzzle Theory has a lot of merit. The picture is definitely becoming clearer with each and every DLC which has been released.

I think it is a combination of IT and puzzle. I think that refuse will be made to escape from indoctrination.

BleedingUranium wrote:I did the first conversation with James on the Citadel again yesterday, the one that seems to exist for nothing but foreshadowing. Normally I pick the paragon response, which is:

James: "They'd rather believe in this than face the truth."

Shepard: "I can hardly believe it myself, like everything back on Earth was some kind of nightmare."

That's great, but the renegade one is even better:

Shepard: "They're in for a rude awakening."

Great foreshadowing! Never heard that before. Consider this added!

I posted this in the main thread a while back but it got a bit lost.

There's some ending foreshadowing in the bomb mission on Tuchanka. When Shepard finds Lt. Tarquin Victus, there are two really important moments in the dialogue:

"We could see on holo that reaper forces were blocking our intended path - staying on course guaranteed heavy casualties. So I chose a safer route, skirting the enemy and that took us low and through these ruins. When we encountered resistance, there was no room to manoeuvre. Suddenly we were in a fight for our lives. A lot of my men lost that fight."

and

Victus: Our mission's still a failure. When we've stabilised the injured we'll head back to the fleet.
Shepard: You're abandoning your mission?
Victus: We're down over 30 men. It'd be suicide.
...reveal about the bomb...
Victus: Haven't my men sacrificed enough?
Shepard: I understand. This kind of sacrifice is the hardest to ask for, but your men signed on for it, and so did you.

The first I think is a reference to the idea that in ME3, Shepard can't save everyone no matter how hard he tries.

The second is major foreshadowing for the decision chamber. For destroy, the Catalyst heavily emphasises what Shepard will be sacrificing - EDI, the Geth and ultimately, him/herself. Arguably, backing out of this is the ultimate hypocricy for Shepard after what he says to Victus, and also to James when James reveals he wants to join N7 - "There's not a single N7 who hasn't sacrificed, either themselves or their men".

In fact, if I had one of the queen's lovely pounds for every time the word "sacrifice" is used in ME3, I could retire. And the only person richer would be the one who got a pound every time someone said "nightmare".

Thanks, Rankin.

These quotes have been found before though, and are listed in the 'Ultimate IT quotes' topic.

It's good to see different people are coming to the same conclusions though!

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Thanks, Rankin.

These quotes have been found before though, and are listed in the 'Ultimate IT quotes' topic.

It's good to see different people are coming to the same conclusions though!

Dang, thought I'd caught a new one. When you read through those quotes though, you realise it isn't so much foreshadowing as repeatedly whacking the player over the head with a 2-pound lump hammer made of solid hints.

Agreed!

Javik: "The Reapers have hunted the galaxy long enough. It is time to end this nightmare."

Drewton wrote:Javik: "The Reapers have hunted the galaxy long enough. It is time to end this nightmare."

Yes, I found this one too. I listed it in the section with mentions of nightmares in the Ultimate IT Quotes topic.

Thanks for mentioning it though! New stuff is still being found from time to time.

EDIT: Moved.

Doubt it's anything intentional, but:

Samantha Traynor: My parents were from London. [...] If they'd stayed in London, I imagine they'd be dead right now.

Shepard: A lot of people back on earth are still alive.

Hmm, not sure either.

".... London, I imagine they'd be dead..."

More references to people still being alive, also on Earth...

Interesting though.

I thought it was interesting, because London is specifically mentioned and this is early on in the game when London has never been talked about.

Makes me think of this other thing that Traynor says...

Traynor: It feels great to bring someone out alive.

I just found all these quotes that I wrote down, hadn't posted these yet.
I thought this was great foreshadowing for control and synthesis:

Private Westmoreland: What kind of soldier looks at a camp that turns people into husks and goes: "Yeah, I want to help with that."?
Private Campbell: The same kind that lets Cerberus stick Reaper tech into his skull. Those bastards aren't human any more.

Also (again really foreshadowing the ending choices):

Joker: They've always been about the end justifying the means. But how do you do that to innocent people and tell yourself you're helping humanity?

(The answer to that is of course: indoctrination)

Oh, this one is great!

Miranda Lawson: The deception is an unfortunate necessity.

Or this one!

Shepard: I appreciate the thought, Joker. But I'm fine.
Joker: The hell you are. You're like half robot at this point. No offence, EDI.

Another mention of the pacifying effect on the Citadel:

Tali: Everything looks so peaceful in here. You can almost forget about the war.

Also, this is really :*tinfoil*: , but I love it:

Samara: Following the code left me with no regrets. Take that for what you will.

Also, this one is pretty mind-blowing. It is about the Rachni, but it could easily refer to the Reapers:

Garrus: Siding with the giant spiders again, eh Shepard? Let's hope this one pays off.

Kirrahe: It seems the Reapers have a way of bringing us together.

Didn't see this one here, from ME2:

Shepard: You knew what [the Reapers] were, didn't you?
Legion: Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined with immortal machine bodies.

Compare this to EDI in the Synthesis ending:

EDI: As the line between synthetic and organic disappears, we may transcend mortality itself, to reach a level of existence I cannot even imagine.

Also sounds like:

Sovereign: There is a realm of existance so far beyond your own that you cannot ever imagine it.

Drewton wrote:Didn't see this one here, from ME2:

Shepard: You knew what [the Reapers] were, didn't you?
Legion: Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined with immortal machine bodies.

Compare this to EDI in the Synthesis ending:

EDI: As the line between synthetic and organic disappears, we may transcend mortality itself, to reach a level of existence I cannot even imagine.

Also sounds like:

Sovereign: There is a realm of existance so far beyond your own that you cannot ever imagine it.

Good catch about that transcended & immortal! (What Legion said)

Some of us did already make the other connection with existence & imagine. (What Sovereign said)

Always good to see multiple people spot the same things!

Which reminds me:

Rifneno wrote:

Control Shepard: Eternal. Infinite. Immortal.
Sovereign: We are eternal.
Sovereign: We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite.

Control Shepard: The man I was used these words, but only now do I truly understand them.
Sovereign: My kind transcends your very understanding.

Control Shepard: Through his death I was created. Through my birth, his thoughts are freed.
Harbinger (ME2 cut dialogue): You must die, so that we may live.
Harbinger (ME2 cut dialogue): This vision is your future. You fight your own rebirth.

Control Shepard: The man I was knew that he could only achieve this by becoming something greater.
Harbinger: You have the attention of those infinitely your greater.

I think it's safe to say I have the Cipher... but I refuse to raise my hopes just to see them dashed again, so I'm remaining obstinately neutral.

Amazing how many of those quotes are from Javik though. Maybe that's why he was DLC - BioWare knew not everyone buys DLC, especially not Day 1 DLC, and they didn't want everyone to be able to talk to the character who is essentially right about everything. Almost like BioWare's very own mouthpiece in the game - they didn't want everyone to be in on the secret...

MUST NOT GET HOPES UP.

Sammuthegreat wrote:I think it's safe to say I have the Cipher... but I refuse to raise my hopes just to see them dashed again, so I'm remaining obstinately neutral.

Amazing how many of those quotes are from Javik though. Maybe that's why he was DLC - BioWare knew not everyone buys DLC, especially not Day 1 DLC, and they didn't want everyone to be able to talk to the character who is essentially right about everything. Almost like BioWare's very own mouthpiece in the game - they didn't want everyone to be in on the secret...

MUST NOT GET HOPES UP.

I can relate, really. I do believe we're on to something here, but "plans change" and all that jazz.

#biowarpls

Humakt83 wrote:Shepard: "Enjoying the party?"
Lawyer: "Like adrenaline in my heart. They are going to have a firebreather in the bar later and shoot fireworks above the ward."
Shepard: "Would fireworks even burn in a vacuum?"
Lawyer: "It worked at New Year's. Whatever they did, it looked freaking nuclear."

Cyberfrog wrote:EDI: "You forgot homicidal synthetics rebelling against their masters."
Liara: "That was a joke, right?

SwobyJ wrote:Shepard: "Nope. Just bright lights, a few games, and some very foolish choices. Agreed?"
(...)
Shepard: "Let's spin the wheel and see what happens."
Miranda: "The odds are against us, you know?"
Shepard: "Maybe, but I've got a good feeling about this."

This was posted a long time ago in another version of this thread on BSN, forgot to add it here:

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Shepard: My mother's in the Alliance. Haven't heard from her since Earth got hit.

Garrus: I'm sure... she's okay. Pretty soon, blind hope is all we'll have left... and I hate being blind.

Shepard: I know you don't have any illusions about what we're up against, Garrus. How do you rate our chances?

Garrus: I know it looks bad now, but I think we can win this, Shepard. For the first time since we met, we're not alone in the fight.

Shepard: After what's happened to Palaven, you still believe that?

Garrus: It's something I learned long ago in C-Sec: an imminent and painful death has a way of motivating people.Instead of questioning your every word, whole civilizations are going to be begging you to save them.I didn't say there wouldn't be casualties. It's something turians are taught from birth... If just one survivor is left standing at the end of a war, then the fight was worth it, but humans want to save everyone.

skip to 2:44

Ashley Williams on the shuttle down to Priority Earth.

''It doesn't even look like Earth anymore''

Mass Effect 1. On the Citadel.

In the Citadel Tower, Ashley will say “I bet all these stair cases aren’t just for show. They make for good defensive position if this place is ever attacked.”

The geth ask, "Does this unit have a soul?"
Starbinger claims destroy will kill all the geth as well as the Reapers.

"Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. ... That silence is your answer." - Javik, on what it will take to win the war.

Javik: "Only the foolish mourn the loss of innocence. It is inevitable. The galaxy has never rewarded the naive."

Shepard: "Controlling me is a lot different than controlling a Reaper".
Illusive Man: "Have a little faith".

Leviathan: "This is not your domain. You have breached the darkness."

Just ran into this bit of conversation after Sanctuary and pulled the quote from the Mk II Indoc Theory thread to confirm it.

In regards to EDI monitoring reports from Reaper processing camps where prisoners' executions would be delayed when they reported other prisoners' escape attempts...

Bill Casey wrote:
EDI: Ninety percent refused to report their fellow prisoners. Indoctrination should have reduced that number to zero.

Shepard: Maybe word got out on how indoctrination worked. And they made a decision.

A decision to resist the Reapers in every way possible: their goals, their logic, their very existence.  Even when your mind is going to mush.

EDIT: Or the Reapers are looking for individuals who are resistant to indoctrination and processing them above all others, hence why they would be in the camp in such numbers. And hence why they seek Shepard, too.