What did you learn about yourself?

One interesting thing is to see the end of ME3 as a test, a crucible. Shepard is being tested by the Reapers, if he is worthy to be indoctrinated (and used as a Reaper mind, indoctrinated sleeper agent, husk, goo etc.) or not.
To some extent, the player is also tested.

So, what did you learn about yourself in the Decision Chamber?

For me, it was threefold:

1. I realized that I am too realistic to actually believe in a utopia and that's why I didn't buy into Synthesis from the get-go. It was more of a gut feeling, though. But after putting some thought into my experience at my first playthrough, I think that what I mentioned before is the case.

2. Self-determinism is important to me. That is one reason why I first chose Refuse (played the game the first time in summer with EC). Again, it was more of a gut feeling that crytsallized during the game and its aftermath for me.

3. I have a tendency to be powerhungry (shame on me! - and I know it somehow contradicts to 2, but let me elaborate).
After having seen the Refuse ending, which left me unsatisfied and without any kind of closure, here I was hoping to get what I wanted by choosing one of the Crucible endings. Since the disappointment of Refuse made me believe the Kid, I thought to myself:
"If Refuse doesn't work and I am forced to choose, let's do it all the way and pick Control. No funny business anymore - no Council questioning me - no random jerk going onto my nerves."

In conclusion I learned a few things about my behaviour and about myself. I hope this knowledge is going to be useful for me one day.

What did you experience?

I metagame'd way too hard the first time because of the whole "Blue= Paragon" mentality I had.
I also have a tendency to rush through things and not give myself enough time to absorb what's going on and whether there's a deeper meaning I'm missing.

I fell for 'taking a third option is always best' and went for synthesis without properly thinking about it first.

1.I'm extremely paranoid(more reinforced than learned). I thought all three were traps, even on my first playthrough, and stood around for a solid twenty minutes waiting for something to happen. I also felt like I'd solved a riddle and shot the starbrat hoping that'd get me out of the trap, saddened me when it did nothing.
2.When forced to headcanon I inevitably come up with depressing stuff rather than happy stories. This is probably why I prefer upbeat books now that I think about it.

My realization was at least partially positive. Despite being pure paragon throughout all three games (even passing up the Renegade interrupt on Kai Leng the first time...but has since done that one a dozen times) I was not railroaded into picking Control because it was blue or Synthesis because it was the third option.

But the moment i concluded that a bit of a struggle began within my mind. Because, I did not want to kill the Geth, but Control was out of the question and Synthesis...well it sounded to good to be true.

I guess when it came down to it taught me 2 things:

1: I am no ruler or leader, at least not in real life. I cannot and most importantly will not impose my will on others. Everyone must choose for themselves.

2: I will, despite my heavy Paragon tendencies, if pushed far enough accept to sacrifice others for what I perceive as the greater good. It is not easy, it is certainly not joyful, but in the end I will pull that trigger.

1.I'm thorough in review of my current conviction to ensure it is logical and coherent? I seem to make sure I got all the bases covered ranging from ethics/morality to practicality for some reason.

That's about it I guess, anything else I already knew. However I am really curious about number 1 for you Restrider.

"1. I realized that I am too realistic to actually believe in a utopia"

This isn't inherently "realistic", the idea that a utopia is unrealistic is a product of societal bias. People tend to think things are getting worse, when ACTUALLY all of the facts show things only get better with time. Anyone who thinks like me is considered too "idealistic"... despite being the one with logic and evidence? Humanity is Bipolar as a species, in one instance we like stroking our egos and in another instance we like stroking our low-self esteem.

A Utopia will likely happen when our selfish traits dissapear. Which is practically inevitable because Technology will make greed and other selfish aspects impossible. Greedy? Why, when you have unlimited resources? Self preserving? Why, when you are immortal? Irrational? How, when everyone will be educated and happy? etc.

We expect something to go wrong because we are so used to it, but as long as we EARN it then nothing will go wrong. However I will submit that Synthesis cannot possibly create a Utopia because it allegedly achieves it instantly without any cost at all, and if you think about HOW it achieves the Utopia so quickly it really is a Dystopia.

Personally I don't disbelieve utopia in general. I do disbelieve green lines on everything will have significant positive effect on society.
(Though I'm not restrider so what do I know?)

I don't believe in a utopia, not because I don't think nearly all of our societal problems can be solved but because I don't think its possible for everyone to be happy(without some form of drugs). Happiness is mostly a chemical state of the brain, even if society has nearly no problems some people would still be unhappy. Their reasons for being unhappy would just be petty by our standards.

IronicParticle wrote:
"1. I realized that I am too realistic to actually believe in a utopia"

This isn't inherently "realistic", the idea that a utopia is unrealistic is a product of societal bias. People tend to think things are getting worse, when ACTUALLY all of the facts show things only get better with time. Anyone who thinks like me is considered too "idealistic"... despite being the one with logic and evidence? Humanity is Bipolar as a species, in one instance we like stroking our egos and in another instance we like stroking our low-self esteem.

A Utopia will likely happen when our selfish traits dissapear. Which is practically inevitable because Technology will make greed and other selfish aspects impossible. Greedy? Why, when you have unlimited resources? Self preserving? Why, when you are immortal? Irrational? How, when everyone will be educated and happy? etc.

We expect something to go wrong because we are so used to it, but as long as we EARN it then nothing will go wrong. However I will submit that Synthesis cannot possibly create a Utopia because it allegedly achieves it instantly without any cost at all, and if you think about HOW it achieves the Utopia so quickly it really is a Dystopia.

I know that the tendencies show that things are getting better. Especially considering what technologies are going to be available in the future.
However, I wouldn't call such a society a utopian.
For instance, imagine a poor kid born in London in the midth of the 19th century. If it knew about current societies, I think it would be heaven for said kid, yet, our society is not a utopia.

The whole concept irks me a bit, since I think it cannot happen without changing humanity. And if everything is perfect, humanity would lose its drive - at least that's what I believe. I'll shamelessly use Mordin to underline my reasoning here.

To add, the way this supposed utopia is presented - needing only a leap of faith - did just let all my alarm bells ring. Maybe I am not trusting anyone anymore, but I say that some things are just too good to be true - especially when proposed by a Reaper.

However, can some form of singularity be considered a utopia? Maybe, I don't know.

Wanted to play ME3 only after I beat previous two parts in 100% etc, but then I heard from my brother about that "ending". He said it's cool, Ok, and he's got no problem with that, but that Starkid pissed him off a little and he expected something more. I was like: "What Starkid? OMG? That little kid from Earth or who?" I was already furious. I hate starkids/godchilds/little kids with immense power which tell you what to do and control your fate, and I suspected that Starkid is one of those "Evil Kids" that's gonna rape you to death or something. Too many horror movies I guess...

Anyway, I was SO CURIOUS that I just had to play ME3 and see all this bullshit for myself. I created a new character, completely different from "My" Shepard, and rushed through the game. I did all main missions and sidequests that involved action. I didn't bothered with running around and talking to people, scanning planets etc, pure action. I also ignored my companions and talked to them only when it was necessary. So I made it to the end, killed a f*ckload of Banshees, noticed few VERY crazy things. That magical QEC and Sovereigns everywhere, annoying kid and slow-mo dreams and such, but I never suspected that Shepard is undergoing Indoctrination...till I returned to The Citadel. But before that I was like: "WTF? He's still alive? He jost got hit by a frakkin' Reaper Deathray of Doom and He's STILL ALIVE?!"
So I'm on the Citadel, more crazy shit happens, Anderson apparently knows how to teleport himself around, TIM is a master ninja, full stealth assassin. He's bullshiting me, Anderson is drunk etc. Then those Oily Shadows appeared around my screen and Reaper's "humming". I knew that they are trying to control Shepard, Indoctrinate him. Anyway. TIM shoots Anderson coz I didn't noticed first Renegade interrupt. I shoot him, Crucible docks, all is good, but I hated the ending already. Another magical Super-weapon, One-hit KO. Hate these...
Then that Starfucker came out. He's bullshiting me, but I believed in his words. He's The Catalysts, Reaper Overlord and such. Then he gives me choice, only ONE choice! Which was Control...
"WTF? U choose "kill the Reapers, not control, why I can't do that?" - I asked my Brother. "Dunno, lol!" - He replied. I was Maaaaaaad, but I had no other choice. I went for Control, still frakkin' mad furious angry and watched this shit. After that there was even more bullshit. I don't need to explain what was it, right? Then I watched all endings on YT. I was beyond Mad and Furious. BioWare fucked up, HARD! They ruined everything! All my efforts, choices are meaningless. "There is no story nor choice in ME3, there is only bullshit". So I abandoned ME3 for good, erased it, and went back to ME2. "This is how Mass Effect ends for me!" I thought after 10th, epic ME2 final.

Couple days later, I heard about IT. I found IT thread on BSN and started to read it. There was hope in IT, so I embraced it. Now everything makes much more sense. Still far away from being perfect, but there's still hope for good end, once and for all! Thank you IT, Thank you ITers! ;>

So I learned that no matter how bad everything might seem, there's always Hope and I shall put more faith in BioWare.
Now, that IT better to be true. If not, then I'll be Angry Mad Furious again! ;>

Restrider wrote:

IronicParticle wrote:
*snip*

I know that the tendencies show that things are getting better. Especially considering what technologies are going to be available in the future.
However, I wouldn't call such a society a utopian.
For instance, imagine a poor kid born in London in the midth of the 19th century. If it knew about current societies, I think it would be heaven for said kid, yet, our society is not a utopia.

The whole concept irks me a bit, since I think it cannot happen without changing humanity. And if everything is perfect, humanity would lose its drive - at least that's what I believe. I'll shamelessly use Mordin to underline my reasoning here.

To add, the way this supposed utopia is presented - needing only a leap of faith - did just let all my alarm bells ring. Maybe I am not trusting anyone anymore, but I say that some things are just too good to be true - especially when proposed by a Reaper.

However, can some form of singularity be considered a utopia? Maybe, I don't know.

I get what you mean with Mordin, but there is a problem within this problem itself. A perfect example is our purpose, we seek an answer to what our purpose is... and what happens when we get the answer? Does that mean we have no more motivation because our only motivation was to find the answer? No, in fact I myself have obtained my answer and I see otherwise. My answer is that we do not have a purpose, so we decide our purpose.

I use this example, because it shows what I think is the true outcome of overcoming all these limitations. That is that whenever we overcome something, it only frees us more and more.

When we overcome all limitation, then maybe we should consider what we WANT rather than what we NEED. Want to battle real life dragons bare handed, or dance on sunlight, pursuit of Experience? Why not? Want to enjoy the company of those around you for eternity, the pursuit of Bonds? Why not? Want to learn and grow infinitely, pursuit of the Mind? Why not? These are just the things we comprehend, there may very well be infinite different pursuits.

In all honesty maybe what I perceive of the future, is something different yet better than a utopia? Don't get me wrong we both agree that Synthesis feels wrong purely because it's claim of a utopia is beyond untrustworthy. Synthesis ignores consequence and acts like we should just eat it up based on faith all the while coming from the Reapers :l

IronicParticle wrote:
I get what you mean with Mordin, but there is a problem within this problem itself. A perfect example is our purpose, we seek an answer to what our purpose is... and what happens when we get the answer? Does that mean we have no more motivation because our only motivation was to find the answer? No, in fact I myself have obtained my answer and I see otherwise. My answer is that we do not have a purpose, so we decide our purpose.

I use this example, because it shows what I think is the true outcome of overcoming all these limitations. That is that whenever we overcome something, it only frees us more and more.

When we overcome all limitation, then maybe we should consider what we WANT rather than what we NEED. Want to battle real life dragons bare handed, or dance on sunlight, pursuit of Experience? Why not? Want to enjoy the company of those around you for eternity, the pursuit of Bonds? Why not? Want to learn and grow infinitely, pursuit of the Mind? Why not? These are just the things we comprehend, there may very well be infinite different pursuits.

In all honesty maybe what I perceive of the future, is something different yet better than a utopia? Don't get me wrong we both agree that Synthesis feels wrong purely because it's claim of a utopia is beyond untrustworthy. Synthesis ignores consequence and acts like we should just eat it up based on faith all the while coming from the Reapers :l

Interesting. If someone asks me about the meaning of life, I usually respond this:
"The meaning of life is to give your life a meaning."

Restrider wrote:

IronicParticle wrote:
*snip*

Interesting. If someone asks me about the meaning of life, I usually respond this:
"The meaning of life is to give your life a meaning."

Yeah that's basically the same to what I mean, I just mean there is no default purpose forced onto you. You don't even have to decide on a purpose if you don't want to, though I myself have already decided on a purpose... maybe I'll even decide on more than 1 purpose in the future, why the hell not?

IronicParticle wrote:

Restrider wrote:

IronicParticle wrote:
*snip*

Interesting. If someone asks me about the meaning of life, I usually respond this:
"The meaning of life is to give your life a meaning."

Yeah that's basically the same to what I mean, I just mean there is no default purpose forced onto you. You don't even have to decide on a purpose if you don't want to, though I myself have already decided on a purpose... maybe I'll even decide on more than 1 purpose in the future, why the hell not?

The problem is, that some people believe in Destiny, you know. They think that they have purpose from the very beginning of their lives and they can't change their destiny, their future. Everything is already there, their "job" is to "sit and watch the show".They're future is already "written in stars", and they can't change that, they can simply wait for the future to happen...

A very limited perspective but it holds some truth I think.
I believe that everyone decides of it's own future, shapes it by it's actions. But remember that you're not the only one. There are many people from the past and present that can influence your fate even when it wasn't or it isn't their intention. They shaped/shape their future too, and it's not something you can avoid.

There are some things that are forced on you when you are born, but when you reach certain age and become aware of your existence, you start to dream of your own future. Very often it takes great willpower to make such decision, to start walking your own path. That path leads to YOUR goal, as it should be. Many people lack that strength of will. They are trapped by fear and they do not believe they can achieve anything. They think that they don't deserve it, and so they simply exist, without purpose, without dreams. Like a husks, they simply live and obey their masters.

There is always a choice, another way. Everything depends on YOU!

I think I learned that playing pure paragon gets you indoctrinated, if you're not careful.

It's pretty amazing how I went for destroy on my first playthrough. I was very confused I was going to pick the "red" option, but I did.

I'll never play pure paragon again. On my last playthrough, I pretty much did a paragade/renegon playthrough.

It's like the ending suddenly made me understand the paragon/renegade dynamic like I never did before. (I guess I played too much SW RPG - sticking with one path, bleh)

Paragon is much more empathic, but also very trusting. In the case of Reapers, not good.

Paragon Shepard sounds completely indoctrinated to me now on my playthroughs. She doubts that we can win, she only worries about who we'll lose... it's completely out of character.

Renegade Shepard seems her normal self to me.

So, what did I learn about myself then?

Well, I shouldn't be so dogmatic as to always pick the paragon option, like I have OCD. I am ashamed that I did. I was basically playing stupid paragon, always trusting everyone, because the game never punished me for it. Until I came to the end. There, I went for renegade. Only later did I understand why.

I learned that I play games far too late into the night sometimes.

I learned that even while tired, my bullshit meter is fully functioning.

I learned that sometimes the hard choice is the right choice.

I learned that I'm easily riled up, and very vocal when I'm annoyed about something.

This topic is full of win! And I think if I tried to explain what I learned I would have to resort to either incoherent rambling or cheesy cliche...and I won't subject anyone to that.

I learned that while I only metagame to a degree, I tend to want the most optimistic ending.

I first chose Synthesis. It seemed off. I then looked much deeper into IT and supported it, off and on, to varying degrees.

But yeah, especially with EC, Synthesis scared the crap out of me, within a couple months post-release of the game.

So I guess I learned that I might be right in my perceptual analyiss of situations, and to not let pure positivity (aka naive positivity) blind me. That I have a lot to offer the world, if I just take some time and think.

People who picked Destroy were often either:
-Paragons that REALLY had to think about what was happening, to kind of 'push through the haze' of indoctrination
-Renegades that went 'uh, huh, screw that' and immediately *shoots tube*

I've met those who have done both. Just had convo with my boyfriend last night of what choice he would have taken (he struggled a bit, but then Destroy, as a PURE Paragon), if I never gave him little hints throughout his playthrough.

He wondered a bit and said he doesn't know. He very well might have chosen Synthesis or Control, if he was too 'in the moment'. 'In the moment', like I originally was, in picking Synthesis.

I've learned that, while I played a 90% paragon game, I am far too paranoid, and I question everything. Coming from a military background (grew up as an army brat, never joined up myself) I had to do what I went there to do. Follow my orders as it were, be a good soldier and a good example.

I realised that "I" was going to die in all three options, so I may as well pick the option that sat best with my military mentality.

Control was too ambiguous. I didn't want to control something if I was essentially no longer myself. If I lose all that I am, how can I truly exist?

Synthesis... I celebrate the idea of synthetics gaining conciousness. That is evolution. I do not celebrate the idea that there will be peace. All I could think was "stagnation".

When I got the breath scene, it suddenly hit me that I had really just been played, and managed to get through it intact. That was a boost to my resolve.

One thing that I really have learned from this is to watch what's going on in a game more closely. The themes of a game may be more important than they seem at first.

I learned that I gotta be more wary of in-game mechanics, especially at absolutely pivotal, deal-breaking moments like the ME3 finale. I've been so used to being able to take pot shots at random bystanders, lights, shopping booths etc. etc. that it didn't occur to me that taking pot shots at The Kid wopuld have any effect. Boy was I wrong. Having been so close to Refusing to choose an option, I then made my way up the ramp and, hesitating as to whether this was the right choice, opened fire on the floating a/hole to compose myself, only to be treated to "SO BE IT" and have to sit through what seemed like a 30-minute ending sequence, all the time muttering "no, no, no...", clutching thin air in regret like the eponymous hero in a Marvel comic.

I also had to break my rule of never reloading a video game to redo a given section for any reason, thus learning that I don't quite have the high integrity I imagine myself to (though I had already broken this rule in ME2, so I can't say I learned anything new here!)

I learned not to always take things at face value.
That I should really listen more to what someone is saying.
That I do sometimes have a knack for feeling when something just isn't right.
That being different is in fact a positive thing.