Re: (XL) Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark IV!

by **DoomsdayDevice** Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:58 pm

The worst thing is, we might be speculating about this forever, if Bioware go the lazy route of not addressing the endings in any way in the next game.

by Rifneno Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:10 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:The worst thing is, we might be speculating about this forever, if Bioware go the lazy route of not addressing the endings in any way in the next game.

Worst. Case. Scenario.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:19 pm

I dunno, would that be a worst case scenario? Or the scenario where they confirm the endings were intended literally?

Meh. I still have hope.

by Rifneno Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:16 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:I dunno, would that be a worst case scenario? Or the scenario where they confirm the endings were intended literally?

Meh. I still have hope.

Must we go over this every 5 pages? There's too much evidence and too much of it is very clear. They never intended it literally.

by smash016 Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:27 pm

Then there's perpetual ambiguity. There are writers who absolutely love it.

In other words, lots of speculation forever and ever.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:54 pm

Rifneno wrote:
DoomsdayDevice wrote:I dunno, would that be a worst case scenario? Or the scenario where they confirm the endings were intended literally?

Meh. I still have hope.
Must we go over this every 5 pages? There's too much evidence and too much of it is very clear. They never intended it literally.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's likely at all. Just that it would be even worse. It's not like I doubt IT. I doubt Bioware, in the sense that it probably was intended, but that they might be too cowardly to do anything with it. It would be monumentally stupid though.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:59 pm

smash016 wrote:Then there's perpetual ambiguity. There are writers who absolutely love it.

In other words, lots of speculation forever and ever.

Yeah, that was my initial interpretation of the ending. I thought it was meant to be indoctrination, but open ended.

It's the amount of foreshadowing in ME3 about the return of Shepard that changed my mind. Then again, I may just be imagining things. Although on the other hand it's bizarre how much of ME3 dialogue has this foreshadowing dual-layered quality, while so very little dialogue in the first two games does.

Like I said, I still have hope.

by dorktainian Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:08 pm

It's simple cause and effect imo. You choose destroy and Shepard wakes up. Anything else and Shepard either dies (control and synthesis) or watches while all his friends die pointless deaths (refuse).

You are playing as shepard therefore surely the aim is to survive?

Watch those around you die and get added to that tribute on the normandy to the fallen until finally it's shepards turn. Does he go on the wall, or does he survive?

Take a Breath. Beat the game.

by ElSuperGecko Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:01 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:
Rifneno wrote:
DoomsdayDevice wrote:I dunno, would that be a worst case scenario? Or the scenario where they confirm the endings were intended literally?

Meh. I still have hope.
Must we go over this every 5 pages? There's too much evidence and too much of it is very clear. They never intended it literally.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's likely at all. Just that it would be even worse. It's not like I doubt IT. I doubt Bioware, in the sense that it probably was intended, but that they might be too cowardly to do anything with it. It would be monumentally stupid though.

There's zero chance that Bioware intended the endings to be taken literally. Absolute zero. Look at the shipped endings - pretty much everything left open to interpretation, with just a palette swap (and some goofy green circuitry) to tell the difference.

Everything people needed to form an opinion or interpretation of the endings was already in the game, delivered through the dialogue,often in a quite heavy handed manner. Unfortunately, after playing through the trilogy (or in some cases, just the third game of the trilogy), a lot of people weren't in the moodfor interpretation or figuring things out for themselves - they wanted to be handed all the answers on a plate. Outcome: nerdrage.

To quell the nerdrage, Bioware released the unintended and (in my opinion) entirely unnecessary Extended Cut. Whch really didn't tell us anything new or anything we couldn't figure out for ourselves.

Honestly, the only way Bioware could have made their attentions any clearer would be to switch to first person view during the various character interactions during the game and have the NPC's bitchslap Shepard as they delivered their dialogue.

by smash016 Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:05 pm

I think everyone agrees. I sure do. Especially regarding the EC. Such a half-assed attempt to quell the controversy. Half-assed because they had to work within the framework of their master plan, obviously. Same for Leviathan DLC. I suspect it's basically a sneak preview of what is to come. A tiny bit of answers, because they realized they'd been a little too coy with the original ME3.

But that still leaves the possibility they will not follow up on it. Because they like the ambiguity to stay in place. Or because EA will force BW to abandon their ambitious storytelling for more accessible stuff that will appease the masses.

Hudson left, what will that do to the future of the series?

So, my point is the possibilities are currently still legion, we have to be patient for now imo.

by dorktainian Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:14 pm

oh joy
what does N7 mean to you?

by **DoomsdayDevice** Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:16 pm

Have we considered Hudson may have left because of differing opinions about what to do with the franchise?

Pointless speculation, I know. There have been no rumours along that line AFAIK.

It doesn't seem to be a good sign though.

by ZerebusPrime Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:20 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Have we considered Hudson may have left because of differing opinions about what to do with the franchise?

Yes.

by DSharrah Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:21 pm

dorktainian wrote:oh joy
what does N7 mean to you?

How many times do we need to tell them that it means Shepard finishing the job - really trying not to get my hopes up about the next game in general, but I would be estatic to see some "ME Next" news on N7 Day.

by Ithurael Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:26 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Have we considered Hudson may have left because of differing opinions about what to do with the franchise?

Personally...I always thought it was because of that survey Bioware released. Maybe the fan feedback was a bit too much for him to take. I mean his name is almost reviled and praised in the ME community.

That is just my speculation though...

by TurianRebel212 Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:58 pm

Hudson left because EA didn't want to pay him as much as Patrick Bach at DICE makes. It's all about the money. Always. And I think he realizes his best work is well behind him. And so does BioWare. I actually would like to see somebody brand new head the next game, but sadly Gamble and Scrub Walters are at the center of "Not Mass Effect 4". So you can expect ME3 quality.

by Rifneno Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:02 pm

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Have we considered Hudson may have left because of differing opinions about what to do with the franchise?

Have we considered that he may have left so he can see more specialists worldwide when no Canadian doctor could identify or treat that weird growth on his balls?

Because that's what I like to think happened.

by TurianRebel212 Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:09 pm

Hudson left because the integrity and artisticness of BioWare wasn't up to his standards.

*man we really need some new info to speculate an get our jimmies all rustled about*

by **spotlessvoid** Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:55 pm

i worry they have no idea how to move the narrative forward and that they'll leave it ambiguous forever, not because they want to so much as they have no clue where to take things next.

by **DoomsdayDevice** Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:01 am

Was it Mac or Casey who made that infamous scribble about lots of speculations?

(which reminds me of that genius meme lex0r made, hehe)

by Hanako Ikezawa Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:53 am

Rifneno wrote:
Hanako Ikezawa wrote:Especially since unlike the Geth the Earth, while sentimentally precious to humans due to being our homeworld, is not a living thing. And the sentimental part can be explained away the same way Legion does about Rannoch and the Quarians

Well it's not so much the planet itself as the people on it. The Reapers killed millions, but there's still billions alive.

The thing that bugged me about that scene was how fast the Reapers fell to the ground. Those are two kilometers tall and they go from standing to completely on the ground within a few seconds. So let's be generous and say it took three seconds, since that is long the Youtube videos have them in the scene they fall and the soldiers cheer. That completely goes against our laws of physics which after running calculations says that the Reapers should have taken slightly over 20 seconds to fall to the ground.

Oh my god. I've never even considered that. Or heard anyone else mention it. Bravo.

Ah, okay. I thought we just talking about Earth itself. Though it would take days at least for the eezo and hulls to make it the surface so supposedly the galactic forces could evacuate the populous before that happens. They wouldn't be able to save everyone, but every person counts.

And I am glad I was able to contribute something new. Joyful

by Hanako Ikezawa Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:59 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Was it Mac or Casey who made that infamous scribble about lots of speculations?

(which reminds me of that genius meme lex0r made, hehe)

Mac Walters if I recall correctly.

by Terramine Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:54 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:Spot is right. If you can't like yourself, it doesn't matter how much others tell you that they like you, because you'll have no basis to believe them. The insecurity will stay. It's like pouring water in a bottomless cup.

You're right, and I have just taken it out on you guys here. My bad. I'll stop with the personal shit.

Rifneno wrote:
DoomsdayDevice wrote:Have we considered Hudson may have left because of differing opinions about what to do with the franchise?

Have we considered that he may have left so he can see more specialists worldwide when no Canadian doctor could identify or treat that weird growth on his balls?

Because that's what I like to think happened.

This is golden.

dorktainian wrote:oh joy
what does N7 mean to you?

*picture of normandy*
What does N7 mean to you? I mean, what was your main intake of N7 throughout 90% of all 3 games? Totes not shurpurd lololol

by Terramine Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:56 am

DoomsdayDevice wrote:The worst thing is, we might be speculating about this forever, if Bioware go the lazy route of not addressing the endings in any way in the next game.

Worst case scenario, but on the flip side even if ME4 is the big reveal and resolution... well I still will be pondering about the specifics of indoctrination and what is going on for a long time anyways.

by ZerebusPrime Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:19 am

What does N7 mean to me?

Less than the term "Spectre".

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