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Post by TerramineLightvoid on Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:14 am

dorktainian wrote:Question.  On the Kardashev scale, are the reapers a Type III Civilization that looked down on Leviathan?  Leviathan seen almost as abhorrent by the reapers from a evolution point of view?  Replace Human with Leviathan in the text below.
If the Leviathans were real, and that's almost certainly not the case. Then that would likely be the case yeah. But then that just circles back around to the idea that if Leviathans are real, that the Reapers are just what happens when a Galactic Scale/Type 2 species invents AI or Cybernetic technology. In otherwords the AI conflict itself at the largest and most extreme manifestation.

Also it should be noted that while the odds are that the Reapers are a Type 3 civilization. Technically speaking from the perspective of a Type 0-2 civilization, you wouldn't be able to know the distinction between Type 3 and any level above that. Because Type 3 is already incomprehensibly powerful, you wouldn't be able to much tell the difference between Type 3 and Type 4.

Altho, Type 4 is definitely the level when you'd start messing with the very fabrics of reality n shit and inter-dimensional travel. Type 4 is basically the kind of Species that would be liable to be messing around with Time. The only issue is that so far the KIND of Tech the reapers employ just don't seem to delve into the realms of Space and Time all that much. Indoctrination is their prized weapon, so that tells you where their frame of mind is at. A conqueror species just generally doesn't have the perogative to develop Time based technologies.

At the very least you'd expect them to be like the Time Lords from Doctor Who. A whole species dedicated to Time-based technology.

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Post by dorktainian on Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:02 am

TerramineLightvoid wrote:
dorktainian wrote:Question.  On the Kardashev scale, are the reapers a Type III Civilization that looked down on Leviathan?  Leviathan seen almost as abhorrent by the reapers from a evolution point of view?  Replace Human with Leviathan in the text below.
If the Leviathans were real, and that's almost certainly not the case. Then that would likely be the case yeah. But then that just circles back around to the idea that if Leviathans are real, that the Reapers are just what happens when a Galactic Scale/Type 2 species invents AI or Cybernetic technology. In otherwords the AI conflict itself at the largest and most extreme manifestation.

Also it should be noted that while the odds are that the Reapers are a Type 3 civilization. Technically speaking from the perspective of a Type 0-2 civilization, you wouldn't be able to know the distinction between Type 3 and any level above that. Because Type 3 is already incomprehensibly powerful, you wouldn't be able to much tell the difference between Type 3 and Type 4.

Altho, Type 4 is definitely the level when you'd start messing with the very fabrics of reality n shit and inter-dimensional travel. Type 4 is basically the kind of Species that would be liable to be messing around with Time. The only issue is that so far the KIND of Tech the reapers employ just don't seem to delve into the realms of Space and Time all that much. Indoctrination is their prized weapon, so that tells you where their frame of mind is at. A conqueror species just generally doesn't have the perogative to develop Time based technologies.

At the very least you'd expect them to be like the Time Lords from Doctor Who. A whole species dedicated to Time-based technology.

Talking about Type 4, What about the Star (Anadeus)? Tim's viewing window always faces the star, almost like it's talking to him. It also changes colour depending upon his current state of mind.

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Post by TerramineLightvoid on Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:31 pm

dorktainian wrote:Talking about Type 4, What about the Star (Anadeus)?  Tim's viewing window always faces the star, almost like it's talking to him.  It also changes colour depending upon his current state of mind.
What makes you think the star is changing based on his state of mind? What makes you think TIM's state of mind changes all that much? I thought it changed based on Shepard's choices? Based on Paragon VS Renegade? At the very least I thought it changed consistently? As in it didn't change back and forth, it went from one color to the next?

It's just really weird to call the star sentient and suspect it's talking to him. It's obvious the only one talking to him is Harbinger. The best explanation for the star is that it's a remnant of the original Dark Energy plotline. With Shepard's decisions being hinted as somehow having an influence on the dark energy situation? Seriously who knows, it's a weird ass plot device that has no elaboration whatsoever(good job Bioware, guess you forgot bout Chekov's Gun).

Edit: Deleted my subsequent posts because I shouldn't post that many times in a row in the main topic, and because the images weren't loading properly so I'll just wait till I've got everything compiled and uploaded somewhere more reliable and post it in my andromeda topic.

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Post by Rifneno on Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:48 am

TerramineLightvoid wrote:Rif... by definition there is almost no such thing as a "string of coincidences". It's almost an oxymoron/contradiction of terms.

...  That doesn't make sense.

I'm not saying it's impossible with the way "Chance" plays out, but it's debateable to what extent Chance really exists in the first place. Considering the way chance plays out in the big picture, that given long enough you will roll every concievable side of a dice at least once eventually. Chance and Destiny/Inevitability seem to be one in the same thing, with Chance just being the finite measure of more trancendent inevitability.

But more specifically when a "string of coincidences" leads to a culmination of one of the biggest cosmic events to ever happen in 50,000 years. It's hard to think that was just "dumb luck".

Ahh.  There's the flaw in your analysis.  You're thinking too small.  Think bigger.  Much bigger.  We've only got the dating on a few Reapers, and one of them is a billion years old.  So it's likely they've been at this for multiple billions of years, but definitely for one.  They've been doing this for tens of thousands of cycles.  If they're harvesting other galaxies, hundreds of thousands.  Or more.  This is Chaos Theory.  I remember a fictionalized version of Julius Ceasar on Hercules: The Legendary Journeys telling his men, "In any battle scenario, there are variables you cannot predict."  That always stuck with me.  That's what's going on here.  This cycle is the law of averages catching up to the Reapers.  No matter how well they plan, eventually, they're going to have a cycle where just about everything goes wrong for them.  That is this cycle.  That's why this cycle is so important.  It has a chance.  A slim one, but a chance.  It will be hundreds of millions if not billions of years before another opportunity like this presents itself.

In fact a comparative IRL is during WW2 when the first atomic bomb was dropped. That was also a "string of coincidences" that stemmed all the way back to the scientific community discovering the equation required to make such a weapon possible... meanwhile, said unfathomably powerful knowledge just HAPPENED to fall into the hands of a /jew genius that was smarter than any many past or present/... like already I think you can see the problem here. Considering Hitler was all about exterminating the jews, and 1 jew just happened to unlock /LITERALLY GODLIKE/ power /IN REAL LIFE/, at exactly the time. Also this jew JUST HAPPENED to leave germany before shit popped off with this whole Holocaust thing. Then, to top it all off. That Jew just happened to make THE PERFECT CHOICE on who to give this technology to.

But... we didn't use the nukes on the nazis.  We used them on cowards who didn't care about your genetics, only if you came from a xenophobic abomination of an archipelago.

All the while in retrospect, what essentially happened here was someone who decided to ally with Hitler/The Devil... relatively instantly got karmically smote by this Godlike bomb of unfathomable assrape.

Allied with?  If you ask me, those cowards were even worse than the nazis.  Have you read the unspeakable shit they did to countries like China and Korea?  When I first read about the Rape of Nanking, I didn't have context and I thought it was fiction.  Really bad fiction.  It wasn't even believable.  It was like something you'd expect to see Darkseid do.  It was just pointless evil for the sake of being cartoonishly over the top evil.  There wasn't even a goal.  As horrific as what the nazis did was, they had a goal.  A purpose.  They believed they were making the human species better by purging it of its worst genetics and making the best parts flourish.  Aimed at proper genetics and done with proper ethics, this would actually be a noble and wonderful end.  Say, using DNA manipulation to eliminate genetic disease and make people smarter.  It's just their goals that were jawdroppingly horrific.  But Nanking?  And things like it?  Holy shit.  Why?  There's no purpose, there's no goal, there's no benefit.  Again, it's like something I'd expect Darkseid to do.  And I use Darkseid because he's the unrealistically over-the-top evil character I know of.  So... imagine my surprise to find out it was a real thing those pathetic fucking cowards actually did.

I consider Japan the worse of the two.  Germany killed more people, Japan caused more suffering.  What burns me most is that the average person has no idea the real story because those goddamn COWARDS are still lying to this fucking day about happened.  They've been spreading misinformation and lies for decades.  Not only do they STILL deny most of their atrocities, since the 70s they started some revisionist bullshit that claims "like, totally" surrendered before Hiroshima and the US nuked them anyway.  Just for the lulz.  No, being comic book monsters is YOUR gimmick, you vile disgusting cowards.  In reality, they took both nukes, and asked the USSR for aid.  Stalin responded by declaring war on the weakened Japan.  Because of course he did, he's fucking Stalin.  Only after both nukes AND the Soviet declaration of war did Japan discuss surrender.  And the military tries to stage a coup so they could keep fighting!  Meanwhile, Germany takes full responsibility for their ancestor's actions and condemns them with as much fervor as even the jews.  Thus I hold no grudge with modern Germany.  My grudge for modern Japan has its own fucking gravity.

All of this appearing as just "a string of coincidences"? Or perhaps proof of Divine Intervention and that there is a cosmic consciousness observing us and ready to punish those who dare become wicked enough? I mean, while Christians are preaching about some magical bullshit in book. I'm just over here like... "Yo dawg..."

You're aware that the firebombing of Tokyo did far more damage, both structurally and loss-of-life wise, than the nuclear bombings?

Considering this technology has ended up in the hands of the likes of Stalin and North Korea, I'm disinclined to believe it's some form of divine retribution.  Natural disasters would've done as much or more damage without giving these "godlike" weapons to some of the most evil people in the world.

But to entertain your belief, I will say I always thought that although agnostic/atheist myself, I think the best evidence for a higher being being involved is the insane string of coincidences that have prevented a nuclear exchange during the cold war.  There were tons of times some stupid accident almost caused one side to launch prematurely.  For example, one time an intruder tripped an alarm on a nuclear base in America.  This sent out a warning to all other nuclear bases to be on high alert for possible infiltration. Only the alarms were wired wrong at one base.  They didn't get "high alert", they got "DEFCON 1: Confirmed nuclear war"  They realized the error with only moments to spare.  Bombers armed with nuclear weapons were taxiing for takeoff when one of the troops frantically drove a truck onto the runway to prevent them from taking off.  They were to be under radio silence.  If those birds got into the air, there would've been no calling them back.  Oh, and the intruder that trigger the whole mess?  It was just a fucking bear scavenging for food.

What's generally regarded as the closest we came to an accidental nuclear exchange was actually just after the Soviet Union fell.  Radar showed a bogey at high speed coming toward Russia.  Then it split off like a MIRV and everyone rightly shit themselves.  Boris Yeltsin was informed and he went through some of the tensest moments any human has ever had.  He had to make the decision to launch BEFORE the MIRV struck because once it did, their ability to counterattack would be lost.  This is the only time in history that either the US or Russia/USSR ever opened the famed "nuclear football" and retrieved the ICBM launch codes.  That's how close it was.  With literally seconds left for Yeltsin to make the call, the "MIRV" dropped harmlessly into the ocean.  It was actually a science probe launched by NATO to study the northern lights.  They explicitly warned Russia beforehand that they were launching it and that it would resemble a MIRV but not to worry.  Some impossibly careless drunken ruskie cunt almost destroyed the world by not bothering to pass the message up the chain of command.

There's at least a dozen of these "near miss" stories.  Some are only coming out recently.  Undoubtedly some are still secret.  But there were many times only dumb luck prevented an accidental exchange.

In fact I'm saying we essentially still got this story.

Yeah, that's what I meant.  Going from "Reaper tells lies to trick you into thinking it's an ally" to "Reaper pretends to be its creator to trick you into thinking it's an ally" is a minor shift.  Going from "genuine traitor Reaper joins your cause" to "Reaper's creators are alive and well and they join your cause" is a tectonic shift.

I think, even among those of us with enough common sense to realize the whole Leviathan story is bullshit (which is surprisingly rare even among IT'ers), it's severely underestimated how important it is that Shepard was alone when he confronted those cuttlefish.

Right and that EMP doesn't effect Shepard's escape shuttle? Because remember, the Reaper is chasing right after Shep. The EMP is powerful enough to take out a goddamn Reaper, but not that tiny little shuttle? It's precisely like the writers wanted to make sure that the scene disproved itself beyond a shadow of a doubt. The ONLY explanation that works is that it was either some sort of Reaper specific signal... which means it's a kind of /Reaper Tech/ just like the signal that disabled the ship originally... or it's just a very weak emp signal that both Reapers used as a "sign" to tell the other one "Hey bro, this is the signal to know when to drop and play dead."

Well it's not an EMP, it just functions like one to mass effect drives.  It's theoretically possible for it to be a focused beam weapon rather than an area effect like an explosion.  The beam could be off the spectrums visible to humans and could easily target the Reaper without effecting the shuttle.  Even in real life we have some prototype technology along these lines.  American military planes, especially fighters, will soon be able to use an invisible beam weapon to fry the radar of whatever it's pointed at.

I'm speaking hypothetically, of course.  I'm 100% on board with the "Reaper was just acting" notion.

dorktainian wrote:Talking about Type 4, What about the Star (Anadeus)?  Tim's viewing window always faces the star, almost like it's talking to him.  It also changes colour depending upon his current state of mind.

It doesn't change color.  It's not the same star.  It's mentioned in the novels that TIM's base is mobile and is constantly moving to different systems.  Of course, that base is also described as tiny with a staff of maybe a dozen or so.  Definitely not the behemoth we assaulted.  Either the devs that worked on that part of the game didn't know their lore or it's more evidence we're in the matrix long before the beam run.  Regardless, Karpyshyn didn't leave until 2 was done so they'd have definitely gotten it right in 2.

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Post by ZerebusPrime on Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:50 am

Yeah, like you have anything better to do:

And I see Youtube windows aren't working for me.  Link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s9guyX-8vk
Smudboy discussing what it would take to bring back Mass Effect at this point.

EDIT: Trying a Youtube window again:


Last edited by ZerebusPrime on Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Rifneno on Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:18 am

ZerebusPrime wrote:Yeah, like you have anything better to do:

And I see Youtube windows aren't working for me.  Link instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s9guyX-8vk
Smudboy discussing what it would take to bring back Mass Effect at this point.
I can only think of one way, and if God didn't save his own son while being tortured to death, I doubt he's gonna save ours.

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Post by magnetite on Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:34 pm

Something I was going to add was the Dreamlight_tile texture on the Starchild, is the same Dreamlight_tile texture that is used here. It's that same whispy texture.
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Post by TerramineLightvoid on Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:45 pm

Rifneno wrote:
That doesn't make sense.
Because what I'm trying to get across is really tricky to explain. Even when looking at the word Coincidence in a dictionary, you find that it is apparently synonymous with completely contradictory terms: On the one hand it's regarded as synonymous with Serendipity, Chance, Luck, and even outright the word Accident. But then it's at the same time regarded as synonymous with Fate, Destiny, Providence.

The spirit of why this is, is precisely one in the same with my point. Again, scientifically speaking. You have all these different possibilities that can occur. Well "chance" or "luck" or "accident" is something you perceive because you cannot see that in the larger picture, ALL of those scenarios will happen EVENTUALLY. Meaning it's not "dumb luck", there is no such thing. It's inevitable. Whether it happens now, or later, does not matter. It was going to happen anyways.

Ahh. There's the flaw in your analysis. You're thinking too small. Think bigger. Much bigger. We've only got the dating on a few Reapers, and one of them is a billion years old. So it's likely they've been at this for multiple billions of years, but definitely for one. They've been doing this for tens of thousands of cycles. If they're harvesting other galaxies, hundreds of thousands. Or more. This is Chaos Theory. I remember a fictionalized version of Julius Ceasar on Hercules: The Legendary Journeys telling his men, "In any battle scenario, there are variables you cannot predict." That always stuck with me. That's what's going on here. This cycle is the law of averages catching up to the Reapers. No matter how well they plan, eventually, they're going to have a cycle where just about everything goes wrong for them. That is this cycle. That's why this cycle is so important. It has a chance. A slim one, but a chance. It will be hundreds of millions if not billions of years before another opportunity like this presents itself.
Right exactly, that's what I mean. In fact this is a very common theme in fictional media particularly with "Big Bads" that reach a large enough scope. Think Thanos from Avengers, dude wins 14 million possibilities to 1... yet that 1 is just as guaranteed to happen somewhere within the Multiverse as any of the other 14 possibilities. The same goes here, it doesn't matter how long the reapers manage to circumvent serendipity and how high they climb in terms of evolution and survival and technology. There will still always be a conceivable scenario... an arrangement of objects, beings, and events... which ultimately leads to their downfall. Like the pinhole on the death star.

Not only that but it only even appears as unlikely as it does, from the bottom up. What do I mean by that? Well flip the hole ordeal around... realize that what you are talking about is essentially reaching the Zenith of existence. The pinnacle of survival... is to become God. Hence why when you climb far enough, like the reapers did... you start to "play god". You're basically talking about the challenge to go from absolute nonexistence, to some humble start to life such as abiogensis and a single cellular lifeform... all the way to triumphing over every obstacle along the way, to becoming God.

The higher and higher you get, the smaller the pinhole gets to be able to be taken down. But inversely, the closer and closer you get to the Peak... the increasingly slim your chances get to succeeding/the increasingly large your odds of falling are.

Because the reapers are "higher" than we, the pinhole appears to revolve around them. It looks like a pinhole of a chance to take /them/ down. But in reality if you were standing where the reapers are, the pinhole keeps going far and beyond them. So they see a pinhole above them which scales indefinitely higher. Or at least, that's what they would see if they had the humility to LOOK UP. But the Reapers are so far removed from anything like that. So all they can see is the horizon of their own arrogance.

The odds of Us VS Them are stacked against unfathomably so. But the odds of the Reapers VS the Universe itself are just as stacked against... if not infinitely more so. So while countless cycles happen all proving the statement that we are insignificant ants that could never fathom conquering them. Eventually 1 will represent the opposite scenario, where the ants overpower the titans. Like you said, not because of the ants themselves... but because the universe itself will leverage eventually.

Granted, actually pinning it down to a completely predictable pattern is a misunderstanding and fallacy. Like saying the next chance won't come in so long in a billion years. Technically it could happen next cycle, immediately after this one. Or 5 cycles down. Or yes 1 billion years from now, but it could take longer even.

But the point is... it's almost like the way the universe itself works. yearning for Eternal Dominance is equivalent to /guaranteeing your demise/. You live by the sword, you die by the sword... and all that shit. By deciding to become the pinnacle and deciding to become eternal, the Reapers have to contend with Inevitability. They proclaim themselves inevitable, much like Thanos. But in the end all it would take to end them is a mouse, in the right spot and time, pushing the right button... ;P however slim the string of events. In the face of true inevitability, even the Reapers look like relative chump change.

Allied with? If you ask me, those cowards were even worse than the nazis. Have you read the unspeakable shit they did to countries like China and Korea? When I first read about the Rape of Nanking, I didn't have context and I thought it was fiction. Really bad fiction. It wasn't even believable. It was like something you'd expect to see Darkseid do. It was just pointless evil for the sake of being cartoonishly over the top evil. There wasn't even a goal. As horrific as what the nazis did was, they had a goal. A purpose. They believed they were making the human species better by purging it of its worst genetics and making the best parts flourish. Aimed at proper genetics and done with proper ethics, this would actually be a noble and wonderful end. Say, using DNA manipulation to eliminate genetic disease and make people smarter. It's just their goals that were jawdroppingly horrific. But Nanking? And things like it? Holy shit. Why? There's no purpose, there's no goal, there's no benefit. Again, it's like something I'd expect Darkseid to do. And I use Darkseid because he's the unrealistically over-the-top evil character I know of. So... imagine my surprise to find out it was a real thing those pathetic fucking cowards actually did.
But then again it really depends on context. The Nazis threatened the entire world, Hitler was planning on Global Domination. No matter how bad/intense the severity of the crimes the Japanese committed, did they threaten the entire world? The real horror behind Hitler and the Nazis was more a potential waiting to be realized than anything... if Hitler had his way, there'd be by far more atrocity than there ever was in the Japanese. Even if not on a qualitative basis, then on a Quantity basis.

To put it another way, it almost has less to do with Morality and more to do with Necessity. Think about it this way... generally God wouldn't have to interfere and even if he interfered with more mundane ordeals, it'd be practically impossible to distinguish from coincidence. It reminds me of what Stephen Hawking once said about proving God's existence. He criticized the God claim by pointing out that if an Intervening God existed, we would be able to notice him. Because as soon as he would reach his hand into the universe, the proverbial sticking the finger in the pie... then we would register said event.

What I gathered from what he said, is that to prove God exists would be tricky... even if he really does exist. How do you get him to show himself? How do you get him to "reach his hand into the universe", in a way that is noticeable? Well... a good way to do it, is to start pushing things around significantly enough. Get the ball rolling so much that the collateral impact on the universe or the events taking place within the universe, and within God's plan... well so that it /messes with God's plan/.

Yet I cannot think of a single point in human history when any person or nation, had that kind of power... besides when 1 man seriously, like a "cartoon villain" as you put it... seriously tried to /RULE THE WORLD/. If you go to amass enough political power, an army, the fire power, etc required to conquer the entire Earth. I think that might "rock the boat" quite a bit... don't you think? Like if ANYONE was, albeit incidentally, gunning for the curtain to see what was behind it... it'd have to be the guy that actually thought he could completely usurp control over God's creation.

Yet what happened? All the things needed to go wrong and stop him, happened. It was already set up in the grand scheme, outside of any individual human being's cognizant ability to plan. No human was actually responsible for him losing, technically not even everybody combined who was against him... was the reason he lost, at least on a cognizant level. To us it was hope and chance. But in retrospect it was all set up.

I consider Japan the worse of the two. Germany killed more people, Japan caused more suffering.
That really depends on your perspective though. I mean as far as I'm concerned, Death itself IS the ultimate evil and is the basis for Suffering to begin with. Suffering that doesn't kill, can be overcome. But death cannot be reversed and cannot be overcome. Ceasing to exist is the worst of all possible fates.

But again it doesn't matter because following your own logic... it seems God agrees with you? I mean he dropped the bomb on the Japs... not on the Nazis? I didn't say that the Genius Jew and his Bomb were directly what took down the Nazis. I just said that it was unfathomably apropos that the head of the World War was a borderline retarded jew hating megalomaniac, meanwhile he got cucked by a genius jew who got ahold of actual Godlike power and used it to smite his fucked up love affair, and then delivered said power into the hands of those best to hold onto it.

It's the whole overarching ordeal. Not just that the bomb was used against him, but that because it was discovered by Einstein... that explicitly meant it wasn't discovered by Hitler first. It also is what determined that it would be delivered into Hitler's enemies hands... rather than his own. People often take it for granted, but with the way science actually works and the way that Einstein's discovery was really just the pinnacle of a trail of bread crumbs already laid down and being charted out by others, etc.

Whether it ended up in our hands, or Hitler's... either scenario was possible. If Einstein had of done 1 thing different from what he did, the odds that Hitler would have gotten ahold of the atom bomb instead... would have went up tremendously. Even some specific things he did, not happening, would have explicitly GUARANTEED Hitler getting the atom bomb first.

So everything... from it taking down one of his most significant allies. Going through the pinhole string of events that would keep it out of his hands. All the while being facilitated by one of the most wise, compassionate, and Genius human beings to ever walk the face of the Earth... who happened to be a Jew, of all things.

The point is... it's all so /thematic/. The problem that I have is. Going back to my own old cynical atheist perspective that I spent 7 years of my life donning... if everything is truly random, chaos, and that the objective secular universe has no moral or intelligent weighting to it. Then why the fuck does that entire fucking Era of human history even exist? Why is it so Thematically set up? Everything about the situation screams some Disney tripe about how "If one side of the coin rises, so shall it's counterpart." like this is the goddamn Star Wars Sequel Trilogy "Hitler, if the dark side rises... so shall a light side representative rise to bring you down."

What burns me most is that the average person has no idea the real story because those goddamn COWARDS are still lying to this fucking day about happened. They've been spreading misinformation and lies for decades. Not only do they STILL deny most of their atrocities, since the 70s they started some revisionist bullshit that claims "like, totally" surrendered before Hiroshima and the US nuked them anyway. Just for the lulz. No, being comic book monsters is YOUR gimmick, you vile disgusting cowards. In reality, they took both nukes, and asked the USSR for aid. Stalin responded by declaring war on the weakened Japan. Because of course he did, he's fucking Stalin. Only after both nukes AND the Soviet declaration of war did Japan discuss surrender. And the military tries to stage a coup so they could keep fighting! Meanwhile, Germany takes full responsibility for their ancestor's actions and condemns them with as much fervor as even the jews. Thus I hold no grudge with modern Germany. My grudge for modern Japan has its own fucking gravity.
I mean I didn't know much about their actual history, but I know about their deceptive and ethically whack tendencies. Shit when fukushima popped off, they were straight up telling the people living near it that it was perfectly fine. Why? Who the fuck knows. I know they don't want to spread panic, but I don't think that applies to people living within the fuckin neighborhood. Like there was any justifiable reason to NOT say "Hey guys, you need to move. That shit will kill you."

You're aware that the firebombing of Tokyo did far more damage, both structurally and loss-of-life wise, than the nuclear bombings?
But that's not a factor of potential? By that I mean, you're not saying those bombs used to do the fire bombing. Like a single one of those, was more powerful than an Atom Bomb right? Okay so, if you were to replace every single one of those bombs with Atom Bombs? You're saying the damage would even be remotely comparable? That the actual historical event you are referring to, would be equal to or WORSE than the hypothetical scenario I just proposed... yeah, there you go.

Considering this technology has ended up in the hands of the likes of Stalin and North Korea, I'm disinclined to believe it's some form of divine retribution.  Natural disasters would've done as much or more damage without giving these "godlike" weapons to some of the most evil people in the world.
The technology getting into other people's hands was inevitable. That's actually what highlights the exact way history went, as so hard to see as a coincidence. Because otherwise, yes. Technology is a force of nature unto itself, or at least Intelligence is and thus Technology is the product of said force of nature. Technology cannot be controlled, it cannot be stopped, etc.

It's the whole reason we can't just shut our own nukes off and deconstruct our own dangerous technologies. Because fact of the matter is... if /we/ don't, someone else WILL. So you can refer to other situations and events. You can weigh them all day. But the thing is. From the perspective of an Agnostic Atheist... if there is no God, no absolute order, no objective morality. Then why has the universe been so merciful functionally speaking... so as to have it that there is EVER a situation so "coincidental" as to err so in favor, of the side of Good? As the series of events, the era, etc that we are talking about?

Why would an /indifferent/ universe, against all other odds, end up with such an unlikely arrangement of events. In a lot of ways the whole situation we are talking about... is a thematic parallel to Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame. Hitler is Thanos, and the Nuke is the Infinity Gauntlet. If Hitnos had gotten the Infinity Bomb, all his wishes would have been made true in the equivalent of a snap of a finger. Meanwhile the Aveng-.... I mean the Americans, assembled with their allies from all across the Univer-.... I mean Planet. To unify against Hitnos and to stop him from snapping/booming the infinity bomb.

In the end, as he ascribed to a corrupt notion of exaltation. He would inevitably be brought down, and told flat out by the universe itself: No.

But to entertain your belief, I will say I always thought that although agnostic/atheist myself, I think the best evidence for a higher being being involved is the insane string of coincidences that have prevented a nuclear exchange during the cold war.  There were tons of times some stupid accident almost caused one side to launch prematurely.  For example, one time an intruder tripped an alarm on a nuclear base in America.  This sent out a warning to all other nuclear bases to be on high alert for possible infiltration. Only the alarms were wired wrong at one base.  They didn't get "high alert", they got "DEFCON 1: Confirmed nuclear war"  They realized the error with only moments to spare.  Bombers armed with nuclear weapons were taxiing for takeoff when one of the troops frantically drove a truck onto the runway to prevent them from taking off.  They were to be under radio silence.  If those birds got into the air, there would've been no calling them back.  Oh, and the intruder that trigger the whole mess?  It was just a fucking bear scavenging for food.

What's generally regarded as the closest we came to an accidental nuclear exchange was actually just after the Soviet Union fell.  Radar showed a bogey at high speed coming toward Russia.  Then it split off like a MIRV and everyone rightly shit themselves.  Boris Yeltsin was informed and he went through some of the tensest moments any human has ever had.  He had to make the decision to launch BEFORE the MIRV struck because once it did, their ability to counterattack would be lost.  This is the only time in history that either the US or Russia/USSR ever opened the famed "nuclear football" and retrieved the ICBM launch codes.  That's how close it was.  With literally seconds left for Yeltsin to make the call, the "MIRV" dropped harmlessly into the ocean.  It was actually a science probe launched by NATO to study the northern lights.  They explicitly warned Russia beforehand that they were launching it and that it would resemble a MIRV but not to worry.  Some impossibly careless drunken ruskie cunt almost destroyed the world by not bothering to pass the message up the chain of command.

There's at least a dozen of these "near miss" stories.  Some are only coming out recently.  Undoubtedly some are still secret.  But there were many times only dumb luck prevented an accidental exchange.
Which unto itself looks almost like something was "out to get us" and try and make us destroy ourselves? But every time? We just somehow managed to stop it from happening? As if something was pushing back and making sure it wouldn't happen. Almost as if it was never up to us, but rather that we were but pawns to higher forces. But all of this just compounds on when you think about it. Every time I revisit that time era and look at it from a different angle. The more miraculous it becomes.

I'm not saying any of this to convert. I'm not even saying this is /proof/. I'm just saying that as an Ex-Atheist and knowing the skepticism I went through. At the very least I had found that as long as you peeled back the dogma and the presuppositions. That believing in God... as an idea unto itself. Is really not all that crazy, not any more than the weirdness we already see happen within modern science. Science is always stranger than the strangest fiction. Particularly I found situations like this. Where if you were going to challenge the notion that everything was just a cold, empty, meaningless, and secular universe. That you would AT LEAST expect to find stuff like this happening throughout history.

Moreover, regardless of whether this counts as evidence for anything or not. I think it's important to note that it's a false dichotomy to say that the discussion must be about God. A common false dichotomy people seem to have, is that things like Destiny and Purpose MUST be begotten by a God. VS a secular universe begetting random chaos.

Technically Purpose and Destiny are their own constructs unto themselves. To put it another way... people got the idea of a Grand Design from believing in God. But there's no reason a Grand Design couldn't just /naturally/ be in place from the get go... with no God or intelligence putting it into place in the first place. That is technically already what is being described by an Atheist... when a Christian tries to argue that the complexity and grandiosity of the universe proves that God exists, and the Atheist basically just shows how any "Intelligent Design" could form from chaos. Likewise on the flip side, that is afterall the whole point to the Logos being the conception of The Laws of Physics to begin with. It's the same idea, whether you're saying God put the laws there... or the laws were always there. It's the laws themselves, that you're really talking about.

Which highlights our own discussion? In that you can see how it is conceivable that what is happening with the Reapers and this cycle and Shepard, is really just an expression of "Higher Forces". As in the Laws of Physics themselves being expressed on a scale that even a Reaper cannot comprehend, little alone a mere human being. Which is really what this weird off topic tangent was really about. I didn't say it was actually about God, I just meant that they were following certain themes which are often represented within religious beliefs.

I think, even among those of us with enough common sense to realize the whole Leviathan story is bullshit (which is surprisingly rare even among IT'ers), it's severely underestimated how important it is that Shepard was alone when he confronted those cuttlefish.
I get what you mean. I don't even think /you/ emphasized it as well as you could have. When you said that never before has Shepard been alone BESIDES that time in Arrival, it put emphasis on Arrival and what happened there. But even when you just focus on the fact that Shepard was never alone otherwise. I becomes clear that there's a thematic line being drawn here.

And I mean I personally think it goes deeper than that even. I am pretty certain this is precisely the element which the writers were using to say that Shepard was as "immune" as he was. Because talking about psychology and neuroscience, if you wanted to find the closest comparative that we have in the real world to something like Indoctrination. Addiction may very well be a pretty damn close counterpart.

The more and more you're exposed to it, the more "hooked" you become. This process involves isolating you, and involves convincing you that the object of focus is more important than even natural lymbic impulses such as Hunger, Sleep, Sex, etc. Even perhaps more important than survival itself. Meanwhile the more conditioned you become to perceive the alternatives as negative.

I could go over countless ways the 2 processes are so similar, but really I'd rather break it down to neurophysiology. Because to be frankly honest nothing cuts it as straight and simple as the fact that... BOTH involve rewiring your neurons?

When you put it like that. Well science has shown time and time again that the greatest cure for Addiction... is /company/. Socialization, bonding, etc. Because as the science has shown, social interaction impacts the structure and growth of your brain FAR MORE than Addiction does. A mouse who is born and raised in a cage to be left all by itself, will have barely any neurons or connections in the brain at all. But one who is born and raised among a multitude of it's fellow mice will have a bustling brain full of neurons, synapses, and connections. All up and down the wazoo.

What is it that Shepard does the entire trilogy? He meets new people, he interacts with them, he gets involved with their lives and he bonds with them. Building up all these brain connections, growing and cementing thoughts, feelings, memories, skills, identity, etc. There doesn't have to be anything special about Shepard except the fact that he's naturally iconic and draws people to him through Charm or Dominance.

Compare any average joe fighting off indoctrination, to Shepard fighting off indoctrination. The prognosis is IDENTICAL to the results seen when comparing a drug addict with no social support, and a drug addict with lots of support. The success at fending off the Indoctrination/Addiction becomes much more significant when you have all these /connections/ to other people.

In other words... Shepard isn't special. What makes him special is how the Human species has evolved. Even if life in the milky way during this cycle hasn't had much in the way of psychic levels of development. It has in a way developed it's own special ability to "connect". For brains to wire themselves to be "connected" to one another, in a different way. Which acts as a barrier to direct, forced, connection... such as that seen with Indoctrination and other similar abilities.

Well it's not an EMP, it just functions like one to mass effect drives.  It's theoretically possible for it to be a focused beam weapon rather than an area effect like an explosion.  The beam could be off the spectrums visible to humans and could easily target the Reaper without effecting the shuttle.  Even in real life we have some prototype technology along these lines.  American military planes, especially fighters, will soon be able to use an invisible beam weapon to fry the radar of whatever it's pointed at.
Well I mostly just said EMP for a lack of a better word. But the problem with "beams" or really anything coming from a spectrum which isn't visible to us. That usually means we can't see /jack shit/. Yet in this case, we DO see a visual effect emission come from the device. Which appears and acts very much like... a wave. Not saying that technically, the wave couldn't be just be "extra emissions" separate from a hypothetical beam which is also emitted. But that doesn't really fit here because we see that the wave hitting the reaper = shut off. So it's pretty clear that the wave is what is causing the shut off.

So my initial logic still stands. Why would this wave which cancels mass effect drives, only affect the Reaper? But not Shepard's ship?

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