Cerberus is not anti-alien

Rifneno wrote:Cerberus was the Starbinger of ME2. Telling half truths and whole lies, putting on a nice face to try and win you over. But deep down... just evil.

Wasn't the porpuse of Cronos Station to show exactly what you said?

TIM recruiting only a certain type of crewmen to ensure Shepard's cooperation?
The Cerberus members we see on the Normandy in ME2 are there to make Cerberus look more friendly. And this is fact.

Selim Bradley wrote:

IronicParticle wrote:

Selim Bradley wrote:

RavenEyry wrote:More seriously, I think Cerberus isn't really pro-human or anti-alien, just pro-cerberus.

That is actually a very good way to put it. As shown throughout the trilogy, the only people Cerberus seem to care about advancing is Cerberus.

I'm still going to say that wanting to advance humans strictly really is stupid. Every species almost, is getting jiggy with it with every other species. And here at the end? They are all working together. If I see people suffering in another country and in my country, I won't treat the ones closer to me as more human. People are people.

No, I get wanted to benefit just your race. Each country here on Earth have groups that advance just their own country. But Cerberus doesn't even benefit humanity, just those who are on Cerberus' payroll.

I understand to an extent we can't just be super butt buddies... not yet anyways. But that is where Humanity will have to lead, is global co-operation to avoid extinction. Right now we have finite resources and finite ability, so I understand the hard but necessary choices.

I believe in America protecting it's people, but I don't believe that anyone should be pro-America is what I am saying. Humanity first because you can't be 100% selfless and be very good at protecting everyone else but you at the same time. But not Pro-Humanity, it's not a competition or a race... it's about the need to put ourselves first reasonably so.

Restrider wrote:

Rifneno wrote:Cerberus was the Starbinger of ME2. Telling half truths and whole lies, putting on a nice face to try and win you over. But deep down... just evil.

Wasn't the porpuse of Cronos Station to show exactly what you said?

TIM recruiting only a certain type of crewmen to ensure Shepard's cooperation?
The Cerberus members we see on the Normandy in ME2 are there to make Cerberus look more friendly. And this is fact.

Never mind how many times he said he respected Shepard's opinions to suck up... then tries to oppose Shepard's biggest choice at the end of the game by saving as much of the proto-Reaper as possible. TIM was pretty stupid to start thinking he was the perfect example of Humanity... Really TIM? You, who is widely known for atrocities is the perfect representative of Humanity. Not the guy who does the impossible and is a renowned Hero by the ENTIRE GALAXY!?

Who, exactly, is alleging that they are anti-alien?

Better yet, where's the proof for such claims?

Cerberus was many things bad -- no doubt at their worst in ME3 -- but racist is not one of them. If anything, humans were massacred far more than any other group (which is what Shepard actually calls him out for in-game).

HYR 2.1 wrote:Who, exactly, is alleging that they are anti-alien?

Better yet, where's the proof for such claims?

Cerberus was many things bad -- no doubt at their worst in ME3 -- but racist is not one of them. If anything, humans were massacred far more than any other group (which is what Shepard actually calls him out for in-game).

Well they certainly don't have a good reputation among aliens. Mordin Solus considers it strange that Cerberus would work with Aliens and the Quarians are not happy about them after an incident on the Migrant Fleet. Beyond that Cerberus conducted experiments on both Rachni and Geth.

Ultimately though I will join the sentiment that Cerberus is more pro-Cerberus than anti-alien (or pro-human for that matter) as they have repeatedly performed disgusting experiments on aliens and humans alike with seemingly the only goal being to further their own (and later the Reapers) power.

Restrider wrote:

Rifneno wrote:Cerberus was the Starbinger of ME2. Telling half truths and whole lies, putting on a nice face to try and win you over. But deep down... just evil.

Wasn't the porpuse of Cronos Station to show exactly what you said?

TIM recruiting only a certain type of crewmen to ensure Shepard's cooperation?
The Cerberus members we see on the Normandy in ME2 are there to make Cerberus look more friendly. And this is fact.

Naturally. But the existence of this thread proves some people didn't get it.

HYR 2.1 wrote:Who, exactly, is alleging that they are anti-alien?

Better yet, where's the proof for such claims?

Cerberus was many things bad -- no doubt at their worst in ME3 -- but racist is not one of them. If anything, humans were massacred far more than any other group (which is what Shepard actually calls him out for in-game).

Didn't read the novels I assume? Even Miranda openly admits to Shepard that too much of Cerberus is just racist assholes. You know, like Kai Leng. TIM didn't recruit Leng just because he's a skilled fighter, he recruited him because he's an incredibly racist piece of shit. There's a lot of mentions in the novels about Cerberus hating Omega because it's so full of aliens and there's so few humans. What was Cerberus treating those aliens like when they usurped Omega from Aria? They don't give us a lot of details but considering how much the people wanted to once again be dictated to by druglords and street gangs, I'd say it's a safe bet that Cerberus was douching it up pretty hardcore. Probably doing stuff like making poisons tailored to turians? Oh, and how about what they did to the Migrant Fleet? They ambushed a quarian scouting vessel and killed everyone except the pilot, who they brutally tortured until he gave them the code to get safely into the Migrant Fleet - then they brutally tortured him some more. Using said code, they infiltrated the Migrant Fleet and tried to blow up the Idenna, a cruiser with about 700 people aboard. Oh and hey, remember that time Cerberus fought tooth and nail to keep the genophage from being cured? Must've just hated the krogan in general since they also tried to bomb Tuchanka from orbit and even dug up and tried to detonate an ancient bomb that, from the way they spoke of it, was probably in the gigaton range.

Oh yeah, there's nothing racist about Cerberus at all!

Or the time where Cerberus labelled a break through in Medigel for Hanar as "failure".

Rifneno wrote:

Didn't read the novels I assume? Even Miranda openly admits to Shepard that too much of Cerberus is just racist assholes. You know, like Kai Leng. TIM didn't recruit Leng just because he's a skilled fighter, he recruited him because he's an incredibly racist piece of shit. There's a lot of mentions in the novels about Cerberus hating Omega because it's so full of aliens and there's so few humans.

Didn't read them, but I know of the stories. They're not racist for having racist members, though. The Tea Party in the US is the same way: they're a conservative group, so they attract all conservatives, and extreme conservatives tend to be racist. The Tea Party as a group and their doctrine is not racist, however.

Maya Brooks left them because they weren't extreme enough. I know, she also suspected TIM was indoctrinated, but I think carrying out her unapologetically-xenophobic agenda was the bigger reason.

Probably doing stuff like making poisons tailored to turians?

Which they were using to carry out a high-profile ('Hierarchy General) assassination, something Cerberus has been known to do, even against humans.

Oh, and how about what they did to the Migrant Fleet? They ambushed a quarian scouting vessel and killed everyone except the pilot, who they brutally tortured until he gave them the code to get safely into the Migrant Fleet - then they brutally tortured him some more. Using said code, they infiltrated the Migrant Fleet and tried to blow up the Idenna, a cruiser with about 700 people aboard.

They'd have done this to anyone. They had an objective -- capture Gillian Grayson (human) -- and they pursued it through ruthless means. That it was quarians they killed/tortured is purely incidental.

This is the same shit that goes down in Grissom Academy, especially if the player lets the timer run out and they succeed -- they killed some, captured some, tortured some. All humans.

Oh and hey, remember that time Cerberus fought tooth and nail to keep the genophage from being cured? Must've just hated the krogan in general since they also tried to bomb Tuchanka from orbit and even dug up and tried to detonate an ancient bomb that, from the way they spoke of it, was probably in the gigaton range.

I thought about that one, in fact, some time after I made my post.

Thing is, the genophage has always been a grey area and you can hardly blame them for wanting a cure stopped (them and likely half the galaxy, for that matter).

You don't have to be racist to think that curing them is a bad idea.

Restrider wrote:Or the time where Cerberus labelled a break through in Medigel for Hanar as "failure".

Well it *is* a failure, seeing as their goal is to advance human interests, not hanar interests.

They're a pro-human group, not a charity organization.

Even if they were, it would still be a failure. Hanar are big, stupid jellyfish.

HYR 2.1 wrote:Didn't read them, but I know of the stories. They're not racist for having racist members, though. The Tea Party in the US is the same way: they're a conservative group, so they attract all conservatives, and extreme conservatives tend to be racist. The Tea Party as a group and their doctrine is not racist, however.

Disagreed. On both counts, BTW. Fuck the Tea Party.

Which they were using to carry out a high-profile ('Hierarchy General) assassination, something Cerberus has been known to do, even against humans.

And they couldn't have just shot him or used a regular lethal toxin? No. They had plans for widespread use. There's no other reason to have it tailored to turians.

They'd have done this to anyone. They had an objective -- capture Gillian Grayson (human) -- and they pursued it through ruthless means. That it was quarians they killed/tortured is purely incidental.

Wrong. They were planning the attack before Gillian even left the academy. That she wound up there was a happy coincidence for them. The wheels were already well in motion before the events with Gillian took place.

I thought about that one, in fact, some time after I made my post.

Thing is, the genophage has always been a grey area and you can hardly blame them for wanting a cure stopped (them and likely half the galaxy, for that matter).

You don't have to be racist to think that curing them is a bad idea.

Because going nuclear on the krogan in the Kelphic Valley AFTER the genophage is cured will re-infect them or something?

Restrider wrote:Or the time where Cerberus labelled a break through in Medigel for Hanar as "failure".

That's a great one indeed.

Rifneno wrote:

HYR 2.1 wrote:Didn't read them, but I know of the stories. They're not racist for having racist members, though. The Tea Party in the US is the same way: they're a conservative group, so they attract all conservatives, and extreme conservatives tend to be racist. The Tea Party as a group and their doctrine is not racist, however.

Disagreed. On both counts, BTW. Fuck the Tea Party.

Then I am probably wasting my time.

Cue in .

A group, any group (racial, social, political...) is to be judged on their merits, otherwise your judgment is based off prejudice and becomes stereotyping. It's the same folly of... actual racists.

Terra Firma is racist. CAT-6 is (probably) racist. Cerberus is not racist; they screw everyone equally.

(... for the record, I'm not a Tea Party supporter, don't want anyone thinking I am).

And they couldn't have just shot him or used a regular lethal toxin? No. They had plans for widespread use. There's no other reason to have it tailored to turians.

'Not like you can just walk up to a VIP and shoot them. In a war where nowhere is safe, security everywhere is tight. If the general has security worth a damn, everything from guns and known poisons will be cracked down on.

Something unique can be slipped by security numerous times before anyone catches on (at which point, the damage will have largely been done). The Hierarchy doesn't lack for targets, either, so it doesn't have to be a one-time thing. Just as the Reapers target high-ranking officials, Cerberus appears to be targeting the brass of the galaxy's strongest military.

And when they anticipate controlling the Reaper armada, hatching a mass-poisoning scheme against the turians is kind of a waste of time.

Wrong. They were planning the attack before Gillian even left the academy. That she wound up there was a happy coincidence for them. The wheels were already well in motion before the events with Gillian took place.

Cerberus doesn't act without a plan.

Ya can't sell me that TIM was planning an attack on the Idenna for no other reason than "hey ya'll let's go out and brutalize some dirty suit rats!" If they planned to be there, it was for some reason of human interest, and making your group an enemy to an entire species -- the only known one that recognizes their common enemy -- is not that.

Because going nuclear on the krogan in the Kelphic Valley AFTER the genophage is cured will re-infect them or something?

There are a host of reasons I could see them wanting that bomb set off, even post-cure. In all likelihood, though, it's probably a gameplay-mechanics issue (do before Priority: Tuchanka to make most sense).

HYR 2.1 wrote: Cerberus doesn't act without a plan.

Ya can't sell me that TIM was planning an attack on the Idenna for no other reason than "hey ya'll let's go out and brutalize some dirty suit rats!" If they planned to be there, it was for some reason of human interest, and making your group an enemy to an entire species -- the only known one that recognizes their common enemy -- is not that.

When we get to the point where the guy who hasn't even read the book is playing on the "I can pretend the facts don't exist because I haven't bothered to look at them and no one can tell me to" card, it's time to walk away. So I'm walking away.

Between the wikia and my sources (read: friends who've read the book) I know more than enough about the novels, believe me.

The fact you're electing to walk away rather than provide direct quotes says it all.

Of course, I'd still have to read it myself to believe it -- I don't trust people that aren't me -- but you'd at least make yourself seem a lot more compelling to the "onlookers." On a logical level, your claim simply does not make sense.

By the way, I just heard back from my "source" on the book. Apparently TIM's interest in the quarians was setting up some sort of spy-system on their ship so he could gather intel on them... which is what he does to pretty much everyone, anyway.

Figures.

RED Spy also gathers intel with the best of 'em. Case in point.

hukbum wrote:

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I hear Cerberus is pro-Reapers

Nah, they're not. They're just a misinterpreted charity organistation

Yes my son now continue drinking your indoctrination kool-aid.

Cerberus is kinda like the space Tea Party.

You got it all wrong, guys! Cerberus is pro-humanity, because...

"Strength for Cerberus is strength for every human! Cerberus IS Humanity"

What's wrong with that? Sure, they're bunch of racists, they love makin' dangerous and horrific experiments, and they even got Indoctrinated and altered into the new Collectors. Hell, they even have Avernus Station in Galactic Core!

They play dirty, yeah. So what? They have good intensions, right? They want to make the galaxy a better place for human race, right? Everything is justified then, let them continue they're glorious work!!!

"We evolve or we die!" Cerberus is future!
<sarcasm off> I guess you got my point, hmh? ;>