(XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:22 pm

I wish I had some of that optimism.

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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:44 pm

oh lawd

03/20/2010 - Dalemitrians Gaining Ground on Earth, Palaven and Mannovai
“A new religion is gaining ground on Earth, Palaven and Mannovai. The Church of the Divine Plan, also known as the Dalemitrians, believe that the Citadel was constructed by the Protheans as a space ark, used to preserve life when gamma ray bursts and other lethal space weather sweeps through the galaxy exterminating all but the faithful. According to adherents, this disaster will strike "near the end of the century" and the Citadel Council is criminally liable for refusing to import species' DNA to the space station. C-SEC classifies the religion as an apocalyptic cult, and cites their numerous weapons violations as a "troubling sign". The church's annual income is estimated at nearly 900 million credits.”

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Post by smash016 on Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:56 pm

Yes, BW used to be about misdirection and plot twists, but somehow I get the feeling, with the ME3 ending disaster, and now the changes in personnel, they'll play it safe with ME4.

Btw, interesting S.D. stuff, Swoby.

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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:01 pm

Yes, for example, Dragon Age: Inquisition is a perfect example of Bioware playing it safe and no longer using misdirection and plot twists. Its the new trend.

Wait what

(lol kidding; I have no clue what the next game WILL be, of course)

I don't think my stuff was Scary Door, was it? I was just making up an example, not actually legitimately wondering what Bioware will actually do. I tend to leave that for, well, my posts on Scary Door.

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Post by Eryri on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:02 pm

The thing that's maintaining my last shred of hope is Gamble's recent tweet:

@SomeStrangeFX @Bio_Warner @bioware @masseffect There is no canon ending to ME3. Player choice is something we take very seriously.
8:35pm - 2 Mar 15

I really can't see any way that the final choice can be respected if it is supposed to have actually happened in the ME universe. You can't just sweep green circuits plastered over everything, or a horde of tame Reapers, or the complete absence of the Geth under the carpet. You'd have to write three different plots, with all the difficulty and expense that would entail. The only feasible way those choices can matter to us as players, is if they affect Shepard. I think it quite likely that Shepard will be some sort of antagonist in the next game, but one that can be redeemed if you picked destroy, or defeated with some cost if you picked control. As for those who picked synthesis... Something absolutely horrible should happen if you were daft enough to pick that shit show (and I include myself in that, God, what was I thinking?).

As for the Ark Theory, I wouldn't mind it if it takes place in the immediate aftermath of the Crucible's failure, and the Alliance realises that their only hope is to abandon Earth and run like hell with a refugee fleet and the Reapers in hot pursuit. They have already got Trisha Helfer and Michael Hogan in the cast after all...

Edit - just read Swoby's post... Christ, a bloody prequel? Bleuch!
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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:03 pm

Huh? I was talking about a prequel? 

What's going on??


As for the Ark Theory, I wouldn't mind it if it takes place in the immediate aftermath of the Crucible's failure, and the Alliance realises that their only hope is to abandon Earth and run like hell with a refugee fleet and the Reapers in hot pursuit. They have already got Trisha Helfer and Michael Hogan in the cast after all...

Agreed with this though. We knew this war would have a cost. I'd like at least most of the Reapers themselves to CRASH LIKE HELL into Earth though, before we still have to abandon. We took back Earth!----for a few days but seriously we have to go now!

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Post by Eryri on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:08 pm

@swoby
Never mind, I'm probably jumping the gun. It just seems to me that in any scenario set after ME3, the whole galaxy would know that the citadel was made by the Reapers and not the Protheans, so this new religion couldn't have arisen. Therefore that codex entry would seem to refer to a time before the war when everyone thought the citadel was Prothean.

Edit - The actual story could still take place during or after ME3 perhaps? Maybe the crew of the ark find and make an alliance with another powerful species that could tip the balance in the war with the Reapers? Would be less of a giant DEM than the Crucible anyway. Where did you find that text by the way?
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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:17 pm

Eryri wrote:@swoby
Never mind, I'm probably jumping the gun. It just seems to me that in any scenario set after ME3, the whole galaxy would know that the citadel was made by the Reapers and not the Protheans, so this new religion couldn't have arisen. Therefore that codex entry would seem to refer to a time before the war when everyone thought the citadel was Prothean.

Edit - The actual story could still take place during or after ME3 perhaps? Maybe the crew of the ark find and make an alliance with another powerful species that could tip the balance in the war with the Reapers? Would be less of a giant DEM than the Crucible anyway.

I only posted that thing because it mentioned an ark. That's it. Just to show that hey, its an idea that writers have thought about to some degree, even slightly.

It wasn't a codex entry, but I think a Cerberus Network article.

I was talking about the idea of a post-ME3-aftermath scenario. A nightmare scenario of the galaxy actually being wrecked (which players hated in the original ending so I dunno) and us having to take an ark (at least of sorts) to explore what remains and find a way out, to find a future. Or something. Frak, I dunno.

Basically a "You thought war against the Reapers would be that easy? If you did, then here's your wake up call, and if you didn't, then here's your reward... seeing the world truly as it is - a ruin, with monsters ready to devour you."

But at the same time, we'd be reactivating/rebuilding relays and like you mentioned, we'd make alliances with other species (old and new) towards our ends.

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Post by Eryri on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:26 pm

Ah, sorry for the over-reaction. I thought it was a recent tweet from Bioware, dropping hints for the next game.

I agree though, beating the Reapers shouldn't be so easy. You can't spend three games building them up as Lovecraftian horrors to have them keel over just because someone shot a pipe. Also, I don't think people would react as badly if things looked grim at the start of the next game. I think, it was because ME3 was supposed to be the end of the saga that people felt it was too dark.
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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:38 pm

Eryri wrote:Ah, sorry for the over-reaction. I thought it was a recent tweet from Bioware, dropping hints for the next game.

I agree though, beating the Reapers shouldn't be so easy. You can't spend three games building them up as Lovecraftian horrors to have them keel over just because someone shot a pipe. Also, I don't think people would react as badly if things looked grim at the start of the next game. I think, it was because ME3 was supposed to be the end of the saga that people felt it was too dark.

Right, I agree.

I don't think I want the galaxy utterly WRECKED. But damaged everywhere? I can deal with that. Enough to wipe the slate clean enough of civilization? No, but enough to force everyone to decide what they want to be next (tradition vs evolution). And that can somehow relate to what we see in the trilogy/ME3.

But I think I'd love the start of the next game to look GRIM. Give me that hopeful part, yes, but I'd love to see something weighty, something that makes me go "Oh... this is serious." Even ME3 didn't do that, for all its Vancouver invasion stuff. Make me go "What will we do now?"

I still want that Rio level, ha.

But I'm also okay with what we saw as (whether it really was or not) a Hot War, to turn into more of a Cold War. It might be neat to see the Reapers turn into more of an Old Machine faction, battered by the conflict that actually happened (and maybe the Crucible effects that did work?), and the New(?) Organics taking on more and more high technologies, and both with factions/characters that may rip the galaxy apart entirely.

A dev once talked about the next game maybe being like WWII after WWI (at least in terms of the crew involved with the new journey, and the new setting context), but I think it might (MIGHT) end up interesting if we see it like the Cold War with smaller relative conflicts, compared to the World Wars, but with larger implications and with Crucible-level (whatever the Crucible actually is) powers at many fingertips. Still war. Still dragging on, in its own way. But also allowed to be more, and even be considered a new war/sort of war, at least by many players. Old Vets like us may want old conflicts to continue ;), and may still be given plenty of reason to do so.

Because fuck the Reapers!


Last edited by SwobyJ on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by jojon2se on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:53 pm

It would be interesting to have to defuse situations such as: "Hang on... So you already unwelcome boat refugees claim to be running from an enormus armada of virtually indestructable killer machines, and in doing so, you bring them HERE?!"

Some dumb sods would be bound to get into their heads that they can trade us for their own safety. :7

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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:54 pm

jojon2se wrote: It would be interesting to have to defuse situations such as: "Hang on... So you already unwelcome boat refugees claim to be running from an enormus armada of virtually indestructable killer machines, and in doing so, you bring them HERE?!"

Some dumb sods would be bound to get into their heads that they can trade us for their own safety. :7

Ha!

*heads to sanctuary planet*

*everything seems safe*

*sold out by sanctuary planet!*

*Renegade option to kill them all*

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Post by Eryri on Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:07 pm

Humans get a taste of what it was like to be the Quarians.

I think I like this idea. It has a lot of potential.
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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:22 pm

SwobyJ wrote:
fshep wrote:I don't know if anyone's discussed this already, but it came across my news feed this morning so I thought I'd share:

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/27134/article/mass-effect-4-will-protheans-be-present/

Unless they're insinuating Casey Hudson's a Prothean (he's who I see at about 39 seconds in), I'm having a hard time seeing what they're talking about. Could be a baseless claim.

Its a baseless claim.

I'm not too annoyed, but people really should stop going to these peripheral literally clickbait sites that regurgitate the most random and vague rumors or even utter falsehoods.

The 'is it a Prothian?' discussion was last year and we have almost nothing to work with.

Could it be one? Maybe.

But like 1/3 of a body shot isn't enough to know.

I get several of these articles going through my radar a week and I ignore the vast majority of them. This one got retweeted by some people who also usually ignore these articles, so I thought I'd share in case anyone had any thoughts. I agree it's likely baseless.

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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:26 pm

Eryri wrote:Humans get a taste of what it was like to be the Quarians.

I think I like this idea. It has a lot of potential.

I wish we could Like posts here tbh. ^

fshep wrote:
SwobyJ wrote:
fshep wrote:I don't know if anyone's discussed this already, but it came across my news feed this morning so I thought I'd share:

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/27134/article/mass-effect-4-will-protheans-be-present/

Unless they're insinuating Casey Hudson's a Prothean (he's who I see at about 39 seconds in), I'm having a hard time seeing what they're talking about. Could be a baseless claim.

Its a baseless claim.

I'm not too annoyed, but people really should stop going to these peripheral literally clickbait sites that regurgitate the most random and vague rumors or even utter falsehoods.

The 'is it a Prothian?' discussion was last year and we have almost nothing to work with.

Could it be one? Maybe.

But like 1/3 of a body shot isn't enough to know.

I get several of these articles going through my radar a week and I ignore the vast majority of them. This one got retweeted by some people who also usually ignore these articles, so I thought I'd share in case anyone had any thoughts. I agree it's likely baseless.

Its no problem. 

I dunno what to think about a Prothian (Javik/Other) in the next game.  scratch

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Post by Terramine on Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:18 am

Eryri wrote:*snip* I think it quite likely that Shepard will be some sort of antagonist in the next game *snip*
Aka all 3 endings lead to indoctrination. Glad we agree.

Ark Theory after Shepard gets indoctrinated through the Crucible? Fawless explanation to be honest.

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Post by Terramine on Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:33 am

I think it's somewhat in line with what they've been planning since forever. You can look at past concept art and hear past ideas that Bioware was leaning towards and realize they precisely intended for Shepard to be the way to show the player how one becomes Saren.

Not that Shepard isn't going to be slightly different. I still think he's critical for the fall of the Reapers probably. But seeing him being rescued or whatever after being indoctrinated and then the different species of the Galaxy work together to build an ark andblahblahblah.

It's all a very workable idea that would at least save the series for me. Even if it's not /as/ perfect as the imagination some ITers have had.

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Post by ZerebusPrime on Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:40 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I wish I had some of that optimism.
Ah yes. Optimism. That must be the cause of the numbness.

Seriously, I'm wasting my time on Call of Duty:AW. I don't especially like it. I'm burned out on Dragon Age. I need a Mass Effect fix.
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:28 pm

Been playing Fallout New Vegas and Alien Isolation, which is fucking terrifying BTW.

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Been leveling an alt through The Secret World, skipping cutscenes, which is like blasphemy.

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Post by dorktainian on Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:36 pm

updating ESO now it's gone F2P.

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Post by ElSuperGecko on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:36 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Been playing Alien Isolation, which is fucking terrifying BTW.

Ain't it just? One hell of a game.

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Post by ZerebusPrime on Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:09 pm

Alien Isolation is on my to do list. I have to be in the right mood first.

Or maybe being ticked off by Call of Duty lag kills will drive me to it. Today I emptied a submachine gun clip at close range into a guy who stood still, impervious to all damage. A few seconds later the game teleported him to my right and showed that he had killed me with a shotgun blast whilest I shot at thin air. I just... don't even...
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Post by Terramine on Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:12 pm

I play whatever is installed on my computer at random... and that's a long list TBH. But recently I started an ME3 playthrough and beat Mafia 2 which was a really good game to be honest but hate the way it ended. Fuck them for doing what they did.

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Post by dorktainian on Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:55 am

I began a new me3 playthrough last night. that game just smacks of what-the-fuckery.
I also (in hindsight... how long has this shit been posing questions?) wonder if shep ever woke up after being blasted by the reapers at the beginning of the game......again.

I'm also playing through with the premise that humanity is leaving on a huge ark...... err what?

how? why? when? what the fookadoodle fuck?


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